Trading Straight Out of College
I'm a junior interested in going into
trading in some bb such as JPM.(internship/full time)
I am currently a student in Columbia U. I am studying OR with a concentration is FE. But i will likely drop the FE concentration this year and take other classes such as "Game Theory" intead of "Database Structures" - something i would not be able to do if i were to stay FE concentrated- and spend more time reading (wsj,bloomberg, books etc) and trading my own capital.
This decision came about after this past summer where i got informational interviews wit traders.
I was told that my best chances were in trading CB, fixed income, derivatives and stat arb due to the fact that most equity and event driven traders are brought up from IB.
I would be much appreciate it if some of you could share with me your views/thoughts/knowledge on the following inquiries:
1)Is it possible to go straight into the buy side? if not what would be a normal way of ending up at the buyside assuming i do not plan to IB.
2)Though i will drop the FE concentration, i plan to follow the FE curriculumn almost perfectly apart from 1 or 2 classes. This i hope will allow me to write on my cv that i majored in OR but took the FE track (and not FE concentrated). any thoughts on this?
3) general thoughts/advice?
OR at Columbia is a great program (Sigman/Whitt/Bienstock etc.)- but if it is 1 or 2 more courses, why not do the FE concentration? Also stat arb is incredibly programming intensive, so that it a tough area to get into unless one has a lot of software design experience...
you'll be in good shape for just about any FICC desk/converts... really try to master the material in your stochastics class which will give you the background to get into Shreve II (the standard graduate text like Hull, but for more quantitative people). Once you're done Shreve II you can get into Karatzas and Shreve, which is only truly understood by a few hundred people in the financial industry (I only have a vague understanding of it and I got through the first year graduate sequence in measure theory/functional analysis).
Thanks for the reply mike.
i don't think our program gets into Shreve and the Co. mentioned.
I guess if stat arb is programming intense i will avoid it. i personally am not a fan of it and can't see myself enjoying it in the future.
I am doing the FE concentration... just not 'officially.' i will still write that i took the FE 'track'
The reason why i want to drop it is because, by staying concentrated pretty much all of my courses will be predetermined. and i will not have time to take "Game Theory" ( i was told it would be helpful?!). i will also not have the time to keep up with whats going on in the rest of the world, for i must keep my GPA over a certain minimum, plus i would not get the oppertunity to read and trade on my own.
To be absolutly frank, i am not too knowledgable about trading and am hunting around for more information. I was advised to look into this by the CIO of JP Morgan Asia Pacific (Prop Trading, EM Macro) when i told him the following:
1) i don't want to be a quant 2) i am a very good poker player (absolutely love this game) 3) would much prefer to have as little quant in my life as possible.
4)I felt as if going into IB would such a waste of a major and hardwork in college.
would much appreciate it if you could help me answer these questions/thoughts :
1) (i am an undergraduate) what internship/fulltime job straight out of college should i be aiming for? is it even possible to get into the buy side right away?
2) 110% sure i do not want to get pushed into Strategy/Structuring/Sell if possible. OR am i just being too picky as a fresh college grad out of college?
thanks again!
1) It is possible but highly unlikely you will get a buyside job out of college. Your best shot outside of campus recruiting if you go to a target school will be something non-traditional like cold-calling somebody with a good trade idea, etc. It will be a longshot but it is doable and i have heard quite a few good stories.
2) You are being to picky, but so what. If you really want to work on the buyside then go work on the buyside in any capacity possible. I have never been a fan of working at something you dont want to do for 3 years just because it might lead to a job you want down the road. I have worked on the buyside for my whole career and i've done everything from reconcile to trade discrepencies, to calculating a firms P&L everyday, to being an analyst, to actually running money...that gives me a big edge over people who come from the sell-side and dont really ever understand the nuts and bolts of the business of running a hedge fund/asset management firm. Experience is a big plus if u can work hard enuff to progress, so just get your foot in the door if u really want it.
(JP seems to offer a trading buyside option for summer interns?)
Finally, i would appreciate it if someone experienced could help me out one final time.
it seems as if there are many things i could choose to specialize in, a couple of years into working BUT just looking at the summer of Junior Year and first job after Senior year what in your opinion should i be getting myself into given these factors:
1) OR (following FE track) GPA 3.4 Columbia U. (trading. i hope this is true.
4) I don't see myself as some super star who will take short cuts. I am good enough to understand and perform hard FE quant shit, but can think of at least 20 ppl in just my year capable of 'pawning' me. BUT, i am confident in my abilities nevertheless. I see myself taking my time, learning the ropes and enjoying myself.
5) i do not know how else to say this but, Im good with ppl. love socializing, dealing with humanity etc etc etc.
Your opinions and thoughts would be much much appreciated!
thanks in advance,
p
p.s "I think you should try to get a job in ____________ for this summer and when you graduate try to get a foot into _____________________ and from what i can muster about your from the given info above i think _____________ would be a good place for you."
3) Love poker. Live for the thrill of managing risk. Was told i could get my daily fix from trading. i hope this is true.
you wont
"I think you should try to get a job at a proprietary trading shop_____ for this summer and when you graduate try to get a foot into _____hedge funds/other prop shops________ and from what i can muster about your from the given info above i think ___optiver/jane street/FNYS/DRW/Wolverine/citadel/de.shaw______ would be a good place for you _____if you can get in____________."
...i told you i think you should try to get your foot in the door in any way possible at a reputable buyside firm. Do you need me to provide a list of every firm in the World that fits this criteria?
To fill in the second part of your Mad Libs game: From what i can muster from above, ________"any firm that would be kind enuff to hire you since your qualifications are somewhere between zero and bubcous"____ would be a good place for you to ______"do whatever anyone including the secretaries asks you to do for a couple of years and pray somebody takes a liking to you"____ if you can get ______"them to actually write you a check that clears"____.
Numquam et rerum officia temporibus aspernatur voluptas. Voluptas consectetur debitis quibusdam hic qui accusamus. Voluptatem sed reiciendis harum soluta. Et cupiditate quia quod velit ratione. Veniam nihil non ea voluptatum.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...