Enrolled in MSF program, hoping to land IB analyst position, no banking experience

I planned on going to law school for the majority of my undergraduate years. Just as I began to build up a reasonable resume for a law app, I jumped ship and moved towards finance (IB, hedge, and PE caught my interest in particular). Thankfully, my resume/academics got me into a solid MSF program that should give us good opportunity to network with regional IB employers. However, I'm still a little concerned that I'll be at a disadvantage without any tangible banking experience. Because of this, I'm beginning to search for something to fill the void before recruiting gets in full swing.

SO my main question is this - in what context could I gain banking experience during the school year that would make me more marketable to IB employers for recruiting? I would need it to coordinate with school, so it would need to be flexible and part-time (I could manage 20hrs). is this possible? Could I do some sort of informal internship with a boutique, or should I just ride it out until recruiting?

disclaimer - I'm incredibly impatient, riding it out will kill me.

 

Honestly... you are disadvantaged but depending on the program you still have a shot, albeit not at the BB firms, probs more MM. Look for a boutique bank around school that will bring you on over the summer prior to the program starting or during the fall. If you can't have it on your resume going into fall recruiting you are kinda sunk

 

@"l8totheparty" Try and get some type of a local finance internship, but if that fails just get involved with groups on campus. OCR is largely dependent on GPA and how you present your resume. I know plenty of people with zero IB internship experience that have received offers at banks. You just need to be strong academically.

Also, don't discount any law background/experience you have. You don't know how much of finance involves legal knowledge, especially buyside. This is definitely a strength for your profile.

 
BleedingBlue:

By GPA, do you mean that first quarter/semester of MSF GPA he'll have by the time FT recruiting unfolds or does undergrad GPA still count a lot?

For MSF recruiting the GPA you have when you apply to jobs is important, but I think overall GPA is helpful for when or if you want to do an MBA later.

 

An MSF will give you another shot at recruiting, but without relevant experience and a significant amount of networking, your chance of breaking into IB will be zero. If you have been unable to land interview with your target school's network, you might want to consider a non-IB role for a few years and then go for an MBA. Your network would increase with an MSF, but chances are, you will not get access to any new banks since you already went to a target.

Just my two cents. Good luck.

 
Sil:

An MSF will give you another shot at recruiting, but without relevant experience and a significant amount of networking, your chance of breaking into IB will be zero. If you have been unable to land interview with your target school's network, you might want to consider a non-IB role for a few years and then go for an MBA. Your network would increase with an MSF, but chances are, you will not get access to any new banks since you already went to a target.

Just my two cents. Good luck.

I have IBD experience but at no-name firms. People who refer me say its strong enough for internship positions, hence refer me, but those referrals don't convert to interviews and I'm not sure why (and neither are they when I go back to them). I really don't want to wait 3+ years to break in though after putting in this much time/effort! :(

The non-IB roles I have been applying for are Big4/consulting. I'm currently looking out for other roles in the UK.

NB we don't have OCR in the UK. We apply online and hope to be selected. I was told referrals help.

 
Best Response
cujo.cabbie:
Sil:

An MSF will give you another shot at recruiting, but without relevant experience and a significant amount of networking, your chance of breaking into IB will be zero. If you have been unable to land interview with your target school's network, you might want to consider a non-IB role for a few years and then go for an MBA. Your network would increase with an MSF, but chances are, you will not get access to any new banks since you already went to a target.

Just my two cents. Good luck.

I have IBD experience but at no-name firms. People who refer me say its strong enough for internship positions, hence refer me, but those referrals don't convert to interviews and I'm not sure why (and neither are they when I go back to them).
The non-IB roles I have been applying for are Big4/consulting. I'm currently looking out for other roles in the UK.

NB we don't have OCR in the UK. We apply online and hope to be selected. I was told referrals help.

IB experience is IB experience. I just pointed that out because I constantly have MSFs reaching out to me and 99% of them have no IB experience. So, while I would love to pass their resumes on, I cannot because I already know that HR would dump it.

I am in the US, so I really cannot provide any more advice since you are in the UK. I know that LSE, LBS, Warwick, and Imperial get good recruiting, but that is all I have. Good luck, man.

 

If you are not gonna start till 2015 are intent on MSF, why not try and get an internship at one of the places you worked with before? You won't have a huge gap in work history and also possibility of a backup option at a semi-decent firm if you decide you don't wanna do MSF. The point already has been made in the thread that since you went to one of those target schools, you are unlikely to find new employers.

 
frattisimus101:

If you are not gonna start till 2015 are intent on MSF, why not try and get an internship at one of the places you worked with before? You won't have a huge gap in work history and also possibility of a backup option at a semi-decent firm if you decide you don't wanna do MSF. The point already has been made in the thread that since you went to one of those target schools, you are unlikely to find new employers.

They are not hiring otherwise I would have definitely gone back. This is why I've been trying to find an alternative internship or FT role. If I have not interviewed at the banks that typically hire from my undergrad uni do I have a shot vs someone who has interviewed with them and did not get an offer?

 
cujo.cabbie:

I graduated from a target and have been networking since trying to land interviews for internships, off-cycles or FT roles in IBD/consulting/Big4 but have remained unemployed for a year.

I am considering completing a MSF degree. I cannot start it until Sept 2015 and therefore graduate in 2016.

I'm unsure if it will help me break in as if I'm still unable to land a role for another year, there will be a 2 year unemployment gap on my CV, which will look terrible.

Given networking and referrals with my current background didn't help convert to interviews, I'm not sure what else I can do to break in/get a job, other than the MSF. My guess is I need more recent finance experience but thats what I'm struggling to get.

Any recommendations?

I disagree. If you've been unemployed for a year, doing an MSF program and crushing it (3.5 GPA or so) will actually give you a good shot. You will have to network on your own though, but you have a great chance to get into an analyst program somewhere. Now, I won't tell anyone to get more loans, but if you want to do IB... You may even be able to come in at an accelerated analyst level (skip 1 year of the analyst program). Banks are picking up hiring, and you can really get a spot somewhere (boutique, bulge, middle market, chicago, new york, houston, san fran, etc). All you need is one spot, and determination and grit go almost as far as an ivy league resume when it comes to analysts.

As a caveat: If your major from undergrad was finance and you got a great GPA, then I'd rethink getting the MSF and keep looking to break in somewhere b/c you're missing something else if you couldn't land an analyst gig in the first place.

 

Hey man. if you're a recent grad from a target, i wouldn't look to go into an MSF program unless you have really poor grades. I just gradated from an MSF program but came from a nontarget and nonmajor and was already a few years out with nonfinance experience. I recently broke into a ER role at a MM bank but also had numerous interviews with MM IBs (e.g., HL, EVR, PJ).

My advice is to review your resume (as stated above), continue to network (I did this for over 2 years) and make sure to follow up with the contacts, and continue to apply for jobs. A lot of times, breaking in as all timing...

 

@femzilla - I'm in the UK haha. I did network with a handful of USA people but was directed back to the UK. The reasoning was I could be assessed better here/better to network here etc. Should I still try for USA positions?

@wbd - the problem is I don't want to be permanently unemployed. I am bored stiff at the moment and want to do something constructive with my time hence I was thinking of doing the Masters. Not sure really.

@CorpFinHopeful - I did show it to many industry contacts beforehand and also sent it via PM to WSO contacts. Will upload it on the forum for more advice as soon as I hear back from the last few people.

@derpherpderp4760 - ok sounds good. I will keep networking, following up, and applying.

I have a general question. Is alternative industry experience (but semi-related work e.g. Excel, PowerPoint, data analysis, strategy etc) > MSF if I still am struggling to break into finance? Would people in finance be more willing to bat for me if I was at a brand name firm but not in corp finance or corp dev (which typically go to more experienced hires).

 

If you can get a job in another field that is of interest to you then obviously go ahead and take it, but if you're still set on IB, I would actually recommend doing a 2 year Master's program. You said you graduated from a target university and still didn't land anything so I would take the safer route, pick a 2 year Master's program, score an internship in b/w and then return as a FT analyst (hopefully you get that return offer). A 1 year MSc program might put you in the same position as you are now, since recruiting for FT positions in London is not as easy as many think given that a large junk of roles are filled with interns. 2 year programs enable you to recruit for internships which is fairly easy coming from a target with solid preparation.

Nonetheless, right now you should get a job asap, regardless of profession. If it's strategy at a large corp, nice, finance at SME, alright, business development at a start up, take it. I would even look at roles in the ME and Asia since these guys love UK university pedigree. You won't score a job at a BB in Coverage in Hong Kong or will be leading the next big restructuring in Dubai with your group, but maybe some small company needs a financial planning analyst or sales staff. I would even look at start ups to get something in Business Development, even if it's not the next facebook. Get a job asap, that employment gap really hurts your chances for future applications and strains your nerves (and presumably bank balance).

I'm no seasoned industry professional with year long experiences in the finance industry, so take my advice for what it's worth, but getting a job right now seems crucial to me. Good luck man.

 

As someone who went to a masters program with the IBD goal, I can say it's up to you. Going to a top program will reboot recruiting for you, but if you expect hand-holding then you might be SOL. I cannot begin to emphasize how important networking is. The WSO networking guide coupled with the advice most users provide is invaluable. Will it be possible to get BB IBD without banking experience coming out of an MSF? Probably not, but it never hurts to try. Remember that you not only have competition from your MSF brethren, but also from undergrads who have banking experience. You have to stand out, always in a good way. Networking and getting someone to throw your resume on HR's desk for you is a great way to be noticed.

"Come at me, bro"- José de Palafox y Melci
 

@BuyFix&Sell - 2 year programme is a great idea. The only problem is that I will have to wait a year, and then 2 further years to complete the Masters, and then I'm a first year analyst (and significantly older then the average analyst given I've already been unemployed for a year). I'm not sure this is the way to go (as alternatively I could just do any job for 1-2 years and do an MBA and would be in the 'same' position but just routing for Associate positions instead). The timing of all of this is rather tough.

@mrharveyspecter - thats what I thought also but its proven untrue. I had a no name IBD internship (they are not hiring) and then a F50 firm internship in my final year. They couldn't keep me on for headcount reasons otherwise my plan was to remain there while trying for other positions. Those 2 internships I did get were the only interviews I have ever received too so were taken out of desperation vs choice.

@lasampdoria - I have been networking a lot but am hitting dead ends with it. People are happy to refer me but I don't actually land interviews which just spoils the relationship as both sides are left confused. It can't always be bad luck I think and if networking hasn't been fruitful I wasn't sure adding a Masters on my CV would be (as I personally think networking > Masters).

 

If you are already unemployed, why don't you go back to one of the places you interned at and offer to work for free/next to nothing? You can keep networking, don't have a nasty unemployment record on your resume, and the firm gets cheap help. Everyone wins.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face."
 

is everybody posting here new to this guy? cujo.cabbie=charlesperry=hopesanddreams=etc.

dont feed the troll & dont waste your time guys

i hope this does not end up on the front page again and then gets removed because people start shitting on the guy

 

@RohanShinde - thanks for the link - very interesting.

@sevensevens - I offered this but they said they do not take free interns/are generally not hiring but will keep me posted if something crops up.

 

An MSF, if it's a good one at least, can definitely help you get into IBD depending on what you're targeting. If you're trying to get into BB IB then you're going to need solid experience and powerful interpersonal skills (which, if you had, you wouldn't really need an MSF). But every year there are a few MSF graduates, again from the top programs, that break into BB IB.

If you're expectations are more grounded in reality, on the other hand, then IB experience, or even relevant work experience for that matter, isn't required. I know a lot of people from my graduating class that got MM/boutique IB offers with no relevant experience whatsoever. A lot of us interned during the school year and are interning now with IBs.

You're fortunate in that the MSF program is really taking off and a lot of top schools are now offering it. The fact that you have to wait till 2015 may end up being a plus. Again, make sure that you get into a good program. By 2015 your choices should be: Ross, Dartmouth, Yale, USC, UT Austin, WUSTL, CMC, Vandy and Villanova.

“Elections are a futures market for stolen property”
 

@sevensevens - I used the 'unpaid' word yes. They said they do not offer such work experience.

@esuric - sure but why not just wait an additional year, go for an MBA, and try for associate positions? The timing of all of this is really screwed up IMO. As for breaking into BB IBD - are you sure few get in? I have seen (and know) quite a lot of people who broke in without 1) networking/attending company events 2) gaining prior IBD experience (and sometimes no experience at all) 3) top grades. These are for UK positions though.

 

Are you a UK student? I ask because if you are not then it will still be tough for you to get a job overseas even from those top schools.

An MSF can absolutely help many people, but it is not the answer to everything. I need to hear more information about your situation to really weigh in on your chances and the pros/cons of it all.

 
TNA:

Are you a UK student? I ask because if you are not then it will still be tough for you to get a job overseas even from those top schools.

An MSF can absolutely help many people, but it is not the answer to everything. I need to hear more information about your situation to really weigh in on your chances and the pros/cons of it all.

HI TNA, I am studying at a semi-target US university, with a 3.6-3.7 GPA. I am aiming to work in Hong Kong, where the name brand of a school is very important, perhaps even more so than networking (excluding family connections). This summer I did not succeed in obtaining BB SA positions, and will hopefully secure a regional boutique position. I am considering a MSF from a top school to get me that much-needed school name prestige on my resume, but considering that it is almost impossible to get a BB IBD FT position without a BB IBD SA, I'm wondering if I'm too late anyway...

 
F. Ro Jo:

It gives you access to OCR. That's it.

Yes and no.

The recruiting opportunity that a solid MSF gives you is much broader than OCR. Most importantly, if you've been unsuccessful at the UG securing a FT offer, an MSF gives you a reason to be part of a somewhat structured recruiting process again. You'll be able to fit into the pattern that IBs like without really raising too many eyebrows (sell the MSF correctly & develop story). So broadly speaking, good MSFs give you a chance to get another look. Now, specific paths that fit into 'getting another look':

  1. OCR may be available to you
  2. Enhanced alumni network
  3. Ability to 're-use' your network w/ an improved resume (brand name MSF / enhanced GPA), assuming you didn't interview poorly and maintained a working relationship w/ references

I think someone with a solid statistical background (GPA, majors, internships, volunteer exp. etc.) has the opportunity to pursue all three avenues. However, this isn't always the case as some kids use it as an opportunity to 'reboot' and aren't merely looking for a 'brand boost'. The three options are still available, but the choices get handicapped the less and less qualified they are.

So depending on your background and why you didn't get a FT offer. Yes an MSF could help significantly improve your chances at landing a FT IB offer. Conversely, if you missed the mark by a mile then an MSF could end up being a huge waste of your time and money.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'
 

Usually BB firms take FT positions from their BB SA class, but I am not sure if HK is the same way. If you get a solid regional SA I would imagine that would help when you have FT recruiting next year.

From what you describe I would try and get a job without the MSF. Your GPA is fine, you go to a semi and you will probably have FO internship experience. Since you want to work in HK there are only a few MSFs with the brand appeal that you'd be looking for.

 

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