Tom Brady Goat?
With the Pats wining their 5th and Tom Brady playing a pivotal role in a historic comeback, I wanted to see what you guys think about Brady being the greatest of all time. Personally, I think he is, albeit controversial, because of how he's done it with a lack of high draft picks on offense. Additionally, I also love how Tom Brady persevered through being a backup at Michigan, low draft pick, and not seeing the field early in his in NFL career. Also, he has a pretty sick resume found here
thoughts BillBelichick37?
Yes, this should not be a debate anymore
He's been the best. Looking at my phone, at 9:09pm EST, I texted: "Yeah Falcons was my pick. Brady is good in the clutch tho." Still can't believe it. I need to watch it again to make sure it just happened.
Pains me, as a Niners fan, but yes. He has eclipsed Montana.
Was going to say the same thing. Maybe if Roger Craig hadn't fumbled against the NYG in 89/90 we'd still have an argument.
No offense but it was getting old hearing about how people thought joe was better than everyone solely on the basis of him winning 4 superbowls. His stats aren't the greatest even given the era he played in.
Your comment is very off-base. Today's NFL is MUCH more passer friendly. Bump and run was legal and you basically had to tackle the guy for pass interference to be called,
Heres some stats to show how different the game is today vs. when Montana played.
In 2016 the NFL had 1.43 pass interference penalties per game vs. only 0.93 in 1994, Montana's last year.
This year we had 13 QB's throw for over 4,000 yards vs. 3 in 1994, and one in 1979, Montana's rookie year. In fact more guys hit 4k this year than guys that hit 3k in 1979.
It is a completely different game and you can't make a like for like statistical comparison. You need to compare a person based on how well they dominated an era. I am not trying to disprove your agrument, but I don't like how you basically discredit greats such as Bart Starr and Jim Brown because they don't have as high of stats as players today. It's like comparing basketball players today to those who played before the 3 pt line on a statistical basis, it just doesn't make sense.
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[Roger That](
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illuminati confirmed
Absolutely he is. He closed the debate in my mind when he won in 2015 but today was the nail in the coffin for people who didn't already like the Patriots. The controversy that surrounds him has very little to do with his actual actions and is more to do with the Media's portrayal and the fact that people hate dynasty teams. Deflategate was a load of BS and he had to serve the suspension due to getting screwed by our legal system.
11 AFC Championship Game Appearances
7 Superbowl Appearances
5 Super bowl Wins (4 MVPs)
183-53 Regular Season record, Peyton is 186-79, Joe is 117-47
Average TD:Int per season: 31:10 (Peyton is 32.5 TDs but 15ints)
Highest Winning percentage at 78% and most all-time combined wins for Playoffs and Regular season
14 AFC East Titles in 15 playing seasons
12 Pro-bowls
2 time 1st team all-pro, 2 time 2nd team all-pro
Every Meaningful Postseason and Superbowl Record (YDs, TDs, was amazing in 4th qtr of last 2 superbowls) He and Joe are the only players to win multiple regular season and superbowl mvps
2 Regular season MVPs but has been a top 2 or 3 player seemingly every year since 2002 when he led the league in touchdowns. In my opinion he should have won one or 2 more but the voters and fans absolutely despise him.
25-9 Playoff Record that is more than 28 of the 32 teams in history. 2nd place Joe Montana is 16-7, eleven less games played.
Only player to comeback from 10+ points in the 4th quarter of the superbowl and only to come back in history of playoffs from a 19+ point deficit. (I think fox said teams were 93-0 when leading by that many).
I could very easily bash Joe Montana's lack of longevity compared to Brady but he was an awesome player in the 80s and 90s. People who shit on Brady losing to Eli while putting Joe so high fail to realize that Joe has also lost playoff games and has been beaten badly. Brady has 75 more wins and has records that won't ever be broken. He also didn't have HOF WRs besides Moss for 2 seasons. In this salary-cap era I highly doubt anyone will go to 5 superbowls in the future because it is so very hard to be competitive when rising stars on rookie contracts go to new teams. I know a lot of people like Aaron Rodgers too but when you look at his stats vs Brady's from 09-current they are actually almost identical (Brady missed 2008 due to ACL). If Peyton had some more titles I would likely have him at 2 all-time but for now it's 1. Brady, 2. Montana, and 3. Manning.
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This. The debate is over...watching the haters squirm to try and find reasons not to say he is the GOAT is now getting funny. The crazy thing? I think he may have at least one more SB ring before he's all done.
I think what people don't realize is this part makes it the most impressive:
No doubt about it. What makes it all the more impressive is that he's done this with one team. The salary-cap is designed to prevent people from having more than 2-3 straight years of division titles (virtually impossible without a good QB). Think about how shit out of luck Peyton would've been if Indy would've kept him instead of Andrew Luck. This was so important for him since he and Elway were able to assemble an all-pro WR and TE corps. Meanwhile Brady has been a beast with a basket of deplorables for WRs and a half-injured Gronk. Peyton ended up beating the hell out of what the colts did after him. Curious to see what happens to Romo and Brees this offseason.
To say that someone is even going to win 3 or 4 superbowls is a stretch. Eli and Big Ben are almost done and everyone else has at most 1. As far as talent, I think Derek Carr could be the next big star but we all know how poorly managed Oakland has been for the last 10+ years. Hoping he joins a juggernaut after his contract is over. I wish Jimmy Garrapolo would've come to NE 2 or 3 years later. Will be an interesting free-agency season with Pats having a mountain of cash in their salary cap and Jimmy G is going to worth at least a first round pick.
Plus don't forget the salary cap implications --- but all of those years BB and Kraft trading picks every NFL draft paid off
I'm a heterosexual male and I would have sex with Tom Brady. The guy is a god.
This says all you need to know about the man.
Lonely Tom
Tom Brady is the best of our generation, hands down. I heard a good argument on the radio today for bart starr (7 championships, highest postseason passer rating), also mentioned was otto graham (10 straight championships, won 7, started playing right after ww2 then was dragged out of retirement to win the browns another title), but I think anyone trying to discredit Brady is a shmuck.
I bring this up because it's not apples to apples. ty cobb didn't play against the same people that pete rose did just like barry bonds didn't play in the same era as babe ruth. the shotclock and 3 point shot weren't always in basketball, so I think the comparisons between the kobe/shaq/MJ era and wilt and prior eras aren't intellectually honest. I don't think it's fair to try and compare greats of different eras, so I don't think you can ever say "greatest of all time," I just don't think these things are knowable, but they make for great banter.
here's what I know: Tom Brady has been the most dominant quarterback of my adult life, moreso than my boy favre, dan marino, steve young, troy aikman, peyton manning, and my beloved aaron rodgers (joe montana's niners days were a little before my time). try to discredit him because of scandal, because he has the best coach in the history of football, because he's always had a good o line, whatever. you can't deny the stats, the wins, and the rings.
No offense to the great Bart Starr but in reality most people only consider the Superbowl era. Otto Graham, Jim Brown, Starr, etc. are still icons of the game but the stats don't back it. There also wasn't near the complexity of defensive schemes or athleticism. Those guys played well before there were 6'5" 260-270 pounders who could run a 4.5-4.6 40 yd dash. IMO Brady is a Mount Rushmore player of all-time along Brown, LT, and Rice.
Bill Belichick is by far the goat GM/Coach.
"most people only consider the Superbowl era." no argument there, my only point is that I take issue that people do that. those men were the best of their time, just like Brady is the best of his time. would today's linemen be that big and that fast without modern strength & conditioning programs, or were people just slower back then? not taking anything away from Brady, I just don't think as a principle these things are knowable.
also, just as a matter of consistency, one of the guys on your mount rushmore never played in a super bowl ;)
Not even a fucking question.
Tom Brady was the greatest QB of all-time regardless of the outcome of Sunday's game but that win just makes it a no doubter.
Any rational person would agree with you but the people who believe everything they hear on tv (95% of NE haters) would've called Brady a choke artist who couldn't win without "cheating".
I like watching him win because, it gets under the skin of so many.
Yeah people that hate them are just nincompoops.
He was arguably the GOAT two weeks ago. Last Sunday ended that argument.
is this a rhetorical question?
The only reason this is even a question is because a lot of assholes get paid a ton of money to argue and defend the indefensible on television for ratings.
The amazing thing about Brady are his receivers.
There is no Julio Jones or Marvin Harrison or Jerry Rice.
Brady has amendola and Edelman.
Lol At Max Kellerman's first take on TB12 saying he will fall off a cliff and Skip Bayless saying the Falcons won the SB at the half
I think Max is someone who won't ever admit when he's wrong. What brady has done over 30 is unprecedented.
Bayless did that to jinx the Falcons. He's done this multiple times. In my opinion Undisputed is better than First Take. I think Will Cain is awesome when they put him on though.
skip bayless is the scum of the earth. a crying, narpy, haggard sourpuss who's an overrated journalist at best, and a sociopathic moron at worst.
I commend the guy for selling someone that people eat up, but he is not good for quality sports journalism
I think skip does it to be a troll to be completely honest. He knows people will get in a hissy fit when he talks about Dallas. Stephen A has a little too much of the Arodg Kool-Aid but he's hilarious when Dallas loses. The show has taken a hit without Skip and is reflected in the ratings.
Do you remember Rob Parker? He's a complete idiot. He said no way no how Brady could win another super bowl in 2012.
BTW Le'veon Bell made a diss track for Skip.
Honestly? I can't think of a lower profession than sports journalism. You want to talk about a career that produces a completely worthless product to society then you're talking about sports journalism.
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