What shot do I have at a top 5 MBA?
-3.72 GPA at non-target state school; accounting and finance double major with Latin minor
-CPA
-two years experience as an analyst at an MM firm
-spent two years working in the Peace Corps' Business Advising program in Africa (after the analyst stint)
-run a small business of my own (no huge profits or anything, but have been running it since sophomore year in UG)
-710 GMAT
Do I have a shot at a top 5, most notably HBS, Wharton, or Booth? If not, what can I do to better my profile?
3.50%
You definitely have a shot- but it will all come down to the references. Would be nice if that GMAT were 30 points higher, but you are definitely within the range of the top ten schools.
I think your chances will be better at Wharton and Booth. They're slightly less selective, the students are a little bit older, and they focus more on GPA than university, trajectory rather than pedigree. This is particularly true for Chicago. They seem to care much more about how you played the hand you were dealt rather than what hand you managed to pick up than the other schools, and they give a lot more "unprestigious" but hungry students a shot than you would think the country's #1 business school would.
One of the top 5 schools if you apply to all - probably 50-90%, maybe more or less, depends on your essays. That is a pretty solid profile.
My only concern is that I don't know how to translate Accy GPAs into Engineering GPAs. In Engineering, a 3.7 GPA is 2.5 standard deviations above the median (The median is typically a 2.8-3.0 at most state schools.) In Accy, the median GPA is more like a 3.5, and I don't know what the standard deviation is.
If OP is 1.5 standard devs above average at his school, he has a fairly solid profile. If that's the case, I agree with the 50%+ assessment and would recommend he put a lot of work into his essays on the Booth application. With Harvard's selectivity, they are a 30% shot for even the strongest applicants, and the GMAT signals that the OP may not quite be in that group, though he can still make for a very competitive candidate.
I know this varies immensely from school to school but a 3.5 median gpa seems really high. I believe my school's (private) median accounting gpa is around a 3.0 and I had always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that most state schools had around the same if not lower median gpas.
You've got yourself a very nice profile. As Illini pointed out 30 (ideally 40) extra points on the GMAT would make you very tough to reject. That said, I don't think you need to take it over. My opinion is that in your situation it is going to be the essay that makes all the difference. You are obviously not from a silver spoon background, but you have achieved a great deal. Though this particular forum does not value it much, a CPA is a great designation to hold. I also think that the Peace Corps gig is the key to your whole profile. How can you tie in what you were doing before it (along with your entrepreneurial venture) into the overall picture you are trying to paint for admissions committees.
Age and credential wise, you are very much the standard strong candidate. I will reiterate once again that a good framing of the Peace Corps experience can make or break your application.
Good luck
>I thought HBS's average age was low 20's to about 27.
Yes. But even as a 27-year-old, you're going to be at a bit of a disadvantage.
>The MM firm was fairly small and not in NYC (think Southeast). Does that matter? What is preventing me from having a better chance?
I really really hate this and don't agree with it, but here goes:
1.) Your experience was at an MM rather than a BB. (I know, it's ridiculous.) 2.) You don't really have a niche and are instead up against a bunch of guys from PE shops who did their IBD stint at Goldman or Evercore. 3.) You have a non-target undergrad. 4.) The southeast gives you a slight niche advantage, but I'm not sure it's really enough. It's not like coming in from being an actuary or an engineer or a trader. You're in a rather crowded category.
All of this shapes up to tell me that you're going to be a much more competitive candidate at Chicago and Northwestern and perhaps Penn. You have a 3.74 GPA. You have stellar recs from your MM. A lot of this really comes down to luck, but you come off as the kind of guy who can play whatever hand he's dealt extremely well, and Chicago or Northwestern knows that if they hand you an MBA and finally give you a really strong hand, you're going to be able to go out there and kick butt.
You definitely have a good shot at Harvard, but your profile at first glance makes you a much more competitive candidate for Penn/Chicago/Northwestern. And if you get into Chicago but not Harvard or Stanford, it's no real loss anyways because Kellogg/Booth/Wharton get ranked higher by hiring managers in consulting, executive management, and finance, anyways, respectively.
Generally agree with Happy. You're on the strong side in terms of candidates and if it's possible to say so for anyone, there's a likelihood you'll get into a top five school. I do have some reservations about his view that any test score can make it hard for a school to reject you. And I strongly agree that you have the frame the peace corps experience well.
Congratulation on your GMAT score. With this score you can easily aim at top institutes Like Harvard Columbia and Wharton. So we would advise you to work on your application now.
Academically you are in a good position. However it is not just the academics but beyond the academics that will help you in determining your candidature. Start thinking what makes you unique and what’s that ‘hook’ that will be key to your application.
Generally most of the applicants have good 4-5 years of work experience. Although it is not just the work experience that counts but also what you did there like-what were your achievements, what initiative you took, what changes you drove in your workplace etc. So if you can show that in 4 years you have demonstrated the skills business schools are looking for you could put in a strong set of essays.
Thanks
Kavita Singh FutureWorks Consulting
I would agree with one of the above posters in that you are certainly in the ballpark, but will really need to sell yourself and your experiences in your essays AND land some strong letters of rec. Your best bets would be Chi and K for sure, W would be more of a stretch and H and S would be longshots. Here are my quick thoughts:
Non-target vs all of the target people that are gunning for the MBA spots who all (or at least most) have GPAs of 3.5 or better
Working at a small shop is not the same as a BB or elite boutique OR those that worked in IB and then moved on to PE - again the caliber you will be competing against
PeaceCorps is awesome - but you REALLY need to sell why you made that move, how it benefited you and, ideally tie it or at least the skills gained to your future goals - otherwise it looks disjointed and as if you are just bouncing around.
GMAT is good and won't hurt you, but it isn't high enough to help - 730-740+ gets in the high range as it is above their average - however, a 710 is a great score and won't hurt you.
You didn't mention ECs, besides your business, but ECs will definitely help you, especially in some leadership positions with a bit of a track record will help to set you apart.
PM me if you have other questions
dislaimer: this is TOTALLY arbitrary, (though I actually believe it)
Harvard / Stanford: 5% chance at best.... closer to 0% though if you're not a URM Wharton: probably a 10% chance... definitely worth a shot, but you'd have to get lucky Columbia/Booth/Kellogg/MIT: like 20% each school.... apply to all and you may get 1
Michigan, Duke, NYU, etc: very solid chances
From a practical standpoint, we need to focus on ranking the best schools by odds of admission and graduate quality rankings. And the odds of a Stanford or Wharton admission are irrelevant if they're smaller than the odds of a Booth or Kellogg admission since Booth ranks better.
So key key key here for the OP is getting strong recs and showing that he's the kind of guy who can win at Texas Hold Em with a 2 and a 7. Freshwater schools care much more about what you can do with the hand you get dealt and how hungry you are than anything else.
you have a shot at every school in top 10... dont retake your gmat and focus on your story and essays
buddy with mine with very close profile and lower gmat is heading to HBS in the fall. While only one case he was not some oddball just an overall strong ap as you are
OP - have you tried posting on Ask Alex (MBAApply) or Stacy Blackman's threads? They have looked at hundreds of profiles and can offer you their view too.
Kanon, thank you for the suggestions. I just did.
Illini, thank you for all the help. What in your opinion is a strong recommendation?
If I retook the GMAT and scored 740 or 750, how much would that improve my chances? Several prep programs have a money-back guarantee if you do not improve 50+ points, so I think it is worth a try.
Thank you again, everyone. I really do appreciate your help.
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