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Why Are These Guys Still Doing ER?
 

Hooked on LEAPS's picture
ER
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 6:36am
ER.jpg

Pretty much every guy on that list has a strong track record over multiple years. I would imagine they get offers from HF's all the time to run money and with the current environment at investment banks, I doubt they are able to match what the HF's are willing to offer.

I'm guessing the people that do ER for a very long time have a lower risk tolerance than the guys that switch over to the buy side? Am I missing something here?

Btw, if a top rated research analyst made the switch to the buy side, how much money can they realistically expect to be running?

2012 All-American Research Team

You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche
Tags:
darety's picture

subtle point is the skill

(Baboon, 109
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 5:01pm

subtle point is the skill sets aren't 100% transferable. sell side ER is more of a volume business, churning out reports on a daily basis but buy side is dependent on coming up with investment ideas and their implementation which can involve a different decision making process.

and the money is highly variable on performance, conditions of coverage market and most importantly the buyside firm. buy side comp is nowhere near as structured as sell side and there is considerable variation.

ixjunitxi's picture

Stability, Job Security, No

HF
(Orangutan, 273
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 5:18pm

Stability, Job Security, No real consequences for being wrong

yeahright's picture

ixjunitxi: No real

O
(King Kong, 1,091
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 5:50pm
ixjunitxi:

No real consequences for being wrong

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

WestCoastEastCoast's picture

ER's real job is really

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 5:59pm

ER's real job is really figuring out how to support a 'Buy' rating on every stock, regardless of the quality stock. So really, they aren't trained right on generating investment ideas. And in terms of quality of analysts/associates themselves, let's just say it's pretty common to find mistakes and number inconsistencies in ER reports.

EfferCore's picture

WestCoastEastCoast: ER's real

(Monkey, 57
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 6:21pm
WestCoastEastCoast:

ER's real job is really figuring out how to support a 'Buy' rating on every stock, regardless of the quality stock. So really, they aren't trained right on generating investment ideas. And in terms of quality of analysts/associates themselves, let's just say it's pretty common to find mistakes and number inconsistencies in ER reports.

You are pretty far off base. We pitch short ideas (successfully) all the time.

newfirstyear's picture

I work for a guy on that

ER
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 7:04pm

I work for a guy on that list. It pretty much comes down to comfort. My analyst clears a few million a year, has tons of respect from clients and works 30 hours a week. There's no incentive for him to leave. He doesn't need the extra money or the extra stress.

WestCoastEastCoast's picture

EfferCore: WestCoastEastCoa

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 7:33pm
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:

ER's real job is really figuring out how to support a 'Buy' rating on every stock, regardless of the quality stock. So really, they aren't trained right on generating investment ideas. And in terms of quality of analysts/associates themselves, let's just say it's pretty common to find mistakes and number inconsistencies in ER reports.

You are pretty far off base. We pitch short ideas (successfully) all the time.

I don't see a need to even debate on this one. Of course ER people will defend themselves. I won't bash you either. I'll let Einhorn and Klarman do the talking. Refer to "Margin of Safety" and "Fooling Some People" to see what these hedge fund managers think about ER.

EfferCore's picture

WestCoastEastCoast: EfferCo

(Monkey, 57
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 8:02pm
WestCoastEastCoast:
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:

ER's real job is really figuring out how to support a 'Buy' rating on every stock, regardless of the quality stock. So really, they aren't trained right on generating investment ideas. And in terms of quality of analysts/associates themselves, let's just say it's pretty common to find mistakes and number inconsistencies in ER reports.

You are pretty far off base. We pitch short ideas (successfully) all the time.

I don't see a need to even debate on this one. Of course ER people will defend themselves. I won't bash you either. I'll let Einhorn and Klarman do the talking. Refer to "Margin of Safety" and "Fooling Some People" to see what these hedge fund managers think about ER.

Plenty of sell side analysts are shit and little more than spokespeople for their coverage list. But there is a lot of good research on the street and there are a lot of analysts that move stocks w/their ideas. To not acknowledge that is pretty myopic.

IamObama's picture

I work in ER, my boss is not

ER
(Gorilla, 621
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 8:24pm

I work in ER, my boss is not on that list but is still a top analyst and has received offers, and he gave me one reason when I asked him a while back...lifestyle.

WestCoastEastCoast's picture

EfferCore: WestCoastEastCoa

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 9:37pm
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:

ER's real job is really figuring out how to support a 'Buy' rating on every stock, regardless of the quality stock. So really, they aren't trained right on generating investment ideas. And in terms of quality of analysts/associates themselves, let's just say it's pretty common to find mistakes and number inconsistencies in ER reports.

You are pretty far off base. We pitch short ideas (successfully) all the time.

I don't see a need to even debate on this one. Of course ER people will defend themselves. I won't bash you either. I'll let Einhorn and Klarman do the talking. Refer to "Margin of Safety" and "Fooling Some People" to see what these hedge fund managers think about ER.

Plenty of sell side analysts are shit and little more than spokespeople for their coverage list. But there is a lot of good research on the street and there are a lot of analysts that move stocks w/their ideas. To not acknowledge that is pretty myopic.

I'd agree. No one said the entire ER space is shit. Sure there are top analysts on the sell-side. But those are pretty rare. It's like saying there are some students at SUNY Stony Brook that are extremely smart, who should be at Harvard.

EfferCore's picture

WestCoastEastCoast: EfferCo

(Monkey, 57
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 10:28pm
WestCoastEastCoast:
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:

ER's real job is really figuring out how to support a 'Buy' rating on every stock, regardless of the quality stock. So really, they aren't trained right on generating investment ideas. And in terms of quality of analysts/associates themselves, let's just say it's pretty common to find mistakes and number inconsistencies in ER reports.

You are pretty far off base. We pitch short ideas (successfully) all the time.

I don't see a need to even debate on this one. Of course ER people will defend themselves. I won't bash you either. I'll let Einhorn and Klarman do the talking. Refer to "Margin of Safety" and "Fooling Some People" to see what these hedge fund managers think about ER.

Plenty of sell side analysts are shit and little more than spokespeople for their coverage list. But there is a lot of good research on the street and there are a lot of analysts that move stocks w/their ideas. To not acknowledge that is pretty myopic.

I'd agree. No one said the entire ER space is shit. Sure there are top analysts on the sell-side. But those are pretty rare. It's like saying there are some students at SUNY Stony Brook that are extremely smart, who should be at Harvard.

lol. How often do you talk to sell siders?

WestCoastEastCoast's picture

EfferCore: WestCoastEastCoa

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 11:33pm
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:

ER's real job is really figuring out how to support a 'Buy' rating on every stock, regardless of the quality stock. So really, they aren't trained right on generating investment ideas. And in terms of quality of analysts/associates themselves, let's just say it's pretty common to find mistakes and number inconsistencies in ER reports.

You are pretty far off base. We pitch short ideas (successfully) all the time.

I don't see a need to even debate on this one. Of course ER people will defend themselves. I won't bash you either. I'll let Einhorn and Klarman do the talking. Refer to "Margin of Safety" and "Fooling Some People" to see what these hedge fund managers think about ER.

Plenty of sell side analysts are shit and little more than spokespeople for their coverage list. But there is a lot of good research on the street and there are a lot of analysts that move stocks w/their ideas. To not acknowledge that is pretty myopic.

I'd agree. No one said the entire ER space is shit. Sure there are top analysts on the sell-side. But those are pretty rare. It's like saying there are some students at SUNY Stony Brook that are extremely smart, who should be at Harvard.

lol. How often do you talk to sell siders?

How often do you talk to the buysiders?

Look, you're obviously not happy with me perceiving the overall ER industry as shitty investors and won't be satisfied until I admit defeat and say to you that ER people are great investors. No need to apply the spinning art you learn in ER on me. Get HFs to hire more ER guys if they're so stellar. I'm not interested in continuing this meanless exchange with you. Readers on this post can make their own judgment about ER from objective sources.

EfferCore's picture

WestCoastEastCoast: EfferCo

(Monkey, 57
 
Points)
 on 12/29/12 at 11:46pm
WestCoastEastCoast:
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:
EfferCore:
WestCoastEastCoast:

ER's real job is really figuring out how to support a 'Buy' rating on every stock, regardless of the quality stock. So really, they aren't trained right on generating investment ideas. And in terms of quality of analysts/associates themselves, let's just say it's pretty common to find mistakes and number inconsistencies in ER reports.

You are pretty far off base. We pitch short ideas (successfully) all the time.

I don't see a need to even debate on this one. Of course ER people will defend themselves. I won't bash you either. I'll let Einhorn and Klarman do the talking. Refer to "Margin of Safety" and "Fooling Some People" to see what these hedge fund managers think about ER.

Plenty of sell side analysts are shit and little more than spokespeople for their coverage list. But there is a lot of good research on the street and there are a lot of analysts that move stocks w/their ideas. To not acknowledge that is pretty myopic.

I'd agree. No one said the entire ER space is shit. Sure there are top analysts on the sell-side. But those are pretty rare. It's like saying there are some students at SUNY Stony Brook that are extremely smart, who should be at Harvard.

lol. How often do you talk to sell siders?

How often do you talk to the buysiders?

Look, you're obviously not happy with me perceiving the overall ER industry as shitty investors and won't be satisfied until I admit defeat and say to you that ER people are great investors. No need to apply the spinning art you learn in ER on me. Get HFs to hire more ER guys if they're so stellar. I'm not interested in continuing this meanless exchange with you. Readers on this post can make their own judgment about ER from objective sources.

You didn't answer the question. Do you talk to the sell side regularly?

I talk to buy side every day. So if you were implying that you talk to the sell side pretty often, then fair enough.

Just trying to gauge whether your opinion is based on actual experience or surface level analysis of research reports.

leveredarb's picture

OP I think you overestimate

(King Kong, 1,228
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 9:18am

OP I think you overestimate how easy it is to move from ER to HF, most ER guys are viewed quite poorly by the HF world.

for the guys that can switch its a matter of stress, convenience etc.

roar19's picture

Dude just give up. Everybody

ER
(Baboon, 108
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 9:04am

Dude just give up. Everybody on this board shits on ER and all have hard-ons for what they foresee to be the "models and bottles" life of IB or S&T.

Very few people actually understand the value that analysts add. And let me give all of you fuckers a hint - its not company estimates, ratings, or price targets.

Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules.

Viktri's picture

Sell-side ER and buy-side HF

 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 9:27am

- V

newfirstyear's picture

This is just factually

ER
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 10:27am
leveredarb's picture

roar19: Dude just give up.

(King Kong, 1,228
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 10:44am
joblo1's picture

I never post but too much bad

(Chimp, 14
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 11:10am
The Greater Fool's picture

.

(Chimp, 8
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 12:21pm
Amphipathic's picture

yeahright: ixjunitxi: No

 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 12:33pm
WestCoastEastCoast's picture

joblo1: I never post but too

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 6:41pm
joblo1's picture

Reality is virtually no one

(Chimp, 14
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 7:32pm
EfferCore's picture

WestCoastEastCoast: joblo1:

(Monkey, 57
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 7:57pm
WestCoastEastCoast's picture

joblo1: Reality is virtually

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 8:13pm
WestCoastEastCoast's picture

EfferCore: WestCoastEastCoa

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 8:17pm
joblo1's picture

This is funny, you keep

(Chimp, 14
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 8:30pm
joblo1's picture

I would also add, just

(Chimp, 14
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 8:33pm
SirTradesaLot's picture

I definitely haven't worked

O
 
Points)
 on 12/30/12 at 9:13pm

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

WestCoastEastCoast's picture

Oh pleasse, don't even get

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 1:13am
Aston Gekko's picture

WestCoastEastCoast: ER's real

(Monkey, 34
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 7:37am
Aston Gekko's picture

joblo1: I never post but too

(Monkey, 34
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 7:46am
Febreeze's picture

wow this thread actually

(King Kong, 1,151
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 11:45am

RIP WSO Chat.

leveredarb's picture

WestCoastEastCoast: Oh

(King Kong, 1,228
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 12:10pm
West Coast rainmaker's picture

I would say the above stated

ER
(Neanderthal, 2,072
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 1:05pm
SirTradesaLot's picture

I find it funny that people

O
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 1:18pm

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

Hooked on LEAPS's picture

SirTradesaLot: I find it

ER
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 1:23pm

You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche

SirTradesaLot's picture

Hooked on

O
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 1:45pm

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

leveredarb's picture

mf comp is lot lower than hf

(King Kong, 1,228
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 2:19pm
SirTradesaLot's picture

leveredarb: mf comp is lot

O
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 3:03pm

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

Amphipathic's picture

SirTradesaLot: I find it

 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 5:00pm
Hooked on LEAPS's picture

SirTradesaLot: Hooked on

ER
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 5:45pm

You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche

WestCoastEastCoast's picture

SirTradesaLot: I find it

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 6:13pm
SirTradesaLot's picture

Hooked on

O
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 7:33pm

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

SirTradesaLot's picture

WestCoastEastCoast: SirTrad

O
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 7:40pm

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

EfferCore's picture

Hooked on

(Monkey, 57
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 8:08pm
EfferCore's picture

WestCoastEastCoast: SirTrad

(Monkey, 57
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 8:12pm
WestCoastEastCoast's picture

EfferCore: WestCoastEastCoa

(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 9:02pm
slowdive's picture

A lot of strong views and

HF
 
Points)
 on 12/31/12 at 9:25pm
vitaminc's picture

Sellside ER and MF background

AM
(Baboon, 115
 
Points)
 on 1/1/13 at 2:23am

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