When will the anxiety about success stop??

perfectly normal

Ughh I can totally relate. Im in undergrad.

I struggle with secretly competing with everyone around me, in addition to struggling to decide whether to pursue a lucrative career or pursue my current relationship and fully enjoy love and the happiness. But then my mind is like eff that, I should pursue a career and worry about marriage when im 30.

But really what is the point of pursuing a career where you work your life away and miss opportunities to build a life with someone or just enjoy life in general.

I mean im sure the average American idiot doesnt know what Mck/Bain/BCG are... so who am i impressing haha

hope this made some kind of sense , its 3am

Congratulations on getting the job! I think what you're describing is perfectly natural. I'm wondering though - is it possible that you aren't 100% sure about your decision to take the job? Is it possible that the reason you're trying to one up your friends is because you want to prove to yourself you made the right call? Anyway, I echo the previous poster's sentiments about helping others out. Strangely enough, I've found the more you give the less you remember your own problems..

Obviously I am no psychologist but my friends and myself have all gone through something similar. Below is a list of a few reasons that might be causing these feelings. I hope my post gives you some sense of comfort going forward.

1. You feel like you need to prove something to someone. Maybe you are hoping you'll get validation from a certain person? You've mentioned this in your post; think about the reasons for why you do certain things.

2. The environment you are in is causing this. Being surrounded by driven people makes it much harder for you to stand out and it's hurting your sense of self worth. I hope this is not the reason because its one of the fundamentally hardest things to change and mostly comes with time/maturity. Remember, you should be working to live rather than living to work. Also breaking into IB is quite the accomplishment, but your pre-med/history/etc. majors will not understand what this means. To them, it's a quick congratulations and then you all return to talking about the new Breaking Bad episode.

3. This website is filled with prestige whoring college kids. The kids who feel entitled to certain "top groups" because they have good grades at a "target". I had offers at some of these top shops but eventually went with another firm that is not considered on the same prestige level. I felt really unsure about my decision until I started working. One of the main reasons I chose my firm is because I had tons of senior leadership ready to bat for me if I ever needed it and it was the best decision I made career wise looking back.

Ask yourself why talented senior bankers are "lower" BBs have stuck out with their respective firms. They simply do not care about "prestige" and understand that their accomplishments are what people look at rather than where they work. I would bet my life that these bankers could easily leave to join GS/MS but what would be the point? The work would be similar and they would have to relearn the inner workings of the firm to get promoted.

I know this has been said repeatedly but I'll say it again, don't pay attention to the discussions about top shops/etc. The bankers that end up making the most money are the ones that start up their own firms and that occurs much later in one's career.

4. The opportunity cost of working at one place over another. In the back of your mind, you might be thinking that "x" firm will give you a better opportunity than your current firm because of that perceived additional prestige. I mean this opportunity cost can never really be quantified so what is the point in focusing on it? Just do well wherever you work and you'll be fine not only career wise but life wise as well (since you enjoyed your summer experience so much).

TL;DR: Enjoy your senior year with a job offer in hand and try to limit your time on this site until you're in the work force and can give back to other.

pop tart ice creams are amazing.

Having a job offer in hand before your senior year starts is the closest to a license to kill that you will have for the rest of your life. Think about that for a minute. That you're doing so with the place that was really your first place choice is really just gravy.

I think you need to learn how to deal with stress more effectively. You said the past year was the most stressful in your life. Do you have kids? Do you have aging parents that you need to support or that are dying? At some point you will likely have both while working full time. Then imagine you lose your job while you're taking are of both your kids and parents (it's happened to a lot of people). Just trying to put it in perspective, so you can think of ways to react to your environment differently instead of stressing out so much. Pressure will generally become higher as you get older, but most people are a little bit better at handling it.

Good luck.

You sound like an 8th grade school girl that cares more about what other people think. It also sounds like you've never been through the trenches where you're best constantly isn't good enough. Like others have said, nobody gives a nut sac where you work, except the prestige whores on this forum that want a job there. Better shape up real quick or you'll end up as a douchy MD.

When will the anxiety stop? When you choose to stop.

SirTradesaLot:

Having a job offer in hand before your senior year starts is the closest to a license to kill that you will have for the rest of your life. Think about that for a minute. That you're doing so with the place that was really your first place choice is really just gravy.

I think you need to learn how to deal with stress more effectively. You said the past year was the most stressful in your life. Do you have kids? Do you have aging parents that you need to support or that are dying? At some point you will likely have both while working full time. Then imagine you lose your job while you're taking are of both your kids and parents (it's happened to a lot of people). Just trying to put it in perspective, so you can think of ways to react to your environment differently instead of stressing out so much. Pressure will generally become higher as you get older, but most people are a little bit better at handling it.

Good luck.

This is great advice.

The unfortunate truth is that life will always be a status game. Humans have always lived in a world of scarce resources and competition, and this is how we go about things. Kids at my high school bragged about who was poorer and more "hood"; kids at my college bragged about who had come from a wealthier background; investment bankers brag about their "deals"; consultants, their "engagements". Housewives like to compare what novels they're reading. It never really ends, and anyone that tells you otherwise is probably trying to manipulate you or has given up.

The good news is that there is no need to get stressed about this shit; you shouldn't even be thinking about this shit. You mention that you're surrounded by the smartest and most driven kids at your school. That's great, but maybe you should take a step back and hang around a different crowd, especially now that you have an offer in tow. Personal experience has taught me that while the "smartest and most driven" kids are busy comparing job offers and talking about prestige, everyone else is getting laid.

On a side note I would highly recommend taking cold showers. Helps with bad moods.

1.) Success doesn't matter when it comes to good friends. One of my best friends from college works at a facility for the mentally disabled. We still grab a beer whenever I am in town.

2.) It is normal to be stressed out about the prospect of moving to a new city and having to make new friends.

3.) It is normal to be a little nervous your senior year of college in the same way you were a little nervous your senior year of high school. As Americans, we tend to identify ourselves by what we do, and well, your identity is going to change.

4.) Life is better when you don't have to be competitive. Actually, it is fun to be just competitive enough to troll the hyper-competitive people that drive everyone crazy by accidentally beating them at something they were working really hard at in a Mr. Magoo-looking way. If you keep on acting competitive, you deserve to have one of your dumber, less successful friends land at a PE shop straight out of undergrad and shove it down your throat (by accident.)

Seriously, it is HEE-LARIOUS to go up to someone and go "Oh, you did all that work to prove you were better than me? Whoopsy! That kinda got wasted." So be a nice person and at least avoid being competitive with your friends.

Basically, you are in a very achievement-driven environment, and you already won. You got your dream offer early on, but I am getting the sense that now you feel like the dog that caught the bus. You are probably thinking "OK, now what?" Do you think the reason you keep reminding your friends/classmates of your offer is because you feel like there isn't anything left for you to achieve? Do you feel like you are stuck on the sidelines now watching everyone get their offers without having a goal of your own to chase down?

If the above feels true, the there are pretty much two options here. You can use the remaining year to try to accomplish something else meaningful to you (as others have suggested, maybe through volunteer work).

The other choice is that you just tell yourself that there will be plenty of opportunity to achieve things at your new job and just enjoy what will probably be one of the last care-free years of your life. Notice the shift in mindset here. It means you are making a conscious choice to not play the game for the remainder of the year, thus you don't have to remind others of your success.

I don't think it is wrong for you to feel this way. I think you just link achievement very strongly to your self-identity, especially in your current environment. And it is probably killing you that there is nothing left to achieve for the next year. Hence why you keep reminding everyone of your offer.

You're feeling bad now, wait till life actually gets tough or the shit hits the fan.

The prestige game is dumb and life too precious to be wasted on it. Find something you like doing and then do it. The rest is just noise.

If you need specific help, try training yourself to relax. Everytime you're about to try and "one-up" anyone, just remind yourself - "I've got a GREAT offer, so who gives a shit." It works if you are consistent.

Most of my acquaintances who are doing very well today are the ones who never really cared too much about stuff and weren't insanely competitive. They did whatever needed to be done and that was it. The neurotic ones didn't do so well, despite their stellar academics (and stellar initial performance at work.)

As an aside, the guy who is getting paid the most of my entire class is someone who used to smoke weed like there was no tomorrow. So maybe try that lol....

I really have never had this problem as i wish the best for my friends and when i see someone doing something i would like to do my approach is to try to learn how they did it rather then to be jealous or envious. If u want to waste your life on envy you can ALWAYS find someone to be jealous of so that will never end if you go down that route. I also am very competitive but with myself rather then against others...ie whether its work, fitness, or anything else i just strive to always be improving rather then to beat other people.

There is an overwhelming level of douchebaggery in this thread. Please try to take this the right way. I'm not being mean - this is just a public service:

Stop being a douchebag.

Boom. Problem solved.

Sounds normal for a target school student. I would not worry about that. It will never stop.

You'll figure out that your true friends are the people who genuinely want the best for you. Hang out with those people. Resist playing the preftige game and just focus on what you actually find fulfilling. Although some people seem to find fulfilment in playing the preftige game... tough spot. Oh, and what CRE said - don't be a douche.

It only Stops when you stop caring, until then you'll always find something else to compete on.

Also just for clarity, you are definitely not hanging out with the smartest guys on campus, bankers/consultants are above average but very far from fucking smart.

Chances are, if you're setting your career/whatever goals based on the people around you, you're not setting them all that high. One of the joys of the internet is that it's that much easier to see what top performers in any given field are doing. But if you look at things from a competitive vantage point all the time, you'll completely miss what people around you have to offer. If you meet an A&R rep, does working for a hedge fund mean you "win?" What if you were "only" working for a consulting firm?

Point is, comparing yourself to those around you will get you nowhere whereas appreciating them for the different path they've chosen and who they are might actually give you a few good ideas.

Exactly I never understood how bankers confuse working really hard with being smart.

This is a bit anal but you should differentiate between s and t and t. A lot of the guys in s are complete morons, at least on the equity side, I can see how derivatives is more challenging.

outside of quant roles, certain trading areas and some very intellectual hfs this industry is not nearly as smart as people think

thanks for the advice guys. i know i am coming off as a douchebag and that is exactly why i posted this, in order to figure out how to change

soon enough my friend

I would remember that most successful people weren't successful when they were 21 or 22. For all you know you've peaked. There are tens of thousands of nobodys at state schools--or smoking pot in their mother's basement--right now who will reach the upper echelon of success--when they are 38 or 45. Life's a marathon, not a sprint.

And everything you have on your plate right now can be taken away by a layoff at the wrong time, or a serious injury (say, from a car crash), or sickness, or a child with severe disabilities, etc. I would thank the Good Lord for your blessings. Just keep perspective. The guys I know who struggled when they were 21 are actually doing really well at 28. And when I was 21 I was skinny and good looking. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. :)

Can totally relate to your point about people in bs GS groups. For instance, a lot of recent graduates are supposedly making "crazy money" working at accoutning firms, even though I know (given my location) this is extremely far from true. Or the fact that people think marketing guys/doctors/dentist/ lawyers (again, this is unique to my location) are gods among men because of the money they make/"level of intelligence" it takes to get there, but when you actually look at the numbers, they're really not staggering despite public opinion.

It all comes down to the ignorance of the general public who don't understand the idea of BO/MO/FO (as I didn't until recently) and the fact that type A's such as ourselves live in constant fear of missing the boat on success/prestige, and can tend to be a bit douchey.

I can't speak much for how this will go away as I'm probably younger than you and have just begun experiencing this myself, but its definatley something that needs to change. There will never be a time when the public understands the hard work it takes to make MS trading or w.e and there will always be dealerships willing to help finnance that dude's ferrari, even though he pulls in 160k a year pre-tax, and has a mortgage.

There's an interesting TED talk by a guy named Alain de Botton called "A Gentler Philosophy of Success". I can't post the link, but I think that it's both entertaining as well as insightful, I highly recommend a listen. It's a little bit more abstract, but broadly applicable in my opinion.

I'd say the majority of the investment bankers I know who did not go my college were not of above-average intellect in high school. Of the ones that went to my college, they too were not particularly smart, a lot of them were frat bros, to be honest. They just got internships and networked and landed the position. Every so often I connect with an old high school friend on LinkedIn, and I see this guy works as an Investment Banking Analyst at X bank, and half the time I'm just thinking to myself, this guy isn't even remotely smart. Of course, I am sure this becomes more rare when you talk about top groups at GS/MS/etc., but even a guy I know who works for Evercore, which is supposedly an elite boutique, was about as far from Einstein as you could possibly get in school.

I'd say a better correlation to who makes it and who doesn't is not at all about intellect but about personality. The strong-willed, type A personalities from HS and college are the ones who made it, probably because they were confident or could easily fake confidence throughout the interview process, and had no qualms networking with or cold calling MDs or upper management for internships/jobs.

Of the two smartest kids from my high school (this was a top pedigree high school, by the way, so these guys were geniuses), one went into physics, the other is working for Jane Street Capital.

I can 100% relate. I think most people who go into finance have a natural drive and ambition. Finance is an extremely competitive field and to go into it you have to be a competitive person I think. There is nothing wrong with a bit of ragging on friends just as long as you don't turn into a huge douche. Congratz on the offer!

Can definitely relate as well... so at the very least, you're not alone. I think it's good if it can help you be competitive and to stay hungry, but it's dangerous if you think it's changing your character. Don't be defined by your job and don't yield to the judgements of others. In actuality, they probably think about you and your path to success much, much less than you think.

I didn't read the entire thread (some of us have work to do, ya know?) but I have to say that I was surprised by the number of people who said "this is perfectly normal." Really? Is this how you all think? Personally, I couldn't give a two shits where my friends were going except to be happy when they found a job (and for many of them, whether or not they would was a legitimate concern).

It seems to me that you are getting caught up in the rat race before even leaving college. You will likely be fighting this temptation for the rest of your life.

WARNING! THE FOLLOWING SUBJECT MATTER IS FOR THOSE WITH TWO X CHROMOSOMES

Getting back to the topic of your post: lets closely examine what is going on. So you like the people, city and career prospects of your new job yet you still feel like shit after accepting because you have noticed the effect is has had on how you treat people. Believe it or not there is good news here: the fact that you recognize and are upset by the way you have been treating your friends recently shows that your are not a DoucheCanoe to the core. Not a given in our industry.

This may sting a little, but it sounds to me like you are a little insecure and have been using your academic (and now career) success to validate your self-worth. Now that you have your great job, you feel that you are "owed" the respect from your peers that you had previously felt that you were always "deserved." Therefore you try and collect by flaunting your superiority. Of course, this ultimately backfires as you end up driving away all of your former friends. Better to face facts now and realize that everyone is better than you at something. That sort of humility will go a long ways towards killing off your current attitude.

END OF PSYCHOLOGY TALK

Most of my friends are not investment bankers / consultants / traders / [insert preftigious job here]. In fact, most of my friends have been most of my friends for most of my life, with the exception of a few I picked up during college. No way that this happens by constantly engaging in pissing contests.

The replies to this thread are gold. "Don't worry, I can totally relate to that problem of not being able to help myself from being a douche to all my friends." If you actually cared about your friends (instead of only caring about yourself), I'm pretty sure you could find it in your heart to be happy for them. Little twinges of jealousy, totally normal. Not being able to control yourself when you feel this, totally obnoxious. Also, everyone HATES a one-upper. You're going nowhere fast if you keep that up.

I give you some credit for being able to realize that you're being a prick.

The fact there are people sticking up for the Yale Bulldogs is just hilarious.

I work in MM pe and have buddies who work in top jobs r even random jobs that this forum shits on everyday. Humility takes you very far in life. Don't ever underestimate the value of it. It's precious.

.

Oh my. This thread was really something.

To the OP: At least you realized that you have a problem. The path forward is simple: Give fewer fucks, drink a few beers, find a guy/girl/dog/hobby that makes you really happy, and realize that in 300 years, your life, your job, and everything you accomplished will be completely and utterly meaningless.

Now, to all those who said, "This is completely normal." It isn't. Holy fuck no it isn't and if you think it is you need to have your head examined and your opinions on human connectivity thoroughly rewired. Your friends are people for whom you want nothing but the best. They are not a punching bag for your insecurities. They are not information depositories who need to be made aware of Morgan Stanley M&A's standing relative to a specific Goldman Sachs Coverage Group. They are real people, going through the same bullshit we all go through, and believe me: Your bullshit isn't any more valid or meaningful or painful than theirs. If you can't realize that, and learn to see things from other people's perspectives, then your stunted emotional intelligence is going to ensure that even if you have career success, you're not going to see much in the way of personal success.

My God. I need a break. This industry is way too fucking much.

I'm out, kids, work on this overnight and get it back to me in the morning. Thx.