Unbiased Pros/Cons of Harvard and Stanford MBA's
Mod Note (Andy): We thought this comment deserved its own post for the homepage. Here's the original discussion.
Here’s my take. I've attended one of these schools and have had several close friends attend each (with a mix of preferences). I've tried my best to be unbiased.
HBS:
Pros:
- Incredible brand (amplified with the layperson and internationally)
- More institutional resources
- Larger alumni base
- Easier access to networking/recruiting on east coast
- Better teaching quality
- Incredible campus
- Better looking ladies (seriously, not being facetious)
- Harvard is Harvard.
Cons:
- No curriculum flexibility in first year
- Grade disclosure
- More competitive classroom culture
- Harder to network on west coast
Pro/Con:
- More structured environment
- Larger class size (~900)
- 100% case method instruction
Stanford:
Pros:
- Equal brand strength to employers you care about
- Stronger entrepreneurial culture and greater access to Silicon Valley
- Better placement into buyside jobs (85% of finance jobs are in PE/VC/HF/IM vs. 70% for HBS) (yes, the actual stats go against the conventional wisdom of this board.)
- Most selective business school in the world (6% admit rate vs. 12% for HBS)
- Smaller class size leads to tight-knit community
- Slightly less competition for jobs from classmates (due to smaller class size)
- Grade non-disclosure policy (this is actually a pretty big deal for quality of life during school)
- More curriculum flexibility
- California weather
- Division I sports affiliation
Cons:
- Smaller alumni base, particularly on east coast.
- Harder to network on east coast
- Lower brand strength internationally
Pro/Con:
- More laid back culture
- Smaller class size (~400)
- Mix of lecture and case instruction
The bottom line is that there's really not much difference in the career opportunities out of either. But they do have a different cultural vibe (as much from the institutions as from the students) and being on opposite sides of the country can influence where you end up after school. So I think it comes down to cultural fit and geography.
And despite the HBS bias that seems to exist on this board (and among the population in general), the fact of the matter is that there are about 200 students each year that are dual HBS/Stanford admits, and they split about 100 to each school. (Edit: This split actually seems to be trending in Stanford's favor lately. The new campus has probably helped.)
Where is Brady when someone needs objective information about BSchools?
I'm liking the new profile pic. Always a classic
Is that fact that an HBS grad has to begin or end a sentence with "I went to HBS" a pro or a con?
Harvard has hotter girls???
kind of like being the smartest kid on the short bus
Exactly correct.
Wonder if they just mean Boston in general? I imagine there are more attractive ladies in the Cambridge/Boston area than the SF bay area.
I would think that the California girls in general would be more attractive. Maybe not Stanford MBA students, but at least girls there in general.
North Cali girls are pretty damn sexy compared to the rest of the country. Midwestern girls are hot too but a bit too conservative for my tastes. Not really sure what to think of Boston girls. I know NYC is overrated in that department.
Look at it from a different point of view. Talent/energy output in an area like LA you would have to put out a lot of energy to secure a top tier talent. Where as an area like Cambridge you can put out 0 energy and secure top talent. If the difference between the talent level is 2 i.e a 10 in LA and an 8 in Cambridge. What would you rather do?
Doesn't HBS have grade non-disclosure?
In my 2nd year at a school in NY that discloses grades. Seriously is something to factor in..
That California weather though.. So amazing.
Isn't it true that despite HBS not having GND pretty much no one puts their grades on their resume since the 1's, 2's, and 3's don't really roll up into a GPA?
Yes, that's true. And in a given class, the top 10% get a 1, the bottom 10% get a 3, and the middle 80% get a 2. So although there are grades and grade disclosure, apparently they're really not very important.
Pretty good summary in general, nice post. I completely agree that HBS has a stronger brand internationally and with "laypeople". There's no question about that and for some people (...not judging... or excluding myself from the category even) that's a very important point.
I think another point to mention, and it's clearly a part of another point you already made (being close to silicon valley), but I want to bring it out more fully--- going to Stanford you're likely to have a lot of good angel investment opportunities. If you happen to have some money (from your family, most likely, at that age), these type of opportunities are really valuable. It's something to think about.
I would sell my soul to go to Stanford.
Harvard is D1 too...
Do we really have to explain why Stanford provides a better college sports environment?
I mean, if he said "better football team" then that's obviously true but they're both D1 and Harvard's basketball team is very solid. how any of this is relevant to MBAs/grad students though is largely beyond me anyway lol
Good stuff, thanks.
"HBS Pro: Better teaching quality"
Can someone elaborate?
Back in the 90s where classic buyouts were prevalent, Stanford didn't even have a strong name in the street. It was HBS, wharton dominating the most, then Booth and columbia. Stanford only gets the super edge after 2000 when tech/entrepreneurship becomes popular. ---- first handed info from an ex GS banker (I don't know how true is that)
I feel that choosing between Harvard and GSB is a problem that 99.9% of applicants won't have to deal with.
Absolutely on the money
what about Yale??????????? messed up.
Yale has an acceptance rate of 17.3%. IMO It cant be compared to the top 2... I wouldnt spend 200k on Yale
Thrilled to hear everyone's armchair commentary about a topic that impacts like five people. Very informative.
Exactly what I was thinking
I have heard that the number of dual HBS/GSB admits is much lower than 200 (more in the 75-100ish range), and that of those who are admitted to both, >2/3 have recently gone with GSB
Can anyone with credible information verify?
This is true. Part of it is the opening of Knight Management Center. The new GSB campus is a huge draw.
The conversion rate on cross admits who visit (note slight selection bias here) is even higher.
makes sense would also guess that the general movement of MBAs into tech + Standford's tech positioning helps others?
Is all of this information just anecdotal?
Both admissions offices closely track the outcomes for the few who do not enroll.
Thanks ibleedexcel for a great topic.
A long time ago when it was less competitive, I got into both and chose HBS because I was from Connecticut and all my life I thought smart people went to Harvard. Now I live in California and I work with the career office at Stanford GSB, helping mostly first years, but some second years on their resumes. I was wrong -- the GSB is filled with incredibly smart, talented people. I've only met one person who struck me as completely average, and actually rather annoying.
Culture The two schools are culturally very different, and those who visit for about five minutes will see it right away. It's not just the weather -- by the way, Stanford is horrible in cold weather, while Harvard at least has tunnels to get you around in the winter -- but it's an ambiance. It could be grade non-disclosure, although in the first term, people still do care (old habits die hard)., and you will see that Arjay Miller scholars do get a lot of attention, at least on Poets & Quants. But it's very much a geographical difference. East vs. West. The "farm" of the Stanford campus vs. ivy-covered walls. Caltrain vs. the T. Silicon Valley vs. the eastern corridor.
Alumni Harvard is bigger and has a bigger network, but that doesn't mean that all alums will help each other. Because Stanford alums are fewer in places like Asia, or even in New York, may tend to be easier to connect with them. The larger network doesn't necessarily mean more open doors. Just something to think about.
Faculty One of the things that really struck me at Harvard was the student/faculty relationship. This has been something that is part of the HBS culture -- students and professors are really connected to each other. I don't know what it is, but I got the sense that the teaching faculty at Harvard were genuinely interested in the students as friends and as mentors.
I think the choice is always instinctive. As I said, I went because of an old belief from when I was a kid. I had applied to Stanford as an afterthought anyway, so it was never really a contender. But why not apply to both and see how it works out. You might surprise yourself, and that in itself, makes the exercise worthwhile.
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