Why are banking hours looked upon as so awful?
As someone who is interested in investment banking, I have 2 questions.
First, why are investment banking hours looked upon in such an extremely negative way compared to other career paths? For almost any career that offers the earning potential of investment banking, extreme hours are required at some point. To become a surgeon you must endure resdiency that often requires 80+ hours a week of training for 3-5 years.
To become a successful entrepreneur or startup you must pour your life into your idea and spend almost all time in making it successful. While I know little about law, I have heard that to be a high paid lawyer you must work 80+ hours per week. So why is working 80+ hours at a bank looked upon so negatively compared to other careers when it can potentially catapult you into an appealing PE or HF job?
Secondly (and as a possible answer to my first question), is the buy side not as appealing as it seems? It seems as though a job like PE where you might work around 60 hours per week with weekends off while earning an extremely generous income would be an amazing job and easily justify working hard in banking for a couple of years.
Surgeons - go through 80 hour residency and all that BS but have ultimate job security and a lot less hours after that residency is finished, or even better if they start their own practice. Bankers maintain 60 hour weeks even at a very senior level and have relatively little job security.
Entrepreneurs - do spend a ton of hours and their life for their business which THEY OWN AND CONTROL. Moreover, if the business somewhat succeeds, you will make way more money than your banking counterpart, with a LOT less hours but MUCH higher risk of failing. Bankers on the other hand, will almost always be working for the person above them in the hierarchy, will make less than an entrepreneur who succeeds but will have relatively better job security.
Lawyers ... This is where bankers win it all - higher pay, similar hours, save on schools fees and time (no need for $200k 3-year law school), more chicks get boners hearing "i work in finance" than "I work in law".
Buyside is much better than banking in terms of lifestyle, job function, but the reason people may make it seem "not appealing" is because they assume it will be entirely different from banking. It's disheartening to the Ivy league/ 2 year GS TMT/ pre-MBA PE associate when he finds out that he will still be making valuation models/spreading comps/ LBOs as a PE associate even after all the hard work and sacrifice he's gone through, when he expected to be sitting in an Italian leather chair on the 35th floor making the occasional "investment decision" while looking over the skyline and getting paid 7 figures.
Most prospective bankers aren't considering medical fields. Most law school prospectives apply/attend, after acquiring an undergrad liberal arts degree and having no idea what to do with their lives (true in many cases). The hours are a lot no doubt, coming out of undergrad, and it's a big shock for people who haven't worked a whole lot prior (i.e. working 30 hours or something crazy like that on top of school). Most people don't know how much work a successful venture actually takes, it literally consumes every waking second, but people just look at the mark zuckerbergs of the world and believe that innate genius allows for successful companies to be built. The hours are more than what you would have in most other fields, but you are right in saying that it falls along the lines of other good jobs. In terms of investment banking and the buyside in general, I think it's more referring to finance having a great earning potential, but that it's not going to immediately catapult you into becoming "rich", but rather into the upper middle class sphere until some seniority is acquired. These are just my thoughts, I'd love to hear the opinions of others.
I agree that the job security of becoming a surgeon is infinitely better but the hours don't seem to be. My dad is a doctor and works 70 hour weeks fairly commonly and while this might be above average, work weeks in the 60 range seem common for surgeons.
Thanks for the post. Your last point on the buy side was informative and interesting to consider.
1) 80+ hour weeks in banking are a lot more frustrating and tedious. Generally speaking, you will do far more meaningful work as a doctor, and far more interesting work as an entrepreneur (yes, doctors have paperwork and being an entrepreneur means you will have to get your hands dirty, but banking is probably still far less fulfilling as a job). I'd rather be a junior banker than a junior lawyer though.
2) There are plenty of crappy buyside shops out there. Doing a 2 year stint in banking is not an automatic golden ticket to KKR (and actually, hours don't improve for a few more years if you join a megafund PE). Yes, there are some great buyside gigs out there, but it can be disheartening for some to think that they work 80+ hours a week just to have a small chance at landing one of these jobs.
Because it's in human nature to complain and exaggerate. People who get out at 4am once a week like to say they work until 4am "most nights." People who pull an all nighter twice a month tend to say they pull all nighters "at least once a week" etc.
This is the truth.
You don't have to be pulling all nighters to work shitty hours. The hours legitimately suck. It's draining sitting in an office all day having zero ownership of your time, formatting powerpoints and spreadsheets, and executing generally tedious assignments from seniors who actually own your time and have little regard for it.
Just to often times do more of the same at the glorious exit opp.
Probably because all of those other careers involve saving people's lives, interacting with clients, owning and benefiting society through your own innovation than having people hate you for putting together pitchbooks 24/7.
This is 100% accurate.
Bingo.
come on u have to give us somethin to exaggerate - kind of lke our exaggerated weight, egos, and propensity for leverage
whatever mudkipz is on...I want some of that.
While the work you do as a doctor seems way more fulfilling at first glance, I think the grass does always look greener on the other side. Patients are becoming increasingly ungrateful, the work can be repetitive, paper work takes up a lot of time, it can be depressing to not be successful in helping a patient (or even seeing a patient die depending on what type of surgeon you are).
no question, being a doctor is no walk in the park. but few things are if you're looking to make a high income. I think you're just going to have to get used to the fact that no job is perfect and you'll have to bust ass in order to attain the lifestyle you want. Pick something you like and roll with it. Don't make pros/cons lists for all the possibilities and make a judgement based on that.
yes i
This is exactly what "the grass is always greener" sounds like. Saving people's lives? Please. The vast majority of surgeries are routine and procedural. "Interacting with clients" (I'm assuming this is in reference to lawyers)? If your version of "interacting" is having 23 year-old banking analysts bossing you around, then sure. Obviously entrepreneurs have it good, but there's a huge risk/reward difference being baked into that calculus. Still, "benefiting society through your own innovation" is a pretty euphemistic way to phrase "creating a random Android app that subtracts 2 seconds from the time it takes you to order food".
Surprise!!!!: there is no free lunch.
I wasn't sure whether or not to dignify this with a response, but I guess I will anyways. Probably one of the more idiotic posts I've seen. The point I was getting at was social value. Surgeries are routine and procedural, you're right, but without them people would die. That's undeniable. So I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Yes, it was in reference to lawyers. Banking analysts boss around lawyers? Uh.........
And since when did being an entrepreneur entail: 1) solely developing apps and 2) Food? You must be a fat American.
Banking analysts create zero social value in theory. Most of the time their forecasts are absolute shit. Traders do, however. The point is that banking hours are so brutal because you're not making a difference in society;there's no beneficial end result.
NorthSider has the right idea. For me, the frustration with banking wasn't the long hours - I can work 80-hour weeks as long as there is something constantly do. However, this is how days usually looked like:
6:30am - roll into the office, bleary-eyed and half asleep, so I can finish a deck that I promised I'd have to an associate before I left the office last night 7:00am - finish the deck, send it off; grab coffee 7:30am - get a stack of papers full of red marks, most of them trivial edits ("please change the wording of this sentence from 'could we' to 'should we'", "can you write out 'million' instead of just writing 'mm'?"); make the edits in 15 minutes and send them back 8:00am - 2:00pm - sit around trying to look productive and not fall asleep 4:00pm - work has finally trickled down to the bottom of the totem pole; work nonstop from 4:00pm to 1:00am to finish everything, with a 1-hour break at 9:00pm for dinner, which you really meant to be a quick 15-minute thing, but you couldn't tear yourself away from your beer to go back to the office and rot in a cubicle
Half of your 80-hour weeks is sitting around pretending to be productive. And honestly, I'd rather be doing work instead of pretending to read news and look productive when all I want to do is browse Facebook/be a total dork on WSO/go home and shoot zombies on my Xbox.
Kudos to you for pretending to be productive, but I don't think I have come across a single analyst who is more than 1 month on the job who doesn't blatantly do unproductive things while waiting. No one judges you for this. Agree that face time is a silly requirement, though.
I definitely stopped trying to be productive. I think by my second month I was playing flash games on my computer and online shopping all day.
its not the hours, its the unpredictability. Working 60 hours a week doing 8-8 every day is alot better than doing 60 hours of actual work a week but having to stay in the office for 80 and occasionally being there until 5am. In most buyside gigs you will spend more time actually working, yes less time in the office but more time actually working (cause you dont sit around playing flash games for the first 8 hours of the day)
But again if you feel bad about banking just look at lawyers. I never get why the fk anyone does law, incredibly dumb work (for life, not just 2 years and then a bit better work on the buyside), shitty comp compared to finance, and horrible hours.
Thats why so many cream of the crop lawyers are going in house. Compliance gigs have same base as FO roles at BBs and work 50 hour weeks and not as boring as working at firm (still boring though).
From what my lawyer friends say, people work at law firms to "pay their dues" just like bankers work at BBs in order to move to the buyside. Everyone wants to be doing law in-house nowadays.
Most people on here are really overestimating how good the life of an entrepreneur is imo. In banking/law you get to work in an office full of intelligent people more or less the same age as you, sometimes with the same interests as you and 100% of the time with the same lifestyle as you. Besides, you get to work in the centre of world's leading cities (NY/London) with all the dynamics that come with it, for people in their twenties def the best cities to live in. Despite the fact that you won't see much of the city in the first few years, I can imagine (i'm not in banking yet) that's a big big plus compared with entrepreneuring (friends/family of mine who are entrepreneurs tell me that the first couple of years are extremely lonely, where you will work on your own 90% of the time in a tiny little office in some shitty suburb because it's cheap. Try working 80 hours alone when there's no one around you who is doing the same..).
I think a lot of confident/aggressive/strong/Type A personalities tend to go into banking/finance (at least those who are successful in the field). After a while, these types of people tend to get tired of making money for somebody else and want to be their own boss, conduct business how and in what field they want, and eat what they kill. Hence, the entrepreneurship romanticism. At least that's my theory.
given that bankers tend to be the most boring risk averse people in the world (and PE guys aren't that different tbh), I dont think so lol
Because it's bitch work that's unfulfilling
Aren't you in PR?
And who have no regard for your time.
The buyside is very appealing and is worth the time in banking. That said, 60 hours a week is not necessarily the norm for all buyside gigs at the junior levels. I know some firms are like that, but mine is not at all that way until you get up to VP (or maybe even director/md). I'm working ~80 most weeks
You clearly have no idea how anything works in the industry, so you should just stop talking. You're making yourself sound like a moron.
Yes, second year analysts and first year associates routinely boss around lawyers. I can't tell you how many conference calls I have been on where a group of mid-level to senior lawyers are getting screamed at by lowly banking associates. You are kidding yourself if you think law is a glamorous profession.
... it's called an example. Or are you so obtuse that you actually thought I was making the statement "all entrepreneurs make food-related Android apps"?
And lawyers, obviously, add tons of value moving commas around in arcane legalese.You clearly have never studied economics. So I'm not going to bother to teach you.
Sure.
You're assuming that market failures don't exist in the labour market which has routinely been shown to be false. Who cares what computers "could" do? They don't do surgery. Period.
LOOOOLL. Alright. First of all, you're myopic. 'Lawyers' encompasses those practising in the following domains, for instance: International Law, Tort Law, IP, Family Law, Litigation, Contract Law, Criminal Law, Martial Law, etc. etc. etc. To insinuate that bankers have some sort of categorical sway over lawyers is ridiculous. You're comparing apples to oranges. Perhaps it's the case where you work, but I would bet that they also make shit tons more money than you (and I can see why).
It's just a stupid example. Even the lowliest entrepreneur is more conducive to technological progress than any analyst.
No, moving commas around doesn't create much social value, but putting someone in jail that just murdered your mother probably does.
I have a degree in econ actually. I was actually just trying to argue in non-economic layman's terms, since I didn't think you were capable of economic argumentation. But if you want to get economic, let's go: Analysts- even as GS- don't make more than any top tier first or second year business lawyer, surgeon or entrepreneur (this is debatable, though in the long-run entrepreneurs largely make much more than any banker). Thus, the economic benefit is less. They generate less tax revenue (and thus the social benefit is less as well).
Lol, once again NorthSider breaks down some poor guy's post line by line...another victim.
I've figured out not to go after NS. the dude would talk circles around me and refuse to quit unless he had the last word. a dangerous combo, lol.
A) You contribute nothing to the conversation.
B) Get off his dick.
Right out of college, banking analyst hours suck in comparison to pretty much any other job your peers are getting, including going to med school or law school where you can continue to party it up for a few years.
NorthSider can argue the actual societal worth of these positions all he wants, but for most, it IS easier to convince yourself that you're making a difference on a day to day basis as a doctor, researcher or even a lawyer. As an entrepreneur, it's basically a requirement and you either need to drink the kool-aid or be a very good actor. Consultants, well...
When you start with a line like "I wasn't sure whether or not to dignify this with a response, but I guess I will anyways. Probably one of the more idiotic posts I've seen", you're asking for it.
The hours in banking are only marginally worse than med school, and better at many shops. Also, my references to law and medicine are not to law school and med school, they are to actually working as lawyers and residents. Lawyers in big law handily beat out bankers in terms of raw hours in the office at less pay and after several years of racking up student debt. Hospital residents working banking hours on NorthSider can argue the actual societal worth of these positions all he wants, but for most, it IS easier to convince yourself that you're making a difference on a day to day basis as a doctor, researcher[/quote]
That's fine. If one's sole purpose in life is to delude oneself into believing that your job produces the most direct "social worth", by all means, work in medicine or medical research. But recognize that these are nothing more than self-aggrandizing fantasies. Individual people are not important. You have no cosmic purpose. People who fix stop lights in Manhattan save more lives in a few years than do doctors in their entire careers. But if adding a year to the lifespan of another wealthy Westerner with terminal cancer makes the oncologist feel like a "better, more ethical person" than the investment banker, and that makes him/her feel better at night, I encourage it. That satisfaction is wholly psychological, however; and our cultural climate is the only thing that causes us to revere the doctor and despise the banker.
If it is your goal to find "meaning" in you job, you need to examine your priorities, because there are so many more fulfilling things than having a job that reduces you to pretentious magniloquence.
Man, I just gotta disagree with this. You must not know many lawyers.
True. But - again - it's still Kool Aid. "Saving lives" is the Kool Aid of doctors, "defending justice" is the Kool Aid of lawyers, "driving innovation" is the Kool Aid of entrepreneurs, "unlocking value" is the Kool Aid of bankers. It's all the same shit.
Being a banker is just as meaningless as being a doctor, which is just as meaningless as being a lawyer, which is just as meaningless as hoping that your app/SaaS/social website is the next big thing. Have fun with what you do, build relationships with the people around you and be fucking happy. You aren't going to find any objective truths about "what job is the best", because that's how capitalism works.
My real point with the post above: please, please, please do not take a job because it makes you feel important. Not only is that absurdly pretentious, it's also a recipe for unhappiness and akin to taking a job just to make a stack of money.
Oh man, now you're just making me feel like I HAVE to respond to you. :P
Hence why I am specifically referring to jobs right out of college. I agree that resident hours royally suck, but that is another 4 years down the line. As a 22 year old, it sucks to see your friends going out at night and weekends when you're stuck working. For your med student who has ground out 4 years of pre-med undergrad with a near-perfect GPA, med school is just more of the same.
I agree. We might all just be bacteria in the petri dish that is earth, but this is what many people do to help themselves sleep at night and wake up in the morning. And that is fine by me. The sum of the whole is greater than the individual and all that shit. Yeah, once in a while doctors get sued or yelled at, but they also get personally thanked way more often than mechanics or bankers. Hell, this sense of overblown self-importance and desire for personal gratification - along with naivete - is what drives people to become teachers or doctors to start clinics in Africa.
No, I actually interned at a biglaw firm. For a person who derives personal satisfaction from helping individuals, there is a lot of opportunity for pro bono work. It's great for firm PR, so they can even bill the hours internally. Yes, helping a single mother is absolutely insignificant in the cosmic universe but because humans are emotional creatures, saving kids and taking pain away from people is more tangibly fulfilling than making pitchbooks and, you know what? It makes many people happy. Some people require a sense of purpose to feel happy. Others substitute it with religion. Life is meaningless, even Stephen Hawking says so. You're still alive and posting on this forum so obviously something makes you tick.
I disagree wholeheartedly. I hope we're not splitting hairs on semantics but placing value on your work and feeling that what one does is important, if only to individuals, absolutely can parlay into a sense of fulfillment and happiness.
LOL. dude, you have no clue what med school is like. My girlfriend and several good friends are in their third year of med school now, and I assure you, these people barely have the time to party more than once a week, if that. And when I say party once a week, I don't mean rage. Most of the time, they're just drinking casually and staying up later than usual.
The med school/residency treatment is absolutely brutal, and with the exception of horrendous banking weeks (100+ hrs), is worse than the average work week/stress associated with the typical banking gig.
I think main differencei s becuz crap u do in residencyactually maters - in bankin all we do is format/"model" aka update old models/use math we fck up
That's what I'm here for: to provoke others into indulging my desire for constructive debate.
I know several people in med school, and I can tell you that they are partying with no greater frequency than the bankers I know. In fact, they party less because they try to save money to pay off student debt in the future. Workload in med school is incredibly heavy.
Also, I don't see what the point is here. Sure, it's hard to watch your friends go out when you're 22 during the week (bankers go out all the time on the weekend, so I don't think the second part is relevant), but it's also hard to watch your friends go out when you're 25. It's also hard to watch them maintain healthy, consistent relationships while you're cooped in your Big Law office or on call at the hospital for the night shift.
I mean... good for them. They can all have their own pretentious "I'm saving the world" parties and attend conferences to even further inflate their sense of self-importance. It's all a ridiculous exercise, and because I live in the rational world, I'll indulge in things that are far more fulfilling, like going out with my friends and travelling. I have no delusions of grandeur, and I mostly hate people that think they're important. Great. I get thanked when I open the door for people too. Or when I donate money to charity. Or when I chip in so that my friends can fly to California to see Coachella. I find all of that much more fulfilling than having two-faced randos thank me when I get them off and turn around and curse me when things don't turn out so well. Or have families that thank me when I'm successful and lawyer-up and sue me when things go wrong (incidentally, I'm sure they are thanking their lawyers!). I guess that's just a difference of priorities.I think if the reason you're becoming a teacher or volunteering in Africa is so you can feel more cosmic importance, you have some self-esteem issues. I taught AP exams at inner-city schools during college, and I did it because I like teaching / public speaking and I thought I had something tangible to offer the kids at those schools. Because I did, I was paid for it. And that didn't make it any less fulfilling than having done it for free.
It was a great experience, but I feel no more important in the world because I helped a few kids get into college. In truth, I just prevented a few other kids from getting into the same college in the stead of my students. All a terrifically zero-sum game of self-indulgence, since I got a tearful thank you at the end of the day while some other mother consoled her crying child because he/she didn't get in? Does that make me more "important" than a banker? Because I got thanked?? How arrogant one must be to think that way.
As is there satisfaction in doing pro-bono financial planning. Either way, most big law associates spend the vast majority of their time rephrasing abstract language that only exists because of a dense body of regulatory code that no unstudied person can understand. If that's not an invented job, I don't know what is. Let's not even get started with M&A lawyers, tax attorneys, etc. Listen to this. "Religion is substituted for synthetic occupational significance". If your goal in joining a religious institution is to augment your feeling of occupational insignificance, I can think of no greater way to waste your time. You're almost explicitly conceding its falsity, but pursuing it nonetheless in a desperate attempt to inject purpose into your life.Arguments like this just make me feel ill. It's nothing against you, and I know that people say stuff like this, but it's the most pointless retort to metaphysical realism I have ever encountered.
The logic runs something like this:
P1: One needs cosmic "meaning" or "purpose" to motivate any action
P2: Cosmic "meaning" or "purpose" does not exist in the bounds of metaphysical realism / objectivism
I1: You are a metaphysical realist and continue to motivate action in your life
T1: You must have fabricated cosmic "meaning" or "purpose"
Which is pretty much the main line of existentialism. The problem is that T1 is self-contradictory, given that something fabricated by definition cannot be cosmic. From there, the rest of this logic breaks down, which defeats P1. One can continue to act without conjuring up "meaning" or "purpose" and continuing to exist in the objective world.
I cannot possibly disagree more here. Inflated self-importance is pretty much the definition of pretentiousness. There's a magnificent difference between "placing value on your work" and "feeling what one does is important". Employed individuals are doing valuable work, de facto. we all exist in an increasingly global community in which everyone is working for everyone else. And by virtue of free exchange, we are able to collectively raise the average standard of living on our planet. Nevertheless, not a single one of us is important.
Importance is a delusion, value is an objective reality. The bridge to job satisfaction is recognizing the value of what you do, regardless of how abstract or indirect that value may be.
Just because no one thanks the garbage man doesn't mean that his work is not valuable, and just because he is paid less than the doctor doesn't mean that he has less "life meaning" or "importance". His ability to recognize that fact is the barrier between his own legitimate personal satisfaction. Joining a religious organization or accepting people's apologetic gratefulness as a source of psychological satisfaction is an awesome way to put your self-esteem in the commanding hands of others. They'll keep thanking you until the day when you can no longer pick up their garbage (take this metaphorically, as well as literally), and after that you will be left without direction. That is, in my view, a horrible way to live.
While I agree residency hours are equally long to banking hours, the biggest difference is visibility of your schedule / control of your time. If you are working 80+ hour weeks in a residency, you have a set schedule of when those hours will be, what the days off will be, etc. So while the hours are long, there is light at the end of the tunnel. You can plan your days off however you feel and not need to worry.
The worst part of banking hours (at least in my opinion) is the overall uncertainty of your schedule at all times. It's almost impossible to plan stuff ahead without at least knowing it can be blown up at any second with a quick Friday afternoon email. Even when you have a weekend where you are not "working" you have to constantly check your Blackberry and there is always a chance something will come in and you need to be available (to a reasonable extent). You are never truly off in banking and if you are you don't know when those days are coming. This makes the hours extremely difficult.
TL;DR is as follows:
Inflated self-importance is pretty much the definition of pretentiousness.
Importance is a delusion, value is an objective reality.
no need to thx moi jus pay it forward lol
+1SB - perfect.
Have you ever heard of being on call during residency? That's pretty much exactly the same thing as what you're describing for banking.
NS when you run for president can I be part of your posse
Not exactly. Being on call during your residency is part of your weekly/monthly schedule. You know exactly when you are going to have to be on call and when you are not and have a day off. This is very different than banking where you are essentially always on call. There are no set nights or weekends where you know you should be on the lookout for a new pitch and others when you know you are completely free. Projects come in whenever and you don't really have visibility into this for the most part.
To a certain extent you're right, though it is somewhat group-specific. The bigger your group, the more difficult it is to have visibility re: your schedule. That said, most bankers can count on having at least Friday and Saturday night free to go out. And when they go out, they'll be able to go wherever they want for however long they want. Not so with the two-year-removed med student on a
i dun think u r using B) in the correct context
You have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about, and your posts have demonstrably negative utility in this thread.
WTF are you talking about? My entire post responding to you related to whether getting "thanked" by people equated to a more fulfilling / important profession. Also, it seems I need to seriously dumb down my arguments to ensure you don't get lost, because apparently they don't teach "context clues" in your econ program. Let's take a look back at the argument:
My point here - quite obviously - has nothing to do with the theoretical capabilities of computers. It has to do with the fact that doctors do not possess irreplaceable skills. They aren't "saving lives" in any empyrean sense. I wouldn't die of an appendicitis if the random doctor to whom I was assigned at the local hospital elected not to go to med school, I would just have been assigned a different doctor and some other student would have taken his/her spot in med school. Believing that you are "saving lives" as a doctor is unbelievably pretentious. As is believing that you are "unlocking value" as a banker, or "serving justice" as a lawyer, or "preparing the next generation" as a teacher. You are NOT that important.
Wow! Thanks for Googling "different types of lawyers" for me. I'm soooooooooo impressed. Do you realize how obtuse you're being? Or do you seriously not understand that the different types of lawyers has no relevance to the argument I'm making. The vast majority of Big Law Associates aren't litigators; they aren't shouting at the judge and defending the innocent like you see on Boston Legal. They are reading depositions, researching case law, rearranging legal language in contracts, etc. The fact that you bring up family law, criminal law and martial law informs me that you have no idea what Big Law is. They have categorical sway over the relevant lawyers. Obviously bankers aren't bossing around immigration lawyers, but corporate and M&A lawyers (who actually work with bankers) are consistently bossed around by junior bankers.Once again highlighting the fact that you have absolutely no idea how much lawyers / bankers make and that your pontificating is worthless in this thread.
The lowliest entrepreneur is a complete failure. Please tell me how someone starting a crappy restaurant that goes under is "more conducive to technological progress" than an analyst. Also, by what authority have you decided that "technological progress" is the ultimate adjudicator of value in this world?
And I suppose you believe that the Associates at Big Law firms put murderers in jail?
That's actually embarrassing, considering the rest of your post. You're such a prick, I love it. There are so many problems with this. Forget that I am so tempted to quote... oh fine I'll just do it. 1) None of the first and second year lawyers you list here make more than first or second year IB analysts. So it appears you agree to narrow down to corporate / M&A law to make your point. 2) Even first and second year Associates at Skadden, Davis Polk, Ropes, etc. make narrowly more than first and second year Analysts. And those analysts will make multiples of their litigious peers' salaries as first and second year Associates in IB / PE / HFs. 3) A first year associate at Skadden has gone through three years of law school. He's 25. By 25, an former IB analyst at GS would be making nearly 2x as much. Not to mention the mountain of student debt the Associate is servicing. 4) A "first year surgeon" has gone through 3-5 year of med school, 1 year as an intern, and 3-7 years as a resident. He's 30. By that time, the top tier analyst will, still, be making multiples of the doctor's salary. And again, he won't have the mountain of student debt to service. So, no, the economic benefit isn't less.This contradicts your initial point, "Banking analysts create zero social value in theory."
Lets just agree to not agree because you're being a little baby. Also you're a big smelly buttface and your breath smells like sulfur.
: ) awwww bb.
I can't believe such an inance thread could evolve into an even more inane argument on the semantics of metaphysics and adding value to society. Why can't we all just get along?
I understand it's like this for analysts, but what about for associates? I am considering applying to b-school and looking at an IB associate role as a career option, so I'm interested to hear how much/little control an associate has over his own time.
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Harum dolorem voluptatem dolore omnis velit officiis. Itaque perferendis ut in consequatur. Dolorum quos veritatis placeat et aperiam. Voluptatum ad accusamus quae saepe officia doloremque. Culpa nulla doloremque dolore aut non in sit.
Omnis excepturi molestiae magni quis. Veniam debitis commodi odit est aut voluptatibus in. Aut qui aut accusantium ipsam et assumenda nihil. Id dignissimos eligendi vero nostrum molestiae expedita et.
Repellat omnis inventore ut sed mollitia ab illo. Eligendi blanditiis voluptatem mollitia blanditiis. Molestiae delectus dicta qui ratione id odio aut.
Voluptates odit qui nostrum dolores perspiciatis aut. Ducimus dolorem nihil tenetur velit neque. Omnis non quis fugit est illo sint aspernatur. Molestiae voluptatem rerum adipisci sed minus voluptates.
Quisquam adipisci aliquid quo exercitationem exercitationem et. Delectus ipsa non sed.