Which places better into hedge funds, HBS or Stanford GSB?
Assuming you have bulge bracket banking and solid PE experience pre-mba, which school is going to provide you with better HF opportunities? Does the larger HBS network + east coast location make a difference? What is the recruiting process like?
Thanks!
Anyone have any experience with this?
When your founding / senior partners sit on the board and write recs for the juniors it becomes significantly easier to get in...
Buyside firms that place very well at HBS/Stanford (Originally Posted: 07/31/2011)
From looking at the linkedin profiles of friends at HBS and Stanford and their classmates, a small number of buyside firms seem very well-represented. As a matter of fact, these firms place virtually 100% of their pre-MBA associates at those two schools. Examples include Bain Capital, Perry Capital, oaktree, watershed Asset Management, Farallon, and a few others.
Aside from the fact that it's tough to get jobs at these funds, why do they do so well with elite business schools?
This is a common preception but it isn't correct. I work at one of the firms mentioned above and can tell you most of us don't even ask the senior partners for reccomendations because the best reccommendations come from the people who know you best. The reasons some of the above firms do well is:
1) There is an MBA-friendly culture: The firm works hard to help us craft our applications. Mid and senior staff take the time to help us write essays. Reccommenders put a lot of thought into reccommendations and spend time with you to make sure their reccommendation fits your overall theme. The firm invites the top people from the admissions committees to the office to discuss and pitch their school. Several months before the applications deadlines we have a kick-off meeting where we learn from past applicants' experiences and lay out an application schedule. Etc. Etc. Etc.
2) Legacy and brand management: Our HR staff have done a great job explaining to each school what makes our program unique. The schools also tell us they've had good experiences with former alumni and are inclined to believe we'd be good fits too.
They key message I'd send is that it's not about having big hitters write your reccommendations - it's about crafting the strongest, most coherent application possible. I think some firms do well every year because they focus on helping their pre-MBAs do that.
SB for you. I have never heard it laid out like this, but that all makes total sense. Thank you for the insight.
Would be really interested to hear what it's like in terms of pitching yourself to the b-school. Does everyone try to go for the "I'm in finance now but really want to do XYZ and save the world in ABC ways?" Or are most just strong enough candidates that they can just position themselves as finance guys looking to stay in finance?
Buyside firms run much leaner than bulge bracket banks, hence you have tremendous exposure to the senior people. Wouldn't you say that they have more of a vested interest in your success? As a result, they get to know you better, more likely to write you recommendations, help you out during the process (as you have written out above in such length), connect you with other influential alums, etc... This is before even considering the strong inroads that some firms have with top-notch business schools (i.e. Bain Cap -> HBS).
Agree with this statement. Thanks for the post.
HBS, but I think there are 2 huge mitigating factors here:
1) HBS is much more of a finance crowd, so there is, on balance, more finance experience and HF interest 2) Recruiting is just easier from the east coast , given how concentrated the HF world is in the Northeast
I suspect the school differences end up being trivial for an equally skilled/dedicated candidate so not sure I would make this a major deciding factor
that sounds awesome!
I think this is right. It's just a base rate issue; probably 30% of hbs is on sort of a 'finance' track whereas maybe only 10-15% of gsb. I think you can probably recruit extremely well for HF from either.
HBS, but I think there are 2 huge mitigating factors here:
1) HBS is much more of a finance crowd, so there is, on balance, more finance experience and HF interest 2) Recruiting is just easier from the east coast , given how concentrated the HF world is in the Northeast
I suspect the school differences end up being trivial for an equally skilled/dedicated candidate so not sure I would make this a major deciding factor
You are right about getting to know senior people better and them having a stake in your success. I suppose you are also right that in some cases maybe senior people can find ways to tip the scales in your favor due to their influence. I have, however, personally not seen any overt use of influence to help pre-MBAs get into bschool ... I don't know maybe it goes behind the scenes and I'm just not privy to it.
I think the 80/20 lies in a firm's strong reputation with bschools and the degree to which senior people get to know you and mentor you through the process
it's very simple. The firm does not get into HBS, the person does. And those firms hire the best people. So they get into HBS.... if you looked at their grades/scores you'd find 95% of them were 3.9+ with 760+
Recruiting for AM at either institution will be pretty solid. I would give HBS the slight nod with respect to location (Boston has a huge buyside contingency) and alumni network.
Recruiting for HF, however, will be difficult at any business program..
First- hardly any HF's do OCR.
Second- the ones that do OCR, have their pick of the litter. Meaning that out of the 1,000 people there, probably 50-100 have prior HF experience or some really impressive background that you have to compete against.
What I am saying is, unless you have a pristine resume or prior experience at a HF- you have your work cut out for you landing a HF role out of most business programs
Can someone speak to the reverse? Which HF's / type of HF's place well into Bschool. Given that most people in HF don't want to go to Bschool....
Is HF---> HBS/GSB an uphill battle without PE experience?
why? just why?
I'm on the west coast and Stanford generally places better on the west coast. Keep in mind that HBS has 900 students per class while GSB has 250ish, so the math will always work in HBS's favor.
Two things:
Why don't you just go straight to a hedge fund (I dont think B school really helps and I have known people that basically recruited for hedge funds in lieu of B-school).
Have you looked at Booth, I believe they place well (Not OCR recruiting but hedge funds like the quant focused MBA)
This thread is splitting hairs. It doesn't matter.
I have friends who have gone to both (and friends currently at both) schools. People above me here have said it: it's a marginal difference that ultimately is decided by the candidate. Also, most people who have the right background (school, grades, and work experience) for the elite funds don't need the MBA to get there.
The people who come from BX R&R to KKR and decided they wanted a public markets role won't have a problem tapping their network (from undergrad, BX, and KKR alumni) to make the move. B-school then is a question of whether you want a vacation while you work on setting up informational interviews and another notch on your pedigree totem.
There are some funds that do explicitly look for an HBS MBA. I've heard rumors that a lot of the Tiger grandcubs are like this. I know for a fact White Elm is (and they have a bias for GS banking alum).
Are there funds that actually don't like MBAs?
With perhaps the exception of quant and macro funds, I don't think hedge funds actively "dislike" MBAs. You just need to have the right work experience. If you have an MBA as well, they certainly won't punish you for it. But a previous poster was right that very few hedge funds do active OCR. At the top schools you will see hedge funds post jobs on the main job board but won't visit campus as part of an active recruiting process. And hiring is ad hoc, with post-mba vacancies usually opening up in March-May.
Columbia is very good for HFs from what I have seen - if you can get into the value investing program it may even be better than HBS or GSB, especially once you take into account the fact that HBS and GSB has stronger candidates. I've seen people in the program who get amazing jobs with worse pedigrees than the average HBS/GSB alum (eg, equity research instead of IB + megafund PE)
^ Wrong. If you see any anecdotes like that, it's because of relevant work experience or the candidate was inherently better. Most hedge funds (including mine) dislike MBAs altogether. If we had to take one, it'd be Wharton, GSB or HBS (not in any order) and the guy would have relevant pre-MBA experience.
Got it - I could be wrong, but I have seen several people with mid tier backgrounds jump to excellent hedge funds from Columbia, while the kids from HBS and GSB who go to similar caliber funds already have excellent credentials (BB M&A and megafund or MM PE). This makes me think that the "bump" from Columbia Value investing is significant and potentially better than HSW. Obviously if you get into HS you still go over Columbia but just an observation.
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