9/16/09

I know people on this forum treat UBS like it is a clear tier below the other bulge brackets, and most act as if they would choose boutiques over it. I think that sentiment was certainly justified as they were quite unstable with many layoffs and their healthcare group jumping ship.

Now that the economy is recovering, I'm wondering what people think or working in IBD at UBS.

From what I hear, the culture was great (and hopefully morale has turned for the better by now). I believe it was a bank, like Lehman, that people generally enjoyed working at because they didn't absolutely crush you, and analysts often choose to stay for a 3rd year.

Would you guys still say it's clearly below Citi/DB/Barc/CS. We all saw how much trouble citi was in, and they turned it around, I don't see why UBS can't do the same.

One of the things people undervalue in the forum is the social aspect of banking, and I want to work at a place where people are good friends and where MDs aren't constantly yelling at your back. So to me UBS is in the picture.

Does anyone have insight into the culture over there?

Comments (178)

9/16/09

I agree about the culture at UBS-- it's extremely laid back, the MDs are actually nice to you (as long as you get your work done), and their motto is work hard, play hard. For me, the social aspect is just as important as the quality of the bank-- if you don't like where you're working, you won't be successful or happy. I have friends at other BBs that say the people there will sit in their cubes all day and not say a word to the analysts... from what I've heard/seen, UBS has a more relaxed atmosphere and has one of the best social aspects of banking on the street.

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9/16/09

Are you sure about the culture at UBS? I've heard bad things (UBS LA, Ben Lorello - gone now) as well as good things so I guess it depends on the office/group.

Speaking of groups, which are the better ones in the NY office?

9/16/09

Aside from Blackstone & KKR, UBS still places their analysts very well in PE. I have a pretty solid hook up there (she really enjoys it) & would absolutely lateral over a year from now.

"Cowards die a thousand deaths, but the brave only one,"
Bill Shakespeare

9/17/09

I definitely liked the UBS people I met over the years the most of all BBs. Having said that, are most still around with all the movements/departures from UBS/has this affected the culture?

10/1/09

bump

10/2/09

UBS is a solid place with decent relationships. I know the guys that head up their ECM practice as well as their PE placement / fundraising group and these guys / people they work for or with are from MS, etc

So these guys are not 2nd tier bankers etc

At the senior level some might not be happy with bonus blah blah but at your level, it's a fine place to work and rack up experience.

UBS also aboslutely Dominates in Asia which is where a lot of financing is taking place and cross border M&A (#1 in ECM, top 3 in DCM, etc)

10/2/09

As for culture some groups work more than others ... the firm overall is laid back but not in a positive way IMHO. It's disorganized.

HOWEVER, one giant plus you get at UBS as I recently met with a private banker is that their businmess is v ery well run in terms of how the private bank work with the investment bank.

UBS sources a tonm of business from their HNW clients (block sales of stock, strategic investments, blah blah) and that is one aspect of business you won't get elsewhere

10/3/09

A job, still a good thing to have?

4/29/10
TalibKweli:

A job, still a good thing to have?

Talib is right, who cares if its MM or not or what has been going on recently. IBD is among the top jobs to have (if not the top) coming out of college and getting it in this economy is still very commendable. Not a lot of seniors even have jobs at this point.

4/28/10

Here is the solid laydown. if you work here, you will probably regret it. but if you stick it out, you will probably make it out to a MM shop or go on to a mba like I am currently doing. most of this board is concerned with the american operations and that is where there are problems. i would be wary of working here but if its your only offer then go for it and try to get placed into a decent group.

if u know their recent dealflow u'd know its horrible.

4/29/10

as UBS LA grinds you to the bone still even post-Moelis, the people there are solid and for the most part through the people i've met, they are an awesome group... you definitely won't be stuck with a bunch of boring, lackluster uber-nerds.

But having said that last comment, the people at UBS LA are def. bright.

4/29/10

It's a bank, it's a job, and it pays... People on here are far too concerned about prestige (and yes I am too). So what if the name isn't like GS/MS/CS...etc. The opportunities you get coming out of here are still better than 99% of the population.

8/8/10

I dunno man I heard everybody trash Merrill for a while, then last year everybody was so down on Citi, and then UBS was the low man once they had the double crusher IRS scandal in addition to the recession. And nowadays everybody loves Citi and I think UBS will come right back too. Redemptions have basically stopped from the PWM division and the company is well capitalized, which is surprising given what a disaster their balance sheet has been. I've heard some people mention about a lot of new deals in IBD recently. I'm sure someone on this board knows. Guys I know seem laid back in a good way. They aren't loud screaming IBD types, but super smart.

8/9/10

ubs la has died, healthcare got stolen away, they got 2 lawsuits, pwm has lost a lot of ppl, I would wait to see what they can do if they can rebuild.

8/9/10

1) Ask for an extension (no harm in asking, you don't get something you want without asking) whilst still expressing interest. (Ask to talk to more people, ask to meet more groups, etc.) Be sure to come off as genuine in case step 2 doesnt work out.
2) During that time get an offer that you're willing to take over UBS

If not

1) Take UBS, aim for M&A, Financial Sponsors/LevFin
2) Inform other banks/contacts you are in the process with that you have an exploding offer, but your ultimate interest is to end up at ____ for full time and would like to keep in touch.
3) Kill it in the internship, get offer
4) The second you get the offer, start hitting up all the shops you would rather be at
5) IBD -> PE -> Conquer the world

UBS seems to be stabilizing, but they probably wont ever be up to par with where they were before 09. They are still a bulge bracket, and still gets looks by headhunters. You always hear some really good UBS kids still getting megafund offers, just like how other non-GS/MS BBs still compete well enough for megafund recruiting. You just have to try harder than them in getting headhunter attention. With that said, GS/MS still get the most love for PE out of BBs.

This has been extensively discussed and can be found with a simple search. I just don't see why you need to post another topic.

8/9/10

UBS is fine and you're lucky to be working there.

8/9/10

UBS is a great bank. Take everything you read on WSO with a grain of salt. Small minority of ACTUAL banking professionals here will steer you the right way, i.e. take the offer.

"Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin

8/9/10

It's more than fine, as long as you're not like the kids on this forum who haven't even touched the industry yet and are obsessed with the GS/JPM/MS -> megafund PE -> Bschool route and "prestige".

8/9/10

A) Congrats!
B) What are your alternatives?

8/9/10

Dude,

UBS is a great firm and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Yes the prestige is lower now post 2009 but it still is a BB and you can still learn a lot over the summer. Take it network your ass off and get the FT gig you want. No one will ding you for working at UBS.

8/9/10

Dude,

UBS is a great firm and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Yes the prestige is lower now post 2009 but it still is a BB and you can still learn a lot over the summer. Take it network your ass off and get the FT gig you want. No one will ding you for working at UBS.

8/9/10

-

8/9/10

This is a dumb thread. Because WSO doesn't glorify the UBS name as much as GS or MS doesn't mean it isn't a hell of a bank. If you would prefer to work somewhere else, ask for an extension. If not, take the offer.

8/9/10

I just want to point out that even though UBS gets shit on often here in WSO, their Leveraged Finance & Sponsors group places very, very well to PE (much better than you'd expect from a non GS/MS tier bank). Just a heads up for those of you interested in the buy side.

8/9/10

UBS' problems come up again and again here, but most of this information is oriented towards the american business. Have you guys heard of significant problems like that in the Euro or Pacific zone ? It'd be interested to see what's happening there, where UBS has a significant presence.

As for the american business, it will be hard to recover quickly from such hits. I think UBS needs to straighten up a couple of things before it can even start of rebuilding. Switzerland is choking them at this point. It's really too bad because they had a good team... I really wonder what it's like on the inside.

8/9/10
Dibbs:

UBS' problems come up again and again here, but most of this information is oriented towards the american business. Have you guys heard of significant problems like that in the Euro or Pacific zone ? It'd be interested to see what's happening there, where UBS has a significant presence..

They've been getting hit in EMEA and Asia as well, although not to the extent of the US business.
In Asia for example, UBS has lost several key rainmakers over the last year or so. Henry CAI (top banker in China) took himself and a bunch of his team over to Deutsche Bank, Matthew Koder (head of Global Capital Markets) went to BAML, Steve Barg (head of asian capital markets) left to GS and Mark Williams (head of asia ECM) left to Nomura.

Pretty major defections if you ask me...

8/9/10

Culture clash between the swiss and the americans

8/9/10

situation in London seems to be fine at least during the past couple of months.

"too good to be true"

See my WSO Blog

8/9/10

UBS sucks!

8/9/10

my friend told that me that UBS's bonus sucks.

8/9/10

It's been a complete sh!tshow for several years now, and they're just bleeding talent left and right, it seems like people just cant leave that place fast enough.

8/9/10

Didn't madoff also say UBS should expect a lot of trouble?

8/9/10

Though the media focuses on defections at all the banks - people often forget that they are being replaced by key hires. In UBS' case, the fact that Rajeev Misra (ex-Deutsche Bank) and Eric Rosen (ex-JPMorgan) are now running credit trading there - both of which are BSD's - is pretty impressive.

On the IBD front, Citi is taking UBS' people and UBS' is taking Morgan Stanley's people - that seems to be the trend at least.

8/9/10
trade_nrg:

On the IBD front, Citi is taking UBS' people and UBS' is taking Morgan Stanley's people - that seems to be the trend at least.

That happened in the energy group, but where else? Even in that scenario they lost damn near 20 and got 3 from MS.

As the Journal outlined a couple of weeks ago, their personnel W-L record is still far below .500.

EDIT: just saw this on wsj... so much (more) fail... http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/06/01/breaking-ubs...Citigroup/

8/9/10

Management has to change... Carsten is running this place into the ground.

8/9/10

And the exodus continues, UBS Head of M&A and Head of Industrials leave for Citi. I've never seen anything like this, is there going to be anyone left at that bank in a few months?
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/06/01/citi-hires-...

8/9/10

Anyone know how EMEA and Asia are doing? Is this US specific? From the recent Thomson League tables they are well out of the top 10 in the U.S. for M&A, 10'th in Europe, and 6'th or so for Asia. I am just not sure how they plan to turn the ship around if they don't pay?

8/9/10

How can we take the blog of someone who went to Fucknuckle Falls CC seriously? Haha, sorry, just noticed that and had to point it out

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/9/10

Don't dare bash my alma mater. I'll have you know the Fucknuckle Falls CC Pickledicks were a force to be reckoned with in Division 1 croquet.

8/9/10

Still big in Asia dude.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
8/9/10
<a href=/finance-dictionary/what-is-london-interbank-offer-rate-libor rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a>:

Still big in Asia dude.

I don't live in Asia dude.

8/9/10
<a href=/finance-dictionary/what-is-london-interbank-offer-rate-libor rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a>:

Still big in Asia dude.

Everyone is big in Asia.

Zing.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

8/9/10

Yes.

8/9/10

Not in the US ... they have horrible dealflow.

I think Wells Fargo, Jefferies, or RBC will replace them in 1-2 years in terms of prestige.

8/9/10
xyz12345:

Not in the US ... they have horrible dealflow.

I think Wells Fargo, Jefferies, or RBC will replace them in 1-2 years in terms of prestige.

Ouch

8/9/10
xyz12345:

Not in the US ... they have horrible dealflow.

I think Wells Fargo, Jefferies, or RBC will replace them in 1-2 years in terms of prestige.

Jefferies, really?

Their implied default probabilities alone make this ridiculous.

This is why these kind of threads are ridiculous.

8/9/10
xyz12345:

Not in the US ... they have horrible dealflow.

I think Wells Fargo, Jefferies, or RBC will replace them in 1-2 years in terms of prestige.

MM League table - Value - 2011 YTD :
edit : this is for America
1 JPMorgan 205,660
2 Morgan Stanley 192,092
3 Goldman Sachs 172,420
4 Credit Suisse 160,849
5 Barclays Capital 143,194
6 Citigroup Inc 138,726
7 Bank of America Merrill Lynch 122,640
8 Lazard 111,381
9 Deutsche Bank AG 96,257
10 Evercore Partners Inc 91,062
11 UBS Investment Bank 73,905
12 Greenhill & Co Inc 36,284
13 RBC Capital Markets Inc 34,444

17 Jefferies & Company Inc 24,225 69

24 Wells Fargo Securities, LLC 16,964

Those small banks are still far from UBS in term of dealflow, even RBC has less than half of UBS deals value.
However it's true that in the US, they are far below the other BB, except maybe DB...
And I work at a US bank so nothing to do with UBS ;)

8/9/10
dollyship:
xyz12345:

Not in the US ... they have horrible dealflow.

I think Wells Fargo, Jefferies, or RBC will replace them in 1-2 years in terms of prestige.

MM League table - Value - 2011 YTD :
edit : this is for America
1 JPMorgan 205,660
2 Morgan Stanley 192,092
3 Goldman Sachs 172,420
4 Credit Suisse 160,849
5 Barclays Capital 143,194
6 Citigroup Inc 138,726
7 Bank of America Merrill Lynch 122,640
8 Lazard 111,381
9 Deutsche Bank AG 96,257
10 Evercore Partners Inc 91,062
11 UBS Investment Bank 73,905
12 Greenhill & Co Inc 36,284
13 RBC Capital Markets Inc 34,444

17 Jefferies & Company Inc 24,225 69

24 Wells Fargo Securities, LLC 16,964

Those small banks are still far from UBS in term of dealflow, even RBC has less than half of UBS deals value.
However it's true that in the US, they are far below the other BB, except maybe DB...
And I work at a US bank so nothing to do with UBS ;)

You also have to look at the trend though. Wells Fargo and Jefferies have been moving up in the rankings while UBS has been going down. If you look at the IB fee rankings, it tells you the same story. Of course UBS is attached to more deal value as of this moment, but what worries people is the company's future.

8/9/10

UBS is on the decline. Most of my friends are moving out that place.

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8/9/10

UBS used to be the biggest in Asia. DB is now the best there. well actually CICC..

8/9/10

Yes, anyone saying otherwise is crazy

8/9/10

EMEA IBD should still be fine - reductions are mainly targeted at S&T to the best of my understanding

8/9/10

Short answer, yes. Long answer, Yesssssssssssssssssssss

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

8/9/10

I think it's up to them. Ermotti certainly doesnt seem to interested in maintaining the investment banking side of things...more talk of shrinkage this morning.

8/9/10

Have a look at this article, it may explain some of the future directions of UBS:
http://www.rttnews.com/Content/TopStories.aspx?Id=...

8/9/10

Anyone who says yes works in UBS

8/9/10

An MD at a reputable BB bank came to campus a couple weeks ago and the topic of competition came up. He listed every BB bank with the notable exception of UBS. I say notable because someone asked if he forgot to list 'UBS' and he said he does not consider them a big competitor.

This is not me (I consider them the be a BB bank), but one particular MD at one BB bank does not.

8/9/10

I've heard that RBC is doing really well (relatively speaking). Any comments?

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/9/10

RBC is doing as well as a Canadian firm could possibly do.

8/9/10

I turned down my UBS IBD offer (from a popular group) for a boutique

8/9/10

Does anyone remember this summer when UBS laughed at the thought of being bought by Wells? My how the mighty fall....

8/9/10

-

2/9/17

short answer: no.

2/9/17

No its not due to all the reasons u listed but mostly because of dealflow. Dealflow is reduced to a trickle and most importantly its all MM sized which makes for HORRENDOUS EXIT OPS.

Most would agree its no longer bb in america. strong bank in asia however even though if u have questions about asia i'm the wrong person to ask.

2/9/17

fubs I hear you jumped ship a while back or just left after your analyst stint? perhaps you left around the time of the fin. crisis so dealflow ground to a halt, but I don't know why u have all this hate for a bank that hired you.

also don't MM sized deals just mean you work for MM PE, probably doesn't hurt b-school chances much?

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

2/9/17

I left more recent than that, and I didn't "jump ship" i wish i could have jumped ship but no one would take me. mm pe would be a godsend.

bschool is fine, i will be applying next year. u don't need need IBD for bschool, just a good BS application with decent gpa and high GMAT. funny thing? guy writing my rec also left. THANKS A LOT

2/9/17

well, why didn't anyone want to take you. are you in some specialized niche like mining and minerals (I'd bet my money u were in tech honestly), non-target school, backwater office, or bad professional network? can't be that bad if you're off someplace good.

i guess i would be pissed if I found out they sold me UBS as some godsend and I end up with no exit opps, but if the people were cool I don't think I'd feel as bad. unless they were bitches too.

in the meantime, are you chilling on the beach in cancun sippin' on some drank?

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

2/9/17

UBS did get the $11.54B Schulmberger deal... so possibly a glimmer of hope for their energy group

2/9/17

I think their energy group is still solid relative to the overall i-bank.

2/9/17

UBS does not do only MM deals. Fubs, do you have any factual backup to that? Seems like you're pretty biased given your experience there.

UBS worked on several large deals in the past few months including Schlumberger, Cadbury/Kraft, and GE/Comcast. This was just discussed on another post:
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/recent-deals-ubs

Considering these deals and the global league tables, seems to me like they're still a BB even though they've been hit hard.

2/9/17

UBS is hiring back lots of senior ppl - it's going to be fine but it is not what it used to be back in the day

2/9/17

I think there is a mismatch between UBS in the US, where its BB status may well be questioned, and Europe and Asia, where nobody would be discussing such an issue.

2/9/17

It's still strong overseas, but what about in the U.S.? Sure they may crank out a few solid deals, but it seems like their bread and butter has shifted a bit.

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

2/9/17
PiperJaffrayChiang:

It's still strong overseas, but what about in the U.S.? Sure they may crank out a few solid deals, but it seems like their bread and butter has shifted a bit.

Bread and butter? Please, enlighten me. Their bread and butter is not the US. And is still not the US. The "bread and butter" of UBS has not shifted. And i-banking is not the only department of a bank and is not the 'bread and butter' at many banks. It's merely a service to meet clients' needs.

2/9/17

everyone is talking about different things in this thread, UBS is still top player for Europe and Asia.

For united states its still a good bank but i'll admit its not doing so well

2/9/17

i don't know too much about their dealflow or the rumors of constant pitching. I did recently interview w/ them and can say that their process is thoroughly fucked up - might have just been my interviewer.

2/9/17
liu kang:

i don't know too much about their dealflow or the rumors of constant pitching. I did recently interview w/ them and can say that their process is thoroughly fucked up - might have just been my interviewer.

FINISH HIM!

2/9/17

can you explain liu kang? i had interview too and offer and it was all fit, seemed nothing wrong. friendly hr gave me an offer.

2/9/17

Haven't heard a thing about deferred start dates in NYC for IBD. They actually just confirmed start dates (they pushed it back a week... we're screwed) and hired a significant number of people and brought in some upper level talent.

As for exit ops... Several analyst at UBS that I talked to within groups like lev fin, M&A, and FIG are heading to HBS, KKR and other similar opportunities and they were class of 2008. Sounds like shit to me right?

Oh yeah, the pay is very "solid." UBS is a bank that took a hit, but will be back. They are getting deals as we speak and I've heard personally from a MD that his travel has been worth it as engagements are happening.

So, in response to the question, the rep of the bank is this IMO - Took a hit and is rebuilding by hiring lots of talent and keeping MDs on the road fighting for deals where they are gaining traction.

2/9/17

It sounds like few of you have read some of the recent pieces covering the rise of Credit Suisse as UBS falters. What crippled UBS was its fixed-income trading platform. The pressure from the US government to disclose its clients hasn't helped either.

2/9/17

Check out how many senior bankers UBS has hired in its Investment Bank in America since September:

* 1/25/10 - Neal Shear as Global Head of Securities (previously Co-Head of S&T at Morgan Stanley)
* 1/25/10 - Roberto Hoornweg as Global Head of Securities Distribution (previously Head of Global Interest Rates, Credit & Currencies at Morgan Stanley)
* 1/7/10 - James Paris as MD in Leveraged Finance (previously MD in Leveraged Finance at Deutsche Bank)
* 11/6/09 - Allen Bouch and Scott Norby as MDs in Financial Sponsors (previously in the Financial Entrepreneurs Group and Head of the San Francisco Investment Banking Group, and MD in Financial Sponsors at Goldman Sachs, respectively)
* 10/26/09 - William Ortner as MD and Co-Head OF Structured Equity Capital Markets, Americas (previously headed Structured Finance at Structured Investment Management and headed Equity-Linked Capital Markets for the Americas at Barclays Capital)
* 10/6/09 - 18 Bankers to open new Energy IBD office in Dallas. Includes appointment of Darrell Holley as MD and Global Head of Energy Lending as well as eight Executive Directors (Holly was previously Global Head of Oil and Gas banking at Fortis Bank in Dallas)
* 9/29/09 - Michael Ostow as MD and Head of North American Insurance Banking (Previously Co-Head of the North American Insurance Group within the FIG practice at Morgan Stanley)
* 9/16/09 - Denis Fabre, Steven Fisch, Les Franks and Holly Sheffield as MDs in Healthcare (previously MD in Healthcare at Deutsche Bank, Co-Head of US Healthcare at Citi, MD in Healthcare at Thomas Weisel Partners, MD in Healthcare at Credit Suisse, respectively)
* 9/15/09 - Bora Sila as MD and Head of Americas Retail Banking (previously Co-Head of Retail Banking at Citi)
(source: http://www.ubs.com/1/e/media_overview/media_americ...)

And recent US deals UBS has worked on:
* 2/24/10 - Advisor to General Growth Properties on its restructuring
* 2/21/10 - Sole Advisor to Smith Industries on its $11B sale to Schlumberger
* 1/19/10 - Advisor to Cadbury on its $18.9B sale to Kraft Foods
* 12/3/09 - Co-Advisor to Comcast on $37B joint venture with GE

The firm definitely suffered in the US this year, but looks like they are ramping up again and starting to get more business. For 2009, UBS was #6 in global M&A and #13 in US M&A. And #8 in total IB revenues globally (http://www.ft.com/ibleague).

Considering the firm survived the economic crisis and finally posted a quarterly profit of $1.12B, I would say it is still a BB and not a "sinking ship" as some ppl on this board still claim.

FUBS - sorry you got fired but let it go and move on.

2/9/17

lol i hope that makes you feel better and sleep easier at night. i left, not fired. Best decision of my life. I would suggest enjoying ur last months of freedom before ur training in the summer.

2/9/17
fubs:

lol i hope that makes you feel better and sleep easier at night. i left, not fired. Best decision of my life. I would suggest enjoying ur last months of freedom before ur training in the summer.

I guess devoting a whole account to bash UBS must have made you feel better and sleep easier at night.....

There must be something really really serious between you and UBS and you haven't really told us what exactly made you so mad. Did some people from UBS do something terrible to you? It doesn't seem that you've been with UBS for too long. I'm very curious what could cause such an anger and just can't let it go.

2/9/17
novocaine:
fubs:

lol i hope that makes you feel better and sleep easier at night. i left, not fired. Best decision of my life. I would suggest enjoying ur last months of freedom before ur training in the summer.

I guess devoting a whole account to bash UBS must have made you feel better and sleep easier at night.....

There must be something really really serious between you and UBS and you haven't really told us what exactly made you so mad. Did some people from UBS do something terrible to you? It doesn't seem that you've been with UBS for too long. I'm very curious what could cause such an anger and just can't let it go.

haha, and you created an account just to reply to fubs?

2/9/17
CharmWithSubstance:

haha, and you created an account just to reply to fubs?

nope. I just haven't visited here for quite a while. .
one click you would see this.
"Member for 25 weeks 3 days"

2/9/17

Why why why would two GS Financial Sponsor MDs leave to become Financial Sponsor MDs at UBS, does UBS promise a boatload of stock?

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

2/9/17

i'm sure there was some good comp to switch. the bank is huge.. and if they want to expand US operations they will invest into it. it's not as if all their operations are out of the US

2/9/17
fubs:

How am i trolling? UBS is beaten out by almost every other bank and dealflow is horrible... i didn't even apply but i know 2 kids who are total idiots with 3.3's from my school who got offers...

This is from the FUBS' first thread bashing UBS, //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ubs-is-the-worst

FUBS, you said yourself that you didn't even apply to the firm--blatantly lying about working there in all your previous posts just makes you look like a massive troll.

Good luck getting a job, kid.

2/9/17
xtc89:
fubs:

How am i trolling? UBS is beaten out by almost every other bank and dealflow is horrible... i didn't even apply but i know 2 kids who are total idiots with 3.3's from my school who got offers...

This is from the FUBS' first thread bashing UBS, //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ubs-is-the-worst

FUBS, you said yourself that you didn't even apply to the firm--blatantly lying about working there in all your previous posts just makes you look like a massive troll.

Good luck getting a job, kid.

I've been calling fub's bluff for ages. Not once did he make an insightful bashing comment (i.e. one that is actually on the money). If his trolling was funny/interesting then it would be cool, but it's not. It's just snide, pointless remarks.

Just my 2c.

2/9/17
xtc89:
fubs:

How am i trolling? UBS is beaten out by almost every other bank and dealflow is horrible... i didn't even apply but i know 2 kids who are total idiots with 3.3's from my school who got offers...

This is from the FUBS' first thread bashing UBS, //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ubs-is-the-worst

FUBS, you said yourself that you didn't even apply to the firm--blatantly lying about working there in all your previous posts just makes you look like a massive troll.

Good luck getting a job, kid.

I battle any sex or any race;
You beating me is like Billy Crystal playing Scarface;
I can't see it, I'm blind to the eyes;
I came up in your face, Oops-Pow Suprise! Oh!

2/9/17

UBS is still a very good bank. I'm currently looking for a job and those guys were the most down to earth and money hungry. My buddy got an offer and accepted and he is one of the best candidates at my school... So don't think their takin guys with 3.3s because I have a 3.5 and didn't even get interviews.

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

2/9/17

It is still strong in LA. See post: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/best-la-bank. Also, know two kids from school working in the LA office. They are taking 10 summer analysts which is pretty unheard out in LA. Have to believe deal flow is strong for them to be doing that.

2/9/17

This is very entertaining. All of you need to get a life and quit worrying about the rep of the banks like your life depends on it. I enjoy getting on here once a month to remind myself how ridiculous some of you are in this industry. For those still trying to land a job and are inquiring whether UBS is a good bank, dont worry about what people say on this board. FUBS obviously is either a bitter ex-employee or is full of shit all together. If you can land an offer in this market at a BB in NY or else where be it UBS or another bank you are doing just fine. UBS is solid (Smith and GGP recently) and more to come. Take the offer you feel best about and kill it when you hit the floor. These Monkeys need to quit stressing about the rep of their banks. Reminds me of Greek life. Get in and take everything you can from the great experience. Don't worry about all the BS that people on this blog do. See you guys next month.

2/9/17
samuel30:

This is very entertaining. All of you need to get a life and quit worrying about the rep of the banks like your life depends on it. I enjoy getting on here once a month to remind myself how ridiculous some of you are in this industry. For those still trying to land a job and are inquiring whether UBS is a good bank, dont worry about what people say on this board. FUBS obviously is either a bitter ex-employee or is full of shit all together. If you can land an offer in this market at a BB in NY or else where be it UBS or another bank you are doing just fine. UBS is solid (Smith and GGP recently) and more to come. Take the offer you feel best about and kill it when you hit the floor. These Monkeys need to quit stressing about the rep of their banks. Reminds me of Greek life. Get in and take everything you can from the great experience. Don't worry about all the BS that people on this blog do. See you guys next month.

bang on.

I don't work for UBS, but I work at one of their competitors in London. Over here, people wouldn't even debate this. It's looked highly upon as the most elegant BB; I've never met a dull employee from there.

I did a spring week at MS, I did an internship at JPM, and I'm now at a different BB - maybe it's a case of 'the grass is always greener', but I think it's a great bank.

p.s. the reason that their getting top MDs is because Oswald has his head screwed on.

Let's see how the future pans out.

2/9/17

^ I agree, but you don't want to find yourself with no place to go when your contract ends.

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

2/9/17

UBS LA gets you somewhere thats for sure.

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

2/9/17

UBS is still seeing some pretty strong deal flow. Look at the league tables/news. Sure, they have been hit in the US, but they have rebuilt their FICC group and are hiring all over the place. They also recently turned their first profitable quarter since the start of the crisis, and judging by the performance of the stock vis-a-vis CS, the markets seem to like them. It seems like Gruebel's bitter medicine is taking effect.

If choosing between various offers, I would give you the same advice a VP at Citi gave me: Stay away from the banks that are about to go through what [Citi] just went through. Try to catch the upside on a bank that's rebounding.

Give it a few months and I bet you will see fubs/mrbrightside eating his words. Or coming up with some other retard reason to be a troll.

2/9/17

...

2/9/17

dollabillz can u please stop bumping UBS threads. i am tired of all the hate. yes its not the best but like other say, any investment banking job is great in this economy and some of us are going there this summer.

2/9/17

which banks currently would you say are about to go through what Citi has gone through?

2/9/17

^ To an extent, the big 4 Greek banks by the look of things.

Just my 2c.

2/9/17

UBS has gone through turmoil but in Europe is on the rebound. Chatted with a UBS MD in London who recently jumped ship from MS and he said the reason he transfered was because of the upside potential.

http://convertyourbond.com

Free market commentary and trading insights to help with interviews

2/9/17

Sorry to disappoint but I would not be arsed enough to create multiple profiles to argue on an internet forum, ive been on this site for a while but never created a profile.

Btw, jokes about Piper Jaffray are getting as old as 'equities in dallas', and just gives you away as a college kid who thinks they are the shit cuz they have done an internship at a BB.

And I strictly mentioned in Europe, but i guess ignorance does not allow you to see that part of the map.

http://convertyourbond.com

Free market commentary and trading insights to help with interviews

2/9/17

BA announced it was merging with Iberia today, creating one of the world's biggest airlines.

UBS was advising BA, MS was advising Iberia.

Iberia got shafted, BA is taking 55%, Iberia HQ is closing, and they are moving to London, and BA is keeping it's name (despite ongoing reputal from Iberia), and has board control.

They also helped Cadbury get a good price from Kraft.

I think UBS are doing just fine.

2/9/17

They are also advising vodafone on their options - one of which may be to merge with verizon, creating a PS120bn telco giant.

Just my 2c.

2/9/17

always resorting to international deals. in the u.s. they are a former shell of their old self.

2/9/17

^ Well, 'cos they are European, they are stronger in "international deals".

Just my 2c.

2/9/17

'resorting' to international deals makes it sound like their picking up scraps - they've always been a big international player - they were top of the european M&A dealflow in 2007 (dealogic).

besides, the US didn't do it any favours on the PWM side of life, so it owes no loyalty to what is now a debt ridden sinking ship - it's right to focus elsewhere.

2/9/17

Of course it is a BB internationally. In the U.S., i believe it still is but it is right there with banks like Deutsche and Wells Fargo.

2/9/17

So I figure it's better to have some more trustworthy sources than college kids trying to flout their banking "expertise", "Partner" connections, and knowledge of "reputation":
http://news.hereisthecity.com/news/business_news/1...
http://online.thomsonreuters.com/DealsIntelligence...

Step 1:
Take a look at the US section for UBS's US standing, and the Worldwide section for their global standing.

Step 2:
Draw what conclusions you will.

Cheers.

2/9/17

Well I can tell you're young. Let me give you the jist. All the cool peeps I know at UBS are senior. They pay them well and they receive massive resources pumped into their divisions. However, UBS simply is not competitive. UBS AG = UBS Warburg. UBS Warburg died a few years ago and now UBS AG is going with it. UBS, as it was between the late 90s' and now will break up in the coming years.

I think, generally, if you join UBS now you're in for a normal year until 2015. After that the company will break up into a holding firm in the US and have multiple parts like it did in the 90s, i.e. Paine Webber, etc. So it's fine to join, but you have to keep up your contacts with other firms just in case the news comes out. Additionally, pay is pretty low right now.

In sum, joining UBS means you come from a non-target. Unlike BAML, UBS is a no-hoper. All you have to do is meet the people in charge of the company to realise they dislike, immensely, their US operations. To them, the US ops are like HSBCs' old one in the US -- lots of risk and little return... for them.

2/9/17

G.M.Trevelyan:
Well I can tell you're young. Let me give you the jist. All the cool peeps I know at UBS are senior. They pay them well and they receive massive resources pumped into their divisions. However, UBS simply is not competitive. UBS AG = UBS Warburg. UBS Warburg died a few years ago and now UBS AG is going with it. UBS, as it was between the late 90s' and now will break up in the coming years.

I think, generally, if you join UBS now you're in for a normal year until 2015. After that the company will break up into a holding firm in the US and have multiple parts like it did in the 90s, i.e. Paine Webber, etc. So it's fine to join, but you have to keep up your contacts with other firms just in case the news comes out. Additionally, pay is pretty low right now.

In sum, joining UBS means you come from a non-target. Unlike BAML, UBS is a no-hoper. All you have to do is meet the people in charge of the company to realise they dislike, immensely, their US operations. To them, the US ops are like HSBCs' old one in the US -- lots of risk and little return... for them.

What I like about you, more than most of the other trolls is that your posts are consistently shitty.
There's not even a second of doubt that one of them might actually be worthwhile to read.
There's no getting your hopes up only to be let down.
They're just all bad.

Thanks bro

2/9/17

G.M.Trevelyan:
Well I can tell you're young. Let me give you the jist. All the cool peeps I know at UBS are senior. They pay them well and they receive massive resources pumped into their divisions. However, UBS simply is not competitive. UBS AG = UBS Warburg. UBS Warburg died a few years ago and now UBS AG is going with it. UBS, as it was between the late 90s' and now will break up in the coming years.

I think, generally, if you join UBS now you're in for a normal year until 2015. After that the company will break up into a holding firm in the US and have multiple parts like it did in the 90s, i.e. Paine Webber, etc. So it's fine to join, but you have to keep up your contacts with other firms just in case the news comes out. Additionally, pay is pretty low right now.

In sum, joining UBS means you come from a non-target. Unlike BAML, UBS is a no-hoper. All you have to do is meet the people in charge of the company to realise they dislike, immensely, their US operations. To them, the US ops are like HSBCs' old one in the US -- lots of risk and little return... for them.

Excuse me if i missed something, but why did you randomly bring up BAML? lol

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG

2/9/17

by any chance this firm can have a turn-around? like focusing on the advisory business?

2/9/17

Layoffs are happening everywhere, so I wouldn't focus on the dealbreaker article. Yes, there were a bunch at UBS but they are pretty much over now in IBD with the exception of senior people. I would say that the extent to which "things are not going well" is overexaggerated, but suffice to say that the prominence of the bank has certainly fallen which makes the current state of affairs more stark.

Two big questions when assessing what you're going to get from your SA/full time experience: 1) learning experience and 2) exit opps. At UBS you will likely still get the learning experience you'd get at any other BB, though that is somewhat group specific. Exit opps will not be as strong as mid/top tier BBs but will still be strong relative to many MM and boutique firms (elites aside.) I.e. you'd still get contacted by a bunch of head hunters.

I wouldn't say it's not competitive, just not as competitive as it used to be nor as competitive as other BBs.

2/9/17

Stay away from UBS

2/9/17

generally with respect to the current environment yes. however profitable ibd groups are doing fine.

2/9/17

Bump- what would you say are the safest and/or strongest groups at UBS right now as far as IBD and Capital Markets divisions go?

2/9/17

Black Jack:
Bump- what would you say are the safest and/or strongest groups at UBS right now as far as IBD and Capital Markets divisions go?

they are very dedicated to their m&a and LevFin group.

2/9/17

M&A, LevFin, also FIG, GIG and TMT are not bad.

2/9/17

Damn reformed.

"Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin

2/9/17

Didn't they cut their M&A group?

2/9/17

ct52:
Didn't they cut their M&A group?

they did not. you can look up their recent earnings presentation which groups they cut/kept. the m&a team is very profitable, not capital intensive, and the firm is committed to them. i know however industry groups were cut even at the analyst level.

2/9/17

Their M&A group now only comprises senior bankers who assist on more complex transactions, and the rest of the M&A is done in house by the coverage group.

"Money is a scoreboard where you can rank how you're doing against other people."
-Mark Cuban

2/9/17

i think it's relatively safe but UBS is literally dead last in every relevant league table. 9th place or worse across the board. it's just not a competitive bank at this point and there isn't any reason to believe that will change.

to answer the OP's questions:

a) yes, definitely take any BB/elite boutique over UBS
b) yes, Jefferies is a better option than UBS but i'd take UBS over most other MMs
c) should be considered and accepted if nothing better turns up. objectively still a good job.

2/9/17

Yes, it is a bad idea. the LA and SF offices were announcing on dealbreaker today that they are shutting down those offices...not a good sign

2/9/17

I would say "A" and "B". UBS is still better than any no name boutique and lower mm banks, especially for SA.

2/9/17

KMoelis:
I would say "A" and "B". UBS is still better than any no name boutique and lower mm banks, especially for SA.

Agreed. Recognizable name helps for sure. Wouldn't hesitate to take it for SA if it's your best option. Just make sure you land an offer and use it to recruit FT somewhere else.

2/9/17

So I understand this became more relevant after SF/LA news but as an update I landed an SA gig not at UBS, so no need for any more insight haha, but share if you want.

"Money is a scoreboard where you can rank how you're doing against other people."
-Mark Cuban

2/9/17

Streams of senior investment bankers have been jumping ship from UBS. The firm lost two group heads to Blackstone in the past few months alone. It seems like UBS IBD, at least in the U.S., is going downhill with no signs of a turnaround in fortunes anytime soon.

2/9/17

dm1992:

Streams of senior investment bankers have been jumping ship from UBS. The firm lost two group heads to Blackstone in the past few months alone. It seems like UBS IBD, at least in the U.S., is going downhill with no signs of a turnaround in fortunes anytime soon.


Name some. You're thinking of the guys who went to Citi years ago. I feel bad for OP because of how incorrect you all are. The M&A group still exists.. cuts are over so job stability is 100% better now than other BBs that may do the same.
2/9/17

Sure. Karl Knapp (Vice-Chairman and Head of Industrials at UBS) and James Schaefer (Global Head of Power) both left to join Blackstone Advisory Partners. Also lost its entire Private Capital Advisory team and its Head of SEA IBD to Evercore. Lost top media bankers when they started their own firm, LionTree. Top TMT banker Simon Warshaw left to do his own thing. Every departure I mentioned took place in the last 12 months. I'm probably missing a few other departures since this is all off the top of my head and a cursory google search.

I would question your assumption on stability. The loss of senior bankers almost inevitably leads to a decreased need for junior bankers.

2/9/17

Hm I'm a bit curious also, as the FS & LF groups recently split. i wonder which would place better into PE. the FSLF group heads are expecting an uptick in deals though going forward. we'll see how that pans out in the future

2/9/17

friends from UBS NY have said that business is picking up and they are all very busy. As for FSLF, I believe it still has good exit opps--definitely analysts going to top PE shops from there (met a girl going to KKR). Not sure about exit opps for the other groups.

2/9/17

I think Industrials has picked up significantly - my old bank lost a decent sized deal to them, granted Industrials was slaughtered it seemed/a lot of people left - apparently no bonuses last year or something..

2/9/17

definitely better than working at Macquarie!

2/9/17

A member of my immediate family just left there for a prime Research Analyst job with a top firm (GS/MS). He said that they had really high turnover resulting in some iffy hiring decisions. While he acknowledged the possibility of Associates just not having had the time to learn what they needed, he said in general they just seemed like a much lower quality group of people.

To be honest, it probably really depends on the group and I'm not about to go into more detail about where he was and all that. Frankly, even if it has lost some quality, it is quite the opportunity to work for a company like UBS in NY.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

2/9/17

I am looking for a research position....do you have any recommendations? I'm new to this industry and taking the off the wall approach, if you haven't noticed :)

Get busy living

2/9/17

analyst or associate?

2/9/17

Associate...

2/9/17

UBS still has deals coming for TMT but it's not what it used to be. hours are pretty rough.

2/9/17

All Wall Street firms went through some pretty rough times but UBS just seems to be struggling to get over the worst of it. The frequent media scandals just suggests a poorly-managed place and the most recent bonus pool story is just ridiculously unacceptable. If MDs are squealing, I can't imagine what Associates are doing. I would be very careful before accepting a UBS offer. Good luck!

2/9/17

Thank you! These are my thoughts too. It is hard to accept an offer when you read in the WSJ that MD's are considering leaving. I did hear that TMT is still a strong group there but I guess it is hard to say what might happen...

2/9/17

I would go by fit. It's one thing if you are going to Houston (where their whole team disappeared) but for established groups I wouldn't worry about it over the long haul. Go with who you like best. You're the one that has to work with them.

2/9/17

UBS is very focused on rebuilding the US investment bank. As long as they continue to pay their top MDs competitively, the bank could bounce back over the next few years.

2/9/17

If you have a preference towards or interest in TMT or have aspirations to go into VC eventually...go with UBS. If you are unbiased about coverage group and are in IB for the long haul, go with BofAML. BAML did great last year, particularly in their products groups (DCM, LevFin, ECM) but the entire bank is emerging well from the downturn.

You said you like the UBS culture which is important, so let that have more weight than other things. UBS may be slow to climb back but, as 00R said, if they can retain talent they will be fine or better than fine.

End of the day they are both good shops. Congrats on offers. I would hands down choose BAML.

2/9/17

While I don't think I have enough exposure to the industry to flat out say "UBS Sucks," few people at my school who received offers from both UBS and other firms, specifically Jefferies and Moelis, took the latter options. Does that mean UBS is doomed? Probably not (especially considering places like Jefferies and Moelis are considered rising stars), but it doesn't seem to be a top choice for many people right now. I'd say go with BoA.

2/9/17

I also think you should go with fit, but all other things equal I would say go with BofA. I am assuming it is Merrill Lynch and not some separate group inside of BofA, right?

Wall Street leaders now understand that they made a mistake, one born of their innocent and trusting nature. They trusted ordinary Americans to behave more responsibly than they themselves ever would, and these ordinary Americans betrayed their trust.

2/9/17
Beef:

I also think you should go with fit, but all other things equal I would say go with BofA. I am assuming it is Merrill Lynch and not some separate group inside of BofA, right?

I don't really understand what you're asking here... it's investment banking at BAML...

2/9/17

Yes. Its BofA Merrill in NYC.

2/9/17

This is a bit off topic, but I was reading an article in Thursdays WSJ about MM IB's being on the same competitive level as some BB IB's, both in deal flow and compensation. MM may be something else to consider, especially if compensation and job security is better than UBS.

As far as your BoAML deal, I'm jealous and would go with that if I were you. They're having a rough time now, but give them a few more years and they'll be a great institution.

2/9/17
brooksbrotha:

This is a bit off topic, but I was reading an article in Thursdays WSJ about MM IB's being on the same competitive level as some BB IB's, both in deal flow and compensation. MM may be something else to consider, especially if compensation and job security is better than UBS.

Elite boutiques (the article mentioned laz and Evercore) are not middle market.

2/9/17

I should add, this is for the US

2/9/17

UBS has done very well this year and the internal changes are finally starting to show positive results. Most of the other Eurobanks will be doing similar changes in the near future. Know several guys that left for top funds like KKR and Advent. FSLF places almost all of their analysts to the buy-side.

Any negative comment on UBS here is completely false. I created a few threads questioning the firm as well because of what I read on here. Its a WSO sense of humor that nobody understands. Also keep in mind that this forum is full of college students who aren't even in the industry yet.

FSLF is by far the top group, and TMT and Industrials are strong as well from what I hear. Cant speak for M&A, although I heard the group is small and lean

2/9/17

-

2/9/17

Definitely recovering from what happened a couple of years ago, managed to attract quite a lot of senior people lately...
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2015/03/04/ubs-reve...

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2015/03/12/ubs-taps...

http://business.financialpost.com/2015/03/11/ubs-l...

2/9/17

Its a bulge bracket. Still a great name. Banks have ups and downs. Don't go off of what some college kids or news media says. Go off of it because you like the people and the firm culture.

No matter what group you get in, all the skills are great for exposure and totally transferrable. UBS is a great mark on your resume.

2/9/17

Great people in the FIG group through interactions.

2/9/17

Great people in the FIG group through interactions.

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Best Response
2/9/17

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."

2/9/17
2/9/17

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."

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