Max age of IBD analysts, when is it too old?
Hi all, what age is it 'too old' to start an analyst stint? Are there many people who do a BA then JD or MD and transfer to IBD? What's the oldest analyst you've met, and how did he/she get along with the rest of the analyst class?
An analyst stint is tough, long hours and tedious work. I know a few analysts in their lower 30's but it is more taxing on them- if you have a family, you will not see them.
If you have an advanced degree, you should go in as an associate.
graduated from a top school with a bacherlors in engineering, did a co-op for about a year. went back to to school and did a masters in engineering. interned at my old firm and then after the MSc was complete, he started in banking full time. he stayed for 3 years and started as an associate at MM PE associate last year. He's ~30ish
I'm making it up as I go along.
I think, generally speaking, the analyst cutoff is around 29-30. I've seen analysts as old as 28 come on as first years, but they had a military, which accounted for their delayed entry into banking. Are there exceptions to every rule, sure, but in general, I think analysts starting their first year would usually fall in the under 30 category.
As far as getting along, that is on a case by case basis. People at 30 can get along with a 24 year old quite easily, just as a 24 year old can not get along with anyone around his/her age. It all depends on personality and interests, not age. There are numerous analysts who are married or are in serious relationships, so if one of your side questions was regarding a family, I don't think that issue is by any means unique to analysts older than 28 since I know analysts 25 in serious relationships, engaged or married, and I know associates in their 30s who are single - again, just as is always the case with fit - it's about interests and personality.
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Is it possible to apply for associate position after studying for an advanced degree, e.g. PhD, JD, MD. Also, how will recruiters view such applicants having done one year of non-IB work after graduating, e.g. one year as a trainee lawyer, before applying for FT in IBD? Will such applicants be better off NOT working and taking a year out to concentrate on applying for IB FT?
I'm almost 26, and was wondering if there are many analysts who start out at that age?
had a couple of analysts in their mid 20s coming from a big4 rotation in my group (and the ex military as mentioned above). My guess is these non-recent grads were stuck into analyst roles because they didn't have graduate degrees, nor did they have prev. banking exp.
Too Old To Apply for Analyst Jobs in IB? (Originally Posted: 11/30/2015)
Hi Everyone,
I'm currently working in accounting, but have been looking to go into Investment Banking now after realizing that my current field isn't for me and that the opportunities I'll get from sticking around here are not interesting to me either. I think Investment Banking is the best fit for me because I have a background in finance, but I've also heard that IB is really rigid in their recruiting structure and won't usually look at people with experience applying for analyst positions. I was a little surprised by this, so I was wondering if anyone can confirm or deny this? In case it matters, I'm mostly targeting reputable middle-market investment banks because I personally enjoy working with smaller companies and because I've heard they offer a slightly better lifestyle adjustment, which I would take over making more money.
Also, in case analyst roles aren't an option, what would be the next best thing for me to do? I know management consulting at MBB would be impossible since I don't fit the profile of who they hire (I'm a non-target and don't have a killer SAT), but is there another role I could look into that could help me break in later on? For example, are there consultants who perform similar tasks as IBD analysts but are more open to non-traditional hires?
I'm in my mid-20s. Basically around the same age as a 2nd or 3rd year analyst.
Thanks!
You never said how old you were....
I'm in my mid-20s. Basically around the same age as a 2nd or 3rd year analyst.
Beta? This is alphaville bro. what about an mba?
Mid 20s is fine for analyst. If you can't lateral, consider an MBA and joining IB as a post mba associate
Re: the above - you most likely wouldn't be considered for the graduate analyst programs due to experience but there is no reason you couldn't lateral to ib as an analyst
I know a number of people who started in their mid-20s as analysts in IB. Whether you start as a 1st or 2nd year depends on relevant experience but regardless it's definitely doable.
I'd consider the MBA then coming in as an Associate/VP route
I know people who were in the military and jumped in to I-Banking in their late 20s.
Definitely not too late. Network around, and see what's out there. I'm sure there's a spot for you somewhere in IB. MM's probably a good bet, but also take a look at boutiques as well, if lifestyle's what you're going for.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess I must have misheard because I heard a lot of people tell me that IB analyst roles are exclusively out of UG and that lateral roles are really hard to come by. I guess the next question then is how do I go about networking without any contacts in the field?
When I was coming out of undergrad, I tried the cold-emailing everyone I could, but got absolutely no responses. This was part of what encouraged me to go into accounting instead of continuously trying to get into IB. I figured that it would at least be semi-relevant and could help me better understand financial statements to build models. I feel like I would be a decent candidate because I have some experience with financial modelng, I follow the markets, and have a decent GPA . I'm just not really sure how to get in front of the right people. My school also has almost no alumni in IB since it's a non-target, so it's hard to get in touch with people that way as well.
There are tons of people who have taken your path, anyone who says that laterals don't exist is naïve and inexperienced. Although I'm getting the impression that your GPA wasn't on point which will definitely be an issue for someone trying to make the move you are. Your age is fine, I didn't get in until my late 20's. Get the WSO guide, clean up your resume, and start applying like a mad man.
One other thing, don't go for MM because you think the hours are better. That's a lie.
You should target boutiques in the area. BB will likely not hire you.
I just started as a first year analyst at an industry specific boutique and I am mid 20s. Prior experience included 2 years credit and 1 year MSF.
Just keep grinding man, and I'm sure something will hit. Network your ass off.
Too old and experienced to land an analyst position? (Originally Posted: 01/10/2014)
Hello!
I am 23 years old 3.5 GPA recently graduated with a degree in actuarial science (non-target). I am currently working as a sales consultant for a software company. I haven't had any finance internships. My questions are: 1) Am I too old to apply for an ib internship or analyst position? 2) Am I too experienced? (Meaning, they only want fresh grads, without work experience) 3) Should I shoot for an internship or a FT position?
Thanks in advance!
I know someone who worked for Boeing for 3 years while getting their masters in econ and became a full time analyst at 27 for a BB.
Weird, I think I know who you're talking about. Unless of course there are more people that follow that path (which I highly doubt).
1- No 2- Not at all, you have no finance experience 3- Shoot for anything that is related to finance
I'd caution against taking an anecdotal example and imputing it to be the norm.
That being said... you're not even close to being too old. Age is the least of your worries.
What you have working against you: 1. Non-target 2. 3.5 GPA from a non-target 3. You work in sales (it may be the greatest job in the world, but bankers are bankers and if you went from UG to a non-pedigreed career, that is certainly going to work against you) 4. No finance experience
Considerations: 1. You're not going to get any internships worth getting. 2. I'd steer away from the big banks, their hiring practices are very very rigid and structured; your time is best spent focusing on what is more penetrable for you give your circumstances 3. You need to teach yourself financial modeling and corporate finance 4. You need to communicate your commitment and proven dedication to working in finance (your resume should get this point across) 5. You need to sell the leadership/overachiever point since you went to a non-target and got an ok, but not stellar GPA 6. Leverage your current experience in software sales; maybe try to use your knowledge of the sector to wedge your way into a boutique tech investment bank, or maybe tech equity research
Is it impossible? Absolutely not. Many people have accomplished more with less going for themselves. But it will take hard work, dedication and commitment. If you're upto that, then its by all mean possible.
Thanks for the kind words. I have had plenty of extracurricular activities, so I can definitely talk about those if given the chance. @"Marcus_Halberstram" 1) Is it harder to get an internship or a FT position? 2) How long does it take to learn financial modeling and corporate finance? 3) I have studied and passed for actuarial exams regarding financial markets and modeling, will that help me when and if I get an interview? 4) What is a good way to shape my resume as to show that I want to break into finance? 5) That being said, can I pm/email you my resume, for you to check/correct it?
@"Marcus_Halberstram" Thanks. I will begin doing my research.
Also forgot to mention that the actuarial background may help in getting into a FIG (Financial Institutions Group) since it could be a benefit (but not a huge one) in insurance banking.
@"Marcus_Halberstram" Do FIG operate similarly to IBD? As, they go from analyst to associate to VP, etc. Also, can you comment on the exit opportunities in FIG (PE, HF, VC, etc)?
FIG = Financial Institutions Group = a group in IBD
Read the FAQs and come back.
@"duffmt6" Thanks
How old is too Old for financial intern ?
the age is the least I would worry about.
Marcus has given a good piece of advice.
now do your homework and aim for some tech boutique IB, good luck.
Given your background in software sales, are you familiar with the various software sales models? If so, a tech or software focused bank or group could be a potential way in.
There are some similarities between your background and mine. I'd do as some of the people above have said. Since I'm going to graduate in a few months, I did a lot of research, came up with best case and worst case scenarios and planned for both of them. Considering I come from a non target, non finance background with no financial work experience, one of my biggest efforts has been networking and trying to learn the concepts myself. Here's something I'd recommend:
GL!
Am I too old to be a first year analyst? (Originally Posted: 06/27/2008)
Hello, Because of my early-year-slacking-off, I eventually graduated Sloan School Undergraduate Program this year and I already became 27. If I get a job in Sales & Trading or other Front Offices, would people look at me in a weird way because I am relatively much older than my peers? Thanks for your concern:)
No It's doesn't matter!
Too Old for Analyst Position? (Originally Posted: 05/18/2011)
I'm 30. 2 years forensic accounting exp and 1.5 years corporate finance exp.
5 years ago I went back to school (while working the above full-time) for a second undergrad; started pursuing accounting and fell for finance. Now I am deeply interested in pursuing an research position at an i-bank.
I understand that I would be 5 - 6yrs older than the 23 and 24 year olds who hold similar positions. Is my desire to pursue this type of opportunity unreasonable?
I hold a BSc and a BBA. I have no problem taking direction from those younger than me, my only requirement is that I learn the business -- so as long as I'm learning I don't mind who my orders are coming from. I'm OK with 100hr/wk, in fact I'm eager to work 100hr/wk as I have no family commitments, no kids, etc.... I'm just looking for some input from the WallStreetOasis community.
Any advice or insight would be appreciated.
I know a lot of people ask this question, I hope you don't mind that it's being asked again.
Thanks (very sincerely)!
You need to network, my father broke in while in his late 30s (BB in Risk Management).
Express the fact that you are eager to break into IB and eager to work hard / learn etc. Do not, however, try and express that you are eager and just cannot wait to work 100 hr weeks - even if it is true (god help your soul) it sounds like complete bullshit and makes the interviewee look like they don't know what the hell thy are talking about. I mean no-one in their right mind wants to work 100 hour weeks, do you realize how many hours a day that breaks down to?
When hours are mentioned, and they will be b/c your age, simply communicate that you understand the commitment IB requires - not that you just can't wait to work 100 hour weeks....
JBGH, 100hrs are not madness in IBD...
This isn't constructive because you can't change it now but I will say it anyway. Why in the world did you go back and get a second undergrad degree? That was a waste of time and money, you could have just as easily taken a class or two to brush up your knowledge and then spent 6 months studying the GMAT to land a top B-School and then you had a shot at landing as an associate instead of an analyst.
I do not want to be too negative, you obviously seem determined so keep staying at it and the best of luck.
He's not saying it's madness, he's saying WANTING to work that much is madness.
.
Too old for Analyst position? (Originally Posted: 12/30/2010)
Hi,
I would be glad to hear your views on the following thoughts:
I'm about to graduate with a MSc.-degree in summer 2011 and I'm happy to have a BB M&A-Analyst offer as well as a MBB Consultancy- offer as an Associate on the table, both located in Europe.
I interned in both firms, however, not as an M&A-intern at the BB. In terms of working in finance and in terms of breaking into PE,VC after 2-3 yrs. I favor the IB career, even if I don't pursue a long-term career at an IB (if I accept, I plan to stay only for the analyst time). However, what sets me aside in my opinion from other analysts is that I have a pretty different background in terms that I have already gained 3 yrs. FT work experience (non-financial) and that I will be 27.5 years old when I start at the IB. Although, I favor the more financial work related experience at the IB, I am somehow worried about "doing stuff at the age of 27 that are created for 23 year olds" and still being a 3rd yr. analyst at the age of 30. Though I understand that the career track at an IB is rather rigid, I don't like the idead that my previous experience is not valued at all which is different at MBB. There, I negotiated to start in the corporate finance practice which works close on PE-realated topics such as DD etc. Based on my experience from the internship at MBB, I know that I will be heavily challenged right from the beginning and I expect the tool set that I acquire at MBB to be "more valuable" at my current career stage and phase of life than the tool set that I acquire as an Analyst at a BB (mainly pitch books revision, modelling etc.). I think that I would go for the IB offer immediately if I was 23 yrs. or if they offered me an Associate position, but somehow I am not convinced by the the tasks an analyst position offers and that it is the right fit. Therefore, this is less an Consultancy -vs.- IB question, it is more a Too Old for An Analyst position question.
BTW: Breaking into PE doesn't mean exclusively KKR, Blackstone etc. to me.
Do you share my point of view or do I see things wrongly?
Thanks for your views!
I'm 23 and will be graduating (undergrad) at 26, and frankly I don't give a shit what other people think about my age, I just care if I get a job I like. Personally, I'm not interested in doing the 100 hour weeks at 26 (hell, I don't think I'd even be cut out for it now).
However, it really doesn't matter what we think, if you look back at what you wrote. You have to do what you want to do. Hours worked definitely comes into play in what you want to do. You can assume at a BB in NYC you're going to be working 80+ hours a week for 2 or 3 years as an analyst and then again for another couple of years as an associate. If you're willing to put that kind of effort into it, then kick ass, go for it. If you're interested in having a life/maintaining the life you've built since you left college, IB might not be the way to go. Just some thoughts for you, I'm obviously not in the industry, but I've been asking myself this same question for a while as well.
Best of luck to you, if you pick something you love doing that works with your lifestyle I'm sure it will work out!
Age limit ? (Originally Posted: 02/26/2009)
Hi,
I'm 24, graduated last year from Assas University (top university in France) with a master in management. I continue my studies in the Solvay Brussels School (1st BS in Belgium, top10 in Europe), with a bachelor and later a master in business engineering (with a specialization in corporate finance).
I'll got my graduate degree at 28. At this moment, I'll have 3 or 4 internships in finance (financial analyst, structured finance, M&A), but only two similar graduate degrees and no real work experience other than internships.
Do you think that my age, 28, or my two degrees, could be a problem to apply for an analyst position in top IB in M&A ?
Thanks
Seems like you may be able to get in as an associate hire.
Associates are typically 28-32. Unless you look like you're 24, then perhaps you could try to come as an analyst given your lack of experience (no one is going to ask your age on an interview).
But they can still do the math and realize you're not 24 with all that schooling. Just go associate.
Depends on where you're trying to work. Analysts in London usually just turned 21 (they went to LSE or Oxbridge for 3 years). So you would definitely want to shoot for associate positions. In France, the typical background is grandes ecoles + 'big' DESS (Dauphine..) or magistere at Dauphine or Assas. So you would be only slightly older than the typical applicant but with a very atypical background.
I would aim for an associate position in London personally.
Actually the place doesn't matter. It could be UK, France, Belgium, USA, Luxembourg, ...
Is it really ok to apply to an associate position without any real work experience other than internships ?
It'll depend on how you sell yourself. 4 internships (some of lasting 6 months or so, I presume) adds up to something of a shortened analyst experience. Your plethora of postgraduate degrees should hopefully position you for an associate position.
Tropi, why don;t you consider starting your analyst sting now, while you are 24? Instead of spending 4 more years in the university, that is
Associates range from 28-32?
That is much older than ranges in other posts; I guess because we are talking about Europe now.
Anyone else knows about typical age ranges for associates in Europe?
24-32
Associates in Europe are way way younger than 28-32, I would say 24-28.
Just start working as soon as you can, why would you want to do 2 master programs? And I know Solvay program quite well; it's not comparable with a real MBA so associate positions might be difficult to get. But you can always try.
If you choose to continue your studies, please bear in mind that every interviewer will demand an explanation for doing 2 masters in a similar subject. And that's a difficult question to answer in my opinion.
I hope my advice helps, the best of luck.
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