Too many damn feminine men Today?
I truly believe that many of our country's current social issues can be traced back to the epidemic of men becoming too feminine. Only about 30-40 years ago (and many older users on this website can attest to this ), being a masculine man was honored and respected in this great country. I believe that men are falling behind and this can and will lead to massive problems. This is taking nothing away from women leaders and strong women (who I respect greatly).
Showing masculinity today is almost made to be politically incorrect and that is just wrong. This issue is far reaching and has many implications that most probably don't realize. More and more men are showing up in counseling today than ever before.
Issues like not feeling in control of their households, men not feeling powerful, men not being satisfied where they are in their careers, men feeling too controlled and too emotionally dependent, etc. The list goes on and on.
Men need to man back up. What do you guys think?
s
Dude, The hero's I grew up with make James Bond look like a choir boy:
Rambo Terminator RoboCop Predator Hulk Hogan, Macho Man,... Van Damm, Bloodsport Willis, Diehard Conan
So when I look at the movies that come out now for young kids, it's basically the weakest stuff I can imagine e.g. Frozen, Transformers (might be too violent haha), Harry Potter, Toy Story. No wonder skinny jeans are so in style.
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Adapt or die
I would agree the central reason behind all of this happiness and lack of acceptance of reality, failure, pain, suffering, and disparity. Feminism and the emasculation of the American male has caused all of these issues and many of the nations problems to come to pass. You can see it in every facet of our society...soon testosterone will be a rare and valued commodity sold on the black market to the highest bidder because it will cease to exist in its natural state.
As a society we have taken that what makes maleness and femaleness different and viewed it as bad. You can see it on both sides of the pendulum. It's about influence and input. God made man and woman separate but equal. When you have equal and opposite forces with equal and opposite influences then the amount of input must be equal. If the male influence on society was disproportionately more then we'd have a different set of issues. The key is one of balance...yin and yang.
This. I've yet to have children of my own and don't have first hand experience with the somehwat recent "participation medals" but they seem to have become the norm. The fact of the matter is, there will always be winners and there will always be losers. To reward a child for trying seems ridiculous. Of course you encourage your children and praise them for a good effort. But it should be instilled in a child that trying is a given. If you want to succeed you try harder and harder until success can become a reality. Giving little Timmy a medal for finishing in second last place and saying "great job little Timmy!" can only lead him to believe that he will be rewarded no matter what his performance. This manifests itself when he's passed over for a promotion twenty years later and bitches about how the world is out to get him and life isn't fair. He tried and should therefore be rewarded for that effort regardless of the fact someone else is more deserving of said promotion, either through more effort or sheer competence. Learning how to lose with grace and dignity is an important life lesson, just as learning how to win without being a dick about it is important. If you spend your childhood amassing medals for simply showing up, how could you be expected to think the working world is any different. This results in "men" who morph into cranky little brats the second they are faced with adversity or aren't given a pat on the back and praised every time they do exactly what they're expected to do. Maybe not the the best example of the feminization of men, but certainly an example of the rampant pussification of men. Buck up and don't expect a blowjob every time you get a spreadsheet done on time. Instead, be a man and just handle your responsibilities, because that is just WHAT MEN DO. End rant.
It is the feminization of the nation dude. Basically de-clawing a cat. You see it everywhere. Political Correctness is at the core of it. IMO, ignore and resist it. It is rule by the 2%. Nearly all women don't believe in it and the ones that do you want nothing to do with anyway.
Red Pill my man, red pill.
Haha you know about red pill and white knighting as well?
I took you for a blue pill man.
But for real everyone needs to swallow that red-pill.
Also Emma Watson whole speech at the UN isn't going help anyone either.
Emma Watson is way hotter in person. Just saying.
Wow. Really glad from what I'm reading so far. Good to know that some on here think similar to the situation. Keep them coming. I really like this topic.
James Bond isn't on Twitter, yes, but Dan Bilzerian is on Instagram.
This dude is a total badass.
I completely agree. The guy just spends his Dad's PE money and puts on this massive insecurity facade of having guns and women. Does this guy have any purpose in life? I guess it's fun for now but he might wake up one day and realize he isn't doing anything productive.
I love the idea of having money and balling out, but you need to have more than that in your life.
No way man... the guy's a very successful poker pro... Made $50 milly playing high stakes poker. I'm sure his initial bankroll came from daddy, yes, but now he's his own man.
Well what about Bruce Wayne (batman)?
Sounds like somebody forgot to check their privilege.
Obama
Skinny jeans, Buzzfeed/Huffpo articles, coldplay
"A real man wants two things: danger and play. Therefore he wants woman as the most dangerous plaything. Man shall be educated for war, and woman for the recreation of the warrior: all else is folly." - Friedrich Nietzsche
sounds like your friends need to swallow the redpill
This is so true and dead on. Why are men so damn soft today - it's getting ridiculous. Man the fuck up
Too much estrogen in our foods
Send your list of grievances to Monsanto.
We're not competitive anymore. Our hardwiring has been completely transformed. It's not about winning anymore, it's about not making the loser feel bad. Teachers can't tell students they got questions wrong because it's "mean". Everyone in sports gets trophies because having losers isn't "nice". If you say anything REMOTELY mean or off queue, there's massive social media platforms at everyone's disposal to publicly shame you and ruin your life. Look at the AP story recently. It's been relentlessly plastered all over Yahoo (a site I'd have stopped going to by now if my FF wasn't run through it). This is a man who is one of the best RBS in the history of one of the most competitive sports leagues. And some presumably liberal arts major writing for some shitty website thinks he/ she is in a position to tell HIM how to do things? Look, you can go right ahead and raise the next star barista- but it blows my mind that people like that think they're in a position to condemn people that have accomplished 1000000x what they EVER will. Maybe HE'S the one that's on to something and the writer is the one who doesn't have the right idea. GASP!!!
I basically view our country as a giant trust fund baby right now. Our parents did all the work, we merely stepped into a great situation, and now that we're in charge we're gonna blow it because we were babied and consequentially never developed the characteristics needed to keep it going (let alone to have created it in the first place). The world's gonna be a weird, weird looking place when this wave of babied "everyone wins" liberals find themselves with the keys to the car. Sry, I got carried away. Bit of a hot button for me. Proceed.
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Maybe you didn't read what Adrian Petersen actually did to his 4 year old kid. He whipped the shit out of him with a stick and the kid had lacerations all over his ass and even his nuts. In my mind, what he did is worse than what Ray Rice did (although neither is good). Maybe some of you aren't familiar with how little and infantile 4 year olds are, but they are tiny and defenseless.
If that's what's considered 'being a man', I say, 'no, thanks'.
I guess I didn't read that part of the post. Did the poster see the pics of what Peterson did to his kid? This wasn't a spanking that someone reported, he beat a 4 year old kid with a belt and switch. And that's somehow masculine and something the government shouldn't get involved in? And it's the fault of the liberal news media?
He beat a fucking defenseless kid. That's not a liberal or conservative issue, it's simply wrong. The absolute least masculine thing you can do is hurt a kid.
Honestly, the first sensible thing said in this post. There appear to be many highly insecure WSO users out there if they feel the need to beat their chests so much. The world is evolving and men are actually happier today than 30 years ago. Interestingly, the oppositie is true for women. I'll try to find the actual study.
I can relate to the points expressed here so far.
But I have to say that being a man is not just about being belligerent and confrontational. I think it is about having an wide range of emotions along with the ability to control them. Think about it - you need to be able to talk and relate to people - how else are you going to rally support?
Successful warriors need practice and mastery of their art as well as to be cool, calculated &, dare I say, strategic in their actions and approach. You cannot really expect to survive if you are only good at swinging wildly.
In conclusion, what it takes for men to 'succeed'/be a man has not really changed in centuries. It is just that the popular opinion about what it takes for men to 'succeed'/be a man is really not true.
Everywhere you turn, normal male behavior is being stomped out. You need a lawyer to draw up a consent agreement before you have sex. Think about that. It isn't serial assault awareness, it is presumption of male guilt.
Same thing with this unequal wage mantra. Everyone with half a brain knows people aren't paid 70 cents to a man's dollar, yet it is parotted over and over again with the underlying theme that men are evil and doing this. Try pointing out the disparity in women in nursing or teaching and watch the misogyny claims come raining down.
Or look at the assault on the military. An institution based on winning a war now needs to deal with an endless PC assault.
Red pill guys. Red pill.
Maybe. Or maybe it's just poor communication and being excessively judgemental about another person's intentions. Males growing up these days need to stop making assumptions and use their words to communicate instead of feeling entitled to sex or certain behaviours based on their past experiences/whatever they were taught growing up.
Come on now this sounds like a guaranteed ticket to the friend zone. Errbody knows this apprach don't get no pussy.
Maybe it's because I'm from a different generation (not everyone got a trophy when I was growing up), but being a masculine male is still prized in my opinion. That doesn't mean being a sexist, racist asshole who feels like fighting and carrying a gun makes you a man (and I've been doing martials arts since I was 10 and own guns so I actually have no problem with either). It doesn't mean your role model being a movie action hero makes you a man. When I grew up in the 80's people said culture was becoming weak because our role models weren't John Wayne and Charton Heston types. You know what the John Wayne and Charlton Heston types largely were? Sexist and racist assholes. You know what Rambo was? A homicidal maniac with PTSD. I'd much rather have my two sons turn out like Woody or Harry Potter than Rambo.
I'm not a politically correct pussy by any means and think most of that is plain old stupid but being a man means being a good and honest person who's not out there to screw people over. It's about being a good husband and father if that's the path you choose. It's about developing real relationships with family and friends and being there for them in times of need and being able to count on them to be there for you. And you know what? It's totally fine to show classic American masculine traits. You just can't be an asshole. I fight as a hobby and ride a big motorcycle, I'm just not an asshole.
Have men's roles changed from the classic 1950's view of what a man and his role in society is? Definitely. But people have this general view that the past was some halcyonic uptopia where all was good and well with the world. It wasn't. Ask people who lived in the 1950's what it was truly like and if they're telling you the truth they'll tell you that the world wasn't perfect by any means and that men and women had many of the same problems, and women had even more because they weren't allowed many of the options that were then available to men and that are now available to women. Just like the grass is always greener, the past was always somehow better. And like I said, some of the PC shit is just silly but it honestly doesn't make that big of a difference in your daily life.
And complaining about the state of life as an American male? Cry me a fucking river. You already won the lucky sperm lottery by being born in the 2% of the world's population with more opportunity and privilege than nearly anyone else on earth.
True.... SB'ed.
I'm guessing you watched The Karate Kid a few times growing up... when I'm clicking around it's hard to pass on that classic
That was probably the greatest piece of marketing material for martial arts ever. I'm surprised the industry didn't actually produce it.
Gunna have to disagree on a few points. First, you keep associating the term sexist with 'assholes'. Do you know what qualifies as sexist in this day and age? There's people out there that will call you sexist for merely trying to say men and women are biologically different. You use the example of wanting your sons to be like Woody and Harry Potter. That means you want them to be good people. (although I'll disagree on Woody. IIRC, wasn't he insanely jealous and tried killing Buzz? Great role model...Lol) Being a good person does not automatically make you a good man. Have a random girl pick between Rambo and Harry Potter and 9/10 times I bet it's... I don't even need to say it. You can shrug your shoulders or roll your eyes to this fact of life all you want but it is a truth we cannot avoid.
As you state, I agree in not being an asshole. But being a completely nice person benefits no man. The phrase 'Nice guys finish last' exists for a reason. Lewis Schiff who wrote the book 'Business Brilliant' found the following out 'Almost 90 percent of the millionaires in the survey agree that "it's important in negotiations to exploit the weaknesses in others." The middle class? Just 24 percent. '
Lastly, I find it amusing that you trivialize and downplay 'complains' from American males because they're so privileged. As if 'privilege' and opportunity equates to happiness with life. Everything is relative. If your reasoning was right, then the US would consistently rank #1 in happiest country in the world. Hint: It's not. Not close actually. It's typically a 'third world' country like Costa Rica. Not to mention the increasing number of Americans taking antidepressants. Life can't be too grand then.
'And like I said, some of the PC shit is just silly but it honestly doesn't make that big of a difference in your daily life.' Haha, tell that to the growing number of men getting butt-raped by divorce all to see their kids a few times a month.
Your argument makes no sense. And your writing is terrible.
I'll concede on Woody. He was a bit of a neurotic bitch. But he was supposed to personify loyalty and it's only a movie character. Maybe Lightning McQueen would have been a better choice. And yes I've watched way too many Pixar movies. If you all have kids you will one day you'll know the feeling of having watched Cars 200 times. But to one of the posters above: James Bond is someone to whom to aspire. No doubt.
As for most women choosing Rambo over a nice guy? That may be a stereotype and Pamela Anderson may have chosen guys like that but the vast majority of women past high school are going to choose the good guy who provides well for his family. Not the Hells Angel who's going to beat her and pass her around to the rest of the club.
Regarding your statement that someone will call be called a sexist for inane and trivial reasons: I really don't give a fuck what someone like Rachel Maddow says just like I don't care what Glenn Beck says. She can have her opinion but opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. There are obvious differences between men and women and anyone who thinks otherwise is a PC douche. That doesn't necessarily mean one is better than the other, we're just different. If I wanted everyone to be the same I'd be gay and married to me. I just can't blow myself.
I don't think that good (not asshole) equates with pushover. I'm basically a professional negotiator. I'd take advantage of a weakness as silly as a guy having a zit on his nose if I thought it was going to give me the advantage. Aggressiveness is a biproduct of testosterone. I think it's good. I like agressive and I'm of ther mindset that greed is in fact good. But I'm also of the mindset that you can be an honest and good person while extolling all that is good about having lots of testosterone flowing around your system and wanting to win. On the other hand being a bitchy underhanded lier isn't necessary. This will sound insane to most people here but a few years ago we started getting involved in a deal with Donald Trump. After a first meeting I just felt dirty so I reached out to one guy who used to work for him and another who was an old timer construction biz guy from NYC who had dealt with him numerous times. The Donald tries to put himself out there as this great negotiator and business man but both guys told me he was actually just a giant sleaze. He had no honor, went back on his word, lied and didn't pay his contractors regularly so he could pocket a few more bucks. He wasn't an aggressive businessman, he was just a sleaze ball. I've sat across the table from guys who are wildly more successful than him who are good guys. When they say they will do something you know that they will outside of an act of god.
Happiness and the state of the modern American male have nothing to do with each other. Id be as happy as a peach if I lived in Costa Rica on the beach, surfed all day and took bong hits all night too. If you look at those happiness surveys they also regularly rank places like Norway on top. It's basically a socialist country that's also one of the more emasculating societies also. Personally, I don't want that.
Guys in therapy or on happy drugs: half the country regardless of age is taking some pharmaceutical to make them feel or perform better. That has nothing to do with male emasculation but with the fact that everyone thinks they can be happy or better through pharma. That's a much larger and different discussion though.
Regarding divorced guys, I agree, it sucks. But I'm not sure what that has to do with the feminization of the American male. PC or whatever you want to name as the cause has little to do with family law: it's primarily due to an increase of the divorce rate starting in the 60's/70's and the developing case law associated with it. Mothers tend to get custody because it's traditionally the mother who is the primary caregiver. I know a couple of guys who were granted custody and that's because they are the primary caregiver. Not because Rachel Maddow espouses radical feminism on msnbc.
I suppose my main point is that the view that American males are somehow being emasculated is just a cop out. Not as a bragging thing but I am an alpha make to the core. And I primarily interact with people like me. None of us complain about it outside of a few guys I know who also think there's a new world order going on. Give it time, gain success and don't be an asshole and you'll encounter no resistance from those you're attempting to assimilate. And I swear this is coming from one of the most foul mouthed, non-PC, motorcycle riding, fighting (who has to explain to colleagues and investors black eyes and broken noses because I somehow think full contact martial arts is a good idea for a 40 year old) guys who throws on an expensive suit during the week.
Well put. SB'd.
Look around, there's plenty of GOOD GUYS who are men, some in more macho or others in more intellectual endeavors than others, with varying degrees of imperfect humanity, trying their best as men to do right and be good people.....good guys. Some dudes make art/music, some guys crunch numbers, some guys join the military, others work hard supporting a family....some do all of the above. They may not be perfect, they can still be GOOD GUYS. It's a very simple concept.
Also, I fat fingered the touchpad on my craptacular workstation and accidentally threw poo at you, so uh, yeah, I owe you a SB on your next post. Or a drink at the next WSO HH. Whichever I get around to first :D
I'm glad someone finally pointed this out. Everyone who brings up this issue always romanticizes the past as if it was some great time to live. Honestly being a white male in the US puts you in a better position than almost any other person on the planet.
Also, people generalize American culture by applying an ultra-liberal mindset. I have heard many people complain about the issues OP talked about and no one considered it sexist or non-PC (unless "being in control of the household" meant beating your wife)
I never made it out to be that the history was all peaches and roses. I agree with you there. I am referring to a very specific issue that has caused specific problems. Look at the divorce rates in the 50s-60s compared to today. Look at the infidelity rates in the 50s-60s compared to today. Look at the teen pregnancies in the 50s-60s compared to today. Look at the adultery # in the 50s-60s compared to today. The changes are significant. I guess if you don't care about these types of things, then thats a different story.
Teen pregnancies are down. Is your argument that men are less masculine because we're impregnating less teenage girls?
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf says:
http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-health-topics/reproductive-health… says
1) You have no clue what the rate of infidelity was in the 1950s 2) People didn't get divorced because of social stigma back then...if you think it makes men more manly or women more feminine to be forced to stay in bad marriages then you and I differ on the definition of those terms 3) The divorce rate has actually been falling again more recently because we don't force people into getting married as young by socially shaming them for being single...by your definition that makes us less manly. But the lower divorce rate makes us more manly. wait I am getting confused.
Boxing? If so, any interest in some friendly sparring next time you're in New York with spare time?
I haven't pure boxed in a while but that could be cool. I may need shoulder surgery in the next couple of months though. Aging sucks.
I never understood why people brand themselves 'feminists' and not 'gender equality activists' ... they claim to want equality but scoff at any sort of male activism - not very helpful at all. I have never heard a feminist say that 'don't let him pay for dinner' ever. wonder why?
... it kinda sets up 'enemy' camps right from the start.. Don't you think?
Another one of my favorites is how Feminists don't get offended by the idea of rescuing women and children first.
Well... they are, after all, feminists... why people assume that to somehow mean 'gender equality activists' is beyond me - at least as far as the developed world is concerned
Just out of pure curiosity, @"sjl1009", what is your definition of Masculine and Masculinity?
My idea on what it takes to be a man has nothing to do with any negative qualities that being 'masculine' may come with (excessive aggression, being an 'asshole', degrading women, etc.). When I wrote this topic, I was actually referring to the positive characteristics that a Good Man might have. These are things like
These are the things I am talking about when I refer to being a Man. I believe that many of these things are in men's nature but have been lost more recently with the emergence of all the Pop-culture and politically correct bs. I think many guys and girls don't know what a man is suppose to be like today, thus too many prissy guys out there who are gender confused.
The answer to everything can't be we won the genetic lottery. Like I understand ebola and starvation blow and all, but when I don't get a fresh piece of multi grain bread in my cosi order the pain is very real.
Don't devalue my hurt just cause I don't have blood coming out my eyes. It's all relative.
Oh, and fellow red pill bretheran, watch out. I can already see the white knights coming in. Hold faithful.
On another note, being a masculine man involves at least the following things:
-- Accepting your flaws as well as your strengths. Self-aware. -- Respecting yourself and setting boundaries of what you will tolerate from others. -- Being assertive about having your personal needs met. -- Respecting others and their individual boundaries. -- Not seeking approval from other people, "march to the beat of your own drum". -- Do what needs to be done and in control of feelings and emotions regardless of the results, "outcome independent". -- Being direct, honest, and straightforward. Saying what you mean and meaning what you say. Keeping your word. -- Being dependable and reliable to those close to you. -- Always committed to self improvement, goal oriented.
I guess what I'm trying to say is...if you don't like the freshness of your cosi bread, calmly rip open some nearby carrot packets, grab a handful, and take aim.
Similar traits to being a feminine woman, no?
Surprisingly yes except for being direct and emotionally detached. I think those are distinctly male attributes.
Feminine women are graceful...I'm not sure exactly how to describe that.
O/U on my comment's MS is set at 5.5
And not one female was seen in this thread.
And this thread is pretty funny, because there is (almost) no arguing, everyone is preaching to the choir here.
This proves the opposite point though. This is what the world would look like if the feminists won, except you swap out the explicit sexuality with gossipy in-circles.
Yea, idk the details of the story. I think most actual NFL fans (100% of the ones I talk to anyway) would agree that since the Rice debacle had finally ended, it was just annoying to see a new one immediately re-hash. I was referring to the former. The latter isn't defensible. My guess is that if he proves the former, we'll be seeing him around again. The latter? He's prob done. But again, I'm not really following this story so idk wtf's going on. In other news, one more story like this coming out of the NFL and imma start looking into becoming a fan of either the CFL, AFL, or even the LFL. That'd be all she wrote for me.
I am SOOOO sick of the NFL thing. Both parties were charged with assault. Dude got arrested, tried and punished. NFL suspended him for a couple games, Goodell moved on to actual important shit. Then the PC drones and the womens rights clowns got a hold of this and we haven't heard the end of it yet.
I love how people focus on Goodell "only" suspending him for 2 games, yet no one cares about the prosecutor, cops, judge, etc giving him out patient counseling.
Not feminine, but just some really spineless manservants supplicating to females.
I'm just surprised how most women act like men these days.
I wouldn't so much point to a feminization of men. More-so, I just think our generation are a bunch of little entitled shits in general. Case in point:
http://elitedaily.com/life/50-things-millennials-make-corporate-america…
Obviously can't put to much stock into this as it is EliteDaily but it is really sad to think IMO roughly half our generation thinks this way.
Awesome thread. That article made me so mad, it's literally ridiculous.
I don't see your point. You quoted someone saying that american men are becoming feminized, and then said no, they just try to act manly. Whoever you quoted IS SAYING THE OPPOSITE. All that stuff you listed is exactly the manly stuff the thread is saying is going away... So apparently you think it is alive and well, with complaining.
And spare us the white american male guilt speech. Liberals want white males to feel bad for being white males. And by the way, people in other countries complain a lot, women complain a lot, and so do other races besides whites...so, I don't buy it. And, if you said stuff like you said about ANY other group besides white american males, you would be crucified, you would be labeled a sexist, a racist, a bigot, a conservative, greedy, evil person, but in today's society it's ok if you say it about men, especially white men. So probably yes, it's probably white american men who are becoming feminized because they have targets on them by the liberal media.
Can you clarify which among the behaviours I mentioned you think are actually manly? Is it: - Guns as external compensation for lack of actual masculinity; - Unnecessarily oversized cars as external compensation for lack of actual masculinity; - Empty bravado and empty aggression; or - Whining and complaining
Maybe we come from different schools of masculinity if you think any of these constitute manliness.
I really just don't see what the fuss is about. No one is stopping men from acting like men. You just can't take advantage of other people and expect that they're going to take it lying down: beating up a gay dude and raping some random chick doesn't fly anymore. It shouldn't have in the first place. The whole gun debate has become absurd: I like guns but it really does seem like the talk surrounding it is about way more than buying a third AR-15...it serves some emotional need to rant about something I suppose. Listen, I'm not talking about the crowd that gives trophies just for showing up...that's not unmanly, it's just plain weird. What I'm talking about is you or any other guy getting a good job, working out, chasing girls, and doing any of the other things that men do: go do it. Go be a man, there's nothing stopping you.
It's interesting: after about 30, men's interest in status symbols and shows of 'manliness' start to take a back seat to their actual personal interests and goals. Not sure how that fits into the conversation here, it just felt relevant.
No, I actually wasn't necessarily referring to only White males whatsoever. I am referring to all men. A gender confused white guy is no different than a prissy black guy. The black population is also detrimental to this feminization of men. Many black homes without father figures or fathers who are not masculine (Read my comment on what I think it is to be masculine), leave their children confused growing up what it takes to be a true man (Again, read my comment).
As for the complaining, I don't see the same things your seeing obviously. Yes, white males may complain but the black and latino populations not complaining? Obviously you have never been in a ghetto area. Go to the hood and ask one of them what they think about the government, economy, etc. It's all complaints.
Plus, seems like your just another complainer. Complaining about complaining.........
Given that most of progress was built by men, this enforced PC agenda, actually benefits the alpha male. My female coworkers are in empowerment programmes and training specially for them, while I'm out meeting clients, selling and getting on with delivering. Guess who has the better results.
It's just a derivative of the fact that women no longer seem interested in actual men. They're basically just lesbians looking for pretty girls (feminine men) who have more "tools" at their disposal.
I love a frothy topic like this. And bring on the white male shaming. Always an effective topic on this site /sarc.
Men today (and by that I mean people who are 40 and younger) have lower levels of testosterone than any generation before us.
Xenoestrogenic plastics are all around us - cups, cutlery, plates, etc.
Girls piss out estrogen into the water supply via birth control pills.
The cultural part of this complex situation is definitely one that we need to be cognizant of, but once you are aware of that and have your mindset in order, you are still going to be screwed. No matter how "alpha" your mindset is, you still aren't a man if you are producing shit levels of testosterone.
I would recommend all you guys who are 25 and older to think about getting your T levels checked, and if they are low, you all should truly consider testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Not that AndroGel bullshit, but the actual injects of Test Propinate/Ethanate. We have access to such amazing healthcare products, yet no one take advantages of the ones that can truly change your life for the better.
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I don't know. Perhaps lax bros, greedy congressmen, short-term greedy bankers and Southern revisionists are a reactionary movement to 'declining masculinity,' but if you want to find a reason for social issues today, I'd start there.
To clarify my statement, I think the vision of what constitutes manliness in America has grown horribly distorted. Lax/frat bros, Wealthier Southerners rocking confederate flags, the vast majority of the people on Capitol Hill and the Howie Hubler-types on Wall Street are all trying to compensate for some sort of inadequacy by fleeing into rigged games where intellectual honesty is utterly verboten and yet these are unfortunately the the contemporary archetype for what constitutes success among White American males.
I'm sorry, but guns aren't some cook extender. Sure, if you come from a country that doesn't love freedom and dominance I can see you misunderstanding Americas love of guns, but it is the 2nd most important right in this country.
People have guns because they are cool. We also have big cars because we enjoy using the majority of the world's natural resources. The epitome of being a bitch is wanting to drive a kia so someone can live on, $2 bucks a day instead of $1.
'Murica
+1 SB
I think the increase in the divorce rate in our country is also contributing. Custody almost always goes to the Mother. I consider myself manly but my Dad wasn't around for those important years so I could see how that affects guys.
This thread needs Hacksaw Jim Dugan with his 2x4 and American flag.
haha, I've had the Hulk Hogan theme song playing in my head for 2 days now, "I am a real American..."
There is literally nothing that is distinctly masculine about a civillian owning a gun. What a joke haha. Now if you are ex-military and were ever shot at in a war zone then I will award you some man points.
This whole discussion is stupid...both sides of it. Live your life and don't worry about what is happening to "society". I don't know if society is feminized or not I live the life I want on my terms and that is it. If a woman starts talking to me about feminism I tell her I don't care about the subject and I end the conversation. Likewise for a dude playing the victim on this issue. The World is what you make of it and I see a lot of people, including in this thread, complaining about shitt that is either just not true (I need a contract to have sex!) or out of your control (They give trophies to kids who lose!). Make your own life and don't waste time theorizing about the imagined decline of society.
Please do not sully this thread with your logic BS, the kids may catch on.
Yes, Western men today are not masculine for the following reasons, among others.
Less competition for me I suppose.
Like I said before, men aren't men because women are no longer women. They're more aggressive/less nurturing; more dominant, more competitive, attracted to more feminine qualities, especially physical feminine qualities.
post providing political commentary and an opportunity for monkeys to declare their alphaness? Sure sign of a good time
This is a forum. It is meant for discussion. I think people can discuss issues which impact us either directly or indirectly while still living our lives.
Personally, the biggest Benedict Arnolds in the room are the guys who basically suck up to feminists in some misguided attempt at getting laid. Vichy French mother fuckers.
bitching about shit on the internet = absolute most manliest thing you can possibly do keep up the good fight bros
The only thing less manly than bitching on the internet, is bitching about bitching...on the internet.
I totally agree with the premise. Coming to US from Eastern Europe in 2007, I was appalled by how much of "relative" pussies most American men are, compared to where I grew up... Not intended as offense, most of us here should be analytic and mature enough to take a step back and see objective information. And I'm not sure if this is entirely a bad thing -- on the flipside, an overly-masculine culture (think, e.g. Spartans in "300") is not likely to create and produce something innovative and highly valuable... But I agree that US has gone way too far and lost its bearings with the PC, tolerance and making everyone feel good, to the point that it cripples those who do want to perform and achieve...
It's sad for the nation in general (and the whole Western civilization, for that matter), but what are you gonna do? People inevitably degrade when they are safe, well-fed and consequently bored, and that's what's been going on here like in no other place on Earth... By the way, an average black kid in US is much tougher than an average white kid. Coincidence?
We should be thankful for having the Atlantic separating us from Middle East... If you compare willingness to fight and aggressiveness in an average white European/American kid vs an average Muslim kid, and then extrapolate it on a national scale and 5-10-15 years forward, you'll see that the Europe is done... It will become Muslim in no time.
Unless some epic crisis or war (on our soil) shakes us up by creating scarcity or universal sense of urgency, I don't see how we can get back to "being a man"... Hopefully we'll have some red-neck uprising or something like that that will shut off any liberal influence... but short of that, it's only downhill from here.
A great topic and a few comments.
1) Just because you think Obama is a societal problem, which he is, does not make you a racist. Not liking Obama because he is black makes you a racist. So check that crap at the door.
2) The decay of the family unit is a reason. This includes the rise of single parent households and the absence of a strong male leader. In the absence of a strong male leader, the following generation doesn't have an immediate role model to teach him what it means to be masculine.
3) The personification of the modern American male as an idiot has not helped. Everything ranging from sitcoms to social media, to commercials denigrates the Dad or the male figurehead.
4) I think the social media bullying and subsequent anti-bully movement contribute to this mindset. There was a time that problems were resolved through face-to-face diplomacy and in the absence of resolution, school yard justice. I could wax poetic for volumes on how conflict, not peace, is the natural state of the human condition and how that conflict brings catharsis, but alas I digress...
5) *Van Damme, and he is not masculine, he is a choreographed coke head.
6) I would agree with Seuss in that we spend to much time awarding mediocrity instead of rewarding excellence... "losers always whine about their best... winners go home and eff the prom queen."
7) I have stopped reading because I have the top of a ladder to reach, and make a reservation for dinner so I can take my insanely hot, blonde, large breasted, business executive Wife out for a night on the town before I go home and get back to work on making our first... Of course she won't be sucking on my left ball, because that is reserved for members of ISIL.
Off topic, but I just want to point out that Rambo was actually a much more complex character then is generally understood...Rambo was a disaffected Vietnam vet who snaps after seeing the suffering of the family of one of his former comrades at arms. From there he rages on the local police in a small town and ends up being convicted for killing several police officers. I love that flick but it isn't a mindless patriotic movie its actually quite an interesting revenge fantasy of a soldier with PSTD after vietnam.
You are 100% right. Rambo (I) was a decent film about a disaffected PTSD Vietnam vet, and maybe it's a personal feeling because I lived through the time, but at the time of the movie, 1982, Vietnam seemed like it was so long before but it was only 8 years after the fall of Siagon. That's nearly equatable to a shell shocked banker who made it through the 07-08 crisis: maybe someone needs to make a movie about that banker but instead of being an expert with all weapons, he can use excel and negotiating skills to take on the world. Rambo was tarnished, much like Rocky, because Stallone had a thing for sequels and took the character and story so far from the original that they became caricatures of what they had been in the first films, PTSD Vet or poor, stupid guy from South Philly with a heart and dream. Once John Rambo was battling the Russians in Afghanistan alongside the mujahideen (ironic as hell that he was probably fighting alongside a fictional Bin Laden) while personally taking out entire tank divisions or Rocky was taking on the entire USSR and winning the commies over during the Drago fight (still love Rocky IV, but it was a far cry from Rocky), it brought them from sympathetic characters to standard '80's movie action hero culture.
But like I stated earlier, I'd still prefer my sons to not to turn out to be PTSD vets who end up being hunted down by vengeful sheriffs in the Pacific Northwest, all due respect to PTSD vets.
everyone in Hollywood likes sequals because they are guaranteed money makers....Sly is no different then anyone else who likes money in this regard.
And BTW the story behind the original rocky is interesting also...Sly was a down on his luck actor/writer, and was trying to write a screenplay about what that experience was like. He couldnt even get the script started, and then he went to see Chuck Wepner fight Mohammed Ali and realized that boxing was the perfect metaphor and he wrote Rocky. The actual Ali-Wepner fight pretty much follows the Rocky script with Wepner getting beaten up badly but gaining the respect of the crowd for hanging with Ali and even knocking him down at one point.
I'm glad you said this. The first Rambo got acclaim for really highlighting many vets post Vietnam experience. I mean not blowing up the town, but how he was treated, him talking about losing his friends, etc. The alternate ending has him killing himself.
Other rambos went off the rails, but the first one was really great on so many levels.
Our current environment has turned men into PUSSSSSSSIES. Nowhere is this more evident than the well-groomed and coiffed pretty boys @ the BB's who are scared of taking (prudent) risks for fear of denting their stable careers. Turning down opportunities to make hundreds of millions in return for "security".
To be fair, if you're not from an affluent family, it's very difficult to take big risks.
delete
Socially, yes, many of the problems can be traced to radical feminism and the emasculation of men in our country. Politically and economically, much of our problems can be traced back to Lyndon Johnson's Great Society programs of the 1960's.
These dick smoking puss cakes could learn a lot from Gran Torino
//www.youtube.com/embed/VXD8yOxIPB0
This hard on with being an entrepreneur. Not everyone has a great idea or invention. And the vast majority of people who are "entrepreneurs" basically do nothing and act self important.
If you have a good idea and make it work, bravo. But not everyone who works an job is some risk adverse pussy.
delete
You don't have to have a great idea or invention to be an entrepreneur. I have a cousin who dropped out of school, worked construction, learned that business, and currently owns a construction company and just opened his own gym. Dude is absolutely killing it and is still in his 30s. Personally, I admire anyone who can start their own business and make it work.
Frankly speaking, I'd feel pretty disappointed with myself if, 20,30,40 years from now, I haven't at least made a serious attempt to do something on my own, even if it does make me less money than following a traditional career path. I'm not some new-generation entitled little shit either. I was working near full-time at a supermarket after school in HS and worked construction for two summers. Additionally, as a first-generation American, I don't expect anything to be handed to me but I just don't think I'd be happy with myself if I did nothing but work for other people my entire life.
I think this is a fair opinion. Personally, I don't consider you to be in the target group I am talking about. That being said, I think you'd agree that being an "entrepreneur" is the hot thing right now and when many people use the word I don't think they are talking about the endless grind, sacrifice and hard work it involves. It isn't as if any venture, big or small, just happens after a couple beers and smoking a bowl.
This is one of the stupidest threads I've ever read.
Jesus, I'm too old for this site, you guys are all a bunch of whiny, misogynist children --- newsflash, complaining about feminists and "feminizing of america" on an internet message board is one of the most pathetic, "unmanly" things you can do. The supposed "Real men" you fantasize would literally laugh at you guys.
Didn't you post about wanting to blow someone to get into the front office?
I'll make sure we run any future discussion by you if that's ok.
Lol. Another round of complaining about complaining. Wish I could attend one month of business school to become elderly and wise too.
What is wrong with you????
Why are men becoming pussies? Because it is now socially acceptable to be a pussy. If society didn't accept it, we wouldn't have this problem. Why do you think so many people are dependent, they are too big of pussies to put themselves out there and try and make something of themselves. I have way more respect for someone who put their nuts on the line and ended up homeless than I do for someone who plays it safe their whole life.
I am a football fan and look up diego simeone (manager of atletico madrid). Guy is alpha as hell. His mere presence galvanises everyone in a stadium. Jurgen klopp is not bad either.
Haha, soccer is badass, they bring out a stretcher for a twisted ankle
(can't believe I missed that earlier)
Had to lol at that one. I'd still like to think 30-40 years ago was somewhere in the 1947-1957 era but 30-40 years ago was actually one of the most closeted flamboyant times. Do you remember when people honestly questioned whether Bowie, Elton John and Freddie Mercury were gay? And come to think of it in the golden era of masculinity, when Rock Hudson, James Dean and so many other masculine pop stars were?
Then AIDS had to go and ruin the party.
What are you trying to say??
Oh man, gotta love the sales quip. Sorry, but sales isn't any easier than anything else and kids who cheat and basically short cut aren't going to end up as great sales people. Everyone thinks sales is smooze from day one yet fail to see the effort it takes to identify qualified leads, prepare a good pitch, service the client appropriately, know your product or service inside out and backwards. Winging it might be ok when selling cars or steak knives, but professional sales people aren't lazy ass fuckers.
Relax, I'm not saying they are lazy or sales is easy. It's work that is far beyond me. But being excellent at sales is often about charisma and the sort of smarts that often doesn't come through in GPA. Kids with 4.0 can be smug for all of about 3 - 5 years before they realise the charismatic sales guy will leave them in the dust.
I agree. Wasn't trying to be aggressive towards you. I just think people underestimate how 1) hard working for yourself is and 2) how hard it is to come up with an idea worth a shit.
What I do think everyone should do is have some type of side hustle. You can work for a living, but it is so easy to start a side business that almost everyone should do. With Etsy, Amazon, cheap webhosting and Craigslist it is incredibly easy to create multiple revenue streams.
No worries, no unintended offence erroneously taken by me.
I'm terrible at side hustle. That's why I like sitting in the conservative field of investment banking because you can make a lot of money without taking much risk. Well, without taking risk over your own money. We take plenty of risks with other people's money.
Pussy. :-)
If anyone ever writes a musical about life in investment banking, there should be a tune called "Other people's money" where a few men sing a ditty about how much money they lost on a deal or a position, but how that's OK because...
it's...
juuuuuust...
Other people's money. Other people's money. No one we know, yeah it's other people's money.
Then they tap dance.
I agree. There is an epidemic of males wearing short-shorts in public. This new effeminate style I find quite displeasing.
Thoroughly agree with this. As a man, you should only show your knees in public if you're exercising.
Showing knee otherwise is indecent. It's like talking to someone while you're at a urinal or in a toilet stall.
Chubbies are badass dude, you just can't rock it without some quads/hams. If you're an androgynous stick figure you should stick to the capris.
Anyone who wears shorts that go past their knees some how wandered across the tracks.
Blue pill!! Wtf haha
I always love the 20 year olds, who think they are experts on 30 and 40 years olds, on this site.
its the whole 30 is the new 20 ordeal, that is getting to men. Also the "male" within a male is largely influenced by his environment. This environment that we live in today didn't happen overnight it has been in the making for years to come.
Today people are changing their ideas of what it means to be a man. For example having bigger pecs than the guy next to you makes you a manlier man.
A little late to the party here, but gotta say a real man is someone who drinks black coffee and doesn't give a fuck about what he eats. It hurts me to the core to see "men" order fancy coffee drinks and eat salads for lunch.
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