Tuck vs. Fuqua vs. Yale
Good morning all, Hello,
I am a non-traditional applicant (US citizen) and was lucky enough to receive acceptances to Tuck, Darden, UNC, and Fuqua, and interviewed at Yale which I will get a decision on by 4 April. All of these are for the full-time 2 year MBA programs.
I've eliminated UNC and Darden for a variety of reasons, so now it is down to Tuck and Fuqua as well as Yale (should I get in). So, far no scholarships for either and I doubt I’ll get one from Yale should I be admitted. Career-wise I'd like to work in consulting or general management in the short-term, ideally in the DC area. Additionally, I also plan on ideally spending some of my career in Europe so overseas name recognition and network is important to me. Finally, my partner will be working in between Baltimore and DC while I go to school, so being able to quickly get back and forth is important to me as well.
With that said my partner is not overly keen on Tuck due to the pain of getting there. I will be attending admitted students weekend at Fuqua, but won't likely be able to make Tuck. Unfortunately, I also have to decide on Tuck or Fuqua BEFORE I am able to attend the potential Yale admit weekend, which makes my situation a bit more difficult.
On the pros and cons side, all three programs have tight-knit networks, though I've found Fuqua's to be a bit more hit or miss versus the consistency of Tuck and Yale. Please note, the below are just my opinions thus far drawn from limited exposure to each program. If you disagree please tell me as I may have gotten mistaken impressions given how short my time at each has been!
Tuck
Pros (as far as I see them):
- Unparalleled network, I attended a liberal arts school and really like the similar vibe I get from Tuck
- Focus on the single MBA program versus a myriad of eMBAs, MMS. MSF, etc
- Best placement of the 3 into consulting, also highest-rated program
- I loved the traditional leafy campus
- GND
Cons:
- Location, hard to access DC to see my partner, the winter is brutal
- Not as well known in Europe (from my experience)
- More expensive relative to Fuqua and COL
Fuqua
Pros:
- Warmer weather, easier access to see my partner
- Good placement into at least some of MBB in DC area
- Duke sports (I’d be lying if I didn’t say Duke basketball, lacrosse, and now football are a selling point!)
- Seems to have a better network in Europe compared to Tuck and Yale SOM
Cons:
- Not as highly ranked
- While I like the Team Fuqua mentality, from my interactions only about 50% of students / alumni were good about responding, being engaged versus 100% of Tuck and Yale alumni and students I reached out to
- This is not intended as a dig, simply a commentary on the metrics and people I’ve met, but the academic strength of Yale / Tuck seems noticeably higher when I’ve met people
- Grade disclosure
Yale SOM
Pros:
- I love the interdisciplinary approach, particularly as someone interested in both politics and business, and the opportunity to take classes at the law school, and other top MA programs
- SOM also seems more integrated into the university which is attractive and provides more opportunity to meet interesting people from a variety of backgrounds
- The students and alumni I’ve met have all been incredibly responsive which I’ve loved, definitely went punch for punch with Tuck on this front
- The new building is amazing and definitely speaks to Yale’s commitment to improving the school
- GND
Cons:
- Smaller network both in the U.S. and abroad
- Doesn’t place as well into consulting or GM as Tuck or Fuqua
- It is a bit touchy feely if that makes sense, not just collaborative (which I like), but a fair bit lefty (one of the presenters / alumni was as near as I could tell anti-capitalism and I seemed to be the only one a bit put off by this in the class
Anyway thank you all for any input you may have, I like all three schools and I’m having a hard time making a choice, so figured I may get some different perspectives here!
Why did Darden get cut from the list? Seems like a really good fit given your interests and some of your commentary above.
Interesting that you eliminated Darden because after reading your post, your interests, and everything else, I actually would have voted for that. It’s the closest to DC, has the same tight knit community you’re looking for, and the second best consulting placement (I think that’s your immediate goal) of any of the schools. Obviously, there are personal reasons, and it doesn't help to tell you to go to one you've eliminated, but just thought I'd note that.
I do think that for international jobs, especially in Europe, the most important thing you can do is get the best job possible. I know school matters, but I think having McKinsey and school X that is slightly less known in Europe is more important than Oliver Wyman and School Y that is slightly better known in Europe. Plus, your MBB network and client connections will be the best way to get a job over there as is.
That being said, I think that despite its MBB placement, it’d be hard for you to go to Tuck given that your partner is not all that excited about it. It’s not actually that difficult to get to from DC/Baltimore (hour flight. 1.5 hour drive, Southwest and USAir go direct), but it’s pretty tough to choose anywhere if your partner isn’t on board. Of the three, Fuqua is the winner for convenience combined with placement. It places better than SOM into MBB, and is also half the distance (~4 hour drive?). Moreover, if you were put off by the general mentality at SOM, do you really want to go there? SOM is a legit school for some people, but definitely not for everyone (just like Tuck, Darden, and elsewhere).
I was just saying this to someone else who is deciding between Tuck and another school that is more convenient to their spouse, but you really have to figure out/weigh what is most important for you and rank the schools based on those weights. Sometimes there are clear winners for what fits your post-MBA goals, but there are other factors that have to go into the decision. Figure out the importance of each metric, rank the schools, and see which one comes out on top. And definitely make sure to collaborate/communicate with your partner so she feels like she’s weighing in on the decision – will make the whole thing much easier in the end.
Good luck - it's a nice decision to have.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts - good stuff.
Seems like Darden would kind of marry the pros you associate with Tuck and Fuqua. Particularly if I had my heart set on DC/mid-atlantic, would head to Darden without hesitation. A bit puzzling to me, but then I guess you do say you have your reasons...as they say, to each his own.
Darden got cut mainly because (and I will not say these are the best reasons) a couple friends who went there who felt the recruiting was lacking compared to peers (Fuqua, Ross, etc), the fact it had grade disclosure, and generally I was unimpressed by some other alumni I met from there. This is mainly anecdoctal, but had to make a cut.
The mentality of SOM is interesting, as I loved the alumni and current students I met / spoke to, and they were amazing in terms of responsiveness. However, the day I sat in and had the weird anti-capitalist seeming presentation, it was only interviewees no current students, so who knows. Maybe they were better at concealing their surprise than I was.
What other school are you choosing between and Tuck?
Well, I definitely understand cutting schools for some anecdotal reasons. At some point, you sort of have to go with your gut/what you have seen and heard, even if it isn't all that rational. Personally, I think Darden recruiting is on par with Fuqua/Ross, but that certainly doesn't mean you should discount what you've heard. (My undergrad is a major feeder to Darden and I have 10+ friends that are current students or alums).
I don't see why Yale is really a contender at this point. It places the worst in consulting of the three, and is equally inconvenient to DC when compared with Tuck (fly to Hartford, ~1 hour drive). I guess you could take the train, but that's like a 7 hour train ride.
I already picked Tuck over Sloan and Columbia. Also going for MBB, but don't have the remote partner problem (my wife is moving with me). That had its own complications, of course.
I've heard that Yale doesn't place as well into consulting as the others; however, the students (who obviously have a vested interest) say differently and I haven't found any EXACT figures to ascertain whether this is true or not. As for the train, it is about 5 hours from where we live, so definitely shorter. But, yeah with direct flights to Manchester and the hour coach, Tuck is horrible transport-wise. As for why Yale is still around, placement is an obvious question, but please don't get me wrong I've quite liked all of the alumni / students I met and a fair few have been rather impression intellectually and accomplishment-wise.
On an unrelated note, while it doesn't apply to me, I thought Tuck sending out the note about Partner employment was a great touch! Also the hat and the scarf blow the tie from Fuqua out of the water.
Everything I have read and heard so many great things about Tuck. I want to go to Tuck. If you don't go to Tuck, I'll go for you.
Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but did you officially decline the darden offer? I'd echo the above regarding DC proximity, regional placement, and consulting opps there. I think alumni opinions in schools of that range are sort of hit or miss. Stars do well, but not everyone who wants to get into industry x gets the interview or offer. However, I did make some cuts based on anecdotal info myself when deciding which schools to apply to, so I kind of understand.
Tuck is a cut above the rest, but travel considerations seem to play an important part of the decision. I would share your Tuck acceptance with Fuqua admissions/financial aid...if they offer some money it will make your decision much easier. A lot of times the school you try to bargain with will tell you tough luck (esp M7), but you never know..
Will echo what everyone has said here about Darden,
I appreciate the feedback re: Darden, but it is off the list. Just didn't love it along with the other issues I mentioned above. Felt the fit was better at Tuck, Fuqua, and Yale.
It is funny how small interactions you have throughout the process, even when you know that they may not be representative of the total student body, can have a big impact on these decisions. At a top 20 program I visited earlier this year, a full scholarship student said that they "weren't into the whole teamwork thing." Try as I might, I couldn't get that out of my head come decision time.
Since Darden is off the table, I think the logical choice is Fuqua. This is just based on reading the pros/cons in your initial post, and the importance you seem to be putting on landing in DC/proximity to your lady.
And it looks like it's your lucky day as CorpFinanceGuy volunteered to go to Tuck for you. Just gotta find someone to take your spot at SOM and you're in the clear.
Best of luck with your decision - at the end of the day you can't go wrong with any of these places.
I think Tuck should move to Boston or NYC.
Cornell has it's medical school in NYC, so why can't Tuck move to NYC. Maybe they can get some space in Roosevelt Island.
What kind of stats have you gotten from SOM? I guess you're not in yet so it might be awkward, but have you thought about emailing career services to ask for consulting placement this year? I would also ask to talk to a couple of students, one or two going to MBB, and one or two not going to MBB. You'll want their perspectives on what recruitng is like, chances of getting an interview, etc.. It's just tough to compare since their employment report is so vague.
On that note, while SOM does place a decent number into consulting (22%), but my impression is that simply not that many of those are to MBB. I would love for a current/recent grad to dispute that or at least provide some insight, but I don't feel like we have too many SOMers on here.
One data point is LinkedIn, which when you go to the school page, shows you where people work that list that school in their education section. I don't think it's a very accurate/statistically representative sample, but interesting to look at the three schools compared to each other. Especially in terms of the percentage of people in consulting that work at the top firms.
From a close friend at SOM who is not pursuing consulting, but close with people who are: approximately 15 to 20 people interning at MBB this summer.
The number at Tuck in recent years has ranged from 50 to 60 and the overall class size is slightly smaller than Yale (270 to 280).
Nice discussion. Congratulations Alfred-James. Glad to see that you are honest in your impressions. So many people are hung up about rankings rather than the real world, (eg, how much do I care about a relationship in my life) and impressions of the quality of the people you meet on campus. Just goes to show that feel and fit are really key. Contrarian that I am, I want to support Yale, but since you haven`t been admitted yet, it's hard to say. I think you are going to get a very different vibe there than you will at Duke -- and you want to pay attention to that. In my own experience, the Yale SOM students I've met are slightly more academically oriented, if that has anything to do with anything.
Hi @Alfred-James
I haven't read all of the replies but it seems to me that you are getting suggestions to put Darden back on the list. Let me be the contrarian here. Darden would have been a good choice if you wanted to do IB, however, if you are gunning for MBB, Darden does not do so well with MBB.
As a Tuckie enrolling this fall, I like Tuck and would suggest you go to Tuck. But even being completely being logical and un-biased, based on all my research, and my research has been quite extensive, I would say that Tuck is significantly better for those seeking to get into MBB. None of these schools even come close to placing as many students (percentage-wise) into MBB as Tuck does, including Duke. There is some MBB recruitment at these schools but your odds would be significantly lower. Tuck last year placed 20% of its class into MBB. That's about ~56 students from a class of 280! I personally know Tuckies who transitioned straight to MBB all around the world (Europe, Canada etc). So, if you are concerned with transitioning to MBB in Euroep through Tuck, I can assure you that is not an issue. These companies have offices worldwide and allow you to list your preferred offices when you apply. I know many Tuckies who organized consulting career treks to several countries. Feel free to PM me and I can put you in touch with them. If, however, your concern is having a large network in Europe beyond MBA recruitment, then yes Tuck does not have thousands of alums in Europe. But I would say neither does Duke as that too isn't too large of a school. Yale obviously is the newest of the bunch so not going to be much better.
Having said all this, if your goal is not MBB, then Yale could be a good option for IB and Duke perhaps for general management and other careers.
I can't speak to Yale or Tuck, but I can speak to Duke. The campus and student body was incredible. In terms of career opportunities, Duke offers it all. Yes, a great deal go to consulting, but so do many students at MBA programs these days. If your goal is IB, Duke gives you access to all of the BB names. They all come on campus. They also offer a growing path to energy IB in Houston as well as Energy product groups in NYC. The Duke alumni base is extremely passionate. Long story short, if you want to get into Energy IB, I would go to Duke. They have a big energy donor in Aubrey McClennan (ex CEO of Chesapeake) and the head energy MD at Jefferies went to Duke. While Jefferies isn't a BB, they along with Barclays are the top energy teams on the street.
@pointman814 Where di the OP mention Energy IB, let alone IB? Also, I'm relatively confident that Fuqua is a clear third in terms of IB among these schools. Reputation wise, I think Yale beats out both for Energy, although I'm still missing where OP expressed an interest in this...
Not to rag on Fuqua, since I think that is my vote for the guy in terms of location, convenience, and where he generally seems to like.
So, what's do you think are YSOM's specialties when it comes to recruiting?
Just an update and to clarify a few things, I am aiming for consulting and have no interest in IB... Things have progressed a bit since my first post and my partner is now a bit more amenable to Tuck. Unless Blue Devil Weekend blows me away, I am going to go to either Tuck or Yale (depending on if I get into the latter). The alumni strength in terms of responsiveness, of Yale and Tuck really blow me away. If I do get into Yale it will still be a difficult decision...any thoughts between the two?
From what I heard Fuqua is sending approximately 40 interns to MBB this year with BCG getting the most.
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