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(Senior Neanderthal, 5,150

Points)

on 2/11/11 at 10:38am

Not sure what you think you'll be doing in MM that is so different. Seriously, how do you think it's different? I have a feeling you have a very skewed view as to what MM PE Associates do. I am a MM PE Associate and would like to hear what your thoughts are.

Correct me if I'm wrong but

lurker22

(Monkey, 45

Points)

on 2/12/11 at 10:05am

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't associates MM shops have a broader role in the investment process (i.e. not just modeling and writing memos but also working closer w/ portfolio companies and given greater responsibility to evaluate investments)? This seems to be something that is important to me -- even if the MM firm is not as well-known.

Also does the experience at growth equity shops (General Atlantic) differ much in terms of learning? I'd like to go somewhere it's not just like spending another 2 years in banking.

You are wrong. The variance

anonymous_analyst

(Baboon, 154

Points)

on 2/12/11 at 2:35pm

You are wrong. The variance of work/life balance and investment process/style within megafunds and MM funds is greater than the differences between the two on average in my opinion.

don't overglamorize the associate role

surferdude867 wrote: Risk

SaberRider

(Monkey, 52

Points)

on 2/13/11 at 12:21pm

surferdude867:

Risk aversion, prestige, pay, in that order.

If you find a MM PE shop that grants you carry right from the beginning I doubt that you make more money at a megafund during your first two years. Correct me if I am wrong though.

lurker22 wrote: Correct me if

(Senior Neanderthal, 5,150

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 8:45am

lurker22:

Also does the experience at growth equity shops (General Atlantic) differ much in terms of learning? I'd like to go somewhere it's not just like spending another 2 years in banking.

"working closely with portfolio companies and given greater responsibility to evaluate investments." What do you think this means? What do you honestly think you will be doing in PE?

Not trying to be a dick, just so sick of reading about people who want to do MM PE for "operational improvements" and "doing more than modeling and memos." These vague catchphrases that analysts jerk off too (I did once, as well) need to be thrown in the garbage. PE is a deal business, you work on transactions. That means modeling, research, presentations and memos. It means reading a bunch of shit for due diligence and a lot of the same kind of shit you did as an analyst in banking. Yes, your firm owns companies, and you monitor them, but you are not making decisions about how to improve them, if anything, you're analyzing add-ons that come along.

Contrary to what many seem to believe, when you join PE you are not going to become some important hot shot, taking an elevator to the top of a really tall building, sitting behind a desk, making decisions all day. No, you're going to be doing a shit-ton of modeling, memo writing, and due diligence crap that will often bore you to death. Furthermore, there is a shit ton of internal crap to do, just as at a bank. No, you don't get pitches staffed on Friday at 4pm, but it doensn't mean that the work is fundamentally different. At all.

TheKing wrote: No, you don't

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 10:23am

TheKing:

No, you don't get pitches staffed on Friday at 4pm, but it doensn't mean that the work is fundamentally different. At all.

and...you might get staffed on some nonsense potential investment on Friday at 4pm (or 5 or 6 pm) that requires an indication of interest by end of day Monday. then your life isn't much better than the analyst starting on a pitch on a Friday evening...

PE is banking 2.0. slightly better hours. way bigger paychecks. same mind-numbing work.

bankbank, let's not mislead

(Senior Neanderthal, 5,150

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 10:27am

bankbank, let's not mislead here. The paycheck is definitely not guaranteed to be much bigger, nor does it make up for the fact that it's banking 2.0 with a better sounding job description.

I was in no way saying that

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 11:39am

I was in no way saying that the paycheck makes up for the fact that my PE job is turning my once sharp mind into mush and that I still spend my days wishing I were working somewhere else and posting on WSO to distract myself from the stuff I'm supposed to be doing.

Regarding the pay, I am talking about moving from being an analyst at a BB to being an associate at a big PE fund. I am still the one getting shat on at the bottom of the totem pole, but my pay more than doubled when I switched. Had I stayed in banking for another year and then gotten the associate promote, I wouldn't be making nearly as much money. MM PE might pay a little less, but from the offers I saw it still paid way more than I would have received as an analyst/associate in banking. The difference in pay might not be as great once you start moving up in PE and more of your pay is dependent on your fund's performance, but I don't know.

to answer OP, I think

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on 2/14/11 at 12:01pm

to answer OP, I think prestige is the biggest motivator.

a lot of us in finance are type A. we want to be the best and work for the best and we want to do the big deals that make the front page of the journal (just like you told your interviewer for your summer analyst job...hah). we want to go to harvard and then we want to work for goldman and then we want to work for KKR. we hear people talk about these places being the best and that's what we go for. that's why there are 10 new "what's the best bank/group?" posts on this forum every day.

i had the choice between MM and MF. the guys at the MM were cool as shit and i'm sure it would have been a blast (well...a relative blast) to work with those guys. the pay was the same at the MM. in the end, and against advice from my parents about doing what would make me happier, I went with the bigger fund. I wasn't sure if I wanted to do PE forever and I figured it would look better on my resume if/when I looked to exit. All the senior guys had gone to HBS (as is the case at every MF) so I figured that would be good if I wanted to do Bschool. correct choice or not, i basically decided based on the fact that the MF was bigger and would look better on my resume.

TheKing and bankbank are 100%

TexasIB

(Monkey, 63

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 1:44pm

TheKing and bankbank are 100% correct. You're still the lowest on the totem poll, and you'll be doing more than your fair share of mind-numbing, menial work most of the time. I'd say 75% of the time I'm doing similar tasks than what I did in banking. Not the exact same thing, but similar in terms of modeling, number crunching, "analysis", etc. The social aspect of work is far different as well, and don't underestimate that. The comradarie of banking is non-existant in PE. Most of my friends in PE believe all these things are true at their firms as well, so I don't feel I'm that much of an outlier.

That being said, the hours are better than in banking, which is fantastic. I also travel to meetings much more than in banking. I talk to the CEO and CFO of portfolio companies often, though the novelty of that wears off pretty quickly.

Remember in college when you all you wanted to do is banking, because even though you heard from your older friends in banking how much it sucked, you thought it actually sounded cool and exciting? Then you got there and your friends were right, it sucked. Then, when you're in banking, all you wanted to do is jump to PE because it sounded so cool to be on the buyside, even though older friends in PE said it was just like Banking 2.0? Same thing.

TexasIB: Remember in college

apprentice7697

(Baboon, 102

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 4:57pm

TexasIB: Remember in college when you all you wanted to do is banking, because even though you heard from your older friends in banking how much it sucked, you thought it actually sounded cool and exciting? Then you got there and your friends were right, it sucked. Then, when you're in banking, all you wanted to do is jump to PE because it sounded so cool to be on the buyside, even though older friends in PE said it was just like Banking 2.0? Same thing.

Wow. That's a reality-check moment. What the hell are we all doing?

I highly doubt that someone a

SAC

(King Kong, 1,171

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 5:14pm

I highly doubt that someone a few years out of college can add tangible operational value to a portfolio company who's management has probably been involved in the industry for decades. Just think about it.

I don't agree with that. It

apprentice7697

(Baboon, 102

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 5:20pm

I don't agree with that. It depends on the fund's focus. I work for a lower middle market fund, targeting companies with 50-150m revenue. More than a few of our port co's are family-run businesses with unprofessional mgmnt teams (I don't mean that disrespectfully) who make decisions on gut, never data. Most of our energy companies have CEOs with no more than a high-school education. I'm often assigned to think-through some quality metrics, develop some dashboards, bring data to bear on their decision-making. Forget whether I personally add value. The role of the associate in this case can add tangible value to a mgmnt team even if it HAS been in the industry that long. They bring experience. We peddle a really good tool kit.

Put it this way, the CEO of an oil and gas waste management company used to drive the service trucks himself. He doesn't know the first thing about managing his balance sheet. He's never (really) had to care before. Even if it is a $70m company. I'm no genius, but that's something I can bring to the table. I think it adds value.

That's a good question

TexasIB

(Monkey, 63

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 5:35pm

apprentice7697 wrote: More

Kenny_Powers_CFA

(Neanderthal, 2,194

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 5:45pm

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.

SaberRider

Marcus_Halberstram

(Neanderthal, 3,437

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 7:02pm

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So the question is... how

jimbrowngoU

(King Kong, 1,304

Points)

on 2/14/11 at 10:40pm

jimbrowngoU wrote: So the

Points)

on 2/15/11 at 12:33am

Fair enough, and I appreciate

jimbrowngoU

(King Kong, 1,304

Points)

on 2/15/11 at 8:42am

I am at a lower middle market

(Senior Neanderthal, 5,150

Points)

on 2/15/11 at 9:33am

jimbrowngoU wrote: I like to

apprentice7697

(Baboon, 102

Points)

on 2/15/11 at 9:47am

The King is 100% correct

HFFBALLfan123

(King Kong, 1,371

Points)

on 2/15/11 at 11:10am

-1

This discussion is really

Otter.

(Gorilla, 556

Points)

on 2/15/11 at 11:31am

Hi, Eric Stratton, rush chairman, damn glad to meet you.

Otter. wrote: This discussion

(Senior Neanderthal, 5,150

Points)

on 2/15/11 at 12:02pm

Let me basically summarize

(Senior Neanderthal, 5,150

Points)

on 2/15/11 at 12:05pm