Why is everyone obsessed with NYC?
It seems like it's NYC or nothing for many of you, and anyone who goes anywhere else must have had "issues" or "went to a non-target." I'm just curious because I went to a target (ivy-caliber private), but decided to work at an IB at a big bank in the home state of my alma mater. I make the same as my friends in NYC, and my cost of living is a lot lower. Obviously, they have better exit opps, but is it really worth it to live in NYC with the just insane cost of living? There are great cities all over the country (Houston, Charlotte, SLC, Atlanta, etc. Hell, even Chicago can be cheaper than NYC) that pay just the same as NYC and offer much better quality of life, cheaper living, and awesome social scenes.
Are people just really obsessed with being able to say "I work at [prestigious bank] in NYC" or am I missing something? Anyone want to weigh in on this? Interested to hear from other people who work in IBD, but not in NYC, and how they fare. Thanks
That's a gross oversimplification, but basically yes. Also people think their exit opportunities will be better from NYC.
I think a lot of people would like to be in finance and not be in NYC, especially as people get older, but the vast majority of finance jobs are in NYC. Especially at the large firms. Outside of tech in the Bay Area and energy in Houston (and probably add Chicago, I just don't have much personal experience with it), the problem is that if you need/want a new job there are a very limited amount of decent firms to choose from, especially at BB's and in the functions you'd want to perform. And that carries over to the buyside if someone wants to go that route. Most major cities have a few decent options but not that many, so if you live in Charlotte, Boston, Philly, Atlanta, etc. and need a new job there's a good chance that means you're moving (I question your sanity calling SLC a cool city...).
And for the most part, to get that entry level BB or top tier boutique, that means NYC. Sure you could get lucky and get one of the few FO roles in other cities if you don't want to live in NYC but chances are that's not happening.
Plus NYC's pretty fun when you're young (or if you're older and rich).
I dont live in NY and never have but I understand the appeal, especially in finance. NYC is the capital of the US and has world class food, nightlife, and women. Theres a lot of entertainment, young professionals your age, and you dont need a car. Sure, things are more expensive, but you get paid more. Youre not going to be saving life changing amounts of money your first couple of years on the job anyway, even in SLC.
The most important aspect is the job opportunities. I currently live in a smaller city, and if I lost my job tomorrow I would have maybe 4-5 companies I could work for that would be in the fortune 500 range, and a couple of tiny boutiques with under ten employees. Companies in NYC and SF are often reluctant to interview employees from other cities when they have massive pools of talent in their own city. Networking is a lot tougher, you cant grab coffee with somebody during the week, which makes it hard to grab a piece of their weekend, you can make phone calls but those are always much less effective. Moving for a job sounds really easy to you now, but when you have a significant other who works, you need to worry about relocating them, and having them most likely take a hit in salary or other areas in order to make it work. Not to mention when you get older its harder to make close friends, so if you're in a city with a good social circle you probably wont want to leave.
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Opportunities won't present themselves as easily in other cities. Many banks have a presence in other lower cost cities, but that isn't true of all PE firms, HFs, Credit funds or many other fortune 500 companies.
If you look at the majority of the boutiques and other small shops that open up in other cities you'll notice one thing in common. The MD's generally have either BB NYC experience or are have been in the industry they cover for a long time.
It's all about getting the experience for the exit opportunities.
Networking, prestige and lifestyle were my top three reasons for heading to NYC. The experience sticks with you forever, especially as a first job out of college.
For me (doesn't mean for everyone else, especially sensitive hippies):
1) Finance capital of the world, 2) Cultural capital of the world, 3) Incredible people from all over the planet, 4) Night life that is incomparable (except some European cities and Vegas/Miami)
And dozens of other reasons. Some people like this city. It's exciting and has an incredible energy. Different strokes for different folks. Don't dog people that go to New York and apply gross oversimplifications to them just because you don't like it.
And yes, there are some huge career benefits to starting in New York. It doesn't mean it's the only place you can be successful (especially given a person's definition of success), but it is doubtless that there are a wealth of opportunities that exist here that don't exist everywhere else.
You didn't go to a target.
lol, I didn't? Do you know me? I went to Duke, bud. I'm in Charlotte rn.
Right. So you didn't go to a target.
I've lived in Sydney and Hong Kong, now NY. A few thoughts:
High end food is good, but middle market food here in NY is very pedestrian and pales in comparison with most of places I've lived and visited
Italian food in NY is terrible. It's like all the Italians who could cook and make good coffee immigrated to every place except NY, leaving NY with the shitty backwater Italians who think their grandmother's spaghetti in watery meat sauce is the height of Italian cuisine
Culture (museums, galleries, societies, multiculturalism) is good and very accessible. I'm an ancient art nut and haven't seen this many Graeco-Roman penises outside of Paris and London
A lot fewer pedestrians and cars than HK, which is quite relaxing
People loudly live their lives out on the street, talking about the inanely mundane drama of their lives at what I consider 3 notches too loud. People probably did this in HK, but my Cantonese comprehension is low and I wouldn't have understood. Sydney (at least when I left it 12 years ago) had more "keep it to yourself" British reserve. I prefer the quieter approach
Career-wise, it's good to be at the nexus point for the nice, deep and liquid US markets. I wouldn't call this the centre of the financial world, because that's the sort of ignorant shit people in NY say when they've never lived in other financial centres (eg HK, London) when NY and US markets are a secondary concern. However, the markets are deep, liquid and diverse here, which means good deal flow, which means good experience and constant work.
Unlike Asia, there's also a lot of transparency, which also helps learning. But you could get that anywhere in the US (but would you get the deal flow?).
In terms of career development, I think I would have learned more and advanced my banking skills faster if I'd spent most of my 30s in NY rather than HK. On the other hand, I wouldn't have had the benefit of HK's 15% tax rate which left me shoveling heaps of spare cash into my bank account throughout my 30s.
Net net, I'm happier enjoying NY in my almost-40s now with a strong bank balance sitting behind me.
As for NY vs other US cities - if you're going to come to the US as a non-US citizen, I'd go NY. NY is pretty cosmopolitan and multicultural for a US city and the people are still pig-ignorant and US-centric, with barely a grasp on the rest of the world other than "Terrorists, China, Chaos, Holiday Destinations, Black and Brown people, People Who Don't Believe in Jesus". I've traveled in different parts of the US and they are generally worse. If you're going to come to the US and suffer, you may as well minimise your suffering and work in NY.
ungrateful foreigners are the best. You sound like Brady.
You don't complain anything, ever?
SSits you make me curious to check out Sydney.
This thread is actually quite civil overall, I was hoping for another NYC flame war like we've had here a few times in the past. But much more poo is being flung now, you young monkeys are a sensitive bunch
It may well have gone downhill since I left. And some aspects were never uphill to start with.
The lockout laws for pubs in central Sydney have had mixed results.
As for NY vs other US cities - if you're going to come to the US as a non-US citizen, I'd go NY. NY is pretty cosmopolitan and multicultural for a US city and the people are still pig-ignorant and US-centric, with barely a grasp on the rest of the world other than "Terrorists, China, Chaos, Holiday Destinations, Black and Brown people, People Who Don't Believe in Jesus". I've traveled in different parts of the US and they are generally worse. If you're going to come to the US and suffer, you may as well minimise your suffering and work in NY.
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This is very true. I'm a minority here out West and I feel like an alien sometimes.. Some folks from the Midwest just can't handle minorities that are smart and rich. Trying really hard to go East.
May I ask where you are? I would agree that you would probably want to stay out of the smaller communities - generally they are friendly, but probably not as open to 'different' people. I think you're fine in the bigger cities throughout the midwest, though.
Thanks everyone for the advice. You all brought up some great points. I'm getting ready to wrap up my 2nd analyst year, and this fall I'm off to an M7. I figured I really need to figure out where the best places to go would be after that. Guess I'll have to really consider NYC given the amount of options there. Thanks
Who gives shit about all the commentary?! The better question is if you want to leave your firm, what are your exit opportunities? In NYC, there are many; in another city, there are few.
People want freedom/choice. Common sense could easily answer your question and when you face the time to leave your firm you'll realize why people want to work in NYC.
It's a lot easier to network and move to other exit opportunities if you're in a finance hub like NYC. Also, hard to beat Manhattan in your 20s :)
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Equities in Dallas!
in my midwestern city, its all PWM retail or PWM at regional banks. Thats it.
I live in Dallas and visit NYC twice a year on business. I enjoy the hell out of the place when I am there, I just don't think I could live there full time with kids. Single life/Empty nester? Hell ya if I could afford it.
NYC is simply the best city in the world and there are no others that come close. There's a certain level of energy you get in NYC you won't get anywhere else.
Which cities have you lived in outside the US? I'm interested to see the comparison.
In terms of energy, I find NY far slower than Hong Kong or Shanghai, different rhythm than great throbbing European cities like Barcelona or Istanbul.
I'm with you. I'd give NY a shot, no doubt, but I don't think I'd last. I'm from Omaha...lol. Big cities never have been my thing. I stuck in Omaha, landing a position at one of the few IB/PE firms out here. There would be a lot more opportunities and better exit ops out in NY - I think we both know that. But as you said, I make just as much as them - if I work as long as them (which I don't because who the hell wants to work that much) - and I can actually set aside a hefty chunk of my paycheck for investing or vacations, etc.
Working in a place like Omaha is also quite nice because there isn't a lot of competition around, and something as simple as building a financial model for a client amazes them and you can charge nicely for that kind of service. That's not to mention all the Ag-related businesses that need advisory services.
I should mention, as someone said above: "Different strokes for different folks"
Regarding the Italian food, I'm imagining that you are sampling randomly within Manhattan, which any native New Yorker knows is a mistake - even in "Little Italy". You'll do much better in Brooklyn, Queens, or even Staten Island (if your car breaks down there and you have to spend more than the 15 minutes it takes to cross into Jersey or back into Brooklyn). This is a similar complaint to the one I hear from uninformed transplants who eat pizza at Sbarro in Times Square and then proclaim that our pizza is overrated.
Mainly Bronx and Brooklyn.
Similarly, Chinese food is crap in New York.
And I've only found 3 places in this so-called cosmopolitan city where I can get a Malaysian laksa. Laksa is literally the greatest food on earth (particularly with chicken, prawn and flat rice noodles), and I don't even like most Asian food.
One of the problems with the US "melting pot" multiculturalism is that you take all these great foods from around the world, render them down into banal tasting stuff for banal palates, then often douse it in cheese and ketchup.
Case in point - New York pizza. The shittest excuse for pizza I've seen in the world.
This sounds reasonable. Are you eating at Domino's?
Yeah I don't get what the big hype is over NY Pizza.. It is super thin, just regular pizza... Big whoop.
Anyone who considers SLC and Charlotte great cities, i just for the life of me cannot take them serious - bump!!!
Because they're not really "cities" but rather big towns
NYC is the finance capital of the world and this is a finance website. Is a NYC bias really unexpected, OP?
I was right there with you until you mentioned cost of living. You think your extra 10k-20k of savings for 2 years means anything in the grand scheme of things? Shit, that will just be an accounting error down the road if you continue on the finance path.
Go to NYC (or the best firm possible), maximize your chances of a top buyside job, and then you can worry about cost of living once you're actually settled down somewhere.
Cost of living should not be a factor whatsoever since I-banking is temporary, and if it isn't for you then you're already fucked so yeah go live wherever you want.
PS: Charlotte sucks.
100% agree
I was mostly done with this thread, until I saw your comment.
If someone wanted to sum up the stereotypical WSO socially-inept, douchebag into one comment, your comment does it.
How the hell hasn't Boston been mentioned in this thread? Sure, it's not an IB city, but plenty of buy-side firms and more "manageable" than NYC in terms of cost of living, etc
Personally I love Boston, lived there on and off for a dozen years. Great for long only and traditional AM-you can easily make an entire and great career there- and probably second to NYC for HF (?-I'd honestly be interested in hearing from HF guys about that). For PE it's ok and for IB there are a few boutiques and regionals. But for COL it's only slightly better. Love the town though. It's just freaking cold.
If you can't find good food in NYC, you either aren't looking or don't want to pay for it. I find it hard to believe you're finding better Italian & pizza in Hong Kong, or laksa in Barcelona or Istanbul than you can find in NYC.
The Exact Moment Big Cities Got Too Expensive for Millennials - courtesy of me lads (not a typo) from Bloomberg http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-15/the-exact-moment-big-…
Gotta be honest, I regret not doing the NYC finance thing earlier on...I'd like to live there for a year or so, although wouldn't want to stay there forever. The pros are you have like people already said, great restaurants, huge cultural hub with people from all over, and it truly is the finance capital of the world. On the cons, just a lot of weirdness that wouldn't make me want to stay there forever, like the taxes on top of taxes, not being able to drive--I like walkability in a city but I want to be able to drive as an option--plus little things, like I have a folding pocket knife that I just bought at Dick's Sporting Goods in my old state, and it would be illegal in NYC. I doubt a CCW permit would be any easier lol.
I've sent resumes to Boston & the DC metro area. the obsession goes both ways. I would like to get out of NYC and work somewhere else. The competition is fierce. Employers, recruiters keep pushing me to stay in this area. Any suggestions for how to get a position outside of NYC would be welcomed.
I assume that everyone on here who said that NYC is by far the #1 globally has actually lived in every other city with a huge finance muscle. No, that weekend trip to London does not count as having lived in London.
SB'ed to make up for the MS you got for speaking common sense.
Anyone who thinks NYC is the be all end all of big cities needs to visit Tokyo.
I would really like to visit Tokyo - apparently from what I've read it's much larger and more overwhelming. It's also apparently more innovative. Everyone talks about how nice its subway is. If I knew Japanese I'd try out living there in a heartbeat. I lived in London for a few months and it's the only place outside of the US I would live besides a few Canadian/Australian cities because of language.
On another note - why is Boston so much more expensive than say Philadelphia?
Have you been to both cities? Philadelphia is terrible. The market agrees.
LOL wrong and wrong. Maybe a decade or two ago. Have YOU been to both?
Here we go with Philly being terrible.... It's not that bad. Every city has pro's and con's...
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