Where do best Wharton undergraduates go immediately after graduation?
Just curious, do superstars go into buy side right away or do they go into a top bb group?
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Top buy side funds
This is pretty dumb considering that not everyone who goes into Wharton wants to get straight to IB. You would hope that the best would start their own company, not become glorified excel monkey's....
Graduates of Wharton are most assuredly not starting companies.
The "start their own company" answer is funny, considering a big part of being a finance major is taking away risk, not adding to it.
Smart kids will often do PE (think TPG, Warburg, SL (has gotten the #1 Wharton kid many a time), BX, Bain Cap/Sankaty; KKR program gets incrementally less love, Carlyle program is CEMOF-only, and Apollo pushes its summers to EBs for FT), EBs (PJT likely (and within that RX espec.), maybe EVR/LAZ/MOE LA but unlikely for the 3.9+ people), and the occasional attractive HF (esp. Silver Point), though opportunities there are rarer. BB is uncommon for the very top people because top BB groups are generalist offers during the summer and usually hire from within for FT. Sometimes there'll be an MS M&A slot open and that'll get snatched up in August.
Fringe has submatriculates into the MBA program or maybe a Master's, though I don't get the point of the former and those who want to do the latter often bake it into their 4 years.
A lot of the decisions are social, too. I've seen guys turn down MF PE for an EB or even GS/MS/JPM just because they want to have a class around them, which is totally understandable. Others really love getting into investing and will take MM PE (LGP/THL) months before (or I guess now that recruiting is earlier, a little before) OCR starts. Others get a banking internship, hate it, and shoot over to McKinsey; some guys know themselves before the summer and grab a McK intern spot and roll with it. It's more complex than the PE > Banking > Everything tone the forums can take.
Edit: should add a caveat for people who love a particular sector. Tech junkies would likely take Bessemer/Accel over a non-MS Tech/Qatalyst/maybe GS TMT SF offer in banking, and energy guys would perhaps jump at a Barcap Houston/TPH/Simmons offer and likely would consider the CEMOF opportunity more than the traditional finance grad.
Edit 2: while we're adding caveats, some love for the quants who go to AQR/Jane Street/other hedgies and props that recruit here.
Wow the way this is described a GS IBD spot is basically off the radar for for a top Wharton UG grad relative to the other programs, while those spots would be very attractive for an average top Ivy grad with interest in finance. Does Wharton UG crush it that hard?
"Does Wharton UG crush it that hard?" Haha no. No one is scoffing at GS IBD in Wharton, and neither is any "average top Ivy grad". I think what's more to the point is that you're overrating where a large class, non-group specific GS IBD offer stands compared to not only the field of finance jobs available to a 3.85+ grad at most any Ivy, but also to other jobs within the banking sphere. APAE s post is probably the best place to start for a better hold on the landscape
it is kind of surprising top Wharton students would normally take Evercore or Lazard over GS/MS
Your posts make it seem like you're a pretty young undergrad, so it might seem like "name brand" BB banks are the top opportunities--common misconception. Most top applicants (who want to stay in finance medium-term) prefer having the group certainty or generalist offer the EBs provide (ex. Lazard), along with certain cultural benefits, more engaging work i.e. no debt/equity raises, leaner teams, and better per-capita placement. The preference for EBs tends to "stick" because most BB firms will hire from their intern class for FT.
Top guys that want to do finance go straight to PE - BX, SilverLake, Bain, Warburg, CCMP do some recruiting there. Then gain, these "top" wharton kids are usually M&T which is Wharton + Engineering degrees. It's a select program and then the top 10 kids here pretty much write their ticket wherever they want to work. It's arguably the hardest program @ PENN, and given the engineering focus, I believe you'll see a lot @ Silverlake.
Not many go to HF directly - I didn't know any. Feel like the prop trading / Jane Street are more engineers. Those interviews are very probability / math oriented - I remember them. Hardcore math is not one of Wharton's core competencies.
Sub-matriculating for Wharton MBA is very rare. Generally want some work experience first and honestly there is a superiority complex from the point of undergrads. Wharton undergrad loves to tell them they dont need to get an MBA... this type of thinking (rightly or wrongly) certainly permeates throughout the student body.
BB banks and EB are all other top spots. A lot of the differentiation for top BB to EB is a crap shoot. 500 kids in Wharton. We used to get 400 applications from Penn for summer analysts in IBD Classic (include some liberal arts + engineering). Interview 24 kids. 8-10 kids for super day. Really just getting an interview is a bit of luck, networking. GS comes to Penn multiples times per year for OCR / presentations. Not atypical to see 200+ kids show up to these in suits ready to network. Can be very aggressive. There's a reason that Wharton was given the Slytherine house shirts a number of years ago
GS / MS will also say MBB are their biggest competition for top candidates. Some kids burn out over the summer and switch to consulting. Some want an operations focused role.
Thanks for the reply! So unless you are the top few people who can get the buy side job, going to Wharton gives you little advantage in getting a job in BB/EB because of the competition right?
No he didn't say that. Look when you say "advantage" that means very different things. Yes, each INDIVIDUAL alum will help you less at Wharton than at a lesser target because there's more of a pull for your own mindset when there's less representation. And yes, the first round cut is absolutely brutal (~400 apps to ~20 1st round interview slots). The advantage is having damn near the biggest alumni network around and the confidence that if you have decent grades and handle your shit networking-wise (90%+ of kids don't), then you'll have a bevy of interviews at least.
In no way is that worse off than other schools just because there's more "competition". Now, if you're looking an excuse not to come here because of psychological shit like wanting to be a big fish in a smaller pond or whatever, fine go ahead. But don't claim that W offering less of an "advantage" has anything to do with it.
I can't speak to Wharton but at a similar Ivy they sorta go wherever they feel like. Many will get a PhD with the intention of joining academia or working for the fed. Others will go to the IMF or go to a startup. Some will join hedge funds or PE firms.
I think there is this assumption that the valedictorian of the Econ or finance department is going to go to Blackstone... The valedictorian can probably get into Blackstone, but that's not necessarily what he wants.
SLP, Silver Point, BX / PJT, KKR, Apollo. If you're into tech, Accel / Bessemer / Insight / Morgan Stanley's technology group. These tend to be M&T kids and Huntsman kids, with a couple straight Wharton kids who are fucking sick at investing. And that's just the super top tranche. W still places lights-out into Lazard / Evercore / Moelis / GS / MS / etc.
Also Warburg, LGP, Ares, TPG, etc... The list is long and exhaustive as far as large buyside funds go, though I believe SLP has a history of taking its pick from the top few students.
All you Americans are clinically insane.
What makes you say that?
Obsession with prestige/formulaic structure of where to work etc. No flexibility or creativity of mind. Don't be a drone bro
How easy is it to lateral to another PE shop for FT after interning at a well known one for your junior summer?
Wherever they want.
The very very top kids go straight to elite PE or HF (TPG,KKR,Apollo, Warburg, BX,Carlyle, Silverpoint, Bridgewater etc)
This kind of jobs straight out of ugrad can only be accessed through mainly Wharton or Harvard. In rare cases a very exceptional non-wharton Penn kid might land one of those (since firms come to Penn to recruit and they do open their application to everyone), and also in rare cases a very well-connected Yale kid might get it. But it is mainly either Wharton or Harvard.
People have no idea what they're talking about every single summer at every top BB group gets an interview opportunity at TPG etc for analyst role. I know kids from Penn state and Carnegie Mellon etc who have interviewed for the analyst position (and gotten it, and yes turned it down omg the horror). These aren't one or two exceptions, but significant portions of multiple classes over 2 cycles that I've personally seen (i.e. ~60 different people - a fairly large sample).
I imagine this is from people who form their entire opinion of placement from this website and haven't actually seen a cycle or two of placement or the profiles of candidates from top groups
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