What is so bad about Capital Markets?
Seems as though it is pretty sweet FO gig to work for long-term vs IBD.
Seems as though it is pretty sweet FO gig to work for long-term vs IBD.
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You have limited exit ops because you generally don't model. But the whole point of capital markets is not grinding to the point you burn out and have to exit.
Reality is there are a ton of great roles in the finance world but most people only know M&A and PE.
Ok, cool, but none of this modelling is relevant to the HF/PE jobs so many covet. Modelling isn't a goal in itself; it's simply an important skill needed to move to many buyside roles.
I come from a DCM background and the main issue as I see it is that you don't build as rigorous a financial analysis skillset as bankers nor as deep a markets understanding as traders...so you are essentially useless to buyside shops.
I had to work very hard on my own time to bridge that skills gap and make it to the buyside.
Any idea what comp is like at the mid to senior levels (obviously it varies, but is it comparable to IBD or S&T within the same institution?)
Depends on the institution and the level. People at my bank in their low to mid 30s can clear 200K + deferred compensation.
Definitely would like to hear from people in ECM or DCM comment on the thread.
Does any one here work in a IBD Capital Markets group? (Originally Posted: 12/14/2006)
Does or has anyone worked in a IBD Capital Markets group? All of you guys cant be M&A
There are a ton of threads on cap mkts already. You might find what you're looking for by looking at a few of them.
Every one explains and argues what it is(the jack you off middle office men vs the front office) but never admits to working for one.
The most relevant threads are the M&A and Lev Fin threads. I just want to know if anybody has worked in a IBD debt Capital Markets Group.
just ECM/DCM, not M&A sorry
According to Monkey Business, they're the "the illegitimate bastard child between a banker and a trader."
The way I see it: capital markets guys sorta get a grasp on companies but not like bankers, and get a feel for working with markets but not like traders
BB Capital Markets Groups (Originally Posted: 11/08/2012)
How do they stack up across the firms
Maybe think MS, JPM, GS, Barclays, DB
Been speaking to some people from 3 of these, and am definitely considering doing this for the summer (if I can get an offer). Pay is similar to IB, hours long but more predictable. Only downside is worse exit opps for the most part.
This is actually very accurate (I spent a summer in a capital markets function). You're kind of in this awkward position between the company and the markets. You might get a decent understanding of the industry vertical(s) you work with and the markets, but you won't be really good at either. When looking to take the next step in your career, it definitely is more valuable to be all in on companies or the markets, instead of "decently good" at both.
I think capital markets groups are similar to IBD rankings. Just go for the best names first, which is GS/MS and then JPM and Barcap/DB follow up afterwards.
Not sure if this is necessarily true...JPM, Citi and the like have much larger balance sheets and are much higher on LevFin and other syndicated finance league tables than Goldman and MS. You might see more acquisition financing at GS/MS which provides a much more rigorous analyst experience than a typical refinancing.
This isn't true. For DCM/LevFin, BAML and JPM are top two by far then Citi. MS and GS are M&A shops and are not as strong as BAML and JPM because they lack the retail presence and size of the balance sheet. As always, if you want to learn more, go check out the Thomson league tables.
Is that pretty much agreed upon?
Also, within Capital Markets groups in terms of exit opps-
I'm sure there are many more, but these seem to be the most common.
When I mentioned capital markets I didn't include Levfin.
If that's the case, then you should really look at not rankings but the role of the group. BAML levfin for example actually does modeling and I think JPM as well.
I don't agree with Citi levfin being top for anything but feel free to argue that alongside the other BB levfin teams that only do pricing and send you 1 obsolete page after a week of requests.
GS, JPM, and MS should all be great shops. Other BBs too...
Interested in capital markets too
It really comes down to what you are trying to do long-term. If you are wanting to get to the buyside, see the above comments as to why it will be more difficult for capital markets guys. If you're looking to be a career banker - then CM can certainly be a great choice. Just know you'll be traveling a lot more than some of the other groups and given the economics, you'll need to crank out a lot more deals each year to be on a similar comp-level to some of the other industry / product groups
Capital Markets ? (Originally Posted: 09/09/2016)
Can someone tell me what is the capital markets ? What spectrum of the Ibanking it lie...?
P.S I'm a 2nd Yr MBA student.
This board struggles with google/bing
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalmarkets.asp
Spoke to a DCM analyst working at a top bank. This kid was on his way to play soccer with his boys at 4pm during the week. He just goes "look, gotta rush because I'm on my way to play soccer at the park" while searching for his cleats and small shorts. Nothing bad working in cap markets.
Except the downfall in exit opps, if you care about that sort of thing
Capital markets, anyone? (Originally Posted: 05/01/2007)
There are a lot of discussion about IBD here -- anyone thought about capital markets? Compare to IBD, capital markets have 1) more stable hours 2) similar pay (10k lower?). But it seems that capital markets positions aren't as popular as IBD -- exit opp. not as good? What do capital markets analysts do after two years? will appreciate your input, thanx.
I thought most capital markets people are there to stay....and in some cases, capital markets IS IBD. Not in the traditional M&A industry connections sense, but hey, somebody's gotta specialize in the actual PRODUCTS that the ibank offers.
i agree. equity and debt capital markets are part of the IBD...though at times i've seen some banks have separate corp. fin. and IB divisions. Either ways, capital market analysts form a part of the product group...or so to say providers of "the market solution" that the IBs offer.
Its funny because all the FT analysts want industry coverage or M&A, but all of the associates want capital markets (even a lot of the analysts). When you want the exit, it makes sense to have the industry background, even though it doesn't really matter. You are not going to bring any unique industry/investment perspective to any fund after two years as an analyst...no matter what you think.
Capital Markets Overview (Originally Posted: 08/26/2011)
I'm sure I'll get mocked from a few monkeys on here, but I came across this video clip and think it is worth watching for anyone new to the Capital Markets industry. Might also be valuable for anyone looking for some tips regarding career advancement, etc...
Starts off with an overview of the areas within Capital Markets, and then profiles different positions within the various departments.
http://www.wcm.ca/default.aspx?tabid=10000258
Great link, thanks!
What is Capital Markets (Originally Posted: 09/16/2011)
Some IB firms have an investment banking division and a capital markets divisions. What the hell does the capital markets division do?
Wanted to chime in - As someone actually in capital markets, it is pretty easy to see why it is generally looked down upon compared to IBD. Firstly, your exit opportunities are rather limited. IB and consulting are really popular not only because they pay well, but because they provide exit opps to a variety of places. GCM is a relatively niche skillset that generally does not transfer well to other roles. You will get virtually no modeling experience and won't really get to think on the business side of transactions. You will also get a very surface level understanding of companies that you are working with as you pretty only care from a rather narrow product point of view. From what I have seen, the exit opportunities are either to traditional IBD, business school, or corporate role (though not really strategy or development). It can also become really mind numbing as a lot of DCM and ECM is very process driven and deals start being the same when you've seen the same thing 10x in a year with minimal changes. Also, to those who say to just progress in GCM, it isn't as easy as it sounds. GCM is still highly competitive and you aren't guaranteed to keep advancing especially as like others have said, people realize that GCM is a pretty decent spot to be. There are far fewer GCM roles than traditional IBD roles out there, and even fewer decent platforms which pay their GCM guys well. When you hit your wall and are forced out, where will you go that will have somewhat comparable compensation?
With that said, the the main pro of GCM is that it generally has solid work/life balance if there aren't that many issuances. Hours are 60-75/week and you generally have weekends free (although you must still be on call), but YMMV depending on your direct reports. With that said though, the hours in GCM are very intense and stressful and you will often not realize that 10 hours have passed by. What I have experienced has essentially been said over and over again on this forum, though I just wanted to say it again as someone who has capital markets experience and is not just some college student just spouting his mouth.
To sum it up: Less desirable experiences --> Less Exit Opps --> Difficult to find comparable paying opportunities
Do you mind speaking about comp in capital markets? It seems as though ER, S&T, AM, etc. get paid a little bit less than IBD. From what I've read they tend to get 100-110K all in (including bonus) for 1st year hires. I know that BB IBD is 85k base but an upwards of 60-70k bonus if you're a top bucket.
Generally street. Not sure how it performs past analyst level, but I heard associates is pretty in line with street at my firm too. I imagine that comp probably falls off a bit at the higher level, though I have heard of multi millions (over 3) being paid out to very strong MDs, but that is probably a massive outlier.
top right corner. thing called a search function. use it.
Capital Markets is a desk that enables you to go fucking search for shit
troll
kid as 200 BPs, sufficient to at least know what capital markets is.
Im an underclassmen in college and I've been really leaning towards ECM as a career but everyone I talk to just shoots it down because of "no exit opps and no modeling". Tbh I kind of like being able to have a good mix of company/market knowledge and some type of banking experience, especially in an ECM Originations team. Also the pay and hours are pretty nice for FO, especially compared to traditional banking.
Only concern I have about ECM is if you're more senior like a VP, if you get laid off would it be much harder to find a job at another bank? and are ECM guys really the first to go when banks cut down on staff? Any guys w/ ECM experience would be great.
I've also read that if you're in ECM you can probably make the jump to a long/short equity fund if you're good, how much truth is there too that, because I'm also very interested in the PM role at a HF wayy later down the road?
Capital Markets Outlook (Originally Posted: 03/02/2015)
I would like to know what you guys think of the next 3-5 year outlook for equity and debt capital markets.
Do you think the IPO market or debt issuance will be more robust near term?
How does the now 6-year bull market factor into downside risk for debt/equity issuance? Does ECM or DCM have, in general, more career upside / prospect for a career in banking? How will long-term shifts in macroeconomic and technology trends (10 years+) affect capital markets roles?
My opinion is that due to increasing globalization and economic interconnectedness, and demand for growth capital, equity markets will become an increasingly valuable "niche" product that will experience great demand for professional specialization. I think it will draw a lot more talent than it has historically compared to other banking groups / products.
Please feel free to share all opinions, thoughts, and ideas. Thanks.
bump
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