Undergrad Breaking in to Value HF
For some background: This upcoming year, I'll be starting my junior year at a top west coast school studying Mathematics & Economics; I have a decent GPA at ~ 3.6. This past year I interned for 4 months in IBD at a pretty well-known middle market bank in the area.
I just wanted to pick your guys' brains on taking the more unconventional route to the buy-side out of undergrad. Ideally, I'd love to be at a value hedge fund that will develop my skills upon graduation. I plan on knocking out all the classic G&D/value texts within the year - I read the Intelligent Investor and am nearly done with Security Analysis and I have also been investing my PA for a couple years. I get lots of mixed answers as to whether full time IBD experience is actually necessary - some say yes, some say not at all.
What would you guys say I should do to best position myself to work on the buy-side at a value fund upon graduation? Maybe start at an asset management firm i.e. PIMCO/Blackrock? Maybe do the CFA (yuck)? Maybe embrace my inner masochist and do banking? Thanks in advance.
Call me maybe.
Call me maybe.
I hate victims who respect their executioners
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This is crazy
This is crazy
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
sofa king smooth: For some
For some background: This upcoming year, I'll be starting my junior year at a top west coast school studying Mathematics & Economics; I have a decent GPA at ~ 3.6. This past year I interned for 4 months in IBD at a pretty well-known middle market bank in the area.
I just wanted to pick your guys' brains on taking the more unconventional route to the buy-side out of undergrad. Ideally, I'd love to be at a value hedge fund that will develop my skills upon graduation. I plan on knocking out all the classic G&D/value texts within the year - I read the Intelligent Investor and am nearly done with Security Analysis and I have also been investing my PA for a couple years. I get lots of mixed answers as to whether full time IBD experience is actually necessary - some say yes, some say not at all.
What would you guys say I should do to best position myself to work on the buy-side at a value fund upon graduation? Maybe start at an asset management firm i.e. PIMCO/Blackrock? Maybe do the CFA (yuck)? Maybe embrace my inner masochist and do banking? Thanks in advance.
You do realize that PIMCO is a bond fund right - not a value Stock Picking fund
GS: sofa king smooth: For
For some background: This upcoming year, I'll be starting my junior year at a top west coast school studying Mathematics & Economics; I have a decent GPA at ~ 3.6. This past year I interned for 4 months in IBD at a pretty well-known middle market bank in the area.
I just wanted to pick your guys' brains on taking the more unconventional route to the buy-side out of undergrad. Ideally, I'd love to be at a value hedge fund that will develop my skills upon graduation. I plan on knocking out all the classic G&D/value texts within the year - I read the Intelligent Investor and am nearly done with Security Analysis and I have also been investing my PA for a couple years. I get lots of mixed answers as to whether full time IBD experience is actually necessary - some say yes, some say not at all.
What would you guys say I should do to best position myself to work on the buy-side at a value fund upon graduation? Maybe start at an asset management firm i.e. PIMCO/Blackrock? Maybe do the CFA (yuck)? Maybe embrace my inner masochist and do banking? Thanks in advance.
You do realize that PIMCO is a bond fund right - not a value Stock Picking fund
Well, despite what Bill Gross may say about the death of equities, he's a *little* bit of a hypocrit for being in the middle of raising an equity fund (with the help of one of my favorite Wharton alumnus)... that said, yeah PIMCO is totes for bonds bro.
I hate victims who respect their executioners
Follow BH & Co. on Twitter: @DumbLuckCapital
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Haha I take it the sarcasm
Haha I take it the sarcasm implies the question is obvious and/or easy to search for. I looked at 6-7 threads asking this question and the most insightful contribution was something along the lines of "facepalm".
BH, I've asked you about this before actually and you basically told me to "go for it" and keep doing what I'm doing by reading the books, etc. But while I go to a good school, no hedge funds recruit here formally.
If you guys were in my shoes, what would be your plan of action to get there sans banking?
Do the CFA. Level 1 is easy
Do the CFA. Level 1 is easy and it can only help you by demonstrating seriousness. Talk to as many people as you can reach in the industry and see if you can find a personality/investment philosophy match. Be willing to work for a small, no-name shop ("emerging manager"). Consider moving to New York where you would have more options. Look for someone who could be your mentor, irrespective of the firm or exact strategy. Network, network, network.
If you can't find an opening or a fit straight out of school, don't feel bad. Plenty of places you'd enjoy working would love to have you in a few years, but might not have the resources to train you from the ground up. Instead, go for the traditional post-undergrad role that you feel will best develop your investing toolkit. (Hint: probably not banking, unless modeling and sheer endurance are where you need the most work). Equity research, asset management, accounting, large mutual funds, and consulting are all viable options, but you need to do your diligence. Your experience and its usefulness in helping you learn how to invest will vary widely based on the people you work with and the expectations for your role. Good luck!
BlackHat: GS: sofa king
For some background: This upcoming year, I'll be starting my junior year at a top west coast school studying Mathematics & Economics; I have a decent GPA at ~ 3.6. This past year I interned for 4 months in IBD at a pretty well-known middle market bank in the area.
I just wanted to pick your guys' brains on taking the more unconventional route to the buy-side out of undergrad. Ideally, I'd love to be at a value hedge fund that will develop my skills upon graduation. I plan on knocking out all the classic G&D/value texts within the year - I read the Intelligent Investor and am nearly done with Security Analysis and I have also been investing my PA for a couple years. I get lots of mixed answers as to whether full time IBD experience is actually necessary - some say yes, some say not at all.
What would you guys say I should do to best position myself to work on the buy-side at a value fund upon graduation? Maybe start at an asset management firm i.e. PIMCO/Blackrock? Maybe do the CFA (yuck)? Maybe embrace my inner masochist and do banking? Thanks in advance.
You do realize that PIMCO is a bond fund right - not a value Stock Picking fund
Well, despite what Bill Gross may say about the death of equities, he's a *little* bit of a hypocrit for being in the middle of raising an equity fund (with the help of one of my favorite Wharton alumnus)... that said, yeah PIMCO is totes for bonds bro.
I read that letter. Wasn't he essentially talking about the death of US equities? Emerging Market eqs still going strong (Actually , Neither India nor China nor Brazil , but ... HOPE).
While we're on the subject - what are value HF interviews like? Stock Pitches? Onsite analysis of stock? etc etc -
sofa king smooth: Haha I take
Haha I take it the sarcasm implies the question is obvious and/or easy to search for. I looked at 6-7 threads asking this question and the most insightful contribution was something along the lines of "facepalm".
BH, I've asked you about this before actually and you basically told me to "go for it" and keep doing what I'm doing by reading the books, etc. But while I go to a good school, no hedge funds recruit here formally.
If you guys were in my shoes, what would be your plan of action to get there sans banking?
I think you would have a good shot (depending on where you go, if you've told me already, my apologies) at breaking in if you go for one of the larger asset management firms that have certain funds devoted to value. These are places like Blackrock, Fidelity, etc. PM me if you want to give me specifics and I can try and give a recommendation on what place would be best given your school, grades, or work experience thus far. But yeah, if you can't get directly into a hedge fund (this is really uncommon no matter where you are) then big name AM places are your best bet. Actually I'd recommend them because going straight to an HF they won't have time to teach you much and you probably won't be able to contribute, which ends up being a very contradictory learning experiece.
And to GS, interviews with these value-esque firms would usually consist of some sort of conversation about general market opinions (maybe what do you think of Europe, etc) just to see if you really do give a shit about the markets and pay attention, then maybe what sectors you're interested in, pitch me a stock from that sector, yadda yadda yadda. Then just the standard BS of walk me through your resume and all that still applies. But really an emphasis on talking about some stocks you like and maybe you're process of arriving at your conclusions about that business. Not very common to have a case study / evaluation during the interview but some places definitely would do that, just none that I can think of right now.
I hate victims who respect their executioners
Follow BH & Co. on Twitter: @DumbLuckCapital
twitter.com/DumbLuckCapital
BlackHat: sofa king
Haha I take it the sarcasm implies the question is obvious and/or easy to search for. I looked at 6-7 threads asking this question and the most insightful contribution was something along the lines of "facepalm".
BH, I've asked you about this before actually and you basically told me to "go for it" and keep doing what I'm doing by reading the books, etc. But while I go to a good school, no hedge funds recruit here formally.
If you guys were in my shoes, what would be your plan of action to get there sans banking?
I think you would have a good shot (depending on where you go, if you've told me already, my apologies) at breaking in if you go for one of the larger asset management firms that have certain funds devoted to value. These are places like Blackrock, Fidelity, etc. PM me if you want to give me specifics and I can try and give a recommendation on what place would be best given your school, grades, or work experience thus far. But yeah, if you can't get directly into a hedge fund (this is really uncommon no matter where you are) then big name AM places are your best bet. Actually I'd recommend them because going straight to an HF they won't have time to teach you much and you probably won't be able to contribute, which ends up being a very contradictory learning experiece.
And to GS, interviews with these value-esque firms would usually consist of some sort of conversation about general market opinions (maybe what do you think of Europe, etc) just to see if you really do give a shit about the markets and pay attention, then maybe what sectors you're interested in, pitch me a stock from that sector, yadda yadda yadda. Then just the standard BS of walk me through your resume and all that still applies. But really an emphasis on talking about some stocks you like and maybe you're process of arriving at your conclusions about that business. Not very common to have a case study / evaluation during the interview but some places definitely would do that, just none that I can think of right now.
Top west coast school would imply Stanford. But could be Berkeley, but guessing Stanford.
ladubs111: BlackHat: sofa
Haha I take it the sarcasm implies the question is obvious and/or easy to search for. I looked at 6-7 threads asking this question and the most insightful contribution was something along the lines of "facepalm".
BH, I've asked you about this before actually and you basically told me to "go for it" and keep doing what I'm doing by reading the books, etc. But while I go to a good school, no hedge funds recruit here formally.
If you guys were in my shoes, what would be your plan of action to get there sans banking?
I think you would have a good shot (depending on where you go, if you've told me already, my apologies) at breaking in if you go for one of the larger asset management firms that have certain funds devoted to value. These are places like Blackrock, Fidelity, etc. PM me if you want to give me specifics and I can try and give a recommendation on what place would be best given your school, grades, or work experience thus far. But yeah, if you can't get directly into a hedge fund (this is really uncommon no matter where you are) then big name AM places are your best bet. Actually I'd recommend them because going straight to an HF they won't have time to teach you much and you probably won't be able to contribute, which ends up being a very contradictory learning experiece.
And to GS, interviews with these value-esque firms would usually consist of some sort of conversation about general market opinions (maybe what do you think of Europe, etc) just to see if you really do give a shit about the markets and pay attention, then maybe what sectors you're interested in, pitch me a stock from that sector, yadda yadda yadda. Then just the standard BS of walk me through your resume and all that still applies. But really an emphasis on talking about some stocks you like and maybe you're process of arriving at your conclusions about that business. Not very common to have a case study / evaluation during the interview but some places definitely would do that, just none that I can think of right now.
Top west coast school would imply Stanford. But could be Berkeley, but guessing Stanford.
Are you talking to me? The OP went to UCLA , it's in his profile
BlackHat: sofa king
Haha I take it the sarcasm implies the question is obvious and/or easy to search for. I looked at 6-7 threads asking this question and the most insightful contribution was something along the lines of "facepalm".
BH, I've asked you about this before actually and you basically told me to "go for it" and keep doing what I'm doing by reading the books, etc. But while I go to a good school, no hedge funds recruit here formally.
If you guys were in my shoes, what would be your plan of action to get there sans banking?
I think you would have a good shot (depending on where you go, if you've told me already, my apologies) at breaking in if you go for one of the larger asset management firms that have certain funds devoted to value. These are places like Blackrock, Fidelity, etc. PM me if you want to give me specifics and I can try and give a recommendation on what place would be best given your school, grades, or work experience thus far. But yeah, if you can't get directly into a hedge fund (this is really uncommon no matter where you are) then big name AM places are your best bet. Actually I'd recommend them because going straight to an HF they won't have time to teach you much and you probably won't be able to contribute, which ends up being a very contradictory learning experiece.
And to GS, interviews with these value-esque firms would usually consist of some sort of conversation about general market opinions (maybe what do you think of Europe, etc) just to see if you really do give a shit about the markets and pay attention, then maybe what sectors you're interested in, pitch me a stock from that sector, yadda yadda yadda. Then just the standard BS of walk me through your resume and all that still applies. But really an emphasis on talking about some stocks you like and maybe you're process of arriving at your conclusions about that business. Not very common to have a case study / evaluation during the interview but some places definitely would do that, just none that I can think of right now.
Got it , thanks - SB for you!
GS: ladubs111: BlackHat:
Haha I take it the sarcasm implies the question is obvious and/or easy to search for. I looked at 6-7 threads asking this question and the most insightful contribution was something along the lines of "facepalm".
BH, I've asked you about this before actually and you basically told me to "go for it" and keep doing what I'm doing by reading the books, etc. But while I go to a good school, no hedge funds recruit here formally.
If you guys were in my shoes, what would be your plan of action to get there sans banking?
I think you would have a good shot (depending on where you go, if you've told me already, my apologies) at breaking in if you go for one of the larger asset management firms that have certain funds devoted to value. These are places like Blackrock, Fidelity, etc. PM me if you want to give me specifics and I can try and give a recommendation on what place would be best given your school, grades, or work experience thus far. But yeah, if you can't get directly into a hedge fund (this is really uncommon no matter where you are) then big name AM places are your best bet. Actually I'd recommend them because going straight to an HF they won't have time to teach you much and you probably won't be able to contribute, which ends up being a very contradictory learning experiece.
And to GS, interviews with these value-esque firms would usually consist of some sort of conversation about general market opinions (maybe what do you think of Europe, etc) just to see if you really do give a shit about the markets and pay attention, then maybe what sectors you're interested in, pitch me a stock from that sector, yadda yadda yadda. Then just the standard BS of walk me through your resume and all that still applies. But really an emphasis on talking about some stocks you like and maybe you're process of arriving at your conclusions about that business. Not very common to have a case study / evaluation during the interview but some places definitely would do that, just none that I can think of right now.
Top west coast school would imply Stanford. But could be Berkeley, but guessing Stanford.
Are you talking to me? The OP went to UCLA , it's in his profile
haha maybe i quoted wrong post, i'm running on 3-4 hours of sleep and too much coffee. Anyways someone asked what school he went to so i assumed stanford when he said top west coast. And on a side note as a fellow UCLA alumn, we are not "top west coast school" in wallstreet eyes. Not many BB come around to recruit mainly 2nd tier consulting and Big 4 accounting. Networking will be key to getting a SA at a BB from our school.
ladubs111: GS: ladubs111:
Haha I take it the sarcasm implies the question is obvious and/or easy to search for. I looked at 6-7 threads asking this question and the most insightful contribution was something along the lines of "facepalm".
BH, I've asked you about this before actually and you basically told me to "go for it" and keep doing what I'm doing by reading the books, etc. But while I go to a good school, no hedge funds recruit here formally.
If you guys were in my shoes, what would be your plan of action to get there sans banking?
I think you would have a good shot (depending on where you go, if you've told me already, my apologies) at breaking in if you go for one of the larger asset management firms that have certain funds devoted to value. These are places like Blackrock, Fidelity, etc. PM me if you want to give me specifics and I can try and give a recommendation on what place would be best given your school, grades, or work experience thus far. But yeah, if you can't get directly into a hedge fund (this is really uncommon no matter where you are) then big name AM places are your best bet. Actually I'd recommend them because going straight to an HF they won't have time to teach you much and you probably won't be able to contribute, which ends up being a very contradictory learning experiece.
And to GS, interviews with these value-esque firms would usually consist of some sort of conversation about general market opinions (maybe what do you think of Europe, etc) just to see if you really do give a shit about the markets and pay attention, then maybe what sectors you're interested in, pitch me a stock from that sector, yadda yadda yadda. Then just the standard BS of walk me through your resume and all that still applies. But really an emphasis on talking about some stocks you like and maybe you're process of arriving at your conclusions about that business. Not very common to have a case study / evaluation during the interview but some places definitely would do that, just none that I can think of right now.
Top west coast school would imply Stanford. But could be Berkeley, but guessing Stanford.
Are you talking to me? The OP went to UCLA , it's in his profile
haha maybe i quoted wrong post, i'm running on 3-4 hours of sleep and too much coffee. Anyways someone asked what school he went to so i assumed stanford when he said top west coast. And on a side note as a fellow UCLA alumn, we are not "top west coast school" in wallstreet eyes. Not many BB come around to recruit mainly 2nd tier consulting and Big 4 accounting. Networking will be key to getting a SA at a BB from our school.
PIMCO's summer associate program for MBAs seems interesting. Wonder how they let peeps in?
(Lots of bond questions obviously) And its close enough that they would come by
GS: ladubs111: GS: ladu
Haha I take it the sarcasm implies the question is obvious and/or easy to search for. I looked at 6-7 threads asking this question and the most insightful contribution was something along the lines of "facepalm".
BH, I've asked you about this before actually and you basically told me to "go for it" and keep doing what I'm doing by reading the books, etc. But while I go to a good school, no hedge funds recruit here formally.
If you guys were in my shoes, what would be your plan of action to get there sans banking?
I think you would have a good shot (depending on where you go, if you've told me already, my apologies) at breaking in if you go for one of the larger asset management firms that have certain funds devoted to value. These are places like Blackrock, Fidelity, etc. PM me if you want to give me specifics and I can try and give a recommendation on what place would be best given your school, grades, or work experience thus far. But yeah, if you can't get directly into a hedge fund (this is really uncommon no matter where you are) then big name AM places are your best bet. Actually I'd recommend them because going straight to an HF they won't have time to teach you much and you probably won't be able to contribute, which ends up being a very contradictory learning experiece.
And to GS, interviews with these value-esque firms would usually consist of some sort of conversation about general market opinions (maybe what do you think of Europe, etc) just to see if you really do give a shit about the markets and pay attention, then maybe what sectors you're interested in, pitch me a stock from that sector, yadda yadda yadda. Then just the standard BS of walk me through your resume and all that still applies. But really an emphasis on talking about some stocks you like and maybe you're process of arriving at your conclusions about that business. Not very common to have a case study / evaluation during the interview but some places definitely would do that, just none that I can think of right now.
Top west coast school would imply Stanford. But could be Berkeley, but guessing Stanford.
Are you talking to me? The OP went to UCLA , it's in his profile
haha maybe i quoted wrong post, i'm running on 3-4 hours of sleep and too much coffee. Anyways someone asked what school he went to so i assumed stanford when he said top west coast. And on a side note as a fellow UCLA alumn, we are not "top west coast school" in wallstreet eyes. Not many BB come around to recruit mainly 2nd tier consulting and Big 4 accounting. Networking will be key to getting a SA at a BB from our school.
PIMCO's summer associate program for MBAs seems interesting. Wonder how they let peeps in?
(Lots of bond questions obviously) And its close enough that they would come by
My college friends husband worked at PIMPCO for a bit and he went to a non-target school for BB, so not sure how tough their interviews are. But maybe high turnover rate so they recruit from any cali school.
Definitely untrue that UCLA
Definitely untrue that UCLA isn't a wall street target. Had dozens of friends last year lock in SA and FT offers at GS, Citi, MS etc and all elite boutiques. A couple for NYC offices but mainly LA and SF. Yeah it's a cake walk to get Big 4 but we send off loads to IBD.
About my question, anyone know anywhere that I could find a consolidated list of buy-side firms?
Doing a 2-year investment
ladubs111: GS: ladubs111:
I'm guessing the returns on
GS: I'm guessing the returns
Gray Fox: The best guys I
I hate victims who respect their executioners
Follow BH & Co. on Twitter: @DumbLuckCapital
twitter.com/DumbLuckCapital
^Really? So when you pitch
You send whats called a
Gray Fox: The CFA really