Which BB's have the best culture?
Can you rank them?
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In my (albeit) limited experience, the group you are actually placed in has just as big, if not a bigger impact on culture than the firm itself.
Very true
yes
I'd rather be rich than stupid
best - the one that gives you an offer.
I agree
It's like asking what nation has the best culture.
Different horses for different courses.
You'll never guess what my answer is....well, maybe you could.
Varies considerably based on what group you are in.
culture of BBs (Originally Posted: 02/01/2010)
What's the difference of BBs'(GS, MS, BAML, JPM, Citi) trading floor?
way too broad of a question. you're asking about the specific culture of at least 50 desks and 25,000 people.
Thanks. Forget my question. I am wondering, besides teamwork and competition, what cultural style those BBs have.
BB alma mater and trading floor culture (Originally Posted: 12/26/2010)
Ive visited the trading floors of several BB's and was able to get a sense of the different cultures but Id like to know which Uni's populate each BB. Below is what I have gathered, looking forward to input from others.
GS: only met HYP graduates, don't have a sense of the culture as I visited after hours.
JPM: mostly HYP, one of the most uptight and formal floors Ive seen. A little quieter as everyone uses chat to communicate and the floor is designed to reduce the amount of noise, its was almost quiet on the FX floor.
CS: All Ivy, everyone seemed laid back, plenty of youtube videos blasting, the floor itself could use a face-lift
BofA: Lower Ivy, the floor is the nicest of all the mentioned here as its brand new, seemed to have a higher concentration of the old school guys with plenty of yelling across the rows to others.
Citi: Similar to BofA but the floor is slightly older. Huge windows at the back of the floor with a nice view.
Go to where you like the people the most - fit is the most important thing for your career - all these places are excellent firms - and once you get in, going from one place to another is not that hard
I was saying the concentration of HYP is much greater at JPM than at BofA, CS or Citi. That was my point. Maybe it came through unclear, I was expecting you to put 2 cents in as to the school concentration at each of the BB's.
Its exactly what I expected but did not expect the vastly different levels of alums at each BB. This thread is meant to help everyone get a sense of the people on the above named floors and is not a question as to which offer I should choose.
Comments based on your observations are hence very welcome on the subject of school concentration, culture, floor nuances etc.
European banks (CS, UBS, Barclays) tend to have a much more laid back culture in the US.
Braclays is NOT really a true European bank - it is the old Lehman
.
You guys are soooo clueless... just find a place where you fit, working with HYP grads on the desk won't ensure you not getting laid off or getting a nice bonus...
Ok so here are the stereotypes for you - notice that most of these places are not run by HYP mafia and prior to Blankfein GS management was dominated by the U f C crowd - notice also that there is a lot of movement at the top, particularly after the 08 blow up
GS - smart, very smart - but very strange culture - are you ready to take semi-mandatory vacation with your coworkers? As much as people hate them they are #1, they are also the ones who will give a real chance to smart kids from non-target school -Lloyd Blankfein is Harvard/Harvard though
JP Morgan - may be they have HYP concentration but very solid nothing else - their balance sheet makes them a top 3 player (likely #2 after GS) - smarter HYP kids gravitated towards GS and MS. Of course Jamie Dimon is an ex Citi guy did his undergrad at Tufts and MBA at HBS
Morgan Stanley - snooty, lots of HYP - they have been gutted recently so they are in the rebuilding process - probably have been replaced by JP (at least for now) as the other M in the old MGM. Morgan is run by an ex ML/McKinsey guy who did undergrad in Australia and has an MBA from Columbia
BofA - basically the old Merrill on the equities side and mostly BofA on the fixed income - but make no mistake the organization overall is still very much the old Merrill Lynch - never known as particularly smart or nimble (looked what happened when they tried to mimic GS) - but very solid culture probably #3 behind GS and JP and the only ones who can match JPs balance sheet which is very important for fixed income. BofA Merrill Lynch is run by an ex GS guy who went to Stanford/Kellogg
CS - this is the first downturn that the firm managed not to blow itself up through overly aggressive trading - tier two but with some strong competencies - def the most laid back of the bunch. CEO is a U of C grad
Citi - a cross between old Lehman and Merrill, a very good place to be - but they need to fix their internal stuff. Run by a Columbia grad who joined from Morgan Stanley
No... Barclays bought Lehman's US ops, Nomura bought the rest
I can attest to the comment about GS chancing non-target kids. At the superday I went to two weeks ago the girl next to me waiting for her first-slot interview was from Manhattan College. I was as surprised at that as she was to find out I was a sophomore and got a superday invite.
GS had a lot of Duke, Georgetown, and Dartmouth guys, as well as some super non-targets like Lehigh and Richmond.
Surprised you saw more than a few Yalies on any of those trading floors. Not common.
I disagree. A lot do go into IBD at Barclays but there is a good group at GS, JPM, BofA, CS on the trading floor both in FI and equities. Citi has a major lacking of Yalies on the floor. The strat group at GS is also a major Yale grouping with a mix of undergrads, MS and PhD's from Yale.
I haven't seen many Yale guys on the trading floor. Plenty of Columbia, MIT, Princeton, a few Michigan and NYU.
Can you attribute a reason as to why there are so few?
Not sure. I know a few in banking. The one I knew in trading washed out. Maybe they are just more likely to go the banking/lawyer route. I don't see that many Brown (if any) on the floor either.
i attend lehigh and was recently speaking with head of fx sales for baml
told me that they are actually pretty well-represented there--- with head of rates being from there--
as well as others
HYP have not dominated any trading floors I have been on. Lots of ivys, mit, u of c, etc but also seen a considerable number of BC, NYU, Lehigh, Williams etc
my friend trades cash equities at Goldman after graduating from Sacred Heart
edit: I chose to delete this comment. Suffice it to say that I do not respect the average Sacred Heart alumnus.
I found university largely much easier than HS, and I'm not a genius nor was my school easy really. Is it possible the kid was more intelligent than you give him credit for?
Surprised there's no mention of wharton. Those guys are everywhere on the top BB trading floors.
Way more Wharton kids and alums I know want to pursue banking rather than trading. I have no idea how heavily they populate the floors though.
I would say Wharton is on par with MIT and Columbia.
The only World I really know is the bond trading World, but I tend to think that these days with all the mergers amongst firms and the prevalence of campus recruiting at the same group of 10-ish schools there really is not a whole lot of difference in "culture" between the large dealers/banks.
However, this was not always the case. This is just my opinion, but the cultures of the banks all used to have their roots in the firms' early days...namely in the fact that prior to the 1980s there were "Jewish banks" and non-Jewish banks. ie places like Lehman Brothers basically did not hire (or really even serve) Jews and banks like Goldman were founded by Jewish people. Even today you can see slight differences that arise from this century-old difference. Places like Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley are still more likely to be populated by laid-back lacrosse-playing preppies and places like Goldman are more likely to be populated by more "ethnic", take-no-prisoners type of people. The old-line WASP-y bond dealers (LEH, MER, MS, Greenwich capital) tended to be more laid back whereas the old-line Jewish dealers (GS, Bear Stearns, Salomon Bros) tended to be more hard-nosed and scrappy. A third category for the Euro banks also exists...CS, UBS, DB, etc...they didnt hire jews back in the day either and I guess would fall into the WASP category.
This may be non-PC but I dont mean to be racist...its just the way i think Wall St. lined up back in the day and in some places you can still see vestiges of this old order.
Lehman up until its demise, was one of the most Jewish places on Wall Street (along with Bear and Salomon) The rest of your post is pretty accurate couple of caveats: - Goldman wanted preppy Jews, and Merrill was THE Irish place on Wall Street
The Irish thing at MER is definitely 100% true...even today most of their bond traders are irish guys.
Haven't been to too many trading floor but UBS's trading floor, though in Stamford, is gorgeous. I have no idea how the school concentration is and I have no idea how you'd find out any other school's representation apart from your own school. Anyway, environment and culture-wise I really like it, everything in that building is just beautiful and the trading floor is pretty awesome (it is the world's largest afterall?).
I'm visiting a couple different banks in the coming week so hopefully i'll be reporting back soon!
So reporting back... I'd say the first post is pretty accurate? Although I didn't meet too many people - just a few from Penn at Goldman, some from Cornell and Harvard at Credit Suisse, and I think a mix of Ivy and liberal arts colleges at Barcap.
BarCap has a ton of non-Ivies. 100% return offer + acceptance rate from Stern for instance.
I'm sure they do.. I did meet quite a few Stern alum there so I can believe that. Just stating what I saw though, not saying it's "correct" by all means.
BB Culture (Originally Posted: 08/20/2009)
are they all collegial with meritocracy?
In Trading and Research, merit and initiative counts. In sales, you have an advantage if you are tall/blonde and hot. In IB, it varies but a lot of sucking up is involved (though they all require sucking up to some degree).
BB Cultures (Originally Posted: 12/29/2006)
How do the BBs vary in culture? How would you describe the culture, or perceived culture at GS,Citi,MS,LEH,JPM,ect.?
I will only comment on the place I worked the longest... I interned at LEH, but the way I'd see things now is undoubtedly different tan when I was a Summer Analyst.
GS: extremely teamwork focused. Very concerned about reputation and business conflicts. Work extremely hard (harder than most analysts imo). I love the culture. Fit in very well. It's not for everyone, but it was definitely right for me.
Definitely is always wondering what the Gsachs fools are up to. Have alot of pride working at MS, although traditionally it had the allstar mentality has made strides to promote teamwork. However at MS it is easier for recruiters to know who the badasses were, so when u look for exit opps (assuming you did well) your chances for getting a good job increase significantly.
Culture at the BB banks (Originally Posted: 07/05/2007)
One of the most important aspects of evaluation in IB interviews is fit based on the culture of the firm. Therefore, I would greatly appreciate some input from guys who have worked/interned at the BB banks; what's the culture like at GS, MS, LB, JPM, etc, and what's so distinctive that separates one from the other? And are divisions within the bank different? I'm primarily interested in S&T. Thanks in advance.
I don't think you'll get too many enthusiastic replies to either of your posts, but here goes: not much, is my two cents. To be sure, each bank is different, and they certainly have reputations. But the "fit" part of your interview is not going to be based on how well you as a (i'm guessing) young kid fit into their bigger picture. It's much more that they want to make sure you are enthusiastic enough about the opportunity to know something about the firm, are not a cave dwelling weirdo, etc. In a first round, they also want to see that you've applied for the right position (or where they should stick you for second rounds if it's firmwide), ie that you are a trader-type rather than a banker-type.
The only way firm culture plays into this (again, in my opinion) is on your side. If you go to final rounds with any of these firms, you'll meet enough people that you get a feel for what the average person is like. I thought MS interview styles were agressive, JPM were more enthusiastic, and GS had a lot of stress tests. If you can't match or stick up to those styles, that's probably not the firm for you anyway.
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