What's the point of it all?

It's only happiness, right?

Perhaps your definition of success was skewed early on in your life influenced by parents, other peers, etc. and you've just now come to your own notion of happiness and success.

My thoughts? You can do the whole leave banking and try out your friend's lifestyle, but I'm willing to bet after 1-2 years of doing that you'll find it unfulfilling as well. Bankers typically do tend to have the innate nature of being competitive, productive, and driven which qualities you definitely seem to possess given your past history. Maybe you should try another career with finance (i.e. Corp Fin at an F500) that may not be AS time consuming and would allow you the flexibility to do things you truly desire while inculcating your "banking" nature.

and as a college student have been torn between career decisions b/c of it. If you could go back and do it all over again, would you do it differently? Have any good advice? Thx

Paradoxical

Well that's exactly the problem. Both society and common sense may dictate that qualities such as intellect, competitiveness, productiveness, ambition and drive are positive qualities in a person. But resultantly we are probably much less happy in life than a 'simple' person who is content with a simple job and low paypacket. I see on Facebook a lot of school friends doing mundane jobs in small towns but through their statuses ("Danni is drinking a bottle of wine tonight!!! :D" "Bob is going to the pub!!") it seems they're a lot more happy in life than us more intelligent, more ambitious, more driven banker types. Meh.

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23yr old Associate

I was sold on i-banking until I realized that even the MDs have pretty shitty work-life balances - they still log ~60 hrs/week and even though they can make a shitload, they build up so many liabilities - living in expensive cities, expensive home, good schools for kids, etc....they sort of trap themselves in; they have to bring home that paycheck.

This is a deeply philosophical thread; I think happiness should be your first priority - I don't see why being competitive or elite necessarily implies you have to live focused solely on your job. I consider myself extremely competitve, but I find other outlets - exercise (triathalons and marathons), intellectual disputes with my friends (ie - who has read what), personal growth, etc.

I think finance will reach a point of critical mass someday, where the smartest people finally say 'Fuck this - there is no reason we can't work in this industry and have decent lives outside the office'; unfortunately, as long as there's another guy willing to do your job, that day won't come

Although im not a banker, I know what you mean. I have a friend who worked hard in school got in a top uni, then a BB. He works 7 days a week comes home in the morning and is too tired to screw his gf, he sits and plays video games.

Then i have a friend who slacked off in school,dropped out of community college went to spain. Now he is the envy of everyone I know. He makes a comfy salary in euros and chills on the beach with hot girls all day long. His life is truly fulfilled while the banker will be miserable for a much longer time.

Whoa whoa whoa...Too tired to screw his gf? There might be a deeper problem there then just normal tiredness. I'm betting on the gal pal being rather uninspiring in the sack or him finding video games more satisfying than sex (which is ok, i presume, unto each their own).

he likes his video games. However the gf is not bad looking at all.

Here is the truth of it all. Ultimately, there are a few kinds of people in this world. As a poster said earlier, we were taught to believe that being intelligent, competitive, etc. are all good qualities to have and that money is important. The news flash is that it is important. For some reason, rarely anybody I speak to ever sees a middle ground between money and life. On the one end, we have ibankers/finance types and their high salaries which has led to a sacrifice in a better lifestyle. On the other, we have the kid who went to Spain and is living it up and doesn't really need that high paycheck. In between, we have people who just settle for what they make and live regular lives. So what should an individual do? It almost sounds like you cannot win - you either have life or you make money. But the luckiest ones do both. An easy example is Warren Buffett who does what he loves and makes money. The reason why I bet you he is so happy and successful is because he enjoys what he does. He doesn't see it as work in the traditional sense of the word - instead, it's what he probably would do if given a choice to do something else. Because he enjoys it, he is the most successful at it.

So maybe the lesson isn't about giving up one or the other but trying to figure out what we are good at. I have tons of friends that entered Ibanking for the money and hated it. But I also have friends who chose to go to Spain (for example) and got bored of living that lifestyle. We, as individuals, need to stimulate ourselves. We shouldn't be driven by money but by what we enjoy. I am a firm believer that if you do what you enjoy, money will follow. That is my 2 cents.

In high school/college, Did you do outside research/work without any underlying motive?

I found that these are the guys who genuinely love what they do. The junior in high school reading Yahoo! Finance in his free time or the college freshman playing around in Excel not for an assignment.

You know, it ridiculously easy to say " I wish I had that life" Why don't you actually do it? Leave your job, take a course in bar tending and move to spain. You seem like a smart guy, i'm sure any sensible bar would hire you.

So, this friend of yours, Do you have any idea what he's gonna do once he retires? What is he going to do when, or if, he gets married to support his family? How's he gonna pay for his kids education? Whats he gonna do if he has any health problems? What the HELL will he do if he screws up and gets fired?
Ever thought about that?

I dunno how you guys think. For me, anyone who thinks this friend has a better life is just immature and screwed in the head

Firstly, I already said I wouldn't be able to bugger off to Spain and live his life because my personal qualities, deemed positive by society, would probably make me bored.

As for your second point, if you step out of the Wall Street bubble and enter the real world, you'll realise the vast majority of families in the western world get by fine on very modest paypackets. State education is free and can be very good quality in many places across Europe / USA. Healthcare is also free in most countries and people live on average to 70-80 relying on their public health service. With a modest lifestyle his small annual savings could afford a comfortable retirement. And its very ironic you say he'll be screwed if he gets fired, when in fact the papers over the last week have reported how screwed the ex-Lehmanites would be for their monthly mortgage bill if they didn't get this month's paycheck. All this further strengthens my point - working hard, stressing out, balding / gaining grey hairs for money, which is often wasted on needless, pointless things that don't hugely increase someone's happiness in life - a $1000 bottle of wine instead of a $10 one, is there really any difference? A $200k car instead of a $20k one both getting you from A to B?

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23yr old Associate

DEAR BOY: I am edified with the allotment of your time at Leipsig; which
is so well employed from morning till night, that a fool would say you
had none left for yourself; whereas, I am sure you have sense enough to
know, that such a right use of your time is having it all to yourself;
nay, it is even more, for it is laying it out to immense interest, which,
in a very few years, will amount to a prodigious capital.

well like you said as well as others did, different people have different goals in life. With that said, from the looks of it you seem like a very successful guy, and you shouldn't be too concerned with what others might be doing. Be grateful that you have made it this far in life where most people would be dreaming to be in your shoes. If it does become tiresome maybe you should consider a career change.

Personally I was raised around a family of doctors, so seeing my father having to deal with the crazy hours growing up was normal in my household. But it certainly paid off down the road, and he managed to put me and my brothers in a position where we can get a good education and hopefully make something of ourselves in the future. I guess what I'm trying to say is that in the end it all boils down to what kind of person you really are. Some people genuinely love their work no matter how tedious the hours can be, or they might be concerned about putting their families in a good financial position (as in the case with my family).

cheer up man...you've done well for yourself

I think people can genuinely 'love' finance as much as you can 'love' any other intellectual pursuit - literature, science, medicine, history, etc.

That said, I don't think a lot of people starting as IBD (or any division) analysts really understand what they're getting into. In college, we were taught that we'd be modeling, making optimal budget decisions, gauging markets, doing research, etc....

then you find yourself knee deep in pitch books, credit agreements, administrative BS, etc - stuff that really doesn't require a prestigious degree; really just a lot of patience and stamina. How much 'finance' do we actually do in finance, at the jr level? Granted, being a jr person is a learning and screening process, but a love of markets and investing isn't enough - you've got to bite your lip a lot.

dude, no ones asking you to buy $1000 wine or drive a $200.000 car. You don't have to subscribe to all of that. I personally know several humble, frugal bankers who're raking in millions, but have put their money to better use.
But if you really don't like banking,well, don't do it. Use your brilliant personal qualities elsewhere. work in another industry,start your business, start a non-profit, work for the govt. There are opportunities everywhere that you can make use of. Don't waste your talent, the world needs you to do something, we need people like you to lead us.

I just cant stand the fact that you want to trade lives with a useless, high-school dropout who, in your eyes only, seems to be leading a good life. Believe me when i say this, he is NOT leading a good life, its just what you think. Everyone has problems,yes even bartenders

just be a lifestyle banker - move to california.

Ignorance is bliss. Just from his Facebook profile I can gauge he is probably more content and happy in life than me. Status updates always something 'simple' but jolly regarding drinking / basking in the sun / partying. Every pic he seems completely genuinely happy. Sure you could say people put on a 'front' but I know him, he's a 'simple' person, easily pleased, and seems overall 'happier' than I am - currently sat here on my own late at night doing crushing, tedious, thankless admin work because my analysts refuse to do it.

I'm not necessarily saying I would want to switch places with him right now if I had the option. I'm just sorta wanting to highlight the irony of it all.. at the end of the day I feel that personal happiness in life is the most important thing. And I think a 'simple', easily pleased unskilled layabout is possibly more likely to achieve that than an overworked, stressed-out Wall Street banker who's worked 50x harder to get where they are!

===
23yr old Associate

just do M&A at a corp 500. easy hours, still decent pay. Find one headquartered in a sunny state. Done.

I'm not in banking, but one of the bigger concerns of mine is that there is just no time to FIND the job that you love. Sure I enjoy financial things, analysing stock and all. I also like graphic art, architecture, woodworking, engineering, rock climbing, and a slew of other junk. There just seems to be no good way to determine prior to entering an industry that you will enjoy it and find happiness.

you give it your best shot. You try not to sign up for any long term commitment. (like me and 7 years in the army...) If you're smart and not totally against risk taking, you could do a bunch of things in succession.

The thing that holds a lot of people in place is acquired lifestyles that link directly to paychecks. Many of the interests you will not have similar salaries. Going down is hard if you're used to living a certain way, have goals of saving a lot, or are looking at money as justification for your existence.

I think you really have to enjoy the work to some extent, and the learning curve (at least on the analyst level...) When I worked in banking this summer - yea doing formatting and pitches for 12 hours a day really did suck and made me question if banking was for me. But for the few hours that I got to listen in on conference calls with CEOs, and to have an Associate teach me some modeling and run me through some live deal stuff - that was exciting, and made it worthwhile. Every job out there has a degree of bullshit, and you are kidding yourself if you think your buddy has it 100% right - don't get me wrong though, I think to each his own and if he enjoys his lifestyle, then all the better.

But for motivated individuals, who want a challenge, I highly doubt sitting on a beach all day would really fulfill that, and they would quickly get bored. That said, I can understand you're frustration, since I felt that way for a few days over the summer, but it's really about keeping your head up, and surrounding yourself with the right friends/family (when you can..)

1. Career risk vs. reward - Jobs that are fun and not too stressful often lack career paths, which can lead to dead ends. I know guys who spent their whole careers in the public sector (education, state/US govt, etc.), and they have zero risk, and a nice, safe retirement, but they go through some serious "quiet desperation" years, and suffer a lot of indignities as they deal with slow-moving, inefficient, bureaucracies.

2. In IBkg, chances are you'll be laid off sometime during a bad business cycle. In that sense, you're dealing with your career risk, right up front. Reinvention of your career is a bitch, but no path that gives you much in the way of money is immune to that. In IBkg, we're just facing that head-on.

3. At some stage in your life, you're going to have sort of a stagnant five years or decade - Ever wonder why CEOs are so often in their 50s or even 60s, in most industries? It's because no one has a straight-up career path. There's always a period (sort of a middle mgt stage) where you're sort of coasting, and put the energy into your personal life - - getting married, having kids. The exception is IBkg, where C-level executives are often in their 40s, with no slow periods in their 30s. Once they get to the top, they never last 20 years in the top jobs (Fuld at Lehman is the exception). Most last into their 50s, get fired or retire, and have their fallow decade then. No avoiding it. (Then it's time for their "reinvention.")

I guess my point is that we're a capitalist economy, a service-based economy, and nothing's likely to change that. I believe that a career without enough risks taken, can really lead to a lot of regret later. It's a risk to work 70-80-90 hours a week, and have less of a personal life, but it's a risk to wake up and find your job outsourced, as well.

Money isn't everything, but the skills you develop to actually get you into IBkg, and help you survive, are a skillset you really need to have anyway. At least, as an educated person, trying to go for a good standard of living.

I think successful people can attain the power to really help out others who were not as privileged as us to be born in a developed country and enjoy the benefits of healthy living conditions and abundant resources.

If you don't live lavish and make substantial charitable donations to those in need, wouldn't the good deed brings you satisfaction to your life? Look at Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. Their mass fortunes are going to safe millions of people around the world. You can become someone like them one day, but your friend who's slacking off and living it up certainly won't.

And who ever said you couldn't live it up and be pimpin' like your friend after a several years? You'll have the smarts and the money. And guess what, you can continue to get hotter women no matter how old you are when you're ballin'. But your friend on the other hand will see the end of his lifestyle soon once he gets old and broke...not attractive to women, especially the high maintenance super-hotties that you're picturing rightnow (unless his game is so incredible but how often do you see that?)

Anyways keep your head down and keep working smart. It'll always pay off...just a matter of when.

Don't be so sure.

Um, yes.

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23yr old Associate