10/21/11

Hi - need your advice about a problem I'm facing.

I summered at a mm investment bank and now I'm working there full-time. When I applied for the summer, they requested unofficial copys of my transcript, copied and pasted into a word document. I changed some of my grades from a B to an A from my freshman year and they never checked when I worked there over the summer. Now I'm working there full-time and a month into the job, HR is asking for official transcripts to confirm that I've graduated (I'm not even sure if they still have my application from two years ago on hand or if they're going to compare it). Should I:

1) Tell HR about it.
2) Forge a copy of my official transcript.
3) Quit and find another job to save myself from the embarssment.

Thanks.

Comments (122)

Best Response
10/21/11

The fucking balls on these colleges, I swear to God.

Kid, you've got what it takes to go far in this business. Deal with HR the way you'd deal with a woman who caught you cheating: Deny, Deny, Deny, Accuse. Deny the charges three times and then accuse HR of some sort of harassment and threaten to sue. Problem solved.

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10/21/11

1. You're an idiot.
2. Just send them your official transcript and see what happens.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."

10/21/11

Can't you just give them your diploma and see what happens?

10/21/11

Rofl...you got some balls man

But in all seriousness, I doubt HR will go over your transcript and double check the grades. They'll just verify that you didn't fuck up and failed to graduate.
Don't do this shit ever again tho

10/21/11

Also, the fact that you're even considering to forge the official transcript is alarming as fuck. You know this can lead to some serious jeffrey chiang/etc shit, right?

10/21/11

I'll pick 2) Forge a copy of my official transcript.
Is that the correct answer?
And you should start looking for another job just in case they find out soon and fire you.
I would never pick 1) as 3) is a superior option to it in all cases.

To be honest, I think there's a lot of potential in you to get to the top, especially in finance. I agree that this particular move was a bit stupid though - next time, lie about something that cannot be easily verified and you'll be fine.

10/21/11

You're a piece of shit.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

10/21/11

wow....dont hold back how you feel ok?

Beast

10/21/11

You're an asshat. Send them your official transcript or if you can, try and find another opportunity in this dreadful recruiting season with your offer.

If you admit it to HR - unless all the MDs loved you and you were a superstar intern - you're as good as gone. And Do NOT forge another transcript - you'll be lower than scum. Your word and reputation will be pretty tarnished even before you start your career, and if the senior people at your Chicago MM bank have some serious connections and want to ruin your life, you'll be joining the ranks of Aleksey Vayner and Jeffrey Chiang.

10/21/11

Let's give the boy a break here.

Banking is absolutely crawling with slimy, lying, cheating cocksuckers and you all know it.

Since he fessed up and admitted he is a lying sack of shit, let's see what we can do for him. Don't tell HR. That's like going to traffic court and pleading guilty. You're only a month in so it is too early to quit. That leaves you some options:

1. Keep putting off HR about the transcripts
2. See if your school can validate your graduation without a transcript
3. Say that you are contesting a grade in one of your courses (this is technically true) and that is holding up release of transcript but offer option 2

note none of these involve forgery or more outright lying. your firm cannot legally get your transcripts: they can, however, verify graduation and major indepndent of you.

obviously, you dumb bunny, you have not been following the news of many high-profile CV-fakers over the past few years, so every firm does an anal-probe caliber background check now. if you had been reading the papers instead of fucking up your classes you might know this.

good luck!

10/21/11

lol

hahahahaha

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Get busy living

10/21/11

Fuck, i Should never have done it, and I regret doing, I should have applied and if I got an interview, told them why I fucked up those courses, but I know that I wouldn't even gotten an interview if I did that - which doesn't excuse it. I'm never going to do something like this again, cause every since I started, I've been thinking about it.

I think the best option for me is to quit (not sure what reason I'm going to provide yet), and look for another job somewhere else in another finance stream, but I'm not sure how tough this will be given the job market. They'll probably ask why I didn't go back to the firm, etc. But I think my reputation is pretty important starting off.

10/21/11

I don't see what the big deal is.

The best thing to do was to say" oh wow it was definitely a typo, must have gotten confused are there any other issues with it?"

Then ask to see the original copy you made vs the official and say oh wow I got three of em wrong, hopefully this won't happen in any of my work, is there any other issues that you(HR) found?

10/21/11

Don't quit these people are idiots

10/21/11

Assuming this isn't a hilarious troll:

First, I probably don't need to tell you that you did something incredibly disgraceful- to the point that I don't even feel I should be helping you. However, in the spirit of forgiveness, a possible solution is to give HR a confirmation of graduation, alternatively called "Enrollment Verification". This is a document that shows the number of hours you took each semester, the date of graduation, and the degree earned. It will be notarized and mailed directly to HR, not you, as a security mechanism (much in the same way letters of recommendation are delivered)- the last thing you need is more temptation to forge that you earned 3 Ph.D's. This document should satisfy them- it is likely they asked for an official transcript to confirm your graduation because they don't know the precise name of this form. I would also recommend that you confess at some time in the future- clear the air. This lie will become an albatross at some point.

Bene qui latuit, bene vixit- Ovid

10/21/11

Bro, chill the fuck out -- you fucked up and you cant go back. Give your official transcript and see what happens.

In reply to blastoise
10/21/11
blastoise:

The best thing to do was to say" oh wow it was definitely a typo, must have gotten confused are there any other issues with it?"

Very likely. MMs really don't have very thorough HR. Honestly, they're liable to hire that loose monkey in Ohio, I wouldn't worry about it if your group wants you.

BUT NEVER FUCKING DO SHIT LIKE THAT AGAIN. IN THE REAL WORLD, PERJURY IS A JAILABLE OFFENCE. DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY HIT THE SHITTER BECAUSE OF DISHONEST PEOPLE???

Ok, I'm done yelling at you. As a guy who had lousy grades and found a job HONESTLY, I'd admonish you to check yourself before you wreck yourself...there's no need to lie, it's a personality flaw that you'd best deal with young in life before you lie to the wrong person. For what it's worth though, take the job, do honest work, and donate some money to charity to offset the damage you did to your soul.

Oh, and I was serious about HR hiring baboons, chimps, and monekys....they're not too bright.

Get busy living

10/21/11

Let me tell you a story that will scare the shit out of you. I know a person who did this at my university. They forged transcripts and got a job out of it. When the employers received the official transcripts and noticed the deviation between the forged transcript and official transcript, they not only fired the guy, but also reported it to the university. The university then retracted this guy's degree. Moral of the story: getting caught can cost you much more than this job. Do with that what you will.

-MBP

10/21/11

At this point in the game, you are fucked. I suggest coming to work on Monday with a gun and start taking some hostages so you have leverage for further negotiations.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

In reply to manbearpig
10/21/11
manbearpig:

Let me tell you a story that will scare the shit out of you. I know a person who did this at my university. They forged transcripts and got a job out of it. When the employers received the official transcripts and noticed the deviation between the forged transcript and official transcript, they not only fired the guy, but also reported it to the university. The university then retracted this guy's degree. Moral of the story: getting caught can cost you much more than this job. Do with that what you will.

Wow, UofT doesn't dick around. As well they shouldn't! Actually Aleksey Vayner lied the shit out of his resume (including false claims of the status/rating of a supposed charity he started). Some people (like the committee of the charity regulation org.) called for his expulsion but Yale didn't do jack. And I don't recall Jeffrey Chiang getting disciplined by Univ of Texas either.

10/21/11

^ at my UG there was a guy there at the 60th reunion who bragged about cheating on a history exam. they withdrew his BA.

In reply to ivoteforthatguy
10/21/11
ivoteforthatguy:

^ at my UG there was a guy there at the 60th reunion who bragged about cheating on a history exam. they withdrew his BA.

This may be stupider than what the OP did...

10/21/11

Fuck why didn't I think of this

10/21/11

Ok, Don't quit and don't tell HR about it. After grades went out in University, I've had teachers change my grades from B's to A's, and I've had some change it the other way after they realized they made a mistake.

In reply to Edmundo Braverman
10/21/11
Edmundo Braverman:

Kid, you've got what it takes to go far in this business. Deal with HR the way you'd deal with a woman who caught you cheating: Deny, Deny, Deny, Accuse. Deny the charges three times and then accuse HR of some sort of harassment and threaten to sue. Problem solved.

This is awesome. If I had a twitter, I would follow you. But I don't have a twitter, because I am not gay.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

10/21/11

In all seriousness, this is not a big deal. If you simply input your transcript into word and only changed three B's to A's (which over a four year transcript isn't going to change an overall GPA by THAT much) you need to just claim some sort of typo or technological during the transition.

Nevertheless, don't admit anything.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

In reply to manbearpig
10/21/11
manbearpig:

Let me tell you a story that will scare the shit out of you. I know a person who did this at my university. They forged transcripts and got a job out of it. When the employers received the official transcripts and noticed the deviation between the forged transcript and official transcript, they not only fired the guy, but also reported it to the university. The university then retracted this guy's degree. Moral of the story: getting caught can cost you much more than this job. Do with that what you will.

Why did this guy get shit??? Meanwhile, OP didn't???
http://www.solarfeeds.com/wp-content/uploads/dude-...

Get busy living

In reply to Nefarious-
10/21/11
Nefarious-:
Edmundo Braverman:

Kid, you've got what it takes to go far in this business. Deal with HR the way you'd deal with a woman who caught you cheating: Deny, Deny, Deny, Accuse. Deny the charges three times and then accuse HR of some sort of harassment and threaten to sue. Problem solved.

This is awesome. If I had a twitter, I would follow you. But I don't have a twitter, because I am not gay.

HAHA! You just made my wife laugh out loud (she hates Twitter).

10/21/11

not true at all. jeffrey chiang did get disciplined from UT. actually, not UT specifically but McCombs I'm 99% sure didn't allow him to graduate with a bba. he graduated with only a ba in economics

In reply to arguewithatree
10/21/11
arguewithatree:

not true at all. jeffrey chiang did get disciplined from UT. actually, not UT specifically but McCombs I'm 99% sure didn't allow him to graduate with a bba. he graduated with only a ba in economics

He still graduated though.

10/21/11

Well there is a big long string of advice on here (and it arrived pretty darn quick too)...at the least you owe us all an update next week/whenever/whatever happens.

But dude, you said the city the bank is in (see above)...yes, there are tons of MMs, but I'm in that city and I have a pretty good idea of the one or two banks that actually might check transcripts...

If any IBD HR person sees this string, don't think they don't talk...you might want to edit your city naming...thats why I didn't use it above.

You have earned the grief and anguish you now feel.

In reply to Jack Campbell
10/21/11
Jack Campbell:

Well there is a big long string of advice on here (and it arrived pretty darn quick too)...at the least you owe us all an update next week/whenever/whatever happens.

But dude, you said the city the bank is in (see above)...yes, there are tons of MMs, but I'm in that city and I have a pretty good idea of the one or two banks that actually might check transcripts...

If any IBD HR person sees this string, don't think they don't talk...you might want to edit your city naming...thats why I didn't use it above.

You have earned the grief and anguish you now feel.

Or maybe he is just so on top of his game, he just said Chicago so you wouldn't look at NYC.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

In reply to Kanon
10/21/11
Kanon:
arguewithatree:

not true at all. jeffrey chiang did get disciplined from UT. actually, not UT specifically but McCombs I'm 99% sure didn't allow him to graduate with a bba. he graduated with only a ba in economics

He still graduated though.

.....and does not currently work in finance. Nor is it likely that he ever will.

Get busy living

10/21/11

Tell them you suffer from fuckfaceitis, claim discrimination, sue shit out of them.

In reply to UFOinsider
10/21/11
UFOinsider:
Kanon:
arguewithatree:

not true at all. jeffrey chiang did get disciplined from UT. actually, not UT specifically but McCombs I'm 99% sure didn't allow him to graduate with a bba. he graduated with only a ba in economics

He still graduated though.

.....and does not currently work in finance. Nor is it likely that he ever will.

I wonder if he's changed his name and moved out of the US to try his hand elsewhere.

10/21/11

Forge it and move on, nothing will happen and after you get your bonus revive the thread and tell each one of these asshats to blow you.

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10/21/11

Here's some advice "integrity first and always". Now here's some reality. If I started digging through these peoples background on here to see what crap popped up most would be fired within the next hour. especially the ones that are shitting on you with no advice. Do this send in the official transcript and say nothing. If you get fired, you get fired. Chalk that up to a heavy lesson learned. So be looking for that next job just in case. You seem like a fairly honest guy otherwise you would have never thought about it again.

Pray you don't get pinched!

10/21/11

Just submit it, they aren't going to check every grade because they won't care at all and it would take an unnecessary amount of effort. You can always play dumb.

Further, no one gives a shit wht you got in some undergrad class if you can do a good job (which it sounds like you've been doing.)

10/21/11

They won't compare them.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

10/21/11

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

-MBP

In reply to manbearpig
10/21/11
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

10/21/11

Delete the city name and some sensitive details

10/21/11

I think this is blown out of proportion entirely.

Though there's a severe downside here, it's a very low probability event. You vastly overestimate the competency of your HR reps, the overwhelmingly likely outcome is that they check to see you graduated and move-on. Just submit your resume and try your luck.

If you're still freaking-out, I think rls and Eddie have given the best advice so far...

10/21/11

you got balls kid. use them.

10/21/11

someone who knows what HR actually does need to chime in here...I really doubt they're diligent enough to go over your grades, seriously.

In reply to Vectors225
10/21/11
Vectors225:

someone who knows what HR actually does need to chime in here...I really doubt they're diligent enough to go over your grades, seriously.

HR's job:
http://www.tvparty.com/bgifs3/romper%20roomVA-ad4-...

As explained to me by very high level HR / recruiting personnel.

Get busy living

In reply to ivoteforthatguy
10/21/11

I disagree, this method sounds like a sure-fire way to subject yourself to greater scrutiny.

ivoteforthatguy:

Let's give the boy a break here.

Banking is absolutely crawling with slimy, lying, cheating cocksuckers and you all know it.

Since he fessed up and admitted he is a lying sack of shit, let's see what we can do for him. Don't tell HR. That's like going to traffic court and pleading guilty. You're only a month in so it is too early to quit. That leaves you some options:

1. Keep putting off HR about the transcripts
2. See if your school can validate your graduation without a transcript
3. Say that you are contesting a grade in one of your courses (this is technically true) and that is holding up release of transcript but offer option 2

note none of these involve forgery or more outright lying. your firm cannot legally get your transcripts: they can, however, verify graduation and major indepndent of you.

obviously, you dumb bunny, you have not been following the news of many high-profile CV-fakers over the past few years, so every firm does an anal-probe caliber background check now. if you had been reading the papers instead of fucking up your classes you might know this.

good luck!

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

10/21/11

Trying to present a diploma or anything else instead of official transcript will only raise more suspicion.
I'm not going to say that my advice is the best among here, but just send in the official transcript without tampering it. That's all you can, and all you SHOULD do.

10/21/11
In reply to Vectors225
10/21/11
Vectors225:

Trying to present a diploma or anything else instead of official transcript will only raise more suspicion.
I'm not going to say that my advice is the best among here, but just send in the official transcript without tampering it. That's all you can, and all you SHOULD do.

this

In reply to blastoise
10/21/11
blastoise:

Who is that girl Vectors225.

victoria kern

10/21/11

90% chance this is a troll. How many grades did you change? Were they in your major classes?

Send your transcript. If you lose your job, then you'll be out on the streets where you belong and balance has been restored.

10/21/11

If you literally just copied and pasted and shot off an email, I think its unlikely they will ever double check. I say give it a whirl.

10/21/11

Assuming this is troll, I would recommend picking number 2:

Forge your official transcript.

Photoshop has this thing called the Clone Stamp Tool. Read up on it.

10/21/11

submit, deny and look for another job
probably not a troll, since they would have probably said something about gpa rounding

In reply to Vectors225
10/21/11
Vectors225:
blastoise:

Who is that girl Vectors225.

victoria kern

that picture didn't pop up it was some monster from facebook

10/21/11

they just want to see if you graduated so send them the transcript and see what happens

10/21/11

I'd just apply to the rotational management training program with Tires Plus.

Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe those who are dedicated.

In reply to Kanon
10/21/11
Kanon:
UFOinsider:
Kanon:
arguewithatree:

not true at all. jeffrey chiang did get disciplined from UT. actually, not UT specifically but McCombs I'm 99% sure didn't allow him to graduate with a bba. he graduated with only a ba in economics

He still graduated though.

.....and does not currently work in finance. Nor is it likely that he ever will.

I wonder if he's changed his name and moved out of the US to try his hand elsewhere.

I actually met him a little while ago. He lives in the US, has not changed his name, and has a legitimate job (not ibanking, but relevant)
Surprising, right?

10/22/11

^ Legit job like with a F500 or something? News about him may not reach industry so he should count himself lucky if he was able to bounce back.

In reply to Kanon
10/22/11
Kanon:
UFOinsider:
Kanon:
arguewithatree:

not true at all. jeffrey chiang did get disciplined from UT. actually, not UT specifically but McCombs I'm 99% sure didn't allow him to graduate with a bba. he graduated with only a ba in economics

He still graduated though.

.....and does not currently work in finance. Nor is it likely that he ever will.

I wonder if he's changed his name and moved out of the US to try his hand elsewhere.

I'm sure he is successfully running his parents' restaurant

More is good, all is better

10/22/11

nah he works with an alright asset management firm. i mean, it's pretty good given what the alternatives could have been for him

10/22/11
10/22/11

Chill the fuck out and get a decent forgery done. They're not that expensive and at this point you're in so deep that it's going to be fatal to turn sissy. Remember what Nietzsche said, "The criminal is often not equal to his deed. Out of fear he makes it small and slanders it." You had the balls to pull off the initial fraud, you have to keep the game going. What kind of man will you be if you can't even execute a bluff when the pressure is on?

always move forward
never sleep
like a shark, bro

10/22/11

send the transcript odds are nothing will happen and as others have said just deny if it were to come out.

10/22/11

There is some seriously awful advice on this thread. Forge another transcript? Are you people seriously suggesting this?

-MBP

10/22/11
10/22/11

is the HR person a woman? if so take her out on a date and tell her to forget abt it

In reply to tiger89
10/22/11
tiger89:

is the HR person a woman? if so take her out on a date and tell her to forget abt it

you're such a sexist!

10/22/11

Question on a vaaaaguely related note. On my application we had to give predicted grades, my actual grade I achieved was a long way below what I predicted, but there were no lies at all on my application. Is there any chance of this being a problem?

10/22/11

UPDATE -

I told HR it would take me a week to get my official transcript from the university and that I would submit it by the end of next week or in two weeks.

I connected with an alum that I met with over the summer and he's starting a really small hedge fund, 75 million in assets with 3 other staff members. He had posted on the portal for an analyst position and I mentioned that I would apply. Just met up with him for coffee and he seemed interested in hiring. If I get the job, should I jump ship and start working for the HF and not submit the transcript or stick with the mm investment bank?

10/23/11

They're not going to verify. Relax already. You're giving HR st a MM place wayyyyyy too much credit.

Your nerves and paranoia will give you away long before your official transcript. Everyone already gave you the 'idiot' speech, so I'll refrain... But shit man, I hope you've grown up.

In reply to tiger89
10/23/11
tiger89:

is the HR person a woman? if so take her out on a date and tell her to forget abt it

Any dude who works HR is bound to be a fairy so this advice is universal. If this shlomo is serious about keeping his job I think it's pretty clear what he needs to do...

always move forward
never sleep
like a shark, bro

10/23/11

there's no legal penalty for falsifying your unofficial transcript (that's why it is UNofficial), but if you end up FORGING an official transcript, you will not only get your degree annulled, the university can chose to press charges.
Right now you may have to find another shop, but if you forge the transcript, you may have to find another line of work, once you are out of prison

More is good, all is better

10/24/11

I would just give them my official transcript.

it's harder for the HR to check it with your previous record than checking with the school, as some of the HR will just outsource the background check task, and those specialist will spot that right away.

In reply to THE PsYcHoLoGy
10/24/11
THE PsYcHoLoGy:

I'd just apply to the rotational management training program with Tires Plus.

Pun intended?

10/24/11

No way in hell should you forge anything. I would provide my transcript and its very likely they won't even corroborate with your unofficial scores. I doubt they even still posses your transcript as if they did, they wouldnt want confirmation of grades, but only graduation, which surely your diploma would do. They dont have your old transcripts so go ahead and give in your actual grades.

Morality is not your strong point if you're considering forgery so I guess you'll fit wherever you may end up but I would seriously consider the HF gig. Start-ups are usually a lot more fun and seeing as you like forging, cater to your creative talents.

Great Pacino clip btw, underrated movie.

In reply to Nefarious-
10/24/11
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that .

Same here.

I wish i had more feces to throw at that idiotic post.

In reply to user_
10/24/11
user_:

Can't you just give them your diploma and see what happens?

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

In reply to duffmt6
10/24/11
duffmt6:

1. You're an idiot.
2. Just send them your official transcript and see what happens.

1. Yes you are.

2. Yes, just try and see what happens. You're likely screwed, but if not I guess you learned your lesson anyways.

10/24/11

Anyone who seriously suggested that he forge another transcript is a moron.

10/25/11

If I were you I would try to provide them with a confirmation of your graduation only. Don;t you have a general graduation diploma without grades on it ? (we don't have grades usually in europe, we have transripts but we also have a general diploma provided to us separately). You need to find if HR is interested in the graduation certification or in the grades. Try to find anything that might be used to confirm your graudation rather than your grade.

10/25/11

hey since we are going down the road of serious felonies anyways, let's have someone suggest to the OP that he smash up all the backup email servers and burn down his bank in case HR printed a hard copy of that email.

In reply to zeropower
10/25/11
zeropower:
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that .

Same here.

I wish i had more feces to throw at that idiotic post.

Fine, the range that your GPA can be bumped up by this change is [0.075, 0.225]. I made some assumptions and came up with the middle of the range. In any case, it's a pretty noticeable change, which is the only point I was trying to make.

-MBP

In reply to manbearpig
10/25/11
manbearpig:
zeropower:
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that .

Same here.

I wish i had more feces to throw at that idiotic post.

Fine, the range that your GPA can be bumped up by this change is [0.075, 0.225]. I made some assumptions and came up with the middle of the range. In any case, it's a pretty noticeable change, which is the only point I was trying to make.

since he made this change as an underclassman, the effect is magnified: he was probably applying with 3 semesters in. 4 classes a semester, 12 classes, with 3 of those frauded up. even with 5 semesters as a junior, that's 15 classes with 3 classes frauded up. 25% or 20% of your transcript misrepresented. that's some fucking chutzpah.

In reply to Nefarious-
10/25/11
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that.

Btw, knowing the rest of his grades is irrelevant to the calculation.

-MBP

In reply to Edmundo Braverman
10/26/11
Edmundo Braverman:

The fucking balls on these colleges, I swear to God.

Kid, you've got what it takes to go far in this business. Deal with HR the way you'd deal with a woman who caught you cheating: Deny, Deny, Deny, Accuse. Deny the charges three times and then accuse HR of some sort of harassment and threaten to sue. Problem solved.

The legal industry must mourn your decision to go into S&T.

In reply to manbearpig
10/26/11
manbearpig:
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that.

Btw, knowing the rest of his grades is irrelevant to the calculation.

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

In reply to Macro Arbitrage
10/27/11
Macro Arbitrage:

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

What the FUCK are you talking about? There is zero chance you are an analyst if you don't understand that the rest of his grades and their weight will effect the overall discrepancy.

In reply to Nick G
10/27/11
Nick Gers:
Macro Arbitrage:

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

What the FUCK are you talking about? There is zero chance you are an analyst if you don't understand that the rest of his grades and their weight will effect the overall discrepancy.

Changing two B's to an A does not significantly alter one's GPA and certainly isn't worth the risk even if the rest of your transcript comprises of 1.0s.

In reply to Nick G
10/27/11
Nick Gers:
Macro Arbitrage:

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

What the FUCK are you talking about? There is zero chance you are an analyst if you don't understand that the rest of his grades and their weight will effect the overall discrepancy.

You're an idiot.

-MBP

10/27/11

You cannot assume each class is worth the same amount of credits; i.e. a Chem Lab is worth 4 credits vs a 3 credit A&S elective.... GPA is calculated by gradepoints / credit hours, not simply an average of the grades.

In reply to manbearpig
10/27/11
manbearpig:
Nick Gers:
Macro Arbitrage:

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

What the FUCK are you talking about? There is zero chance you are an analyst if you don't understand that the rest of his grades and their weight will effect the overall discrepancy.

You're an idiot.

You can just admit you are wrong. I'm sure "you're an idiot" is a powerful argument here against other members, but you'll have to do better than that with me. Others have already pointed out what you said was absolutely stupid. Why not just admit you were wrong?

10/27/11
10/27/11

When I was 21/22 I created an unofficial transcript and changed all my grades to get the score boosted from 2.5 GPA to 3.3 GPA, mostly out of desperation because I wasn't able to find a job (to get any interviews at all) with my GPA left off the transcript. With my unofficial fake transcript I landed a dream job. I resigned less than a month into my tenure there as I was miserable in the city and hated my job. With hat in hand I returned to my hometown and took a job for $35,000 per year at about 70 hours of work a week.

Point is we can sometimes get away with our character flaws but God or the universe or karma or whatever usually has a way of re-paying.

I disagree with the people here who call the guy a piece of shit. It sounds to me like something that was done in youthful immaturity and haste. It certaintly demonstrates a character flaw, but seeing the way others are treated on the road, on the street, etc. reminds me that those who live in glass houses ought not throw character stones.

In reply to Nick G
10/27/11
Nick Gers:
manbearpig:
Nick Gers:
Macro Arbitrage:

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

What the FUCK are you talking about? There is zero chance you are an analyst if you don't understand that the rest of his grades and their weight will effect the overall discrepancy.

You're an idiot.

You can just admit you are wrong. I'm sure "you're an idiot" is a powerful argument here against other members, but you'll have to do better than that with me. Others have already pointed out what you said was absolutely stupid. Why not just admit you were wrong?

I won't admit it because I'm not wrong. And you are, in fact, an idiot. My original comment was that knowing the other unchanged grades is irrelevant to the calculation. Knowing the weights of the unchanged grades is also irrelevant to the calculation. As long as you know the weights of the changed grades and the total credits earned in the degree, you can calculate the discrepancy.

-MBP

10/27/11

I would probably quit. It's better to quit before they find out so you can still use them on your resume. Either you quit before you get fired--and they will find out and fire you sooner or later--or you have the choice of leaving a gap on your resume (summer + however long it takes them to find you out) or having your next prospective employer call them and find out you're a liar and an idiot. No easy outs on this one.

10/27/11
In reply to manbearpig
10/27/11
manbearpig:

I won't admit it because I'm not wrong. And you are, in fact, an idiot. My original comment was that knowing the other unchanged grades is irrelevant to the calculation. Knowing the weights of the unchanged grades is also irrelevant to the calculation. As long as you know the weights of the changed grades and the total credits earned in the degree, you can calculate the discrepancy.

Fascinating.

So the other unchanged grades and their weight is irrelevant to the calculation? That is just absolutely retarded. It is shocking that I would even need to explain why.

10/28/11

Actually, this is bad but not that bad. Im sure people have done worse.

Give them your official transcript and don't stall. Don't need to look for another job yet.

In reply to Nick G
10/28/11
Nick Gers:
manbearpig:

I won't admit it because I'm not wrong. And you are, in fact, an idiot. My original comment was that knowing the other unchanged grades is irrelevant to the calculation. Knowing the weights of the unchanged grades is also irrelevant to the calculation. As long as you know the weights of the changed grades and the total credits earned in the degree, you can calculate the discrepancy.

Fascinating.

So the other unchanged grades and their weight is irrelevant to the calculation? That is just absolutely retarded. It is shocking that I would even need to explain why.

Can someone with even the faintest iota of mathematical maturity please explain to this moron what I'm talking about?

-MBP

In reply to Macro Arbitrage
10/28/11
Macro Arbitrage:
manbearpig:
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that.

Btw, knowing the rest of his grades is irrelevant to the calculation.

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

I understand what you are saying; however, a 120 hour transcript is not that cut and dry. None of us are aware of pass/fail classes, 1 hours classes, 2 hour classes, 3 hour classes or 4 hour classes. These are variables that are not being accounted for.

Calculating a true GPA is not simply taking the average of grades.

This calculator does a good of job of explaining my point:
http://www.back2college.com/gpa.htm

For example, if you have take 4 classes: Two of which are 3 hour courses and the other two are 4 hour courses.

You receive two A's in the 3 hour courses and two B's in the 4 hour courses, your GPA will be 3.43. Now, if you change the two 4 hour courses you received B's in to 3 hour courses and recalculate, your GPA goes from a 3.43 to a 3.5.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

In reply to manbearpig
10/28/11
manbearpig:
Nick Gers:
manbearpig:

I won't admit it because I'm not wrong. And you are, in fact, an idiot. My original comment was that knowing the other unchanged grades is irrelevant to the calculation. Knowing the weights of the unchanged grades is also irrelevant to the calculation. As long as you know the weights of the changed grades and the total credits earned in the degree, you can calculate the discrepancy.

Fascinating.

So the other unchanged grades and their weight is irrelevant to the calculation? That is just absolutely retarded. It is shocking that I would even need to explain why.

Can someone with even the faintest iota of mathematical maturity please explain to this moron what I'm talking about?

Why can't you explain it? Because you are fucking wrong.

MBP, you are without a doubt the most misinformed, venomous member of this site. Nothing you do on this site provides value or offers insight into anything. You resort to nothing more than ad hominem attacks (not even clever or intelligent ones at that). Sift through this thread alone and you will see just how immature you are.

This is the last time I will address you as you have shown that it is a complete waste of time.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

In reply to Nefarious-
10/28/11
Nefarious-:
Macro Arbitrage:
manbearpig:
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that.

Btw, knowing the rest of his grades is irrelevant to the calculation.

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

I understand what you are saying; however, a 120 hour transcript is not that cut and dry. None of us are aware of pass/fail classes, 1 hours classes, 2 hour classes, 3 hour classes or 4 hour classes. These are variables that are not being accounted for.

Calculating a true GPA is not simply taking the average of grades.

This calculator does a good of job of explaining my point:
http://www.back2college.com/gpa.htm

For example, if you have take 4 classes: Two of which are 3 hour courses and the other two are 4 hour courses.

You receive two A's in the 3 hour courses and two B's in the 4 hour courses, your GPA will be 3.43. Now, if you change the two 4 hour courses you received B's in to 3 hour courses and recalculate, your GPA goes from a 3.43 to a 3.5.

Exactly.

Thank you for having more patience than I do and taking the time to actually explain this to him. How could someone possibly be in this field and not know this?

10/28/11

Wow, I am absolutely stunned that I need to do this. Okay fine, here goes:

Let T be the total credits earned in your degree.
Let us also assume that n courses were completed to earn the degree.
Let g_i be the grade point earned in course i (i.e. if a B was earned in course 3, g_3 = 3.0)
Let c_i be the number of credits earned for completing course i

Then your GPA is:
actual_gpa = (n_Sum_i=1 c_i*g_i)/T

where T = n_Sum_i=1 c_i = c_1 + ..... + c_n

Now, since Nefarious and Nick Gers lack the necessary reading comprehension to pick this up from the rest of the thread, I'll spell it out again. The calculation I was referring to is not the calculation of the GPA. It is the calculation of the discrepancy between his actual GPA and his tampered GPA. So let's work that part out now.

Let delta_i be the adjustment the OP makes to grade i
Let delta_gpa be the overall discrepancy. (This is what we're calculating)

Then delta_gpa = (n_Sum_i=1 c_i*(g_i+delta_i))/T - actual_gpa

Without loss of generality, let's reorder the tampered grades to the front of the list. Say k <= n grades were tampered with (in this case 3).

Then delta_gpa = (n_Sum_i=1 c_i*(g_i+delta_i))/T - (n_Sum_i=1 c_i*g_i)/T
= [n_Sum_i=1 c_i*(g_i+delta_i) - n_Sum_i=1 c_i*g_i]/T
= [k_Sum_i=1 c_i*(g_i+delta_i) - k_Sum_i=1 c_i*g_i]/T (since delta_(k+1) = ..... = delta_n = 0 since these are not tampered with)

And as you can see [k_Sum_i=1 c_i*(g_i+delta_i) - k_Sum_i=1 c_i*g_i]/T does not have the unchanged grades or their weights in the calculation.

qed

-MBP

In reply to Nefarious-
10/28/11
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:
Nick Gers:
manbearpig:

I won't admit it because I'm not wrong. And you are, in fact, an idiot. My original comment was that knowing the other unchanged grades is irrelevant to the calculation. Knowing the weights of the unchanged grades is also irrelevant to the calculation. As long as you know the weights of the changed grades and the total credits earned in the degree, you can calculate the discrepancy.

Fascinating.

So the other unchanged grades and their weight is irrelevant to the calculation? That is just absolutely retarded. It is shocking that I would even need to explain why.

Can someone with even the faintest iota of mathematical maturity please explain to this moron what I'm talking about?

Why can't you explain it? Because you are fucking wrong.

MBP, you are without a doubt the most misinformed, venomous member of this site. Nothing you do on this site provides value or offers insight into anything. You resort to nothing more than ad hominem attacks (not even clever or intelligent ones at that). Sift through this thread alone and you will see just how immature you are.

This is the last time I will address you as you have shown that it is a complete waste of time.

I just proved, in compete generality that I'm not "fucking wrong". Let me know if you want me to walk you through the proof. Next time read carefully before you comment.

-MBP

In reply to Nefarious-
10/28/11
Nefarious-:
Macro Arbitrage:
manbearpig:
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that.

Btw, knowing the rest of his grades is irrelevant to the calculation.

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

I understand what you are saying; however, a 120 hour transcript is not that cut and dry. None of us are aware of pass/fail classes, 1 hours classes, 2 hour classes, 3 hour classes or 4 hour classes. These are variables that are not being accounted for.

Calculating a true GPA is not simply taking the average of grades.

This calculator does a good of job of explaining my point:
http://www.back2college.com/gpa.htm

For example, if you have take 4 classes: Two of which are 3 hour courses and the other two are 4 hour courses.

You receive two A's in the 3 hour courses and two B's in the 4 hour courses, your GPA will be 3.43. Now, if you change the two 4 hour courses you received B's in to 3 hour courses and recalculate, your GPA goes from a 3.43 to a 3.5.

You committed a very serious logical fallacy in your "example". SB to the person who points it out.

-MBP

In reply to Nick G
10/28/11
Nick Gers:
Nefarious-:
Macro Arbitrage:
manbearpig:
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that.

Btw, knowing the rest of his grades is irrelevant to the calculation.

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

I understand what you are saying; however, a 120 hour transcript is not that cut and dry. None of us are aware of pass/fail classes, 1 hours classes, 2 hour classes, 3 hour classes or 4 hour classes. These are variables that are not being accounted for.

Calculating a true GPA is not simply taking the average of grades.

This calculator does a good of job of explaining my point:
http://www.back2college.com/gpa.htm

For example, if you have take 4 classes: Two of which are 3 hour courses and the other two are 4 hour courses.

You receive two A's in the 3 hour courses and two B's in the 4 hour courses, your GPA will be 3.43. Now, if you change the two 4 hour courses you received B's in to 3 hour courses and recalculate, your GPA goes from a 3.43 to a 3.5.

Exactly.

Thank you for having more patience than I do and taking the time to actually explain this to him. How could someone possibly be in this field and not know this?

Like I said before, you are a complete idiot. Please refer to my previous three posts for clarification.

-MBP

10/28/11

we can do all this without the sigmas, gentlemen.

grade points for a class = semester hours for the class mult. by grade value (A = 4, B = 3,...)

it's like this. this kid had (i) some fixed number of grade points and (ii) some fixed number of completed semester hours when he was faking his app. call that X and Y respectively. he gave himself some additional grade points by turning 3 Bs into As. call that Z. his true GPA is X/Y and his fake GPA is (X+Z)/Y. he gave himself a Z/Y GPA bump, irrespective of the value of X/Y, i.e., irrespective of whether he got all Fs and As OR Cs and Bs to get his X/Y.

In reply to ivoteforthatguy
10/28/11
ivoteforthatguy:

we can do all this without the sigmas, gentlemen.

grade points for a class = semester hours for the class mult. by grade value (A = 4, B = 3,...)

it's like this. this kid had (i) some fixed number of grade points and (ii) some fixed number of completed semester hours when he was faking his app. call that X and Y respectively. he gave himself some additional grade points by turning 3 Bs into As. call that Z. his true GPA is X/Y and his fake GPA is (X+Z)/Y. he gave himself a Z/Y GPA bump, irrespective of the value of X/Y, i.e., irrespective of whether he got all Fs and As OR Cs and Bs to get his X/Y.

Thanks. This is what I thought would be obvious to those two. Apparently not, so I figured they needed everything to be spelled out explicitly, hence the long winded proof.

-MBP

In reply to manbearpig
10/28/11
manbearpig:
Nick Gers:
Nefarious-:
Macro Arbitrage:
manbearpig:
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that.

Btw, knowing the rest of his grades is irrelevant to the calculation.

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

I understand what you are saying; however, a 120 hour transcript is not that cut and dry. None of us are aware of pass/fail classes, 1 hours classes, 2 hour classes, 3 hour classes or 4 hour classes. These are variables that are not being accounted for.

Calculating a true GPA is not simply taking the average of grades.

This calculator does a good of job of explaining my point:
http://www.back2college.com/gpa.htm

For example, if you have take 4 classes: Two of which are 3 hour courses and the other two are 4 hour courses.

You receive two A's in the 3 hour courses and two B's in the 4 hour courses, your GPA will be 3.43. Now, if you change the two 4 hour courses you received B's in to 3 hour courses and recalculate, your GPA goes from a 3.43 to a 3.5.

Exactly.

Thank you for having more patience than I do and taking the time to actually explain this to him. How could someone possibly be in this field and not know this?

Like I said before, you are a complete idiot. Please refer to my previous three posts for clarification.

The absolute cut-off they mentioned at the information session was 3.60. I had a 3.54 and after changing 3 grades from B to A, it bumped up to a 3.63.

UPDATE - I'm still waiting on the HF for an offer. I will likely take it and not submit my grades.

In reply to Nick G
10/28/11
Nick Gers:
Nefarious-:
Macro Arbitrage:
manbearpig:
Nefarious-:
manbearpig:

Woah, thanks for the monkey shits assholes.

Also to the guy who said changing three Bs to As won't make a big difference in the overall GPA, your overall GPA gets a 0.15 boost by doing this. If you don't think recruiters will notice that, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It was me.

I am not really sure how in the hell you came up with this number as you have no idea what the rest of his grades were, how many hours he actually had upon graduation, which classes these were in (some classes are more than three hours and some are less, which can weigh in on the average). There are too many variables for you take make an assumption like that.

Btw, knowing the rest of his grades is irrelevant to the calculation.

Agreed.

Assuming a person has to take only four credits to graduate:

Grades of person X: D (1.0), D (1.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 2.0
Grades of person Y: A (4.0), A (4.0), B (3.0), B (3.0) | Average GPA: 3.5

Now assuming both person X and person Y alter their Bs to As as OP did.

New GPA of Person X: 2.5
New GPA of Person Y: 4.0

Both individuals added 0.5 to their GPA after the forgery.

I understand what you are saying; however, a 120 hour transcript is not that cut and dry. None of us are aware of pass/fail classes, 1 hours classes, 2 hour classes, 3 hour classes or 4 hour classes. These are variables that are not being accounted for.

Calculating a true GPA is not simply taking the average of grades.

This calculator does a good of job of explaining my point:
http://www.back2college.com/gpa.htm

For example, if you have take 4 classes: Two of which are 3 hour courses and the other two are 4 hour courses.

You receive two A's in the 3 hour courses and two B's in the 4 hour courses, your GPA will be 3.43. Now, if you change the two 4 hour courses you received B's in to 3 hour courses and recalculate, your GPA goes from a 3.43 to a 3.5.

Exactly.

Thank you for having more patience than I do and taking the time to actually explain this to him. How could someone possibly be in this field and not know this?

"this field" ???

You're in back office ops - that's where the serious intellect works

10/28/11

Both MBP and I attend(ed) Canadian universities where our GPA per course wasn't weighted on an hours per week basis, but rather on the duration of the course (i.e half year or full year course).

In reply to Macro Arbitrage
10/28/11
Macro Arbitrage:

Both MBP and I attend(ed) Canadian universities where our GPA per course wasn't weighted on an hours per week basis, but rather on the duration of the course (i.e half year or full year course).

Then that would help to explain the difference of opinion.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

In reply to Nick G
10/29/11
Nick Gers:
manbearpig:

I won't admit it because I'm not wrong. And you are, in fact, an idiot. My original comment was that knowing the other unchanged grades is irrelevant to the calculation. Knowing the weights of the unchanged grades is also irrelevant to the calculation. As long as you know the weights of the changed grades and the total credits earned in the degree, you can calculate the discrepancy.

Fascinating.

So the other unchanged grades and their weight is irrelevant to the calculation? That is just absolutely retarded. It is shocking that I would even need to explain why.

Yes, because they stay the same in all calculations.
Also, please learn a difference between effect and affect. (I didn't want to make a separate post for that.)

More is good, all is better

10/29/11

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