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The Front Office of a Back Office is a Back Office
 

kbgzp's picture
(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 2:46pm
office-space.jpg

Hey guys,

The question I want to ask is whether audit at a Big 4 is actually considered FO in the exit opportunity sense and not just by pure definition. I actually worked for audit over the summer and definitely felt that it was more BO than FO. By definition, FO is client facing and revenue generating, both of which audit checks. But by exit opportunities, I didn't really get the feeling that you could network into banking other than the already bottle-necked CF/Advisory to IBD route.

So the question is, I got an internal audit MO (interaction with FO and senior management) offer at a bank and the FO audit offer at Big 4, which will more likely let me exit to the real FO at a bank?

During the 2 months at audit, I did face clients, It was actually a BBIB so that wasn't too bad. But the team dealt only with BO Finance people and at best Risk Management. You probably need to be a manager or above to interact with the CFO or COO and that's not really that helpful anyway!

Thank you in advance!

Tags:
Flake's picture

No one gives a fuck. It's

ER
(Neanderthal, 3,599
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 12:47am

No one gives a fuck. It's about what you actually do. Juggle these FO/BO/MO titles all you want.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

trailmix8's picture

Flake wrote: No one gives a

AM
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 1:07am
Flake:

No one gives a fuck. It's about what you actually do. Juggle these FO/BO/MO titles all you want.

would have to agree with Flake here. I think you are confusing yourself with all the titles. If you want IBD, you should probably think about what type of experience is relevant for what you are trying to get to. Wherever you will apply to probably won't care what "O" you were in or think you were in, its more based on the experience and its relevancy to what you are applying to.

kbgzp's picture

trailmix8 wrote: Flake

(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 1:12am
trailmix8:
Flake:

No one gives a fuck. It's about what you actually do. Juggle these FO/BO/MO titles all you want.

would have to agree with Flake here. I think you are confusing yourself with all the titles. If you want IBD, you should probably think about what type of experience is relevant for what you are trying to get to. Wherever you will apply to probably won't care what "O" you were in or think you were in, its more based on the experience and its relevancy to what you are applying to.

Thanks Flake and trailmix8,

I don't care too much about the titles as well, but more so on the interaction and networking opportunities to move into AM or ER. I guess I really wanted your opinion on whether you think disregarding the titles, the internal audit job is better in meeting the FO colleagues and management to network into their department or whether I am just in over my head.

Cheers!

probinganalyst's picture

you are in over your head.

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 2:47am

you are in over your head.

Whiskey5's picture

I am a firm believer that

IB
(Gorilla, 705
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 2:50am

I am a firm believer that with STRONG motivation, ability, and network, you can break into banking. It will be an uphill battle, but definitely doable.

But your reason to move to IB better "because banking pays more."

That is all.

Anacott_CEO's picture

If individuals can work hard

CF
(King Kong, 1,259
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 7:35am

If individuals can work hard to go from operations and support type roles into FO IBD roles, then you should have no problems going from audit. It happens a lot actually, just work your ass off.

Flake's picture

Anacott_CEO wrote: If

ER
(Neanderthal, 3,599
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 9:29am
Anacott_CEO:

If individuals can work hard to go from operations and support type roles into FO IBD roles, then you should have no problems going from audit. It happens a lot actually, just work your ass off.

It actually doesn't happen "a lot".

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

Highway Robbery's picture

It's definitely possible.

 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 9:52am

It's definitely possible. It's just not an easy direct jump. Here do this if these are your only two options:

1) External audit (internal audit is a joke, don't even consider it) for a year.
2) Transfer within your company or to someone like HL in their Financial Advisory, Valuations, or Due Diligence teams. Stay here for a few years.
3) Try to make the switch to banking as an experience hire, or go get your MBA and break in as an associate (If your are looking for AM or ER get your CFA while you're still doing accounting work in order to get a basic finance background and show interest).

People in these "accounting roles" break in "a lot," but not as a complete lateral (for instance, 2 years of valuation works ~ 1 year experienced IB hire). Forget about the people telling you that you can't. There are a ton of boutiques and MM IBankers with that exact background.

GL.

Imperialian's picture

Audit is shitty work man.

ST
(Baboon, 173
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 10:30am

Audit is shitty work man. are these the only options u have? Its like asking is BO at trading better or BO at IB better?

kbgzp's picture

Imperialian wrote: Audit is

(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 11:51am
Imperialian:

Audit is shitty work man. are these the only options u have? Its like asking is BO at trading better or BO at IB better?

Yeah man, quite fortunate already. This is Australia, and for personal issues my grades just don't cut it to begin with. A lot of banks are cutting headcount and RBS just got sold so a bunch of reneged grads are also applying now.

So the internal audit is with an Australian IB and external audit will be working with a BBIB. I audited that BBIB over the internship, client interaction is only with Controllers and Finance guys. Really didn't like checking shit like you said.

I am considering the Big 4 offer now, It might be wise for me to transfer to property or insurance group, at least I might win the lottery to meet CF people doing vals for intangibles. As an external auditor, you are out at client all the time so networking is actually not that easy. Plus you are usually secluded from client activity so I will have to be on the ball with CF or client networking.

At internal audit, the AD said there are opportunities to transfer because people are here to get a feel of management. He did mention IBD and trading albeit overseas but that might be because internal auditors travel to overseas offices.

Tough choice...

Bernankey's picture

Neither is going to help you

ST
(Gorilla, 613
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 12:06pm

Neither is going to help you get relevant experience or network.

manbearpig's picture

WTF? For Accounting, audit at

CO
(Neanderthal, 3,029
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 12:10pm

WTF? For Accounting, audit at Big4 is front office. For banking/finance/consulting, audit at Big4 is nothing, because it's not banking/finance/consulting. Whether or not you can use audit to get into banking/consulting is irrelevant when you're trying to classify BO vs FO (not that the classification is important in the first place). By your logic, medicine is BO because you can't use it to get into banking.

-MBP

Ultima-RDK's picture

Highway Robbery wrote: 1)

CD
(Orangutan, 305
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 2:24pm
Highway Robbery:

1) External audit (internal audit is a joke, don't even consider it) for a year.

Not sure if I agree with this. Personally, I have never done internal audit so I am talking from 3rd person experience, but depending on the firm and role, internal audit can straddle between/work with some other groups like corp strat/dev, internal consultancy. Think about CAS at GE for example, or CAS at any F500 (pretty sure most major oil companies have CAS groups).

Sometimes lies are more dependable than the truth.

Rey Kong's picture

First, stop obsessing with

IB
(Monkey, 51
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 3:06pm

First, stop obsessing with the generic titles of BO/MO/FO. More often than not, they mean nothing related to your specific experience. All you need to care about is what you will get out in terms of knowledge and expertise in 2-3 year and how you could sell it to someone doing what you want to do. That being said, I know more people moving into IB from the big four than from IA. Just my experience.

adapt or die's picture

manbearpig wrote: By your

(King Kong, 1,233
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 3:33pm
manbearpig:

By your logic, medicine is BO because you can't use it to get into banking.

Yeah I agree. Caring professions ---> total back office / non-alpha

Flake's picture

Rey Kong wrote: First, stop

ER
(Neanderthal, 3,599
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 3:33pm

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

Stuckey's picture

I started at Big4 audit and

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 4:01pm
pacman007's picture

FO - MO = BO FO = BO + MO MO

(Gorilla, 668
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 4:33pm

"Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a Champion" - Muhammad Ali

manbearpig's picture

pacman007 wrote: FO - MO =

CO
(Neanderthal, 3,029
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 4:40pm

-MBP

gammaovertheta's picture

probinganalyst wrote: you are

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 4:46pm
gammaovertheta's picture

probinganalyst wrote: you are

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 4:46pm
Azimut's picture

If you want to work in

(Monkey, 58
 
Points)
 on 4/13/12 at 9:33pm
MarketStructureX's picture

Reiterating what was said

O
(Chimp, 3
 
Points)
 on 4/14/12 at 3:19pm
Highway Robbery's picture

I will reiterate. Internal

 
Points)
 on 4/14/12 at 7:22pm
jack callahan's picture

kbgzp wrote: So the question

AM
(Baboon, 106
 
Points)
 on 4/14/12 at 11:22pm
Ace6904's picture

gammaovertheta

CF
(Baboon, 159
 
Points)
 on 4/15/12 at 1:16pm
Human's picture

Flake wrote: Rey Kong

PE
(King Kong, 1,891
 
Points)
 on 4/15/12 at 5:47pm

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

spankmymonkey's picture

Either way breaking into

IB
(Chimp, 1
 
Points)
 on 4/15/12 at 9:01pm
probinganalyst's picture

Human: Flake: Rey

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/19/12 at 8:44am
manbearpig's picture

probinganalyst: Human: Flak

CO
(Neanderthal, 3,029
 
Points)
 on 4/19/12 at 10:45am

-MBP

probinganalyst's picture

manbearpig: probinganalyst:

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/19/12 at 1:08pm
Ultima-RDK's picture

manbearpig: probinganalyst:

CD
(Orangutan, 305
 
Points)
 on 4/19/12 at 1:17pm

Sometimes lies are more dependable than the truth.

manbearpig's picture

probinganalyst: manbearpig:

CO
(Neanderthal, 3,029
 
Points)
 on 4/19/12 at 9:25pm

-MBP

manbearpig's picture

Ultima-RDK: manbearpig: pro

CO
(Neanderthal, 3,029
 
Points)
 on 4/19/12 at 9:33pm

-MBP

yhp2009's picture

There are obvious shades of

 
Points)
 on 4/20/12 at 1:15am
probinganalyst's picture

manbearpig: probinganalyst:

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/20/12 at 5:32am
yhp2009's picture

Good grief. monkey feces

 
Points)
 on 4/20/12 at 10:44am
manbearpig's picture

probinganalyst: manbearpig:

CO
(Neanderthal, 3,029
 
Points)
 on 4/20/12 at 10:46am

-MBP

yhp2009's picture

2+2 people have been

 
Points)
 on 4/20/12 at 11:01am
NikitaN's picture

As far as I heard, you have a

O
(Baboon, 167
 
Points)
 on 4/21/12 at 12:22am

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