Villanova MSF Advice
Hey Guys was looking for some advice on my admission chances to Villanova MSF program.
I am a FInance and Economics Major from a small school in Florida
I have a 3.77 GPA and 640 GMAT (50% Q, 82%V) and have some work experience as an intern at Northwestern Mutual and a startup company. Was wondering how they would look at me coming from a relatively unknown school and how realistic of a shot I have to get in. Any advice would help a bunch or if you guys have any other suggestions for MSF programs to look into. My tops schools would be
1.VIllanova
2.Purdue
3.Texas ( a reach)
4.FSU
@TNA can definitely answer this for you. Check out the webinar he did two weeks back about MSF degrees.
I got into Villanova, Duke, Ohio State and Wake Forest with a lower GPA, higher GMAT also from a no-name FL school, PM me if you have any questions.
or his website
You will get in, no problem, but as a current Villanova MSF student, I would avoid Villanova like the plague. PM me if you have any questions about the program.
Do not PM this jackass. Keep your discussion out in the open so people can decide for themselves, and your colleagues can comment on the validity.
Fair enough. My complaints lie therein that the program does nothing to set you up for a job. The grades that most of my classmates received were atrocious, which was due to the program changing schedules. Most of my buddies in the program have sub 3.0 GPAs. Jobs were posted to our OCR system a few days ago. Other than BMO and Stifel, there are only accounting internships and BO jobs posted.
OP: definitely talk to other people. Reach out to other students (not sure if BepBep12 is one). I am only one of 20-something students, but I would be caught dead before applying to this program if I were you.
I know who you are son.
Wow that's surprising cause I've only heard good things about the program and have been hearing that their placement in NYC/Philly area is great. Placement is a high priority since I would be moving into a new region with no natural market. Anybody else have any opinions on it? Do you have any suggestions for possible alternatives. I'm looking to go somewhere in the Northeast.
I know @TNA went there
My advice to DeanS would be to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish with this degree. Nova has a very strong network in the Northeast, primarily in NYC and Philadelphia. The program has been around for a number of years so you have strong placements historically. Previous Nova MSF alumni are getting promoted and moving up into influential positions. We have people who've made the jump to PE, people who are VP's, full CFA charter holders, a bunch who have graduated from PhD programs.
Villanova just received CFA Partner Program recognition which means they incorporate a good amount of the CFA materials into the classes. In addition to this there will be increased CFA scholarships for students.Two years ago we won the CFA competition and went to Omaha for the US finals. We've won the ACG cup and have historically placed high every year, winning money in most. Students saw Buffet a couple years ago (myself included) and have competed in the Rotman competition as well as the CME commodity competition. I could go on and on, but you catch my drift. Lots of things to get involved in if you so choose.
So if your goal is investment banking you realistically have modest chances. These chances will fluctuate depending on how you do in the program, internships, how you network and interview and how long you are willing to hang around the hoop trying to break in. With that said there are plenty of FLDP programs, F500 companies, credit roles, public finance roles, Big 4 valuation and consulting roles, etc. I know people with a 4.0 who got banking/finance gigs and I know people with lowish 3.0's that got banking/finance gigs.
As for the summer semester. This will be changed going forward from what I hear. The program is constantly changing and tweaking to better incorporate relevant material. When I did the program we took a pure stats class from a stats PhD. After my class they incorporated econometrics to be more in line with other programs. One of the classes started using the Rosenbaum Investment Banking book as soon as it came out which I think is important. The portfolio theory two part class changed some. We had 3 classes over the whole summer, than they did 2/1 class set up, etc. A program constantly tweaking and changing.
As for difficulty. The program isn't easy. Neither is the program at Claremont, WUSTL or Vandy. We are talking about a focused, graduate level finance program. If it was overly easy I would consider it an insult to compare Nova with the other top schools. We have people with legit industry experience teaching classes. My fixed income professor was a quant at Goldman with a Berkley PhD. You have CFA's teaching classes, guys who ran shit.
And while Villanova might be harder than some other programs, it also looks at students applications holistically. Claremont is a hard program, but they also only admit people with super strong stats. Nova will take someone with a lower GPA if their work experience or GMAT offsets it and visa versa. Not every school will give others a second chance.
FYI - I was a student on academic probation my first semester. I worked for 3+ years and was a finance UG, but the pace and material hit me in the face. I doubled down, did some internships and every semester after the summer did very well, graduating comfortably above a 3.0.
Talk to everyone, do some soul searching and make your own decision. That is my only advice.
Thanks, that was extremely helpful. One other question I had was about my GMAT score. Seeing as my split wasn't favorable in terms of the quant section (50%,82%) do you think it would be necessary to take it again to try and improve the quant section or rather work on my application and turn it in as early as possible.
I don't think the split will be an issue. You should be fine.
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I was in the Villanvoa MSF program last year. Never had any schedule issues, classes are challenging to say the least. Placement was surprisingly strong, but OCR could have been better. Most of the kids landed impressive jobs through networking on their own with the Nova name.
Just a disclaimer - you won't get into banking from any 1 year MSF program unless you have previous relevant experience (intern during the year) or are a major out-layer.
Keep in eye out for updated placement stats on the Nova website. I think they will surprise some people.
In a good way or a bad way?
In a good way. There are no classes Friday and then you can easily fit in 10 additional hours from Monday-Thursday for a 20 hour minimum. I am talking about local PE/IB/asset management shops. Several people in the program were balancing both internships and classes. Of course its tough and eats away at study time, but those people did much better during recruiting.
Also, how do you intern at a bank between classes or like one day a week?
How did the placement go for international students? I hope to get a job in the US after msf, so this means a lot in my choice of school...
@CRE long lunch breaks.
Hah, class, studying AND 100 hour weeks.
I'm a current Nova student and would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have about admissions or our first semester having just been through both.
Any general advice? Studying for the GMAT now and 'Nova is on my radar for sure.
Admissions - Definitely try to reach out to a Nova adcom at some point. It was the most helpful part of the process as they are very friendly and candid about what they're looking for in an applicant. This will give you insight into what they expect from essays, whether or not to retake the GMAT, etc.
Program itself - I'm from a consulting background with a non finance UG and underestimated the learning curve and workload. This semester was a huge eye opener in terms of the workload you will be assigned and the difficulty of material. Definitely manageable though if you come in expecting the difficulty, so make sure you're ready for that.
Also WSO uploaded my google+ picture as my WSO avatar for about 5 minutes there for some reason, so anyone who identified me based on that please try to keep it a secret...
Is the first semester a busy one? Are the courses heavy in reading or quantitative stuff? Also, if you dont mind me ask, are you getting an intern now ?
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Good info guys. Nice to see so many Nova students and alumni chiming in.
I don't think the work was that challenging, just a lot stuff to do. If you're good with time management you should do fine. Nova alumni are super friendly and helpful. You should reach out to adcom and sign up for one of the in class visits to see what the environment is like. PM me if you have any questions.
nova_msf610, member for three days and 610 was the start date of the summer session that you bombed. How was networking in nyc bro?
Any advice on admissions or insight into the program in general?
Definitely reach out to adcom and sign up for one of the in class visits, just don't be weird as fuck lol. You should be able to get in with a decent gpa/gmat score, just make sure you're genuinely interested. The program has its pros and cons, but ultimately it's what you make of it. If you take advantage of all the opportunities nova has to offer and work hard, you'll do well.
Any advice on finding internships at Nova?
That I know of only 1 person has a job so far.. Recruiting season is just starting really... Internationals will always have an uphill battle with sponsorship.
Internships are doable but its tough... Classes are really demanding.. I don't know of anyone interning right now.. Some peeps are looking
I’m going to just talk generally about my experience and some thoughts I have on the program – which is essentially just our summer session.
Contrary to what WSO may think, this MSF program is not populated w/ kids seeking investment banking, not even close. People come into the program for all different types of reasons, the overwhelming majority of students are still exploring finance or coming from other areas of study / experience. Counting myself, I think there may be only 2-3 other students that are actually interested in pursuing investment banking. So if you’re strictly looking at placements, its not solely an indicator of ability or competency, but I think also a function of interest.
We got crushed this summer, if you weren’t strong in Accounting or Finance – it was a tough road to trek. The issue at heart is that we essentially took 3 classes in 5 weeks, and while the material wasn’t impossible by any means we had to chew through a lot in very little time. As ANT mentioned, this shortened schedule will be the first and the last time that Villanova will do this. I still would not recommend this program for someone that is not strong in Accounting or Finance if you’ve got to protect your GPA for F.O.-type recruiting. HOWEVER, if you’re coming from another area of study, or aren’t a strong in Accounting or Finance AND don’t need to have above a +3.5 GPA to effectively recruit, then this program should be high on your list. If you're a strong student and willing to take the risk, then have at it.
This point is really geared towards those that want to do investment banking and are using the MSF as a pivot point. You need to do a quick ‘self-inventory’ as ANT also alluded to. The program won’t undo all of your mistakes – it won’t fully erase a terrible UG GPA, lack of an internship in PE, banking, or relevant finance work experience, and general hustle. What is does offer is a chance to gain a fantastic alumni network that will bend over backwards for qualified candidates to get you into their recruitment process and some OCR opportunities. But, I think the real value is a chance to get into structured recruiting again, assuming you’ve done well GPA-wise and have relevant experience (internships or FT). This program will give you a great reason to be in front of people, if you pitch it correctly. Although its early in the process, I’ve got traction all over the street from BBs to ‘Elite Boutiques’ to top MM players. All of this is from Villanova alum, or b/c I was able to reach out and network w/ a good story that involved the MSF. For what it’s worth, I think my hit rates were about 80% when networking w/ alum, and around 60-70% when just generally networking, and cold emailing.
I think that’s all I have for now. Most of my experience is geared towards those looking to do banking since that’s what I’ve been focused on. Maybe someone in the MSF on here can talk about their experience w/ a different slant.
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I don't mind posting this - I've received a lot of help both on the board and on the phone / in person from members. I'm also not too worried about 'outing' myself, I think if you page through my posts and are comparing it to my resume it's pretty easy to identify who I am b/c my really atypical profile so all well (if you want specifics [firm names where I worked, shops I'm recruiting w/ etc., I'd be more than happy to chat offline). But, just as a disclaimer, in regards to my recruitment process thus far I've had a lot of early successes, but getting the interviews is really just the first leg - albeit an important one, but its way too early to 'call' anything yet.
But, in order to get these I knew that I needed to have real 'relationships' so my mindset when I started networking was really not about the job, but to really just talk to folks in the industry. I wanted to get a feel for the firms, work, what they identify in potential candidates, etc. If they offered to help me, I felt like that was just extra on the top, but more importantly I think its just good to have some 'friends'. I mean if I place in NY or Chicago and I'm free for some ungodly reason, I'd have no problem grabbing some drinks and seeing the city with most of my network. I started doing this in the April / May time frame when I was exiting my CF position, and sustained the effort through July. It was at this time that I began heading into NYC to meet w/ a lot of my references, if anything it was just a chance to put a name to a face and bullshit a little. I've continued to network all the way up through this week, but there's been a slight shift in my psychology now that recruiting season is bearing down on us, so w/ some of these 'last minute' efforts, I'm upfront and just say I'm recruiting for an Analyst position. I left most of this 'networking' to my reach shops, that are essentially the 'elite' banks/groups on the street. My efforts have been hit or miss, but generally surprisingly positive.
In my networking efforts, early on I was pretty candid about my thoughts about my story, and path that I had to take, but I think this was a reflection of where I was at in networking. This has since shifted, and I present a very clean and polished story that presents my experience w/ upside, and protects to the downside by avoiding negativity. Overall, when presented in a clean way my limited career path makes sense, shows that I'm at least a little thoughtful, and that I want IB. My time in CF has rarely come up, and if it does its because I bring it up I think this a function of my PE experience as an undergrad (get asked to walk through transaction on my resume), and b/c investment bankers don’t necessarily understand or care about FP&A. I also don’t really pitch the technical finance aspect of FP&A, though it has some similarities, I use it as a way to demonstrate that I basically know an Analyst has to shovel shit, and smile about it.
In this light I think my internship in PE was essential to have, you really need to have an IB or PE, or similar type finance experience to be successful recruiting out of an MSF based on my experience. Not only is it a boost to your CV or puts you on the same plain as the competition (not too much, everyone recruiting looks the same – great GPAs, relevant experience, ECs, etc.), but it gives you experience to lean on with all the fit and behavioral questions that can be asked. At ‘Nova there are plenty of opportunities to get involved w/ some local shops, but I would get one before or as soon as you start the program.
So between my networking, keeping the story clean, and having relevant experience in IB, my CF experience really takes a back seat. Hopefully this answer makes sense, its long and I think I digressed slightly, but nonetheless happy to talk offline as well.
Oh and to the OP don't write off Texas... If you have a solid story and some great stuff to build out a full profile you can get in... I got in with a GPA well under a 3.0 and a 660 GMAT..
Texas is a wildcard program... Its new so you don't have the MSF alumni to contact but the McCombs brand is NUTS... if you wanna go west or work in Texas I would go there... I talked to a headhunter back in LA when I was deciding and he said there are actually a decent number of UT guys out there, though OBVI it places mostly in Texas..
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As far as getting in goes, as BepBep12 and Calikid3820 pointed out, they take a wide array of students. Your GPA will make up for your GMAT, but I would suggest taking the GMAT again. A high GMAT would probably get you more scholarship money.
Another thing to keep in mind is location and where these MSF schools place. Villanova has a few alumni in in San Francisco and Chicago, but most are in New York. If you want to work in New York, this is something to take into consideration. On campus recruiting will also be affected by this. For example, while Vanderbilt may have Raymond James and Stephens recruiting on campus (according to students who I have spoken with), Villanova gets a lot of attention from BMO and Stifel Nicolaus (a few other banks have resume drops too, but do not come on campus). Villanova's value proposition is its location and alumni network. BepBep12 and I spent a large portion of our summer going to NY to network.
Before making up your mind, reach out to a few current students. When I was deciding between programs, that is what I did (admissions is usually happy to connect you).
EDIT: I would agree with BepBep12 and Calikid3820 as far as the percentage of students who want IB. I came into the program thinking everyone would be gunning for IB, but there really are only two or three out of 23.
Let me just comment and say the amount of students looking for banking changes every year. In the early classes it was really overweight people looking for IB. It has since moderated which I think is good since there are so many good, non IB jobs to be had.
That is interesting that it is only 2-3 this year... are you sure that is accurate? It was like 60% last year.
At the beginning of the program, we were asked if anyone is pursuing IB by our valuation professor. Three people raised their hands. From talking to my classmates, most are not interested in the hours that come with IB, while others are still discovering what careers one can pursue with an MSF. As far as those who are actively pursuing a career in finance (i.e. networking, getting relevant experience, etc.), I would say there are only two to three students. I could be wrong, though, so feel free to correct me if I am.
Same scenario in my year. literally 2-3 hands went up. People are shy and uncertain at that point.
The actual number of people that will pursue banking will be closer to 50-60%. Then the number that actually know what they are doing and have the back ground to get in will be in the 5-10 range.
Placements are posted!
http://msfhq.com/villanova-university-2013-master-finance-placements/
Anthony, please get them to update the website with these placements. They still have placements from 2011 on the website...
curious why you don't do it at UF, their program is decent with over 90% placement. Just want a change of scenery and higher tuition?
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