Tipping culture in America
I was recently in America with at first my family and then a few friends. One thing that really struck me as odd (I'm British by the way, so this is in comparison to the way things are done this side of the Atlantic) was the tipping culture. Everything was expected to be tipped, from the taxi to the tour guide to a waiter in a restaurant where we ate for all of ten minutes. A few times I declined to tip at all, this isn't me being stingy but I just couldn't, still can't, see how many of the situations warranted it. The reaction I got was actually quite unpleasant, I'd even go as far as to say aggressive, which left a sour taste in my mouth as regards to tipping.
So my question is two-fold: how can excessive tipping be justified in the US? People do their job, and get paid by their manager. Teachers don't get tipped, police officers don't get tipped, your President doesn't get tipped .. it just seems a bit queer.
Secondly, for when I go to the States again, because I don't want to piss anyone off this time, under what circumstances is tipping expected? I only ever tip in London after a good meal out.
Cheers,
If someone is serving you then you generally tip. Do what you want and don't feel obligated to tip. Cabs get a couple bucks, dinner is usually 15-20% depending on service. As for everyone else I really just play it by ear.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/if-you-tip-youre-an-idiot
As much as I hate tipping, sometimes it's handy when you want preferential treatment. Sorta like capitalism vs socialism
Waiters make probably $2 per hour without tips in the US. You have to do it. You tip waiters, bell boys, taxi drivers, bartenders, doormen, maintenance staff in your building, mailmen (Christmas gift), probably some more I left off. We actually give gifts to teachers as well. I think every parent chips in about $100 or so and gets the teacher a gift card at the end of the year.
Yeah even if you ate for "all of 10 minutes" (which probably means 20-30 minutes), you gotta tip. Those guys make like $2.15 an hour and need tips to survive. So all meals in restaurants get tips. So, yeah, restaurants 15-20%, cabs get a couple of bucks, and then play it by ear....
I always tip 20% for waitstaff without fail. I don't give any less if they were slow with refilling my drinks, seemed unenthusiastic, messed up one little thing, etc. You never know why they may be having an off night, maybe they just found out one of their parents has cancer or something, so unless they are absolutely a dick/bitch to me, I do 20% no matter what. Bartenders, taxi drivers, and miscellaneous things like that I play it by ear as to how much.
Now, something I'm not too sure how I feel about, my friends recently gave me shit for not tipping for carryout at a restaurant. Its not like a waiter, these people get paid an actual hourly rate. I don't see why I need to tip them for putting my hamburger in a bag. I really didn't think this was a thing people do, these are the only two friends who ever even mentioned it to me.
I don't tip during carryout either. Why would you. I don't know, I tip pretty well but never really think about it. If someone doesn't like having a variable component to their salary they should probably pick another line of work. No one is forcing them to work for less than minimum wage.
Why would you ever tip for carryout? So you pay them the same amount to deliver as you do for carryout ?
Here's a great PBS documentary on tippin culture in America. It’s 2013, but apparently people like Mike Jones are still tippin.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/kxapJFU3lik
+1.... they really should stop giving me SB to throw around. I just up the dumbest shit I see. It is a bad habit :(
One of my favorite songs of all time.
There are really two reasons to tip. One is fairness/not freeriding and the other is to avoid penalties for breaking the social norm. I find that tips to waiters/bartenders/delivery guys/cabs I pay out of fairness and tips to doormen, schoolteachers and the like out of fear of reprisal.
I usually tip 20%, even if the waiter isn't particularly good. Two or three times, when I knew I was going to be frequenting a place, I've tipped 300-400%. I definitely got more than my tip back in free stuff.
Is your last name Schwarzman?
Just doing my part
$2/hour as a base pay? I don't think that's legal, but I don't work in a restaurant, so I wouldn't know for sure. Are people guessing at this amount? As for tipping in the US, yes you do it in restaurants, in cabs, and a few other situations. But, generally speaking, I've found the east coast much different than the rest of the country. I'm in the midwest. A friend from the east coast, now living in MW, offered a tip to his landscapers. They were baffled. They asked him what else he wanted them to do for this extra money. Apparently on the east cost landscapers would expect this.
Tipping Hotel Housekeeping (Originally Posted: 09/18/2014)
This is a total joke and pretty embarrassing for Marriott Hotels in my opinion (link inside the post). It seems like more and more people are asking for tips for services that are not traditionally tipped. I don't think someone pouring a cup of coffee at SBUX deserves a tip, but that's just me.
I like the idea of tipping for services where it's reasonable.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/marriott-wants-maids-to-get-a-raise-through…"
I thought minimum wage laws dictate that even if your base is a certain amount, you have to make a minimum of $x/hour?
Surprise! You've already been tipping your housekeepers if you've ever left your wallet in the hotel room!
J/K.
Or am I?
I've always left some money on the bed for maids, but this shit is garbage. Like you tip for good service, but a clean room is part of a hotel experience. They should simply pay people a little more.
Traditionally you do tip housekeeping. I think it's bullshit that hotel's don't just pay them more but as long as I can remember you always tip. I agree, a tip jar for someone who pours you coffee and makes a full wage is BS, but housekeeping is traditional and I seem to remember being in other hotels where they left an envelope.
Had no idea maids were expected to be tipped. No matter what the solution, the consumer loses and has to pay more.
Fuckers. Don't tell me the proceeds off the $18 peanuts I raided at 4am or the false charge of that video of ill-repute couldn't have gone toward bumping their wage a few bucks.
Or as @"heister" would say... fuck those illuminatus-bastards
I would only tip housekeeping if I really trashed the place on a serious bender.
This is generally my rule of thumb, it's more a pity thing than anything.
I usually on tip if I am staying in a hotel for multiple nights, otherwise I'm really just tipping them for providing me with a clean room when I check-in. I'll throw down about $5 a day that they come in and tidy the place up for me, really depends on the place and how long I'm staying and how many BJs I received on the trip (which I also tip for).
You're not supposed to tip much, just a few bucks. It's nothing like 20%. Maids make such shit money that I figure throwing $10 or $20 on the desk isn't going to kill me but add up a few dozen rooms over a few days and it makes a difference for them.
$20, seems quite steep. If they do 10 rooms a day that's $200 working under the very thin guise that everyone tips. But even if on 2 of those 10 tip, that's 280 per week. Almost $1200/month in untaxed income. I'd say that's quite a lot for someone with zero skills to be making on top of their wage pay.
I've always tipped the maid staff the 1st night of a multi night stay. But that is mainly so they actually clean the damn room. This is just Marriott trying to justify "OMG LOOK AT HOW LOW OUR PRICES ARE!!!!" I don't stay at their hotels because I have always thought they were douchebags. This just confirms it.
Frankly, this low wage shit is getting ridiculous.
I wonder how long we can keep the mouth breathers placated? Like the day they realize how to use those opposable thumbs we're fucked.
But that would cause massive havoc.
Or a reverse tax credit where we pay people to not have kids.
With automation we don't need more people to keep the machine going. If anything an increased population just raises the chance of havok.
//www.youtube.com/embed/Z-qV9wVGb38
You are supposed to tip housekeepers. Somehow this rule is the most overlooked out of any sort of tipping. I almost feel bad for them because they have the shittiest job and arguably do the most work for the guest in the entire hotel while receiving the least amount of tips out of everyone.
Look at everyone who gets tipped way fucking more:
Pool girl - walks a couple drinks 50 ft. and gets $5 every time. Bell Hop / Valet - Touches your luggage (no pun intended) twice during your stay, gets $5-$20 each time. Concierge - Makes some reservations for you and gets tipped more and more often than housekeeping. Waiter / Waitress @ hotel restaurant - gets a fuckload of tips for walking your food and taking your order.
Now let's look at what the housekeeper does:
Kind of fucked up of us to not tip when you really think about it. Probably doesn't change the fact that hotels should compensate them more, though.
LOL, this. Given how shitty their job is and how little they make, the decent thing to do is give them a few bucks even if they don't do anything more than what they're supposed to do, it is not even a drop in the bucket for most people.
It's really messed up though that Marriott is trying to entice customers to pay the maids salaries so they don't have to. A tip is extra.
Tipping maids at hotels is nothing new, quite frankly I'm a little surprised at that so few people knew this. As said above its nothing crazy but a few bucks a night is the rule of thumb I've been taught. Basically just leave some left over ones or whatever on the table when you leave. That said, if its a Binder of a weekend with my buddies for some type of bparty or what not and the room is kinda a wreck, we'll leave more in the 20+ zone.
Question from a Brit: The only place I would tip here would be a restaurant where I had dined in, never for takeout, and only if the service is above and beyond what I would expect - except in a capital city where it is almost always automatically added to the bill. But even then, if the service is 4.5/10 or below, ask for it to be taken off and it will be, no fuss. The other common one is hairdressers. So, how the fuck are you meant to know when to tip or not in the US. @"CorpFinanceGuy" list of tipable services provided in a hotel seems like a fucking minefield to me. Is it literally if someone has a job, tip them? Drycleaning? Taxi? Barista? Security guard? Genuinley interested in how you would differentiate a tippable serivce from a non-tippable service when it is so ingrained in the US.....
I'd rather have it like in my home country, Italy. There is NO tip due for anything, according to social laws. Maybe stuff like rounding up to the nearest round figure in a cab, ok, but if you can decide whether to tip or not, and the guy on the other side is not going to be mad at you if you don't.
The clear advantage for me is just one: you always know how much you should pay. At the restaurant, you get a bill for 78 euros, and that's what people expect from you. If you pay cash, of course, it's nice to give the waiter 80 euros and say fuck the change, but you don't have to stay there and decide how good the service was, pick either 10% or 15% or whatever percentage of the total amount, compute it in your head, and add it to the bill. If the service is outstanding, then you tip.
This system only works if waiters etc. are paid a fair salary to begin with.
Here's my general observation on services in non-tipping countries, it sucks major ass. A lot of them have an attitude like you just took their first born and you are lucky to even have them take down your order.
@"KOTM" in my experience 20% for restaurants (dine-in only) is customary for good/average service. if they're rude, I'll do less, if they're spectacular, I'll do more. at bars in my area, at least $1 per drink is my standard if just getting a couple drinks or if spectacular service. housekeepers it's a couple bucks a night, I'll do 2-3 bucks a night unless my sheets don't get changed. been in a few hotels where the maid's hair got on something, that's a demerit too, or if they didn't replace something that was empty. get those basic things right, you get a tip. took me a while to figure out that tipping was customary (junior year of college after working at a hotel), but Marriott doing this is no different than restaurants putting a tip line on a receipt with a calculator in the folio or the tips precalculated (20, 25, 30%) on the bottom of the receipt.
here's the deal, these people's wages are deliberately held down below minimum wage. min wage was $7 something or $5.50 when I was a barback, can't remember, but my hourly was something like $3.25 and I'd get a 50% tipshare of what the bartenders made ($80-100 on a good night, but it was a small bar in a college town). I counted on those tips to make the job worthwhile. same with country club stuff, it lowers overhead for the greater organization and gives the employees an incentive to do a good job. until I got to PWM, I have never hustled like I did behind the bar or at a country club. my guess is the system was designed this way to get people to bust their asses to make more money but keep overhead down.
never worked in a restaurant in college but I've been a barback, country club jockey (cleaning golf clubs, washing golf carts, picking the range), and I've been a hotel concierge (taking the sheets off beds for the housecleaners and checking out/in customers) at a nice antique hotel by the beach. if housekeepers have this concierge, they're not dealing with the semen puke and drugs, guys like me were (puke is way worse than semen, semen doesn't stink). I was livid when I found out they got tipped but I didn't.
tldr: tip if the job is done, because their wages are artificially held down with the assumption that tips are a given. Marriott doing this is no different than a tip line at a restaurant, and yes it sucks but $10 extra for a weekend bender won't bankrupt you, but it might give Consuela's hijo a couple of meals.
Good clarification @"thebrofessor"!! Thanks.
Wait, so is it a dick move not to tip the maids for pillow fluff?
depends what kinda fluff we're talking about
I think the issue is that it is just too easy not to tip the maids. You never see them face to face so you are able to avoid the guilt of not tipping them. If you never see the maid, does she really exist? Think about it.
Working for tips is a good gig if you know what you're doing. Considering the oppressive level of taxation is Amerika, that tip is worth 130% of every reported dollar someone makes.
Adding to the tangent of tipping waiters and bartenders: the problem is, as @"thebrofessor" said, is that they're not even paid minimum wage. This is going back years but when I waited tables and tended bar my hourly wage was $2.63 (I think that was a little less than half of minimum wage at the time), the state mandated tipped workers minimum. So, not only is tipping a cultural custom but government expected that I would get tips. And the IRS knew that I was getting tips and since they didn't want that to be completely under the table, they assumed my income would be 10% of my total sales per the computer system, so I was taxed on that amount regardless if people tipped me or not. In reality my gross tips were more so in the range of double 10% but after I tipped out bartenders (when I waited tables), barbacks (when I bartended), busboys and food runners, my net was only slightly better than what the IRS made me pay taxes on. So not only was my hourly wage just a stupidly low amount but when I got my paycheck it was typically zero, or sometimes a negative number if I had a good week.
So while tipping restaurant and bar workers in the US is voluntary, it's shittier than you think because the government assumes that you will and holds these employers to different standards based on the assumption that these workers are getting tips. The difference in places like France (I don't know about Italy specifically) is that waiters there don't expect tips because they're actually paid a real wage. The extra few euros you leave on the table are truly icing on the cake. It's not like that in the US by any means.
Im Hilton Diamond and Marriott Platinum and have never tipped housekeeping. Actually I didn't know it was a thing anyone did. Though I don't tip anyone else at the Hampton Inn Akron either.
Even on vacation though--I don't need some idiot who is going to screw everything up to crash my car, scratch up my bags, or tell me where my room is. I can use Yelp and Tripadvisor to tell me the best spots to black out in town. Don't even get me started on valet-only hotels. You screw me out of $30 to make me wait 20 minutes every time I want to drive somewhere and expect me to tip on top of that? Nah. I see refusal to use these archaic services whenever possible, and refusal to tip when they are forced upon me, as a cost-efficient form of protest against their existence.
Or maybe I'm just cheap.
Fully agree. I really dont understand how Marriott Hotels has the balls to charge you 200 bucks a night for a room and implicitly tell their customers to pay a tip to their staff via these shitty envelopes. Getting a nice, clean room is part of the reason why you pay that much money in the first place...
More from our friends at Marriott, the ultimate penny pinchers
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/03/travel/marriott-fcc-wi-fi-fine/index.html…
The $2/hour pay thing is correct. Most places will require you to claim your tips to show that you are indeed being paid hourly above that and if you fall under then they will have to compensate you up to the minimum wage. I'm sure there are a bunch of nuances to this but I'm pretty sure that's the just of it.
Economics of tipping (Originally Posted: 10/07/2012)
Richard posner in ‘The economic analysis of law’ stated the following about contracts –“If I go to a store to buy a pound of rock salt, and I’m willing to pay legal tender for the salt and the store owner is willing to accept my legal tender in exchange, then one can confidently assume that the sale was worth more to me than the money and the money was worth more to the store owner than the salt. But it is easy to alter the situation and state that if I pay the owner $1 for the salt for a next day delivery, and the he fails to deliver and breaches the contract because his delivery men go on strike. Thus the true nature of contracts of law is to minimize breakdowns like above in the process of exchange. “
The above example makes it clear that for transactions where tangible goods are being exchanged, legal contracts make sense and are efficient. But when services are introduced, contracts are no longer efficient and involve a costly process in the drafting stage which make it less worthwhile. It is typically the ambiguities in the process that make it less worthwhile; for example, while delivering a haircut, it would be impossible to state the exact terms of the haircut and how many hairs would exactly be cut, at what speed etc, and no matter how granular the details are, the parties are bound to be dissatisfied and the litigation fees is bound to be costly.
Thus tipping, is one way of a service based transaction to account for transaction and contract cost. With a contract, no tipping is necessary since the contract would build such a thing in. Without a contract, both parties in a service based transaction agree to pay the fee for the service and a tip on top of that based on the buyers level of satisfaction.
As a substitution for a contract, the tip is extremely efficient and serves an important allocation efficiency purpose, since tipping, unlike anything else, is based on the social sanctions of guilt and embarrassment, but still has an important characteristic, which is penalty for breach.
If the service delivered is not what the customer felt he was paying for, he simply pays a smaller tip as a ‘ counter-party settlement’ and no other legal actions are needed. This could of course be taken to the extreme levels and a serving waiter might get ‘stiffed’ if the service is really poor. But for the most parts, if the waiter is paid a reasonable amount(which he feels is appropriate), there is likely to be no further action on his part.
(To be continued next week...) Sources: Mankiw William Scott NYU
inb4 shit show
The government should ban tipping and force diners to pay their employees the minimum wage. The increased prices will lead to less people coming into the diners to eat, and thus there will be less diners. More capital will then flow to food production as opposed to food servicing which will cut food prices across the board.
That or the increased demand for grocers' foods will result in increased prices, thus passing on the cost to the consumer. This would only illustrate yet another example of Government's good intentions resulting in inefficient outcomes.
I feel like the whole 'tipping' thing has been discussed before on WSO....
I never tip for anything.
I think the OP's argument is fine, since if Flo at your local diner will remember you, and expects a tip, that makes sense. But it ignores the fact that no one diner has an incentive to tip at a place they will likely not ever visit again or be recognized at if they do, other than the desire to feel charitable.
I don't think you really understand anything Posner says, or Contracts for that matter.
Even with tipping and informal contract has been created. You are giving the restaurant a stated amount of money for a good, the food. The tip for service is optional and at your discretion.
If people don't understand the concept of tipping they are morons. Going into the economics of it isn't going to help them.
Just know when it's appropriate to tip. Quick guide:
**This is for places with a normal cost of living, I don't know how it's done in NY/LA so... adjust accordingly I guess ***If you are a regular at a place, they provide fast and quality service, it is always a good idea to tip (if appropriate).
Food servers (they get paid shit in salary, they make their money on tips at most places) --0-10% if they're god awful --10-15% if they're bad --15-20% if they do their job --20%+ if they're exceptional --Note: you can use some discretion here. If you're getting fast food or a cup of coffee at Starbucks, a tip isn't necessary or even expected (though even a little bit is often really appreciated).
Bartenders: --$1/drink if you're not getting anything ridiculous and paying by the drink, that includes if you're buying a $2 beer --$5 on the first drink will get you great service all night, as long as you keep tipping $1/drink after that --If you have a large tab, tip depending on service. See the food servers breakdown.
Cabs --around $1-2 if under $20 --around $2-4 if under $50 --around $4-10 if over $50
Bellboys/concierge/etc --around $1-2 for most things that takes more than 60 seconds of their time --If they're providing a special service that the hotel doesn't normally provide (hookers, drugs, getting you a seat in a booked restaurant), tip like you'd want them to do it again for you.
Delivery: --$1-4 if under $25 and in a decent timeframe --$2-6 if under $50 and in a decent timeframe
Carryout: if it's a large order or they did something special/great for you, I always tip a couple bucks.
Waiter/Bartender/Service Type people Tipping & Compensation (Originally Posted: 12/29/2015)
..............
WSO doesn't stand for Waiter and Servicepersons Oasis.
......
Lol
Between 10 and 20. But I think they probably end up with 20 to 30. I normally hear about 200 to 300 a night, and I don't live in a major metropolis. (Accounting for the bullshit hours they have to work to get the right to work during the five hour windows that earn that 200 to 300.)
I'd say around 20-25 an hour. Similar to lower level salespeople.
I did it in High School and some in undergrad. Sometimes you can have really good nights ($300+), but those are offset by some really terrible ones where your parking cost more than your tips. For some reason there are just nights where all the CF's all come out at once.
lets do it!! lets turn this thread into a debate about tipping :)
What % do you tip at restaurants for the average service?
Nah, let's formulate some rankings of service industry jobs weighted by pay-prestige-work/life balance-exit opps
Hope this helps
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