Why MBB over 2nd Tier?

I spent time with MBB and 2nd tier consulting firms recently, and I am now rethinking my MBB goal. This is not a slam against MBB. I appreciate the value of those great brands on a resume.

1. Every MBB office that I've been to has a "we are all best friends" environment. I'm concerned this comes from lower-level consultants having few outside relationships and activities.

2. 2nd tier strategy practices are smaller and growing faster than MBB. Combine a smaller, growing practice with greater variance in talent, and I see greater potential for a high quality person with drive to stand out in a 2nd tier vs MBB.

3. After dozens of hours with MBB consultants, I still don't get it. How does MBB add as much value as a 2nd tier firm that is also responsible for implementation and results? I know it's not as simple as that, but I look at ever-increasing global business efficiency and competition, and all I can see is MBB market share migrating to 2nd tier.

Am I missing something? If I take a 2nd tier offer, will I look back in a few years and regret this? I am not presuming MBB would even have me, and I don't intend to denigrate any of the consulting firms or people.

Some genuine feedback on these thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

Definitely agree with the 'we are best friends'-culture being a red flag for me as well. Especially McKinsey has given me the impression that it basically takes over your life.

At the end of the day, I think there is one main thing you need to consider in this case. Could you see yourself being a career consultant? If yes, definitely choose the team you have the best rapport with - MBB or not. You'll be much happier by doing so. If not, I think you'd be wise to try and get an MBB offer and take it from there. A stint at MBB opens up more doors than 2nd tiers do, even if the job you do will largely be the same.

 

Former MBB, so a bit biased here, but will respond anyway.

1) There's definitely some of that, for sure. But I know this can also be true at tier 2 firms as well. Parthenon is a good example; I would say their Boston office (which was roughly the size of my MBB office) had more of this going on than my office. 2) Some 2nd tier firms are getting hammered, which is why they're getting acquired by Tier 3 firms / other tier 2 firms. 3) MBB can and will implement too, but for a client to have sustainable results, they need to own the project at some point. If you think that MBB aren't on the hook for results, you misunderstand how the consulting relationship works. If I'm a senior client and I hire a consulting firm, and at the end of the project, I'm not set up in a way that helps me be as successful as possible at realizing the aim of the project, I'm unlikely to hire that partner/firm again. Long relationships are fairly common in consulting, especially at the MBB level, precisely because the results are almost always there.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points
 

3 on this is very true. Interned in a corp strat/project management role with a company that had an MBB on board. My team was heavily involved with what the consultants were doing (which I found to be an awesome experience). The MBB was very much involved with implementation. Yes, they are hired to provide strategic insight. But implementation racks up those billable hours, and much of my company needed assistance with implementation.

After talking with friends from all over the consulting landscape, something I'm really gathering is that hiring a pure strategy firm, and then hiring a separate firm for implementation is becoming less efficient (read: more costly -> less profitable) from a client perspective. Therefore, many of the firms at every tier are really doing a blend of both at this point, which usually better serves the client.

Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you are the sucker.
 

Much thanks for the thoughtful responses so far. Sanchize, I'm not interested in PE, so my exit would be to corporate strategy or a startup. My initial thought was that a standout 2nd tier consultant would place similar to a middle-of-the-road MBB. Is that realistic? Peter, really appreciate the explanation. Ownership makes sense. I still don't like the idea of a constant low bidder fueled by a larger, profitable company working on your business over time. MBB delivers consistency in the quality of their consultants as exceptional communicators, and that is worth a premium.

 

You have some very valid points, and many have a myopic view when evaluating consulting firms.

I think you make a great point with #2. Big 4 advisory/consulting is expanding fast, and as others have said, are filling in the huge area that implementation work has become. They also have the ability to leverage the power their technology consulting arms, and MBB simply doesn’t have the resources to compete in that sphere. If one is sure that consulting won’t be for them and want to exit to a corporate or finance role by their early 30s (so a few years after an MBA), then MBB might be best for them. But if one truly enjoys consulting, then being a superstar in a fast-growing tier 2 consulting firm gives them a much better chance at making principal/partner.

 

I can't help but feel you are conflating two entirely different issues here. The first being why any company might choose MBB. The second being why any individual might choose MBB. These really are two separate issues. In order:

"1" is just about as true as any firm that operates in small teams over long hours, whether it be banking or consulting.

"2" is just plainly false. Over the past decade, MBB (really moreso McKinsey and BCG) have vastly outpaced most of the tier 2 firms in growth. The T2 firms, for the most part, are just getting wrecked.

"3" is an interesting question. Part of the answer might be that "MBB" charges a lot more than the T2 firms - it thus makes sense to use them to do the more creative strategy work, and the cheaper firms to do the heavy lifting.

In any case, none of these three points comprehensively discusses the question at hand. To answer why a firm might pick MBB - for one, it's a self perpetuating cycle. Firms will pick MBB because they have the best talent. The best talent will head to MBB because of the best exits. And over time, MBB will build the strongest relationships. Why should any individual pick MBB? Your point about being going to a 2nd tier due to higher variance is just silly - it's like suggesting you should take Northwestern over Harvard.

 

Sav, you are correct that I'm asking two different questions. I'd like to work in a healthy, growing firm. The health of the overall firm is going to affect the work environment to a great extent. 1) Correct. The tier 2 consultants at my target offices have made it clear it's not common to work weekends, and I tend to believe them based on visiting the offices and verifying with my peers who've worked there in the past. 2) I should clarify, by tier 2 I mean a large diversified firm such as Deloitte or Accenture. This being WSO, I'm not going to get any love for saying this, but the consultant who is cleaning up at Deloitte or Accenture is going to have much better exit options than the guy who is struggling at MBB. I just know that to be true knowing how people work. Prestige is awesome, but personally thriving>>>prestigious brand. Thanks for sharing your insight and giving me some great information to think through!

 

Disagreed with #2. As hobonumber mentioned, exit options even for struggling MBB consultants are very very good. I know of people at the bottom of each class who easily transitioned into strategy roles at top F500/other blue chip companies in their top groups/divisions. MBB brand and, more importantly in my opinion, alumni connections can get you very far.

 
Best Response
Dr. Spaceman:
1) Correct. The tier 2 consultants at my target offices have made it clear it's not common to work weekends, and I tend to believe them based on visiting the offices and verifying with my peers who've worked there in the past.
It's fairly unusual to work weekends at MBB as well, unless you're the kind of person who would rather quit early on a Friday and put in a few hours on a Saturday instead. I can count the number of times I was actually expected (rather than chose) to work over the weekend on one hand, and I've been doing this a few years now.
This being WSO, I'm not going to get any love for saying this, but the consultant who is cleaning up at Deloitte or Accenture is going to have much better exit options than the guy who is struggling at MBB. I just know that to be true

I'm glad that you "just know that to be true." You are absolutely, utterly 100% wrong but don't let that stop you.

The thing you are missing is that there really isn't a lot of visibility from outside as to how a person is performing. It's often not even clear if an individual chose to leave or was fired. It's not like your reviews are going to be shown to your prospective next employer. When you're hiring someone, you're not going to know which guy was "cleaning up at Deloitte" and which one was "struggling at MBB"--all you'll know for sure is who worked where.

 

Currently work at an MBB and very active in recruiting, having interned at a tier 2 firm, and would like to offer a few thoughts (probably biased).

1) Personally really enjoy the company of people at work, more so than I did at my internship. I think this comes from the recruiting process, where whether on purpose or not, we have more latitude in choosing people we think will get along together well. Have spent weekends/week-long trips with people from my class and their SOs, and can't wait to hang out w/ them again.

2) I think there is a reason we almost never see anyone take another offer from a tier 2 firm in recruiting. Our only worry in recruiting is other MBB's, the top banks/PE firms, and a few not tech companies (think tesla/uber/spacex, not google/fb/ms). Exit opportunities even if you are struggling is great. We realize the work/lifestyle isn't cut out for everyone. That's why a lot of emphasis is put into transition. A few month full pay when you decide to leave/get counselled out, help with job search. Through the grapevine, people we were not performing well and left ended up at places like FB, Google, other corporate strategy divisions. Which isn't a bad exit considering low performance, I'd say prestige gets you pretty far.

At the lower level, where you pick to work matters a more. There is less variability risk at an MBB on the caliber of the team you work with, how good the partner is. What that means for you, less stress. At the higher up level, no one cares if you are a partner as Deloitte, or a partner at McKinsey.

 

Thanks hobo and pnb. I would not have guessed. Just the same, it seems an individual on a downward trajectory who trusts their fate to a partner who probably despises them and lands at fb, google, etc, is hardly in a good or safe place. Still, valuable information I was completely ignorant to.

 
Dr. Spaceman:

Thanks hobo and pnb. I would not have guessed. Just the same, it seems an individual on a downward trajectory who trusts their fate to a partner who probably despises them and lands at fb, google, etc, is hardly in a good or safe place. Still, valuable information I was completely ignorant to.

You also have the wrong impression on how challenging things are. ie: A student struggling at Harvard isn't going to be a star at Northwestern. The prestige benefits at MBB almost always offsets the potentially more challenging environment (as a result of having stronger peers) the vast majority of the time.
 

I beg to differ a bit on that point. The intimate nature of the MBB offices seemingly would accelerate any success or failure, The 2nd tier firms appear to have this attitude "it is what you make it" where you can choose to excel or be as chill as you want to about the job.
Keep in mind that I know little about consulting--these are simply impressions.

 

A few thoughts: 1) We are not all best friends. I like my colleagues, and ultimately I have to have likeable people to work with, because I travel and spend 3-4 days a week with them. This also means that if I'm working with people I like, I do actually become friends with them. It's not because I have nothing else going in life. 2) One of the best parts of my job is the ability to learn from people who, quite frankly, I look at and am wondering why I got hired. This both pushes me and challenges me. So I'd much rather be in the middle of the pack here than a rock star somewhere else. 3) I will offer two points here: -- Almost all of the projects I have worked on have been those that will have a huge bearing on a company or business unit's future. Our main clients are all C level or 1-2 steps removed from C level in large companies. I don't think most tier 2's will offer you the same consistency of that kind of exposure. The fact is, MBB rates are high enough that it takes a "high level" project sponsor to do one. -- Whenever I have been involved in competitive proposals, I have NEVER seen us up against a tier 2 firm. It is always against one or both of the other two MBB's. We just don't compete for the same work. There are many situations in which tier 2's are not even "in the room".

This is not a knock on tier 2's. However, I'm simply sharing a few bits from my experiences on why I think there actually still is a difference.

 

Earum iure maxime quia quos consequuntur beatae ipsam. Quasi excepturi sint dicta quia eius. Eveniet repellendus quaerat natus facere. Voluptas dolores et veritatis. A enim id et nam. Cumque quia eum praesentium est qui sint.

Vel tempore porro voluptatum necessitatibus numquam. Suscipit nihil quia qui modi quia praesentium. Sunt repellat id veniam ut quas ratione quo.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Consulting

  • Bain & Company 99.4%
  • McKinsey and Co 98.9%
  • Boston Consulting Group (BCG) 98.3%
  • Oliver Wyman 97.7%
  • LEK Consulting 97.2%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Consulting

  • Bain & Company 99.4%
  • Cornerstone Research 98.9%
  • Boston Consulting Group (BCG) 98.3%
  • McKinsey and Co 97.7%
  • Oliver Wyman 97.2%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Consulting

  • Bain & Company 99.4%
  • McKinsey and Co 98.9%
  • Boston Consulting Group (BCG) 98.3%
  • Oliver Wyman 97.7%
  • LEK Consulting 97.2%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Consulting

  • Partner (4) $368
  • Principal (25) $277
  • Director/MD (55) $270
  • Vice President (47) $246
  • Engagement Manager (99) $225
  • Manager (152) $170
  • 2nd Year Associate (158) $140
  • 3rd+ Year Associate (108) $130
  • Senior Consultant (329) $130
  • Consultant (586) $119
  • 1st Year Associate (538) $119
  • NA (15) $119
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (145) $115
  • Engineer (6) $114
  • 2nd Year Analyst (342) $102
  • Associate Consultant (166) $98
  • 1st Year Analyst (1046) $87
  • Intern/Summer Associate (188) $84
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (547) $67
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”