Top IBD or MBB Consulting?

Junior at a non-target, have received offers for both SA IBD (GS/MS/JPM) and also MBB Consulting SA. What path is better in terms of exit opps, b-school admissions, and just life in general?

 
nkhanlegend:

I will say that it is easier to go from IBD to MBB, and more difficult the other way around.

It often puzzles me why this comment is perpetuated so much.

Total MBB associate NYC start class = ~100 Total bulge + elite boutique start class = 1000+

Turnover in banking within first 2 years much much higher, and thus many more vacancies. True - it might be that less people make the switch - but this seems more like a demand driven thing if anything. In fact, among the top bulges, you wouldn't expect to see much switching intra-firm either. Most lateral hires are from tier 2 or tier 3 banks and this has very little to do with how easy it is to switch.

 

Congrats. Here are a few ways to think about your decision.

What will you learn from each profession?

Banking: "Hard Skills" - financial modeling and analysis. Positions you well to allocate capital in the future but lacks the breadth/universal applicability of consulting

Consulting: "Soft Skills" - Structured thinking, problem solving, effective management. Positions you well to succeed in almost every industry but lacks the depth of banking (and, therefore, the ability to transition easily into PE, HFs, etc)

Who do you want to work with?

When I was interviewing for IB, MBB, and AM roles I quickly learned that I preferred the people in consulting. Did you feel more comfortable in some interviews than others? You'll be working long hours in both jobs, make sure it's with people you like

What gives you the most flexibility?

Banking may have an edge here given that it's a summer internship. Consulting opens up a broader range of opportunities in the long run.

 

Would you rather be a part (albeit insignificant part) of a major event in a companys history, or build books that no one will read for minor issues containing answers that management already knew.

"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."
 
CountryUnderdog:

Would you rather be a part (albeit insignificant part) of a major event in a companys history, or build books that no one will read for minor issues containing answers that management already knew.

I sense a bit of a bias with this one....

OP, First off congrats, thats fantastic you have offers from such reputable firms, especially seeing as you're a non-targ. Personally, I would do banking, seeing as it is much easier to move from IB to consulting (which has been mentioned.) But that being said, choose the internship that you will enjoy the most. In terms of bschool, both options will set you up for the same opportunities, so don't worry about that. In terms of exit ops to PE, HF, etc. IB would be the better route to take, but keep in mind this is for an SA. Take whichever internship interests you the most at the moment, and if the time comes next fall and you decide you want to pursue the other option, you should have no problem going that route. Exit ops should not really be in the consideration at this point, focus on which internship is most interesting to you and go that route.

Best of luck.

"My name's Ralph Cox, and I'm from where ever's not gonna get me hit"
 

I actually heard of a few McKinsey people who have made it into HF/PE as well. Based on your experience, what sort of roles do they land?

From what I have read here, it seems the PE roles are more operations-focused and consultants tend to focus on PE funds like Bain Capital which have historically hired consultants. What about HF?

 
Best Response

Wallstreetoasis skews heavily towards finance so take people's comments here with a serious grain of salt. Ask your peers what they think. Post-financial crisis the candidates with cross offers from top schools are disproportionately choosing consulting (MBB).

I did two internships at top BBs and chose MBB out of school. This is a well-traveled path for many of my peers who had cross offers had GS, JPM etc.

You gain a broader skill-set (client management, problem solving, non-financial business knowledge) and develop a great toolkit (includes excel modeling and powerpoint) as well as have a significantly better life than your banking peers. Hours are far superior as is independence and ownership of work. Money is good, but obviously not at banking level (though perks and expense account are incredible)

You will work on a range of projects - some will be less momentous such as operational improvements that don't make it up to the CEO while others will be high-profile projects (strategy, financial work etc) that go exclusively to a CEO, CFO, Board of directors or head of strategy. Guess what, you will also be in many of these meetings unlike the analyst at goldman.

The argument that IBD -- > to MBB is easier is flawed as well. IN both cases you will need an MBA to transfer and banks take more people than consulting on average so the logic there is questionable. More importantly though, who wants to do banking later in their career ?

Last comment, consulting offers exit opportunities into every field which is best in class. Exit opps into finance are not as good as top-tier bbs, but everything else is better. Beyond that, plenty of people who are interested make it to PE so that is not an issue either if you want to go that route.

In short, unless you are deeply passionate about finance and 100% committed to a field in the industry, hard to justify BB over MBB in my view

Hope that helps...tried to be a little objective here but you hear a lot of nonsense on wallstreet oasis when it comes to this debate

 

I would choose MBB out of college rather than IBD, if I had the chance to choose between the two. With MBB consulting, you can get sponsored to attend a top MBA program after a couple of years, after which you have the offer to come back. If for some reason you want to do banking later, you can use the MBA OCR to get banking.

I heard getting MBB out of MBA is a lot harder than getting banking... I think most MBA people would confirm that it's way harder to go from banking -> MBA -> MBB than the other way around.

 

No. That's absolutely not true.

As someone who got my MBA from a top 10 school, I would disagree. People with IBD experience had similar shots, if not better odds to get MBB offer. Not only did their experience helped (interview, benefit of doubt), but also IBD analysts generally are smart and driven, and understand that kind of business.

MBB to IBD is generally harder but a lot of people self-select, so the numbers might not be very comparable. At my school, 90% of the students applied for MBB (and probably 50% got interviews, for 15% of total receiving offers). For IBD probably only 25% apply, with 8% offers.

 
freroht:

No. That's absolutely not true.

As someone who got my MBA from a top 10 school, I would disagree. People with IBD experience had similar shots, if not better odds to get MBB offer. Not only did their experience helped (interview, benefit of doubt), but also IBD analysts generally are smart and driven, and understand that kind of business.

MBB to IBD is generally harder but a lot of people self-select, so the numbers might not be very comparable. At my school, 90% of the students applied for MBB (and probably 50% got interviews, for 15% of total receiving offers). For IBD probably only 25% apply, with 8% offers.

You literally listed no statistics to back up your opening statement "MBB to IBD is generally harder". Your personal experience might tell you that IBD to MBB is easier than other experience to MBB, but it says nothing about the converse.

Then again, the majority of MBB consultants get admitted to the top 3 MBA programs, and the vast majority into MBA business schools ">M7, so I'd be very surprised if you had any post-ugrad MBB consultants in your "Top 10" program at all. So I have no clue what your basis for comparison is...

 
freroht:

No. That's absolutely not true.

As someone who got my MBA from a top 10 school, I would disagree. People with IBD experience had similar shots, if not better odds to get MBB offer. Not only did their experience helped (interview, benefit of doubt), but also IBD analysts generally are smart and driven, and understand that kind of business.

MBB to IBD is generally harder but a lot of people self-select, so the numbers might not be very comparable. At my school, 90% of the students applied for MBB (and probably 50% got interviews, for 15% of total receiving offers). For IBD probably only 25% apply, with 8% offers.

This is horrifically inaccurate, literally one of the worst posts I've ever seen in here.

At Kellogg last year, 88% of people who applied for IBD got offers. For MBB, the number was around 30%.

The only people who didn't get IB offers this year were internationals with communication difficulties, the conversion rate for domestic students was 100%. There's even talk of a few of the middle market firms circling back from more interviews, since they couldn't fill up their classes (The average student would get 3 or 4 offers, so some of the worser firms had no one accept their offers). The people who got GS/JP/MS for the most part didn't even have any prior finance experience (they were bright though).

I know several people who did IB - > PE who didn't get any MBB offers. The one or two MBB people who applied for banking (very rare, mostly just wanted to do it for the summer to see what it's like, and planning to go back to MBB afterwards for all time) all got top firms with minimum prep.

MBB is harder than IB, and it isn't even close.

 

If your ultimate goal is PE, BCG or Bain will give you a much better shot than Jefferies. However, it will be differet work and an entirely different lifestyle. I reckon the difference in value between B/B and Jefferies is significant enough to warrant B/B winning out even if you have an inclination to do banking.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

I chose M/B/B over IBD (well, M&A Advisory, at a top firm) for similar reasons when deciding on internships last year.

At that time, it looked like the $ was significantly different (as well as greater PE exit opps), but I didn't care. I knew the IBD people, culture, and lifestyle would have made me miserable.

 

60 hour weeks? Many training programs? Great people?

First off - if you are an actual BA at McK, you are working 60 hours a week - sure. But you are also traveling another 5-10 hours. Keep in mind that between Monday morning and Thursday night/Friday morning, you are on site. That means the only time you even spend in your home city is between Thurs night/Friday morning and Sunday night/Monday morning. I don't consider that sweet. This is marginally better than IBD, and certainly shitter than other BB front office roles.

Training at MBB is extremely oriented towards on-the-job work. You'll learn a ton of stuff. But the training programs at BB's are much more structured. Either way, you learn most of the stuff while working, not training.

Also, the people at MBB are nicer but don't party as hard, but you'll see a fair share of huge tools on both fields (especially now that more kids are choosing MBB).

Anyways, the main issue with MBB is that the majority of their offers are for smaller regional cities, which would suck to live in 1-2 years.

However, Mck> BB for Biz School, which should be strongly considered by any 2nd/3rd year in this market.

 

I think Big Unit is pretty on-point with this response.

Ultimate, you have to consider the job itself. With respect to the superficial differences - work hours, pay, exit opportunities - those vary somewhat but won't be determining factors in this type of economy.

Whether you take MBB or IBD, you're committing yourself to at least 2 years in fundamentally distinct jobs with fundamentally different responsibilities.

I can't speak for everyone, but the idea of spending 70+ hours in front of spreadsheets frankly drives me crazy. And while you'll have periods like that in MBB, it won't dominate your analyst years.

Alternatively, some people can't handle the fast pace, continual learning, and monotonous travel that is part and parcel of management consulting life.

Finally, and this is really the key question - what do you want to do 5-10 years from now? Think about which path will best prepare you for that job, and you'll have a much clearer idea of which choice is better.

Kevin Gao www.managementconsulted.com

 

not to put down consulting, but i'd argue against all three points.

1) bonuses this year will be bad, but at my firm, all-in pay will still be better than "marginal"

2) i wouldnt exactly say that exit opps to PE are "slightly" worse. sure, there are pe firms that will interview and hire consultants. but the majority do not - they know what they want in an associate and know where to look to get them. if you have m&a transaction experience, you're highly favored over someone who does not

3) i have a few friends in consulting who thought their lifestyle would be fun and "sustainable". unfortunately, it has not been. traveling from idaho every week really takes a toll on you. i'd rather spend 80 hrs in an office 10 min from my apt than 60 hrs in some weird town, plus all the hours in the air and at the dreaded airport

 

I worked first in investment banking and then consulting. I made the transition because of my long-term goals.

If you work in IBD, the opportunities within finance are unparalleled.

If you would like to work in a business field but not necessarily finance, consulting is the way to go. MBB also has great exit opportunities to PE firms (Bain Capital is full of ex-Bain ACs. McKinsey places people in a range of prestigious PE firms, where ex-bankers also have worked. BCG as well, though in my experience less so than the previous two).

ChasingConsultants http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot.com/

 
timatom90:
Bain is essentially the only consulting firm that can claim decent placement in to PE directly.

On an absolute numbers basis, sure. But that doesn't take into account that the percentage of MBB analysts that want PE is significantly lower than the number of IBD analysts. To do a fair comparison we'd need to also look at how many want PE, then I bet the numbers would be about even for Bain and McKinsey, maybe not for BCG.

 

I'm actually curious to learn about these two. Im currently deliberating between Big 4 consulting or IB at a Regional MM bank. Not sure what will open more doors, im not sure if I want to do PE. As of right now, I just want something that will help me get into a top MBA so that I have options. Any thoughts as to what path would be best?

Hugo
 

Okay , so what does a consultant do when he moves into PE or HF ? I mean in which case his/her skills can be useful for the industry ?

And how would you rank M&A , Leveraged Finance and consulting in terms of exit opps (in PE for instance) ?

Out of subject but about consulting , according to a famous website about consulting , I noticed that lifestyle isn't so bad in consulting , you work on average 12hr/day , we're far from the 100hr/week you usually do in banking. Am I wrong ?

 
Takanome:
Okay , so what does a consultant do when he moves into PE or HF ? I mean in which case his/her skills can be useful for the industry ?

And how would you rank M&A , Leveraged Finance and consulting in terms of exit opps (in PE for instance) ?

Out of subject but about consulting , according to a famous website about consulting , I noticed that lifestyle isn't so bad in consulting , you work on average 12hr/day , we're far from the 100hr/week you usually do in banking. Am I wrong ?

A ex-consultant in PE/HF does the exact same work that an ex-banker would do (assuming at the same firm). Maybe a little more consulting type work with the PE shops that are hands on with managing the operations of their portfolio companies.

M&A and LevFin > Consulting for PE exit opps. The skillset you gain is just more applicable, and it has nothing to do with who's "smarter".

If you're looking into consulting and banking, then the last thing you should be worried about is who works less.

 

that's fine shades of meaning you're asking about there. How do you prioritize 'good' exit ops? Consulting will prepare you better to be a corporate executive, and you'll make more connections in the business world faster (because of greater exposure to clients even as a junior employee). IB will better prepare you for the varying jobs in finance, including highly lucrative positions in things like HF, PE, VC, LBOs, etc.

Both get you into top business schools at remarkable rates.

You'll have to clarify here.

 

By Exit Opps I meant, which can you lead you to better positions at the exec level.

Like you said, after IB, the only possible options that are open for you are those of finance. (I wonder what you can do if you are fired from a Corp. Fin. IB). Compared to consulting, like you put it, chcnaces are better for making it to the top level exec. (and not just CFO).

Hope that helps.

Here's a simple question:

"What are the chances you'll ever end up being a CEO of a big corporation in the industry of your docues if you are in Strategic/Management Consulting? Chances.... if you are in IB?"

 

McKinsey regularly places its staff as executives in client corporations. Quality consultants who give good advice to management and demonstrate a keen business mind are regularly offered jobs. Beyond the big 4 it might be more rare, but it happens.

That's during a consulting career. After it, you are rather well-prepared for:

1) Knowing all about strategic sourcing and cost reduction at literally any place 2) Knowing how to manage politics at a large corporation, since you've had to skirt them as a consultant 3) Implementing shared services for a company that just had some acquisitions 4) Making business decisions in the face of uncertainty or ambiguity 5) Your network of other executives in the field will be good because you've worked with so many.

You're almost as well-qualified as the guy who worked his way up the chain of command. You might not become the CEO of Exxon-Mobil, but there will be opportunities if you are good at what you do.

Now, on the other side of the coin, I wouldn't say that iB has "only finance positions" available after an analystship. IB analysts regularly go to B-school and branch out thereafter, and I'm sure many companies would be eager to hire an experienced banker - you know their work ethic and knowledge of business is pretty solid.

But I would argue that, proportional to the size of the industry, Consulting does much better at its alums becoming executives.

-D

 

That really helps.

I know that IB's also have good exit opportunities.

Seems like most people woudl choose IB over consulting though because the work hours are the same but the pay at banks is a lot more.

 

I wouldn't say twice the pay - probably half again the pay. But no way is consulting twice the work. I go home at about 6:30 on average every day, and have worked one weekend in 4 months. Even people on a client site for an insurance company, say, go home around 10 (via car service, with dinner paid for, to a 4-star hotel...). I definitely do less work than my analyst friends at MS.

edit: although, people less efficient than I am go home a lot later. And it varies firm-to-firm. BCG is very good about hours, whereas Booz Allen is more of a sweatshop. But I don't know a single person who wishes they had gone into IB.

 
opticalcharge:
The CEO of my client is from Bain. Smart guy, but i fucking hate his style. Everything is about powerpoint and i swear, he's the best user, over 45 yrs old, who uses powerpoint.

AGREE! Consultants get so obsessed with powerpoint slide packs, it all about aligning the shapes, color, look good. considering they charge 2.5K per day, what do you give?

 

IB all the way. I think consulting is a great gateway to biz schools (if you're pre-MBA) or corporate life, but if you want to stay in finance, there's nothing like IB. IB is almost prerequisite to most PE/VC jobs, and also opens doors to so many other areas (hedge funds, etc.) Also much better pay in IB, less traveling, than consulting...

... but I have seen more hot girls in consulting. :) Great place to meet smart girls.

 

It would say it ultimately depends on what you want to do. For example, if you aim to run business (either your own or someone else's), IBD and Strategy Consulting can be very helpful in providing broad yet deep exposure.

 
Bill Cambridge:
Surely there must be a PV calc of this decision floating around...

How does a successful iBanker compare to a successful consultant after 5 years? 10 years?

Considering the fact that consultants have time to go to the gym and still have a full head of hair and the potential opportunity to jump to funds (although not as easy).

 

I have read some employee profiles on some BB's website about a girl working in consulting for a few years and shifting to IB after biz school and I also heard stories about doing IB for summer internships and start full time with a consultancy. Does anyone here who has done both?

 

Agree. IB has better exit opportunities. But I doubt anyone would enjoy consulting and IB equally. In IB you'll work a lot more hrs than the 15 additional hrs you mentioned.

 

i think the most impt thing to think about right now is what you'd want to do some years down the line...when you're not in the top tier of consulting or banking firms, either of them can lead to different exit opps, but not necessarily the same ones. you are also mistaken if you think you are only going to be working 10-15 hours more doing banking vs consulting (as if 10-15 hours is anything to sneeze about anyway)

in addition, i know you "ballparked" the relative rank of the two offers you got, but the quality of the firm does matter and even among second or third tier shops, there is a range. feel free to post it here or pm me if you want to share. btw, i work at a bulge bracket bank but had once considered consulting, and i also have quite a few friends in the industry. that's how i've gotten my info.

anyway, i'll be honest with you...best bet to get good feedback on things is to talk to alums from your school. you're asking a very legit question here, but you also have to realize most people here have never worked in finance or consulting. just be careful who you take advice from here.

good luck

​* http://www.linkedin.com/in/numicareerconsulting
 

I went to ucla so based upon my knowledge of who recruits at the school i'd guess you have an offer from Deloitte consulting, mercer, Accenture or something along those lines (I could be wrong) and on the banking side you have something like Jefferies, HLHZ, Piper Jaffray. if you want to end up in finance you should go for the banking job, that is if you willing to sacrifice lifestyle. consulting is only worth if it you get into true management consulting, most other firms, like the ones above mostly focus on IT and outsourcing, which wont have any long term benefits for finance. Again if its not a true management consulting firm, ie bain, then I'd go with the banking job but only if finance is what you really want to do; ultimately pick which ever feels right to you.

 

I hate Deloitte Consulting, but the reality is that their 2-year BA program places very strongly into top b-schools.

Just as an example, HBS doesn't have a single banker from Piper Jaffray..and this includes both classes (about 1800 people). PJC is generally considered "decent"

Not every MM is equal. If he's talking about say...a shop like Harris Williams which has solid placement into mid-market PE, then the choice is obvious. Don't oversimply complex decisions which could impact this dudes life.

 

Thanks for the responses Hand_Paulson... I was just wondering though... why is Deloitte so bad if it places well into HBS?

Also, I was always under the impression Accenture was pretty well respected... quite a few people from my school go there every year. Do you know anything about what it takes to get into not M/B/B but still highly respected consultancies? I have a 3.3/3.4ish gpa at a top 20 school... double majoring in electrical engineering and economics. I know I probably don't have a shot at M/B/B... but what about the others? And also, how about middle market banks?

 
wannabebanker1352:
Thanks for the responses Hand_Paulson... I was just wondering though... why is Deloitte so bad if it places well into HBS?

Also, I was always under the impression Accenture was pretty well respected... quite a few people from my school go there every year. Do you know anything about what it takes to get into not M/B/B but still highly respected consultancies? I have a 3.3/3.4ish gpa at a top 20 school... double majoring in electrical engineering and economics. I know I probably don't have a shot at M/B/B... but what about the others? And also, how about middle market banks?

Accenture is not well respected...their strategy group is weak as well.

3.3/3.4 is probably even too low for Deloitte consulting. i'd focus on networking with alumni, you have an OK shot at the MM

 

FWIW I've worked at one of the consulting firms mentioned above. I think that a choice between a top IB and a top MC is a very hard one. However at the mid- to lower- tier where I was, you may get a decent name on your resume, but the skills and exit ops aren't nearly as appealing as a MM. Take it from me as i've been interviewing against MM bankers and it's not going so well. If consulting is your dream, i'd still go MM and get an MBA and then move to a M/B/B

 

How likely is it to lateral to a bb after a year? I think the main thing that kept me out of the running this year was my lack of ibanking (or anything investment related) focus. To tell the truth, I was pretty set on going into law until the end of my Junior year, and therefore have few relevant ecs/we.

 
manny07:
How likely is it to lateral to a bb after a year? I think the main thing that kept me out of the running this year was my lack of ibanking (or anything investment related) focus. To tell the truth, I was pretty set on going into law until the end of my Junior year, and therefore have few relevant ecs/we.

depends on the shop. you already have a MM offer?

 

Hey manny, I'm a fellow Bruin and just signed on for a full time position in IB. I'll be starting this summer after graduation.

Feel free to send me a PM if you want to talk offline in more detail - I'd be more than willing to help you out.

 

dont mean to hijack this thread, but was wondering something about consulting, which i dont know much about. so pardon my ignorance.

why are Accenture and Deloitte not as good in terms of strategy consulting and exit opps? is their strategy that bad? i thought they get pretty good clients and they seemed Ok. believe it or not, the 2 year IB stint is becoming less popular at my UG school, and an increasing number of ppl are opting for consulting and buyside opportunities where the hours are better. as i recall, a good number of people from my year are working at Deloitte and Accenture.

is it because Deloitte is sullied by Deloitte & touche and b/c Deloitte and Accenture are so big?

also, a lot of people i know have recently gone into litigation consulting.. i know its completely different from strategy, but anyone know what the exit opps for this field are?

 

litigation consulting is bullshit.

Deloitte Consutling's BA program provides good placement into b-school. The work isn't that exciting and a lot of the projects are bullshit. Personally, I think DC is a crock of shit but you can't deny that they have a good analyst program.

Accenture is trash unless you want to be doing SAP implementations.

 

Hank... you sound like a idiot. That litigation consulting comment was stupid of you to make. If you don't understand litigation consulting, don't comment about it, period.

I'll tell you something... a close friend is an ex IB from BOA and he's doing extremely well for himself in litigation consulting. (I'll presume you'll just chime in and say "Why would an IB lateral into litigation consulting?", or "Oh, BOA sucks too") He just wrapped up a forensic valuation project on a well publicized multi-million dollar bankruptcy case and trust me, the forensic valuation skills involved were quite sophisticated. Moreover, his team had to tear apart the valuation analysis done on an M&A transaction by a major BB bank (that YOU would aspire to work for) and they found significant issues in the analysis used by the bank.

You have no idea what you're talking about. IB may be lucrative and everyone wants it bad. However, not everyone can break into IB and other companies and career paths are available and worthy to be considered. You shouldn't be so f'n condescending.

Bottom line is that most of your commentary is meaningless. You appear to know a little about a lot, but mostly you're just endowed with the gift of gab. So far my take on you is that you are not very intelligent. Honestly, I'm simply not impressed with you at all. (I expect someone of your caliber to reply "well who are you bitch?")

As I suspect my comments will not sit well with you, feel free to extend whatever wit and venom you wish unto me. Go for it. Knock yourself out.

 
aadpepsi:
Hank... you sound like a idiot. That litigation consulting comment was stupid of you to make. If you don't understand litigation consulting, don't comment about it, period.

I'll tell you something... a close friend is an ex IB from BOA and he's doing extremely well for himself in litigation consulting. (I'll presume you'll just chime in and say "Why would an IB lateral into litigation consulting?", or "Oh, BOA sucks too") He just wrapped up a forensic valuation project on a well publicized multi-million dollar bankruptcy case and trust me, the forensic valuation skills involved were quite sophisticated. Moreover, his team had to tear apart the valuation analysis done on an M&A transaction by a major BB bank (that YOU would aspire to work for) and they found significant issues in the analysis used by the bank.

You have no idea what you're talking about. IB may be lucrative and everyone wants it bad. However, not everyone can break into IB and other companies and career paths are available and worthy to be considered. You shouldn't be so f'n condescending.

Bottom line is that most of your commentary is meaningless. You appear to know a little about a lot, but mostly you're just endowed with the gift of gab. So far my take on you is that you are not very intelligent. Honestly, I'm simply not impressed with you at all. (I expect someone of your caliber to reply "well who are you bitch?")

As I suspect my comments will not sit well with you, feel free to extend whatever wit and venom you wish unto me. Go for it. Knock yourself out.

Look dude, this is an investment banking message board. Most of us here either work in the industry or aspire to work in the industry....and we recognize other industries which recruit the same types of people. One of these industries happens to be top strategy consulting firms.

Litigation consulting will NOT put you on a path to wall st. It will NOT put you on a path to a top b-school. What is the relevance of your post on an investment banking message board? What is the relevance of litigation consulting to any of us here? 0

PS- I'm flattered by your comments

 

The relevance of my post is that while this forum has a focus on investment banking, the reality is that many of the UG's who browse the forum are exloring their options and looking for guidance and we shouldn't be sending out erroneous messages that NOT getting into IB is tragic when other career paths are worthwhile.

Litigation consulting CAN get you to Wall St. and it very well CAN get you to a top B-School. Honestly, don't speak of what you don't know!

BTW, I'm not a dude.

 
aadpepsi:
The relevance of my post is that while this forum has a focus on investment banking, the reality is that many of the UG's who browse the forum are exloring their options and looking for guidance and we shouldn't be sending out erroneous messages that NOT getting into IB is tragic when other career paths are worthwhile.

Litigation consulting CAN get you to Wall St. and it very well CAN get you to a top B-School. Honestly, don't speak of what you don't know!

BTW, I'm not a dude.

So can working at a Zoo. Your logic makes no sense.

PS- Is it that time of the month?

 

So you realize I'm a woman and you go right for the "jugular", i.e. "Is it that time of the month?"

My final point on this thread is this... folks in investment banking by far believe that they "do the most interesting work." C'mon that's not true.

I'm at least forthright enough to acknowledge that interesting work can be found in other careers and I'm not about to blindly bash firms or career paths because I want to impose my over enlarged ego on others.

BTW, working at a zoo would be more fulfilling than working with an animal like you whose basic instinct is spit out BS.

(My apologies to everyone that you have to scroll thru this crap.)

 
aadpepsi:
So you realize I'm a woman and you go right for the "jugular", i.e. "Is it that time of the month?"

My final point on this thread is this... folks in investment banking by far believe that they "do the most interesting work." C'mon that's not true.

I'm at least forthright enough to acknowledge that interesting work can be found in other careers and I'm not about to blindly bash firms or career paths because I want to impose my over enlarged ego on others.

BTW, working at a zoo would be more fulfilling than working with an animal like you whose basic instinct is spit out BS.

(My apologies to everyone that you have to scroll thru this crap.)

It sounds like you really dislike bankers. News flash: There are normal, humble, hard working people working in banking too...honestly, some good guys/gals.

Don't get me wrong, litigation consulting will be great for some folks..but it is misleading to suggest that it will lead to banking, b-school, or the buy side.

As a side note, I don't appreciate your rude comments and personal attacks. You might want to think about how they reflect on you in the future. Best of luck.

 

Right. Thanks, I'll do just that, reflect that is.

News flash: BTW, I AM a banker.

Your chameleon ability to change your opinion is highly entertaining:

"litigation consulting is bullshit." to "Don't get me wrong, litigation consulting will be great for some folks"

Best of luck to YOU.

 
aadpepsi:
Right. Thanks, I'll do just that, reflect that is.

News flash: BTW, I AM a banker.

Your chameleon ability to change your opinion is highly entertaining:

"litigation consulting is bullshit." to "Don't get me wrong, litigation consulting will be great for some folks"

Best of luck to YOU.

The statements are not mutually exlusive. Litigation consulting is bullshit. If you like bullshit work, it will be as I put it "Great for some folks."

 

man everyone on this board is so shallow its not even funny anymore.

You make it sound that if someone doesn't get into IB or Managment Consulting that they suck at life. Get off your high horse. Some people have different priorities in life.

For you litigation consulting may be bullshit, for others it might be a fun job.


Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

 

Not to bump up a really old thread or be a litigation consulting troll, but wanted to correct some misinformation for anyone who (like me) might be searching the archives for information. Litigation consulting at the top few players (NERA, CRA, Cornerstone, LECG) places extraordinarily well into top MBA programs. I know that analysts at the first three I mentioned regularly go on to HSW. I can't compare to BB or MM IBD since I don't really know too much about placement rates.

You probably don't see many ex-lit consultants at b-schools, since they mostly opt for econ/law/public policy type programs. Hank Paulson was right, obviously, about buy-side options being limited, but I can guarantee that nobody will ever doubt your "quant" skills after working at one of those.

 

What's litigation consulting? Do you advise companies that are suing each other or something? How do they place into law schools? (obviously I realize law school's mainly a numbers game, but I'm sure they still consider other factors....) I assume they get paid like other types of consultants...?

Sorry for hijacking the thread...

"We are lawyers! We sue people! Occasionally, we get aggressive and garnish wages, but WE DO NOT ABDUCT!" -Boston Legal-

"We are lawyers! We sue people! Occasionally, we get aggressive and garnish wages, but WE DO NOT ABDUCT!" -Boston Legal-

holymonkey -

Litigation consultants do economic analysis for lawsuits and regulatory issues. They calculate damages, determine if securities fraud occurred, determine if there are antitrust concerns, etc. Pay is pretty good - 65 + 7-8 +7-8. The leaders in this industry are NERA, CRAI, Cornerstone, and LECG, but strength is actually highly dependent on practice group and geography.

It's only good for law schools at the margins. If you have a 3.5/165 + lit consulting, you're not getting into Harvard. But if you have a 3.9/175, it can mean the difference between Harvard and Yale.

 

I have no interest in Yale...Yale's for academics. Right now, my top choice law school's Harvard or Columbia, take your pick. I wouldn't mind UPenn law school though.

But litigation consulting sounds REALLY fun. Do you actually get to go watch lawyers try cases?

"We are lawyers! We sue people! Occasionally, we get aggressive and garnish wages, but WE DO NOT ABDUCT!" -Boston Legal-

"We are lawyers! We sue people! Occasionally, we get aggressive and garnish wages, but WE DO NOT ABDUCT!" -Boston Legal-
 

No, not really. The most you'd get to d is help prepare an expert witness for testimony. You do get to depose witnesses on occasion, which can be really interesting.

I'm actually about to choose NERA over a couple of pretty prestigious strat firms (BAH /Monitor) - mostly because I intend to go to law school and feel like this can really help me, since I am at those margins.

It's very interesting work, but you should be prepared for a lot of data work and statistical programming. If you're a junior, get a summer internship with one of those firms to test it out. If you don't like it, you still become highly recruitable since strategy firms (&everyone else) will think you're very quantitative and good at problem solving. (Do be warned though, even most consultants dont know what lit consulting is - you'll have to explain it even to people from McKinsey.)

Feel free to ask away if you have any questions.

 

The CEO would more likely be a consultant - even though this is probably pretty rare since most CEO's are insiders or were hired away from other companies.

The CFO, however, is far more likely to be an ex-banker, rather than a consultant.

 

choose one:

Mary is quiet, studious, and very concerned with social issues. While an undergraduate at Berkeley, she majored in English Literature and Environmental Studies. Given this information, indicate which of the following three cases is most probable: A. Mary is a librarian B. Mary is a librarian and a member of the Sierra Club C. Mary works in the banking industry

 
Jimbo:
choose one:

Mary is quiet, studious, and very concerned with social issues. While an undergraduate at Berkeley, she majored in English Literature and Environmental Studies. Given this information, indicate which of the following three cases is most probable: A. Mary is a librarian B. Mary is a librarian and a member of the Sierra Club C. Mary works in the banking industry

Lemme guess, was the correct answer C.

 

This question is a no-brainer. 10 times out of 10 the c-level position would be filled by the consultant. Bankers become bankers to be bankers, or at least stay in the financial realm. Consultants gain a much deeper understanding of the industry served, because they look at it through a variety of different lenses. Bankers tend to see the industry through the crystal ball that is MS Excel.

 
jkh:
This question is a no-brainer. 10 times out of 10 the c-level position would be filled by the consultant. Bankers become bankers to be bankers, or at least stay in the financial realm. Consultants gain a much deeper understanding of the industry served, because they look at it through a variety of different lenses. Bankers tend to see the industry through the crystal ball that is MS Excel.

See thats the kind of answer I'm looking for. According to some, IB'ers get a better understanding of the business and the industry because they deal with the financial statements all the time, whereas consultants only work on some of the projects, and thus, they might be good with certain aspects of the business.

I disagree with that however, as I think consultants approach the problem very differently from IBers (i.e. they go really in depth) and not using Financial Statements ONLY.

 

there are plenty of ex-banker CEOs. You can differentiate by taking a Corp Dev role or more industry focused role post analyst or post B-School.

Generally people that go into consulting are more inclined to go the C-level executive path however.

 

However, I was given a counter argument that a CEO is more like the liasion between the firm and the Wall Street (i.e. Equity Researchers, Shareholders, Media, etc.), and that job can be done better by an IBer as oppose to a consultant.

However, I still think (THINK) that the path in which you learn every aspect of the business inside out is CONSULTING as oppose to IBanking.

 

The only path you learn every aspect of a business inside out is working within a company. A junior banking or junior consulting role (esp when coupled with b-school) will generally allow you to jump in at a higher level than where you would be if you were to take an entry level position out of undergrad.

Being a CEO is about leadership, running a business, motivating people, consensus building, managing a BoD, decision-making, resolving political disputes, etc. None of these are skill sets developed in a services industry.

This is not to say that consultants and bankers don't become CEOs, but it's rare. And when it happens, it's a special individual plus special circumstances (and even then it's generally following a stint in an operational role with P&L responsibility)

The quickest path to CEO, by the way, is to start your own company.

 

However, I guess, we can conclude that people who get to learn the real busines are consultants

or I should say that consultants get to learn more about the business than investment bankers.

 

Disney is much more likely to hire their McKinsey consultant than they are to hire Gene Sykes as CEO. And Disney is unlikely to hire their McKinsey consultant.

My opinion is that consultants are very, very smart people who work in a much more cerebral industry than I do. The work they do somewhat resembles doing case studies for a living, which is an academic challenge I do find very appealing. I believe they are better equipped than I am to be a CEO.

I am, however, a banker. I chose to do this because I don't want to spend my days thinking through elegant theoretical solutions to complex problems. I execute deals, and that appeals to me a lot more than doing case studies.

 
leveragedselloutistheshit:
i would be willing to bet 75% of those who interviewed at banks and M/B/B are M/B/B rejects, with the exception of GS/MS

From what I've seen at the undergrad/analyst level, Bain and BCG are far easier to get into than a bulge bracket. I don't know if the same holds for the associate level.

 

I think at ugrad level, M/B/B are much tougher to get because they hire fewer people than BBs that have 100-120 analysts. At associate level, I'd say it's opposite. Most BBs have 60-70 or so associates starting each year, where as big 3 consulting firms I know have much larger classes than that

 

I don't think so. I think consulting is always harder to get in. Think about it. IB's need someone who can work like a bitch day in and day out. Thus, your grades might get you the interview call if nothing else.

Compared to consulting firms, they are looking for smart people and grades is just one of the things that mgiht tell them something about you....

 

If you have a strong summer group/bank you can easily get into B/M/M. I know of two people in my group who didn't get offers back but signed with BCG and McKinsey respectively.

B/B/M is probably harder to get into than the average bank most likely, but if you are looking at an elite banking job B/M/M will come calling. Also, outside of NY or SF B/B/M are far easier to get into if you are at a regional. ie. I find (could be wrong) that if you are in like Texas at UT, it's easier to get into B/B/M than a top NY bank.

 

i debated this topic in my head for a while. I had to choose between BB IB and M/B/B, and in the end decided to go with IB. Not because i neccesarily want to be a 'banker' i just thought it was the right decision at the time. i start this summer. Does anyone know how many people switch from BB to MBB in first few months...? if i dont like banking i might consider hopping over to consulting...

livin large in miami
 
Green_Bananas:

Someone else was going to say it so I figured I'd do it first.

SEARCH FUNCTION

Oh please. People like you are a dime a dozen on this forum. Can't you just try to be helpful?

Anyway! Consulting vs. banking: it really depends on what's most important to you. If it's cash monet, then perhaps banking is the way to go. As you probably know the hours in the first couple years can be brutal. On the other hand, consulting has much better hours, and much more interesting work (this is an opinion). Promotion is also easier in consulting firms.

That said, even if you want to go into consulting, it's not a bad idea to do banking first, because banking gives you go good exit opportunities. I'd honestly recommend consulting, as you're more likely to do fulfilling work, and you still make a good salary. I don't know what you mean by chances of getting into business, though.

And yes, in the future, use the search function!

I'm not concerned with the very poor -Mitt Romney
 

When I had to decide between consulting and finance, I chose finance because my school has way more people in finance than in consulting = more opportunities for networking in finance than in consulting.

"I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature."
 

i remember a consulting recruiter once said alot of people at targets perfer consulting over ib b/c it is "more intellectually challenging" going to companies and trying to figure out solutions to various problems. Just paraphrasing what that guy said.

Imo you probablly have to understand the operations of a business more for consulting, ib is focused on the financial side of companies. I'm sure there are plenty of people who perfer case studies over modeling.

 

in today's job market, most MBA students prefer consulting since they'll probably last longer than in IB. i remember at my school, IB wasn't focused as much as consulting, so most people thought consulting was the better thing to go into.

 

I think also being in Belgium its a different perspective to the US.

I work in scandinavia, and it certainly is different. The top companie sthat finance grads try to break in here are not investment banks, I should add though there aren't really any big ibanks here, but into big fortune 500 type companies. In a survey done here they top financial services firm was a big 4 that only came in at about 8 I think.

So its a different view on things.

Probably a bit less money focused on money than in the US and more on leading a life outside of work as well I'd say in Europe.

Big 4 Accounting Guide to Getting Hired Contains interview questions, exactly how to answer, resume guide, how to make an impact and a guide to the firms and service lines.
 

A lot of top students in the 'smaller' European countries indeed are more focused on getting into consulting. My guess is that this is largely influenced by the presence of at least one MBB office in those countries, whereas almost no top IB would have an influential office there. MBBs therefore really try to focus their recruiting on a lot of different universities in this specific country, with pretty large incoming analyst classes. Top IBs do not really tend to come over to the continent much for recruiting activities. When they do, they only come to top target schools (can't really think of any in Belgium). Next to this, a lot of continental europeans i've met in London did their studies at LSE/Oxbridge/etc, where IB is definitely a very sought after profession.

Only a very small group per European country breaks into ibanking in London/NYC, where most of the people also considered/got offers from MBB in their home country, but preferred ibanking over this.

 

I'm forgetful monkey.

Options are everywhere seems it started right after your graduation and your career begin. Obviously the choice between consulting and IB is not the only one at the moment and in the foreseeable future. What is the meaningful is going back to the drivers of the question itself? why you are choosing and why should you choose? what is thing attracting you and why you felt hard to make a choice? For the answer, like Steve Jobs in his famous speech, you can only connect the dots backwards. So from that point of view, consulting or IB as a starting point doesn't make any big difference at the beginning.

I'm forgetful monkey.
 
shorttheworld:
i think if you MAY have one in both then youd be able to tell. i dont think anyone gets the offer without knowing wtf the difference is

thnx for the comment.... i guess i have a clue besides long working hours in excel modeling, pitch books & bonuses. I was trying to get / find some relation between them... If i gotta re formulate the question I may ask:

Considering your experience, what would u prefer and why??

 

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Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?
 

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Beatae sit eligendi molestiae. Tenetur voluptatem tempore error voluptatum facere non. Exercitationem saepe voluptatem eos debitis et.

 

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