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Surprisingly, I can't find many threads on this topic. There have been many threads on the banker's lifestyle, but not many threads on the trader's lifestyle.
We all know that the myth of models and bottles in banking is a lie. Getting girls has little to do with money, it's all about your game. We also agree that getting girls is one of the most fundamental male motivations. It really sucks when your 100 hours per week job gets in the way of getting girls.
If a trader only works 12 hours a day, he should have a much better work life balance right? He has the rest of the evening to work out, play some poker, go out, and spend time with girls? So traders should be much happier with their general life and sex life than bankers, provided that his PnL is going well.
I see bankers complaining about their lives, but I want to check out the situation on the S&T side. I want money but I also want girls and a good lifestyle.

1

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Comments (46)

  • FinancePun's picture

    Depends if the trader is holding overnight positions with his own money or job on the line. I'll admit to the occasional stress dream.

    "Dude, not trying to be a dick here, but your shop looks like a frontrunner for the cover of Better Boilerrooms & Chophouses or Bucketshop Quarterly."

    -Uncle Eddie

  • junkbondswap's picture

    Its tough to generalize because a lot of this depends on whether you are sellside/buyside, prop/flow, product, fund size, etc. I know several PM's and their moods are 100% dictated by their P&L to the point that if they had a bad day they go home and treat their families like shit only to show up the next night with toys and flowers after the market goes up 200 points. The lifestyle is incredibly demanding and there is a reason that many guys get burnt out. Sitting in front of 6 flashing screens for 8-12 hours a day in a stressful environment isnt exactly ideal either but I would choose it over working 100 hours a week in a job that requires turning pitchbooks, formatting working group lists, auditing models, and hours of wasted face time.

    My preference would be a value oriented or activist fund because then I could sit in my office reading research and discussing ideas with colleagues all day rather than deal with daily market vol.

  • dorsia reservations's picture

    The issue of getting girls has come up more than once lately. I've been everywhere of recent...out of school close 2 yrs now, so i remember what it was like in college, know how things work in terms of personalities on the street, etc. worked in BO, work in FO,etc. I saw a post a few weeks ago about some kid telling some girl that he worked in the BO and if she wasnt ok with it, he bounced. Or, some kid complaining that he was with "eastern european 9s and 10s" in college and is just settling for 6s now.

    Allow me to make this clear.

    The large majority of women in New York do not care that you work in Settlements, HR,mergers and Acquisitions, FICC prop trading, what have you. She may know your bank, but trust me, if you think something like telling a girl about your great trade in FX today is going to impress a woman, youre an idiot. By large majority I mean over 90% dont care. I feel like an old man at the tender age of 25 typing here, seeing how illogical what some of you have to say about the subject, for such smart kids otherwise. Throw monkey shit at me fine, I dont care. If you really think a girl is going to look past the fact that a) you have bad breath, b) you dress like a slob and are 40 lbs over weight, c) have no personality, because youre "a ballin banker", you need help. Being a banker doesnt make you "baller". You do. Do you actually think the average woman who works in advertising, PR, law, any other field etc. thinks what you do is any more than what she saw in 10 seconds of Ferris Bueller at the CBOE, or Wall St 2?

    Theres also zero chance a college kid was pulling "eastern european 9s and 10s". And chances are, you won't be either. I mean you may, and they may well like you if youre a "ballin MD at a PE shop", but you're all smart kids or you wouldnt be on here..you know why they're around you..... There are plenty of solid 8-9-10s that are around NY that with the right attitude and half a brain, you'll be able to talk to, and chill with, that are solid to date or hang out with.

    I know, I know.....you're different..."Nah bro I get mad numbers all the time, model level". wanna know a huge facet of a good trader? Being able to read through the bull.

    I forget the story that Uncle Eddie had about his friend that lived in some dump apartment but just met beautiful women all the time. I dont recall him being a banker or a trader. I'll say it a 3rd time, you're all smart and driven to be on here...Realize that being a "banker" or a "trader", or "working at Morgan", etc....isnt a substitute for not looking like a slob, having some confidence in yourself---you all kill yourself to make loads of $ and prestige and blah blah blah, act on the confidence that comes with the things youre killing yourself to achieve , and most importantly, having the cajones to actually man up and talk to the girl you want to.

    That all being said, trading does offer a better lifestyle, but as FinancePun said, there are going to be nights youre not going to sleep very well. You may not technically be working, but youll be thinking about it.

    I will end this by saying...go into trading or whatever you want to, for you. Not becuase you think it will get you women.

  • In reply to dorsia reservations
    futuretrader1999's picture

    dorsia reservations:
    The issue of getting girls has come up more than once lately. I've been everywhere of recent...out of school close 2 yrs now, so i remember what it was like in college, know how things work in terms of personalities on the street, etc. worked in BO, work in FO,etc. I saw a post a few weeks ago about some kid telling some girl that he worked in the BO and if she wasnt ok with it, he bounced. Or, some kid complaining that he was with "eastern european 9s and 10s" in college and is just settling for 6s now.

    Allow me to make this clear.

    The large majority of women in New York do not care that you work in Settlements, HR,mergers and Acquisitions, FICC prop trading, what have you. She may know your bank, but trust me, if you think something like telling a girl about your great trade in FX today is going to impress a woman, youre an idiot. By large majority I mean over 90% dont care. I feel like an old man at the tender age of 25 typing here, seeing how illogical what some of you have to say about the subject, for such smart kids otherwise. Throw monkey shit at me fine, I dont care. If you really think a girl is going to look past the fact that a) you have bad breath, b) you dress like a slob and are 40 lbs over weight, c) have no personality, because youre "a ballin banker", you need help. Being a banker doesnt make you "baller". You do. Do you actually think the average woman who works in advertising, PR, law, any other field etc. thinks what you do is any more than what she saw in 10 seconds of Ferris Bueller at the CBOE, or Wall St 2?

    Theres also zero chance a college kid was pulling "eastern european 9s and 10s". And chances are, you won't be either. I mean you may, and they may well like you if youre a "ballin MD at a PE shop", but you're all smart kids or you wouldnt be on here..you know why they're around you..... There are plenty of solid 8-9-10s that are around NY that with the right attitude and half a brain, you'll be able to talk to, and chill with, that are solid to date or hang out with.

    I know, I know.....you're different..."Nah bro I get mad numbers all the time, model level". wanna know a huge facet of a good trader? Being able to read through the bull.

    I forget the story that Uncle Eddie had about his friend that lived in some dump apartment but just met beautiful women all the time. I dont recall him being a banker or a trader. I'll say it a 3rd time, you're all smart and driven to be on here...Realize that being a "banker" or a "trader", or "working at Morgan", etc....isnt a substitute for not looking like a slob, having some confidence in yourself---you all kill yourself to make loads of $ and prestige and blah blah blah, act on the confidence that comes with the things youre killing yourself to achieve , and most importantly, having the cajones to actually man up and talk to the girl you want to.

    That all being said, trading does offer a better lifestyle, but as FinancePun said, there are going to be nights youre not going to sleep very well. You may not technically be working, but youll be thinking about it.

    I will end this by saying...go into trading or whatever you want to, for you. Not becuase you think it will get you women.

    +1 if I had some monkey credits

    IVY for Life

  • RagnarDanneskjold's picture

    I agree with comments above in that you have to be more specific. What type of trader? ie What type of firm? and what desk? These are the two big questions that come to mind.

    The whole models and bottles thing really pisses me off, period. It's beaten to death in this forum. Your not your job. Women generally gravitate towards successful men, and finance conveys that. That's it. Finance guys are a dime a dozen in NYC, and many of them are socially inept and insecure tools. If you do run into a girl who's completely sold on the fact that your a finance guy, you'd better bring your own condoms because the ones she has at her place will probably have pinholes in them.

    I agree OP, carry yourself well, be confident and friendly, and you'll be more than fine....

    As for your original question, I'm on a commodity desk (energies) at a HF. If your interested in what my day is like, I'll give you a breakdown.

  • talebi818's picture

    Day in the life of a commodities desk trader.

    Go.

  • In reply to RagnarDanneskjold
    rickyross's picture

    RagnarDanneskjold:
    I agree with comments above in that you have to be more specific. What type of trader? ie What type of firm? and what desk? These are the two big questions that come to mind.

    The whole models and bottles thing really pisses me off, period. It's beaten to death in this forum. Your not your job. Women generally gravitate towards successful men, and finance conveys that. That's it. Finance guys are a dime a dozen in NYC, and many of them are socially inept and insecure tools. If you do run into a girl who's completely sold on the fact that your a finance guy, you'd better bring your own condoms because the ones she has at her place will probably have pinholes in them.

    I agree OP, carry yourself well, be confident and friendly, and you'll be more than fine....

    As for your original question, I'm on a commodity desk (energies) at a HF. If your interested in what my day is like, I'll give you a breakdown.

    Curious do you guys take many analysts from nat res IB groups or is it mostly ex-industry guys or those that have worked on energy desks elsewhere?

    People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.

  • In reply to RagnarDanneskjold
    Walkio's picture

    RagnarDanneskjold:
    I agree with comments above in that you have to be more specific. What type of trader? ie What type of firm? and what desk? These are the two big questions that come to mind.

    The whole models and bottles thing really pisses me off, period. It's beaten to death in this forum. Your not your job. Women generally gravitate towards successful men, and finance conveys that. That's it. Finance guys are a dime a dozen in NYC, and many of them are socially inept and insecure tools. If you do run into a girl who's completely sold on the fact that your a finance guy, you'd better bring your own condoms because the ones she has at her place will probably have pinholes in them.

    I agree OP, carry yourself well, be confident and friendly, and you'll be more than fine....

    As for your original question, I'm on a commodity desk (energies) at a HF. If your interested in what my day is like, I'll give you a breakdown.

    This would be much appreciated.

  • YouMyBoyBlue's picture

    Going after attractive women, who doesn't?

    Selecting a job because of it, is silly in my opinion. I chose to pursue Trading because I think I'll enjoy it and it has been one of very few things that have genuinely grabbed my interest, that also doubles as a viable career.

    Not everyone can be an NBA superstar and get paid crazy money to play a game they love as a job. However, you can find a job you like, be happy in that job, and get paid well. That should be the target.

    Anybody going after a job with the idea that getting it will get them "models and bottles" is:

    A) Insecure, because they are basing their entire self-worth on the acquisition of said models and bottles

    B) Misleading themselves, because as mentioned before in this thread, most women don't just go after paychecks and the ones that do are usually crazy

    C) Incredibly short-sighted

    It's a bi-product of doing a job you enjoy, not the sole reason for doing it.

  • couchy's picture

    lol I'd say dating is like cold calling.. complete numbers game.

    Just gotta approach a lot of girls just like how we approach lots of boutiques.

    Oh and just figure out how to get into asian clubs. Asian girls can be so easy to get. Then go for art school girls, jesus those can be easy too.

  • dorsia reservations's picture

    One last point.

    This was asked to me by a friend of mine about how traders make a lot of money so they always have beautiful women around them.

    Youre missing the point if thats what you're thinking. Think its a suprise most traders are ex-military, ex-athlete, and are seen as having guts, etc....? Meaning they can handle fear, pressure, and most importantly, negative feedback (rejection).....

    Sound familiar to qualities needed to talk to an attractive woman?

  • monty09's picture

    I am a commodities trader so any direct questions can come my way....

    I like to win, dont mind earning it and work hard... i also played baseball in college... i didnt have trouble with girls when i was broke or now that I have some $$.... end of day your job does not make you who you are.. and if it does you need to grow a pair...

  • thedude's picture

    some sell side traders leave 30 mins after the close of the market. it's pretty low stress and the hours are incredible. then again they will never be rich. I wouldn't want to do it unless I already had a family and was already committed to living in the burbs.

  • In reply to thedude
    futuretrader1999's picture

    thedude:
    some sell side traders leave 30 mins after the close of the market. it's pretty low stress and the hours are incredible. then again they will never be rich. I wouldn't want to do it unless I already had a family and was already committed to living in the burbs.

    What?
    This post has gaping holes in so many ways.

    IVY for Life

  • In reply to futuretrader1999
    BankMonkey21's picture

    futuretrader1999:
    dorsia reservations:
    The issue of getting girls has come up more than once lately. I've been everywhere of recent...out of school close 2 yrs now, so i remember what it was like in college, know how things work in terms of personalities on the street, etc. worked in BO, work in FO,etc. I saw a post a few weeks ago about some kid telling some girl that he worked in the BO and if she wasnt ok with it, he bounced. Or, some kid complaining that he was with "eastern european 9s and 10s" in college and is just settling for 6s now.

    Allow me to make this clear.

    The large majority of women in New York do not care that you work in Settlements, HR,mergers and Acquisitions, FICC prop trading, what have you. She may know your bank, but trust me, if you think something like telling a girl about your great trade in FX today is going to impress a woman, youre an idiot. By large majority I mean over 90% dont care. I feel like an old man at the tender age of 25 typing here, seeing how illogical what some of you have to say about the subject, for such smart kids otherwise. Throw monkey shit at me fine, I dont care. If you really think a girl is going to look past the fact that a) you have bad breath, b) you dress like a slob and are 40 lbs over weight, c) have no personality, because youre "a ballin banker", you need help. Being a banker doesnt make you "baller". You do. Do you actually think the average woman who works in advertising, PR, law, any other field etc. thinks what you do is any more than what she saw in 10 seconds of Ferris Bueller at the CBOE, or Wall St 2?

    Theres also zero chance a college kid was pulling "eastern european 9s and 10s". And chances are, you won't be either. I mean you may, and they may well like you if youre a "ballin MD at a PE shop", but you're all smart kids or you wouldnt be on here..you know why they're around you..... There are plenty of solid 8-9-10s that are around NY that with the right attitude and half a brain, you'll be able to talk to, and chill with, that are solid to date or hang out with.

    I know, I know.....you're different..."Nah bro I get mad numbers all the time, model level". wanna know a huge facet of a good trader? Being able to read through the bull.

    I forget the story that Uncle Eddie had about his friend that lived in some dump apartment but just met beautiful women all the time. I dont recall him being a banker or a trader. I'll say it a 3rd time, you're all smart and driven to be on here...Realize that being a "banker" or a "trader", or "working at Morgan", etc....isnt a substitute for not looking like a slob, having some confidence in yourself---you all kill yourself to make loads of $ and prestige and blah blah blah, act on the confidence that comes with the things youre killing yourself to achieve , and most importantly, having the cajones to actually man up and talk to the girl you want to.

    That all being said, trading does offer a better lifestyle, but as FinancePun said, there are going to be nights youre not going to sleep very well. You may not technically be working, but youll be thinking about it.

    I will end this by saying...go into trading or whatever you want to, for you. Not becuase you think it will get you women.

    +1 if I had some monkey credits

    +1 to you my man

    I Got a dollar and a dream...

  • In reply to futuretrader1999
    thedude's picture

    futuretrader1999:

    What?
    This post has gaping holes in so many ways.

    how so? someone calls you up and tells you to buy something and a price or range. you plug the order through an algo and press go. its fucking low stress, and they don't make boat loads of money, therefore I would live in the burbs where less can go farther. finally i know several who pull off 9-5 hours, which again is nice if you have a family. Ya, lots of holes.

    NOW TAKE A LAP.

  • In reply to thedude
    justin88's picture

    thedude:
    some sell side traders leave 30 mins after the close of the market. it's pretty low stress and the hours are incredible. then again they will never be rich. I wouldn't want to do it unless I already had a family and was already committed to living in the burbs.

    you're an idiot, sell side traders can pull in ridiculous bank, and they do it easier and with less stress than buy side traders.

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  • baddebt88's picture

    thedude> You work in this industry? What you are describing is what a broker. Brokers =/= traders/market makers.

    If they were a market maker, when that individual calls they would ask for a market and then lift the offer in order to buy. This means the market maker is now short which s/he can either offset in the market/another client if its favorable or hold it in their book. Most sell-side traders I know (FI dept/option MM shops) have huge books where they take a lot of directional risk.

    Learn how this industry works before posting.

    As for the topic of getting girls> Jesus, did you all join the industry because you wanted to get laid? If so, you are in it for the wrong reasons. You will get laid more being a bartender than by being a trader. You should want to do this job because you are passionate about it and want to win.

  • thedude's picture

    alright you win. most sell side traders are all absurdly wealthy. especially the equity ones i was referencing.

  • ambition56's picture

    can we stray off the getting girls thing for a little bit?

    I'm curious about the mentality of a trader when making a large personal purchase? Because his PnL is pretty volatile compared to other industries like banking, medicine and law, will he shy away from huge mortgages that require a pretty steady cash flow? Will he refrain from making grandiose purchases to save up for a rainy day(fin. reg loses him his job or his book blows up)

  • baddebt88's picture

    a) you didn't reference you were talking about equity traders. This group also includes options desks, structured desks, HFT, special situations, converts etc. Trading floors are large. Don't generalize based on the role of a few people.
    b) most vanilla equity flow nowadays goes through algos (electronic desks etc). they aren't traders in the sense we are talking about here.

    way to use definition loopholes to make your point. you look into being a lawyer?

  • thedude's picture

    I guess when a phone in my office 3 minutes ago rang with a "Trader" from Citadel asking my "Trader" to buy 1,000,000 shares of a stock everyone on both side was just smoking crack. Or maybe at the open when Third Point called up and asked to buy 200,000 of another stock through our "Trader". Bunch of loons those hedge fund guys are using loopholes to define traders.

    I apologize.

  • baddebt88's picture

    Read what I wrote about electronic desks. Those "traders" might have the title but at the end of the day if you don't manage risk, you aren't a trader you are a broker. What a trader on an vanilla equity/electronic desk doesn't resemble what a trader in a credit/rates/structured desk does. The latter ones are also sell-side traders...you think their job is as easy as plugging a price in an algo and going home 30 mins post market close? Hell what is market close for the option fx guy who is carrying risk 24/7?

  • In reply to thedude
    leveRAGE.'s picture

    thedude:
    I guess when a phone in my office 3 minutes ago rang with a "Trader" from Citadel asking my "Trader" to buy 1,000,000 shares of a stock everyone on both side was just smoking crack. Or maybe at the open when Third Point called up and asked to buy 200,000 of another stock through our "Trader". Bunch of loons those hedge fund guys are using loopholes to define traders.

    I apologize.

    why are you so bitter? pissed you ended up in ops instead of trading? i guess id be upset too...

  • thedude's picture

    i am not a trader num nuts. I do sales and ib. Our sell side traders have pretty fucking easy job's and make lower-mid 6 figures. that's all i was saying. Is a buy-side equity trader at a hedge fund, who essentially spends his day talking to my sell side trader, a trader?

  • futuretrader1999's picture

    wow u must be at some bullshit ibank (what do u mean sales and ib)
    pick one

    the dude (please go read liar's poker so u at least get a rudimentary sense of the business)

    IVY for Life

  • Art Vandelay's picture

    thedude: you're talking about equities sales-traders, who don't take on risk; all they do is reroute large orders to exchanges and take a commission. they use the algorithms you mentioned to execute said orders in such a way that they [a] cause minimal disturbances to the market; [b] achieve the best price for their clients. so, they are not traders in the traditional sense, despite having the word "trader" in their title; they are execution specialists.

  • In reply to derivstrading
    Revsly's picture

    derivstrading:
    baddebt88:
    Hell what is market close for the option fx guy who is carrying risk 24/7?

    When they pass the book on to the next time zone.

    FX books are generally passed from Asia to London to New York

    Correct, I work from 6:45-5:15 normally (London), could be later if it's a wild day.

    Jack: They're all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.
    -30 Rock

  • leveredarb's picture

    Excuse the semi hijack, not arguing either side here, but out of curiosity, why out of all places, is there such a strong sentiment on WSO that women do not care about money? I don't care for either side of the argument, just puzzled why WSO would have this particular view.

  • blastoise's picture

    women care about money after the 1st divorce

  • In reply to ambition56
    justin88's picture

    ambition56:
    I'm curious about the mentality of a trader when making a large personal purchase? Because his PnL is pretty volatile compared to other industries like banking, medicine and law, will he shy away from huge mortgages that require a pretty steady cash flow? Will he refrain from making grandiose purchases to save up for a rainy day(fin. reg loses him his job or his book blows up)

    Depends on the trader, but yes one cannot spend the same way someone with a more steady cash flow does.

    One approach is to live off of last year's bonus this year (plus salary, if you get it). Another approach is live a little more aggressively if you're having a good year; this is riskier clearly.

    Also, REALLY LARGE mortgages (multiple millions) aren't that common. Only the first million's interest is tax-deductible (plus another $100k in HELOC), and traders generally too smart to push the limits of mortgage debt/income ratios. That said, one good year and you can buy with cash...

  • In reply to justin88
    awm55's picture

    dabanobo:
    ambition56:
    I'm curious about the mentality of a trader when making a large personal purchase? Because his PnL is pretty volatile compared to other industries like banking, medicine and law, will he shy away from huge mortgages that require a pretty steady cash flow? Will he refrain from making grandiose purchases to save up for a rainy day(fin. reg loses him his job or his book blows up)

    Depends on the trader, but yes one cannot spend the same way someone with a more steady cash flow does.

    One approach is to live off of last year's bonus this year (plus salary, if you get it). Another approach is live a little more aggressively if you're having a good year; this is riskier clearly.

    Also, REALLY LARGE mortgages (multiple millions) aren't that common. Only the first million's interest is tax-deductible (plus another $100k in HELOC), and traders generally too smart to push the limits of mortgage debt/income ratios. That said, one good year and you can buy with cash...

    I've always wondered about the mortgage situation of some of my colleagues and how much equity they saved up to put into their home. Does anyone have any idea about the size of the mortgages some of these guys take on, I have never had the balls to ask?

  • ambition56's picture

    I like where this conversation is going... I was wondering if politicians are trying to tax bonuses up the ass, why not just classify bonuses as commissions instead? Surely, car salesmen and real estate brokers wouldn't stand getting taxed 50% on their commissions.

  • In reply to FinancePun
    D M's picture

    FinancePun:

    "Dude, not trying to be a dick here, but your shop looks like a frontrunner for the cover of Better Boilerrooms & Chophouses or Bucketshop Quarterly."

    Sidebar: awesome signature. Prop to Uncle E, as well, of course.

    "You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
    "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

  • trade4size's picture

    Ok assholes im here!

    Lol this thread is a joke at this point... yes there are brokers out there that have layup business where all they do is put the order into an algo and let the computer do the rest but those guys are really few and far between... They tend to be either at the very very top of their game. Trust me you can hate on those guys all you want but thats all your doing is hating because you wish you were making 5 million a year to put orders into an algo.

    The vast majority of equity sales-traders are at constant mercy of their clients and doing everything they can to be proactive to build their business. This involves keeping up with the market, getting information from other clients, working orders, networking to find new clients, and a ton of other things. Most orders involve some crapola illiquid name that the client doesnt want to trade or put in the machine themselves.

    As for the hours.... 9-5 sales-traders are pikers. An EASY day for me is 5:30am-4:30pm.

    "Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

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