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With all this female diversity recruiting stuff and stereotype of Chinese and Indian quants/engineers I didn't expect 99% white men. Is this how it is on most BB trading floors?

4

Comments (43)

  • happypantsmcgee's picture

    I see this thread going in a bad direction very quickly...

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

  • fratling's picture
  • runner99's picture

    No I was honestly curious. Just wasn't what I expected. This is NY btw.

  • yesman's picture

    Trading is a meritocracy. Impose diversity on IBD.

  • Seigniorage's picture

    Trading is a meritocracy. Impose diversity on IBD.

    this is a loaded statement. e.g. females and minorities have inferior talent for S&T.
    Think about it this way: what does it take to get into Goldman S&T? (notice I said "get in"). Well, usually it takes a good school, high GPA, and networking ability. Asians work hard and get the good school/GPA bit but perhaps lack on the social graces for networking. Likewise, females at top schools have higher average SATs/GPAs (though less quantitative coursework), but also likewise, aren't as good as men in networking in a male-dominated industry.
    So it comes down to white men networking with white men. Asians/Females can blame themselves for not being able to schmooze with said white men, or they can work on it. Or (asians) can go to Asian divisions of BBs or (females) can pick another career.

  • In reply to Seigniorage
    zbb's picture

    Seigniorage:
    Trading is a meritocracy. Impose diversity on IBD.

    this is a loaded statement. e.g. females and minorities have inferior talent for S&T.
    Think about it this way: what does it take to get into Goldman S&T? (notice I said "get in"). Well, usually it takes a good school, high GPA, and networking ability. Asians work hard and get the good school/GPA bit but perhaps lack on the social graces for networking. Likewise, females at top schools have higher average SATs/GPAs (though less quantitative coursework), but also likewise, aren't as good as men in networking in a male-dominated industry.
    So it comes down to white men networking with white men. Asians/Females can blame themselves for not being able to schmooze with said white men, or they can work on it. Or (asians) can go to Asian divisions of BBs or (females) can pick another career.

    hmm... are you talking about sales here? or sales AND trading? i'm not sure how important networking is to just sales

    and shouldn't this apply to all bbs, not just goldman sachs?

  • In reply to yesman
    MissingNo.'s picture

    yesman:
    Trading is a meritocracy. Impose diversity on IBD.

    I like your style.

    Still not sure if I want to spend the next 30+ years grinding away in corporate finance and the WSO dream chase or look to have enough passive income to live simply and work minimally.

  • Seigniorage's picture

    Looking back at my previous, I think my point wasn't clear. My thesis was that the average minority Asians and white (and minority Asian) Female, are harder working that the average white male in school. Thus, the point of debating diveristy vs. meritocracy is pointless unless you consider networking ability (with white males) a great career merit. GS especially tends to require both the academics AND networking because it is the optimal choice for most recent graduates. I would like to hear if anyone disagrees. Please note the keywords "average" and "tends."

  • Dr Barnaby Fulton's picture

    I know people in S&T, IBD and Wealth Management at Goldman. I know a female in fixed income sales and an Indian market maker. The Wealth Management division is all white men....go figure.

  • In reply to yesman
    Bi-Winning's picture

    yesman:
    Trading is a meritocracy. Impose diversity on IBD.

    Sig worthy.

    Seigniorage:
    Trading is a meritocracy. Impose diversity on IBD.

    this is a loaded statement. e.g. females and minorities have inferior talent for S&T.
    Think about it this way: what does it take to get into Goldman S&T? (notice I said "get in"). Well, usually it takes a good school, high GPA, and networking ability. Asians work hard and get the good school/GPA bit but perhaps lack on the social graces for networking. Likewise, females at top schools have higher average SATs/GPAs (though less quantitative coursework), but also likewise, aren't as good as men in networking in a male-dominated industry.
    So it comes down to white men networking with white men. Asians/Females can blame themselves for not being able to schmooze with said white men, or they can work on it. Or (asians) can go to Asian divisions of BBs or (females) can pick another career.

    You fail.

    I win here, I win there...

  • jim_beam's picture

    Trading is a meritocracy. Impose diversity on IBD.

    Trading is a meritocracy, but actually getting into S&T SA or even FT sometimes isn't necessarily. The hiring in S&T is also very similar to IBD i.e. based on shit like which frat you were in, which sport u played, whether or not you like the same sports team as your interviewer, and whether or not you answered bullshit "fit" questions such as "tell me about a time you failed and were never able to recover" properly

  • trade4size's picture

    Is there something wrong with white men? Did I not get the memo?

    "Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

  • LLcoolJ's picture

    white men > dogs > other men > dogs shit > woman when it comes to the workplace. nothing worse than having a mixed enviroment.

  • In reply to LLcoolJ
    Bi-Winning's picture

    LLcoolJ:
    white men > dogs > other men > dogs shit > woman when it comes to the workplace. nothing worse than having a mixed enviroment.

    Wow, I'm shocked. I never knew that amish farms had access to the internet.

    I win here, I win there...

  • ambition56's picture

    Most of the clients you will be working with as a trader will be HFs, institutional clients, and other traders...
    How many females run HFs? How many females run endowments or pension funds?

    It's just a cultural thing... white men tend to socialize and get along better with OTHER WHITE MEN shocker...

  • HFFBALLfan123's picture

    People like people that look like themselves.... that is a fact. Not to be racist but i would be more inclined to have an apprentice that was a white male with similar beliefs over someone i had nothing in common with.

  • Bondarb's picture

    Goldman trading floor is certainly not mostly white because they give whites preference in hiring. If you are a woman or minority and you want to trade you will have a huge leg up. I think women generally tend not to gravitate toward trading...although I can name quite a few female traders it is still the decided minority.

  • In reply to HFFBALLfan123
    SAC's picture

    HFFBALLfan123:
    People like people that look like themselves.... that is a fact. Not to be racist but i would be more inclined to have an apprentice that was a white male with similar beliefs over someone i had nothing in common with.

    Not true in my case. I just want the hardest working/smartest/least complaining male or female.

  • interestedguy's picture

    why are most girls in IBD asian?

  • ideating's picture

    " Likewise, females at top schools have higher average SATs/GPAs (though less quantitative coursework), but also likewise, aren't as good as men in networking in a male-dominated industry."

    So opposite from the truth, it's hilarious.

  • ideating's picture

    To be clear, I'm talking about the idea that white males in a male-dominated industry would prefer to talk to more males rather than females.

  • jimz's picture

    This whole thread is stupid.

    After the departure of Morgan Sze, Ashok Varadhan is the highest paid trader at Goldman. He is Indian.

  • In reply to ideating
    guerrillagrrl's picture

    ideating:
    " Likewise, females at top schools have higher average SATs/GPAs (though less quantitative coursework), but also likewise, aren't as good as men in networking in a male-dominated industry."

    So opposite from the truth, it's hilarious.

    I was just gonna ask.

    Why are women bad at networking but great at socializing?

  • In reply to Seigniorage
    NewYork1's picture

    Seigniorage:
    Trading is a meritocracy. Impose diversity on IBD.

    this is a loaded statement. e.g. females and minorities have inferior talent for S&T.
    Think about it this way: what does it take to get into Goldman S&T? (notice I said "get in"). Well, usually it takes a good school, high GPA, and networking ability. Asians work hard and get the good school/GPA bit but perhaps lack on the social graces for networking. Likewise, females at top schools have higher average SATs/GPAs (though less quantitative coursework), but also likewise, aren't as good as men in networking in a male-dominated industry.
    So it comes down to white men networking with white men. Asians/Females can blame themselves for not being able to schmooze with said white men, or they can work on it. Or (asians) can go to Asian divisions of BBs or (females) can pick another career.

    RIDICULOUS STATEMENT OF AN IGNORANT WHITE MAN....Obviously made by a white man...no surprise here...Your ignorant generalization of all women and minorities makes me chuckle as it is nothing more than the babbling of a child seeking to hold onto his toy when it is bed time.

    "2,500 Female Stock Brokers Settle Gender Discrimination Case For $33 Million"
    http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/06/citigroup-women-d...

    FIRST, it is impossible that your statement is true. If it was true then every women and minority would be a failure as a stock trader. You are clearly unaware of the women stockbrokers known as the "Queens of Quill" whose earnings bankrolled a presidential run and a newspaper business back in 1870: http://feministgeek.com/teaching-learning/woodhull/ . I love it when ignorant white guys make these types of comments, it opens the door for me to shoot them down on a public platform and show the World that they are NOT as smart as they think they are. And that their superiority beliefs are nothing more than an illusion supported by their discriminatory practices and backed by their violent tendencies when things do not go their way. e.g. mass murders, serial killings, suicide, population domination, etc....they tend to get angry when I do this...but I love it....why not. They ask for it by opening their door of ignorance in public and it helps me teach my kids and family how stupid some of these white guys are. Which gives my kids and family more psychological power over these white guys and moves them towards success (BTW, I am not black nor white or female).

    SECOND, men are more likely to sell stocks at the bottom of the market than women due to their incontrollable fear of losing control and power as per a study conducted on I.R.A. account activity in 2008-2009 at Vanguard. Meaning, women had more control over their fears then white men, which is a good trait for sales. Especially in the stock market.

    THIRD, The truth is that white men are truly weak. What makes them weak is their illusory belief of their own intellectual superiority in society and their endless efforts to hold on to that belief and power. When things do not go their way, which contradicts their belief of their intellectual superiority and threatens their power in society, they resort to unspeakable acts of destruction. e.g. mass murders, serial killing, suicide, population domination, and back in the slave days they raped black women repeatedly giving them a mental high (which also created a lighter race of black people they kept in the house), etc. And they tend to go to far lengths to hold onto their beliefs of their intellectual superiority when, in fact, they are NOT intellectually superior than other races:http://www.newsweek.com/2008/01/22/he-s-not-as-sma....

    CONCLUSION

    To any intelligent individual disseminating an opinion to the OP's question that is based on a more objective and truthful view, such an individual would most likely agree that white men, i.e. Goldman Sachs, have dominated the industry with a discriminatory philosophy against anyone who is NOT male and white. And thus, the so called inability to network is created by white men based on their discriminatory practices in keeping other races and genders off the trading floor. No matter how many times these white men attempt to irrationally justify their clear and obvious discriminatory practices, they are only fooling a monkey with half a brain.

    What is truly happening here is discrimination by the white men at Goldman Sachs...plain and simple.

    "Goldman Sachs Sued for Sex Discrimination...
    Three former Goldman Sachs employees filed a gender bias lawsuit against the firm today, lamenting an outdated corporate culture" run by, and catering to, men."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/15/goldman-s...

    GOOD NEWS

    The good news is that the white man's control over the market is coming to an end. Especially with the emerging international markets, computer trading integration, the abundance of women and minorities entering the market and people having enough of these discriminatory practices. Even the white man's women are attacking them by filing an unprecedented amount of successful lawsuits based on claims of discrimination...GOOD FOR THE WOMEN....MORE POWER TO THEM AND THANKS FOR THE HELP....I say thank God to that and good ridden to those white men who discriminate. We had enough of their nonsense.

  • Weazel3's picture

    what the hell just happned?

    It is what it is

  • In reply to NewYork1
    quag_mire's picture

    NewYork1:
    Seigniorage:
    Trading is a meritocracy. Impose diversity on IBD.

    this is a loaded statement. e.g. females and minorities have inferior talent for S&T.
    Think about it this way: what does it take to get into Goldman S&T? (notice I said "get in"). Well, usually it takes a good school, high GPA, and networking ability. Asians work hard and get the good school/GPA bit but perhaps lack on the social graces for networking. Likewise, females at top schools have higher average SATs/GPAs (though less quantitative coursework), but also likewise, aren't as good as men in networking in a male-dominated industry.
    So it comes down to white men networking with white men. Asians/Females can blame themselves for not being able to schmooze with said white men, or they can work on it. Or (asians) can go to Asian divisions of BBs or (females) can pick another career.

    RIDICULOUS STATEMENT OF AN IGNORANT WHITE MAN....Obviously made by a white man...no surprise here...Your ignorant generalization of all women and minorities makes me chuckle as it is nothing more than the babbling of a child seeking to hold onto his toy when it is bed time.

    "2,500 Female Stock Brokers Settle Gender Discrimination Case For $33 Million"
    http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/06/citigroup-women-d...

    FIRST, it is impossible that your statement is true. If it was true then every women and minority would be a failure as a stock trader. You are clearly unaware of the women stockbrokers known as the "Queens of Quill" whose earnings bankrolled a presidential run and a newspaper business back in 1870: http://feministgeek.com/teaching-learning/woodhull/ . I love it when ignorant white guys make these types of comments, it opens the door for me to shoot them down on a public platform and show the World that they are NOT as smart as they think they are. And that their superiority beliefs are nothing more than an illusion supported by their discriminatory practices and backed by their violent tendencies when things do not go their way. e.g. mass murders, serial killings, suicide, population domination, etc....they tend to get angry when I do this...but I love it....why not. They ask for it by opening their door of ignorance in public and it helps me teach my kids and family how stupid some of these white guys are. Which gives my kids and family more psychological power over these white guys and moves them towards success (BTW, I am not black nor white or female).

    SECOND, men are more likely to sell stocks at the bottom of the market than women due to their incontrollable fear of losing control and power as per a study conducted on I.R.A. account activity in 2008-2009 at Vanguard. Meaning, women had more control over their fears then white men, which is a good trait for sales. Especially in the stock market.

    THIRD, The truth is that white men are truly weak. What makes them weak is their illusory belief of their own intellectual superiority in society and their endless efforts to hold on to that belief and power. When things do not go their way, which contradicts their belief of their intellectual superiority and threatens their power in society, they resort to unspeakable acts of destruction. e.g. mass murders, serial killing, suicide, population domination, and back in the slave days they raped black women repeatedly giving them a mental high (which also created a lighter race of black people they kept in the house), etc. And they tend to go to far lengths to hold onto their beliefs of their intellectual superiority when, in fact, they are NOT intellectually superior than other races:http://www.newsweek.com/2008/01/22/he-s-not-as-sma....

    CONCLUSION

    To any intelligent individual disseminating an opinion to the OP's question that is based on a more objective and truthful view, such an individual would most likely agree that white men, i.e. Goldman Sachs, have dominated the industry with a discriminatory philosophy against anyone who is NOT male and white. And thus, the so called inability to network is created by white men based on their discriminatory practices in keeping other races and genders off the trading floor. No matter how many times these white men attempt to irrationally justify their clear and obvious discriminatory practices, they are only fooling a monkey with half a brain.

    What is truly happening here is discrimination by the white men at Goldman Sachs...plain and simple.

    "Goldman Sachs Sued for Sex Discrimination...
    Three former Goldman Sachs employees filed a gender bias lawsuit against the firm today, lamenting an outdated corporate culture" run by, and catering to, men."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/15/goldman-s...

    GOOD NEWS

    The good news is that the white man's control over the market is coming to an end. Especially with the emerging international markets, computer trading integration, the abundance of women and minorities entering the market and people having enough of these discriminatory practices. Even the white man's women are attacking them by filing an unprecedented amount of successful lawsuits based on claims of discrimination...GOOD FOR THE WOMEN....MORE POWER TO THEM AND THANKS FOR THE HELP....I say thank God to that and good ridden to those white men who discriminate. We had enough of their nonsense.

    LMFAO...troll?

  • txjustin's picture
  • WGCC's picture

    Nothing to add, but I am really surprised by the long, overly "well-written" response for a topic like this?

  • In reply to WGCC
    rufiolove's picture

    WGCC:
    Nothing to add, but I am really surprised by the long, overly "well-written" response for a topic like this?

    If by "well-written" you mean rife with grammatical error and flawed logic, then yes. The funny thing is that no one else was really serious on this thread, and even though it is an old one, seeing it pop up on the recent activity page allowed me to read the response and it was pretty ridiculous.

  • In reply to Midas Mulligan Magoo
    GoodBread's picture

    Midas Mulligan Magoo:
    Goldman proposes new non-profit: LINNA
    Liberal
    Idiots
    Need
    Not
    Apply

    I think its more of an idiots need not apply thing. Donors from Goldman gave 4 times more to Obama than McCain.

    As far as the broader topic goes, interest probably plays a big part. There are way more white dudes interested in trading than there are girls.

  • In reply to LLcoolJ
    futuretrader1999's picture

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  • ah's picture

    I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.