Why the hell do people work in NYC/SF IBD?

I am not sure why you are ranting as such, but I think you need to go get some help...

"Success is doing what you want to do, when you want, where you want, with whom you want, as much as you want."-Robbins

Live and let live. I understand you are trying to wrap your head around this, but there are so many reasons to counter what you said that I'm not even gonna start.

Wrong place for the rant, bud.

You're quoting the salary of an entry level analyst, which is typically a 2 year stint. They leave with a prestigious former employer to put on their CV, a solid professional network, quite a bit of money in the bank (as you aptly pointed out, they don't have time to spend it), highly trained and long working hours no longer phase them. It gets more attention than it probably should on this site but there's a reason it does. Very few entry level roles provide that much opportunity.

You also made a good point, which is that taking that work ethic to another employer would put you on the fast track. There was a paper measuring the outcome of people who attended top universities and people who got in but turned them down (or had the same profile to get in) and over time both groups were essentially just as successful as the other. The same can probably be said for those who get into investment banking and those just as capable of getting there...but I'd still take Stanford and starting at Goldman for the leg up it provides.

xgozax:

100 hour weeks working at a BB making 150k (high end). 50% of income goes to Taxes, 30-40% is rent, 10% is food and 0-10% is savings.

This. In the end what really matters is what you saves (and the returns from the investments you make with your savings). Everything else is subjective. Still, you seem to give too little importance from the experience of working in these cities and the "prestige" people give to it.

PRESTIGE NEGRO

I'm 24 with 150k saved and will have close to 500k saved by the time I'm 28 if I stay in IBD... So don't know where your 50k is coming from.

Give us the alternative O' almighty benevolent savior

xgozax:

It makes absolutely no sense to me. I've heard a lot of people try to defend it, but it's simply indefensible.

It's almost like people have different opinions, priorities, interests, etc...

Let me tell you a story.

In my first job (a failing family biz doing translations for personal documents and those little instruction leaflets for chinese crap), there was this girl who had a salary of BRL 1,200 (around USD400) like the rest of us. She was always telling how she had massive debt problems. How she would get into fights at home to get loans from parents and relatives (not to pay down debt, but to go to shows and buy booze). She was not a totally incompetent worker, however, and even got invited to work at other larger companies where she could, in theory, make more money and improve her quality of life a little bit.

She never bothered, though.

When asked why, she would shrug and say "well, I'm satisfied. I live with my boyfriend, I don't earn enough to pay income tax and I can drink and go to shows. Why would I waste my time with something more demanding?"

Stupid, right? Well, in her opinion it was a good deal. She saw advantages in that life style.

People who decide to go into ÏBD in NY/SF" made that choice too - It's a good deal for them. Maybe some will see along the way that this is not for them. Others will enjoy and go on ( I won't even go into things like compensation, prestige etc). It's what they like to do. Why do people become lawyers in those big-name firms? Why do people become doctors? They also work like dogs and many die, as you classified, as "followers".

I bet they enjoyed what they did, though. This is what matters IMO.

Don't feed the commmunity college troll guys

No one would do this job if you worked 100 hours a week for 150k your entire life. By the time you're a VP, you're working 60 hours a week and making $400-$600k...and that's if you stay in banking...many go to even more lucrative (and similar or better hour) jobs on the buyside.

Because they're hoping to make it big later. Same reason people work for free singing songs in LA bars, hoping somebody will notice them and they get a record deal.

As if life is all about being 28 with half a mill in the bank.

People live and work in NYC because it's fucking amazing. If you like sitting at home and are married at 22, sure, NYC is gonna suck. If you're young, enjoy going out and meeting people, you'll find a lot missing outside of major cities.

I'll just summon aspiringchimp here to continue from the previous thread. As they say in Mortal Kombat, FINISH HIM!!

I would unload all the wso credits I have, to throw MS into this community college trashcan, were it not for the MS limits. Fucking hoity-toity PE peasant in Fucksville.

even though you're obviously a kid looking through a very narrow lens, you're making the right points.

it's a very hard trade. i went to Goldman Sachs because it was the absolute best job i could get out of school, and it set me up for the rest of my life.

if you think PE is exit opportunities you're missing the point: when you have these skills and experience, you can walk into any job in business, years ahead of where you might starting straight out of school.

i also wanted to start in a job that would best prepare me for any role in business, and I still believe IB is that.

But, if you're looking for some get rich quick. or you think that it inevitably leads you to your yacht and 6 homes you/re just as delusional as this kid who hasn't figured out that life is about relative trades.

you may think ib is a bad trade, so why not go get a "regular" job where you can just work away in boring mundanity for hte next 40 years?

or you could figure out what you truly love and just do it every day, and stop wasting our time whining about what jobs you think suck

Some people will be happy picking grapes in a field for low pay for the rest of their lives. Some people just like to make a fuck load of money, live in an incredible city and experience all that life has to offer.

Chill out fam

Do you even bank bro? I bet you're one of those kids that cannot get into IBD so all you do is rant about how bad it is after you get a job as a branch manager in god knows where Utah

I think despite the negative feedback you are getting on this thread (mostly from people who never seemed to actually have worked in the industry) I will say you are touching on exactly the right points (I know as I did my analyst stint, so college kids can stfup on here).

You absolutely slave away like a bitch for very long hours and a shit lifestyle. A lot of people gunning for these spots will rationalize the shitty lifestyle no matter what. But if you are smart then there is a high opportunity cost to slaving for some MD who dgaf about you, and you should absolutely question whether the payoff is worth it.

base salary. people work for the bonuses

Good reason to live in NYC Manhattan:

SF is trash though.

NYC is the best place for an active life in your early 20s in my opinion. No car needed to hit up 20 different spots in a day or night, surplus of women, no identity requirements because everyone is vastly different with diverse backgrounds, great and unique places to explore all the time, international dining, late hours, close and intimate proximity with everything needed, 24 hour accessible transportation, plenty of people sharing your similar place in life no matter what it is, etc.

Having money in your pocket to access it when you can and want is great. If you know where to look, you can find housing solutions for less than $1k a month, or if you have the money you can live in the bustling inner city for more. It's a great place to spend what free time you have in the ways that best suit your own lifestyle preferences. Small towns come with much more simplicity but also a lot less tailoring to certain and specific interests.

I saved 60K in my first year in IBD in NYC, and I sure as hell didn't work 100 hours a week on average.

I think this point has been hit on a couple times here but it is all about perspective, and perspective is different for everyone.

When I was a junior in college I interned in a BO role for a large insurance company and was given a spiffy "Business Analyst" title. One day my manager asked me to job shadow another analyst (who was actually a 60 year old guy who had essentially been doing the same task for 20 years). I sat down at his desk and essentially he pressed a button on Microsoft Access and a report would compile for about an hour while we just sat there. That was more of less the extent of the job. For him he was close to retirement, left at 4pm every day, and lived in a low cost area. But for me I realized I could never do a job like that and in fact it honestly feels like some of the 15 hour days in IB go by faster than the 7 hour ones during that internship.

Regarding NY, it's not for everyone, it is for me though. It was always my dream to live there after growing up in a rural town of 6K people and finally go the opportunity to do so after undergrad. After a year I moved to Chicago to chase the IB dream and after 3 years elected to move back to NYC. I've mentioned it in another thread but the cost of living would make anyone question the decision (3x rent I paid in Chi, 15K more in taxes alone, etc.). That said there is no other city like NYC. The variety of people, opportunities, etc. is unmatched in an city - you get a little taste of it in Chicago but it's not the same. There's just something about the trash in the streets, the hustle, and the diversity of people that makes it amazing. Again it's not for everyone, I realized it was for me.

"Title: Intern"

/thread

Ok, anyone care to explain the skewed sex ratio in NYC?

I will give my opinion -

I agree with, what I believe to be, your underlying statement. That is, IBD is not "the only/best career path". There are a plethora of alternative career paths that can similarly lead to being wealthy, if that is your ultimate goal. That being said, you are being naive if you think IBD is not one of the top career paths in finance. From a financial perspective you are correct, first year analysts traditionally do not have that much money at the end of the year. However they begin to save significantly more and more each year quickly surpassing any low cost of living high entry level salary position. It also provides phenomenal exit opportunities from B-school to other careers. I did not go the IBD route, but by % I am in the top 3% for people in my age group.

A few other small notes, by 28 anyone who was IBD 2 years -> B School -> IBD 2 Years, would have way more than 50K saved up. Also your breakout of the income is inaccurate.

You should choose the career path that provides you with what you want from a salary and work/life perspective. Don't hate on people who decide to go into IBD, there are more than a handful of reasons why IBD is an excellent choice in career.

I agree if you have the talent to start the next facebook, google etc why in the world would you do such a thing. Not everyone has that kind of talent though so slogging away in IBD doing a lot of mundane tasks is what a lot of people will need to do to become wealthy fairly young if they save etc.

.

Disclaimer: I do work in IB but not in NYC / SF. In a small southern city (

IB -> PE, IB -> HF, IB -> MD

First year at Apollo is $400k, first year at Bain is $375k. Very worth two years in IB.

40% of 150k for rent? That's around 5k / month, seems a bit steep don't you think? I don't know many IB analysts in NYC (even at top BBs) that pay more than 2k per month. Assuming 24k annual rent expense that's around 15% of the income, not 40%... lol (meaning that based on your numbers, that's already an uptick of 25% in savings all things equal, which is close to 40k / year).

I think Sil said it best: "I am sorry that your most recent interview did not go well."

To each their own I guess. Do you, but don't let jealousy fuel your emotions against a position you seem to want to be in just because you might have not gotten it. Get back out there and remember, there are always opportunities beyond IB to make good coin.

50% income taxes? As a 24 year NY resident that's news to me...

1. 100 hours / week (high end likely 70-80 week on average - likely working those hours for 2-3 years)

2. 150k high end (? - you mention a band of 6 years - high end for that band would be 180 - 500+ / yr)

3. 50% income to taxes (just, no); 30-40% to rent ($2-$2.5k/mo is less than 30% rule of thumb even if you're mid buck first year taking home $125); 0-10% savings (you should save your bonus - for a nation where the avg. national HH income is ~$55k, you're killing it)

4. $50k of savings at 28 (not a great situation - either have a spending issue, as you're eluding to, or assuming you graduated with significant student debt you've saved yourself decades of interest, secured yourself a 6-8% return on paying off that debt earlier, and have set yourself up for an explosive 3rd decade)

5. Sold six years of your life and have nothing to show for it (...other than a massively inflated earnings potential, a financial and legal education that allows you to run circles around people years older than you, a flexibility to pivot in just about any direction from a career perspective, an ability to intelligently invest your money so that when you inevitably build up that golden nest egg in the next 10-15 years you can successfully invest it in private/public investments that yield you a return such that you can reliably count on future cash flows to supplement or fund your lifestyle with a higher degree of confidence than your counterparts who sold tech software and did marketing for an F1000, set yourself up for a career where you can reasonably expect to be able to afford supporting a family where you can vacation internationally 1-2 times / year, go on ski vacation and send the kids to private school without having to take out a second mortgage on your house)

Maybe if you majored in computer science and economics, have been a serial entrepreneur since you were 12, have a trust fund to access and fund your current aspirations and a family business to fall back on, then you can argue that its a waste of time and you'd be wildly successful doing something else with your life for 6 years, but the 20-somethings forging ahead in tech or other endeavors aren't working 40 hours a week, taking rogue Mondays off and chilling with 350k in their bank by 28. They're busting their balls just as hard, if not harder, than the kids slugging it through the lower rungs of IBD.

Success rewards skill and there are few better places to curate such a versatile, applicable and sought-after skill set than in IBD.

Good luck though. For some people, money and the things it lets you afford don't matter much.

P.S. forgot to mention the future value of forming relationships with the leagues of incredibly intelligent, ambitions people you'll be meeting along the way

someone didnt get a bid.

They have nothing to show for it except money they may have saved. But at that time many are married and half their net worth goes to the woman/man.