Someone was asking me about this in PM and I wrote a long and detailed reply about what it is like to work in Big 4 and what advice I would give to people thinking about interning / working there. Thought it might be useful for others so my reply is below. Happy to answer any questions.
I currently work in the Financial Services (investment banks, brokers, retail banks, corporate banks, spread betting companies) sector at a Big 4 firm in London. I started back in October 2012 after doing various investment banking internships. The market for hiring full time in banking just wasn't there in London at that time so I ended up where I am now.
We did not really receive that much formal training. We had a week where we had various people speak to us about the firm, about the proprietary software, about the basics of working in business (most people I joined with had come straight from university and had limited / no previous experience). Most of the learning is assumed to be done either through your exams or on-the-job.Your day-to-day work as an associate / senior associate will vary depending on the time of year. Typically you spend the later half of the year (August - November/December) in college studying for exams. This may vary in the US because I think the ACA (UK certification) is more rigorous than the CPA as no prior knowledge is assumed.
The so-called "busy season" takes place between January and March and here it is common for you to work pretty hard. I had to work every single day in January other than New Years Day. On the weekdays I would get in at 9:30 and leave somewhere between 11pm and 2am, roughly comparable to banking hours. Once you get outside of "busy season", your hours are far more reasonable. Depending on the team you will start between 9 and 9:45 and finish between 5:30 and 6:30.
With regards to "prestige" (I hate this word / concept and think it is far too overused on these forums), Big 4 audit is certainly better off in the UK than it is in the US. Most boutique banks and even some of the middle-market ones look to hire people who have completed a training programme at at Big 4 firm as it gives you an incredibly detailed knowledge of accounting. However, I would still take a banking / hedge fund job at the drop of a hat and am always on the lookout.
Time to be brutally honest with you. The company I work for is fantastic. The culture is great, there are company drinks events around once a month, they are incredibly flexible with regards to holidays, personal commitments etc. Everyone is incredibly friendly and my intake (people I started with) are pretty tight-knit and usually meet up for drinks every Friday. College is fairly enjoyable and laid back but you HAVE to knuckle down and pass the exams. Every single person you speak to tells you that your main priority is passing exams; if you have revision to do you WILL leave at 5:30. If you fail exams twice, or hard fail (
Now for the honesty - I hate my job. Audit requires next to no skill or talent or creativity. The majority of what you do is basically copying what was done the year before and updating the numbers. I probably do around 1.5-2 hours of actual "work" a day and spend the rest of the time reading the news, building Excel models for my personal investing, reading up on companies, studying for my CFA exams and setting up external networking opportunities. Anything I can do to make sure that I get out of audit the second my training contract is up.
Ok, so I've probably either put you off audit entirely but don't be too disheartened. I don't like it because it's not the kind of thing that interests me - a lot of people I work with really enjoy it. You do get to spend a lot of time speaking to (relatively) senior management at client sites. I've lead meetings with COOs, had one-to-one's with Board members, been on friendly speaking terms with Head of International departments etc. You do get a lot of responsibility and a lot of accounting knowledge, but I personally find the actual work you to do be incredibly tedious.
You ask what you can do to prepare yourself for your internship. I would suggest 3 things:
- Make sure you are efficient in Excel, you know all the basic formulae (including INDEX MATCH) and the shortcuts and can work both quickly and accurately. This will impress people as most people are assumed to barely know how to use Outlook.
- Brush up on accounting basics and I really do mean basics. Learn what an income statement and balance sheet are, what the main line items are and the kinds of business your service line cover.
- Have some nice clothes. Don't pay attention to the people on this forum saying everything has to be $50 shirts or $400 suits and tailored - it doesn't. Get stuff that fits, looks professional and learn to wear it well. This means your tie should be done correctly, your shoes should be clean and shined, your shirt should not billow out around you.
- If you are not comfortable speaking to people face-to-face and writing business emails, make sure you can. When I'm thinking about whether a person is good or not I consider how they interact with the client and how they interact with me.
Thanks for sharing!
SB, I'm going to cross post this in the Corporate forum (seems a lot of those guys are interested in Big 4)
Thanks for sharing your experience :-)
SB'd ya.
Thank God I'm going into Tax instead of Audit. May not be as great for moving over to the finance side of things but all the stories I heard about Audit (including yours) I would be bashing my brains in 3 months into the job.
Some of my college buddies work at the Big 4 in Audit and TAS, hence I know about their salary in the first years. However, they don't work in an expensive city like London. Actually, I considered Big 4 TAS as an alternative to IB when I was done with university but I was unsure about the money you make at a Big 4 in London. It would be interesting to know how you get along with the Big 4 salary in the city? Are you sharing an apartment or do you live on your own? And how long is your commute? Thanks for your insights!
And btw, I totally agree with your post. I interned at a Big 4 in TAS and the culture (i.e. the drinks, people, holidays, hours, training, support staff, etc.) was just awesome, which was one of the main reasons why I really considered taking my return offer. But have you thought about moving to TAS? Internal moves were pretty easy at the Big 4 I interned and I heard about two guys of my old team who moved to small PE funds in London.
SB'd
Salary in the junior years is pretty poor. We get paid less than Big4 in the US and London is arguably more expensive than New York which really sucks. I share an apartment with 1 other guy and my rent is probably around 40% of my income. I don't have to live frugally, but I can't splurge on big nights every day. My commute depends on where exactly I'm working but I can get to my office in 20 minutes if I get lucky with trains. Maximum 30 minutes.
In my department / firm it's pretty tricky to move into TAS until you've finished your ACA qualification after 3 years. Then it's quite a bit easier to move, especially with internal networking. I do not want to stay in this industry though so I am making every possible effort to position myself for a move into ER and then hopefully buyside equity funds. Will be tough but I am incredibly motivated to do as it is my dream job :)
Thanks for sharing!
Great post. Wish you well in getting out of audit.
I have heard loads about the hours but tbh i just havent seen them. Sure there are assistant managers and above who can work 80-100 hours if its a nightmare (as in dozens of subsidiaries...accounts from prior year that are concurrently being audited with current ones etc) client...but tbf in my 7 months ive pretty much been leaving at 630 max. Many times at 530...it all depends on the client. Public sector clients leave early for home (obviously) and some corporate clients lock their building at 530/6 so thats great too. I guess im lucky like this because Im from a semi regional office (v.close to London) and my clients are smaller...however salary is same. Ive been told that one of the main reasons that London offices work such crazy hours is because they order dinner in at the office and work there afterwards...with shitloads of time being spent not actually working...where as us regional guys are almost more efficient.
otherwise quite agree with OP. people are mostly really nice, its mostly really chilled and relaxed....just the work isnt challenging. Ive been thinking of learning models and then doing valuations using the documents available to us in the down time..
St Albans or Gatwick? :P
From what I've seen, your hours will be worst either at Assistant Manager (3rd year of employment in UK) if you actually want to stay on because then you care about your ratings and need the Manager promotion, or at the Manager (5th year) level because then you're gunning for Senior Manager promotion.
If you are just looking to do your 3 years and leave, then Senior Associate (2nd year) seems to be the worst because you do want the Assistant Manager promotion for the salary bump and you are given a lot more responsibility / assumed knowledge than at the Associate level.
For those who might ask about bonuses - it's frankly insulting. We are not eligible for any kind of overtime pay and the average bonus is in the region of $500 pre-tax.
Hello members, I am very new to this forum. I would like to know the salary break up of a manager audit in a big 4 in London. Glassdoor range is around 55k so does this include car allowance which is normally 4.5 to 6k? or the car allowance is part of benefits hence the normal salary is 55k+4.5k. Thanks, really appreciate the help.
Really useful thanks. Any advice for an 18 year old doing a 8 month UK internship with a Big 4 in Audit this September? Basically I want to learn and gain as much connections as possible - would you suggest maybe buying the ICAEW book for Audit and going through it over the summer? I will take up some of your advice as well! thanks again.
I know several people who have done this as part of a gap year. My advice would be to use it as a networking opportunity. If you play it right you can definitely secure at LEAST a summer internship during university if not a full time offer for when you leave. I would not suggest buying any ICAEW material. Your assumed level of knowledge will be essentially zero. If you really want to go above and beyond just read through the financials of a company and learn what the various line items mean either from Investopedia or the WSO Finance Dictionary. Also make sure you can write business emails and are efficient in Excel.
Feel free to pm me which firm it is and if it happens to be the one I work at, I'm happy to set you up with some contacts or help you out during your time there.
Thank you very much - as part of the scheme, I actually go back during the university holidays for paid summer internships so am sorted on that front and most likely a full-time offer with satisfactory performance. I would appreciate some further insight into best materials for becoming Excel efficient - I believe I sit some the ACA knowledge modules during my first few weeks to get up to speed anyway. Great advice thanks, I will also do that. Will PM you now.
One of my friends works for Big 4 Audit in London. He hates it too. Really kind of sucks because he is really, really smart, personable, and interesting. He went into audit because he had family connections and a degree that was difficult but not very practical.
Speaking from similar personal experience in an internship, dead-on with your characterization of the actual work. Which is why I'm heading in a different direction. PM'd you for a somewhat unrelated question.
What kind of non-Wall Street exit opps are there for 2nd year/3rd year audit associates
Can't speak TOO directly for the US but in the UK your exit ops are pretty damn good to non Wall Street-esque work. Most people I know seem to want to go into internal finance and I can sort of see why, easy life style and relatively well paid. You can also transfer into Corporate Finance or maybe even Consulting.
Very interesting topic with some good hints. I will defenitely keep an eye on this.
Is there any chance of breaking into IBD/Corporate Finance before ACA qualification in London? Assuming my firm wont let met transfer to TAS until qualification (working in a smaller, less active market currently)
If you have previous experience (i.e IBD internship) then you definitely can. Most will look to hire ACAs but if you have the experience, network and interview well then you can get offers. You will have to be targeting the smaller brokers, not much chance of getting into a BB before qualification. Speaking from experience here.
Thanks Asatar, I would throw you a banana but I'm a broke Assistant II so you know how it is.. :/
30,000 pounds a year (gross). Tax, Deloitte, London, graduate scheme. Not me, a friend.
My knowledge of exit ops for public accounting in the U.S. is usually your client base. Basically, you end up with offers from the clients you audit. These positions typically go to Managers and above because of their experience level with the clients accounting department and systems but it is not uncommon for a senior staff to get job offers as well.
On another note, if you make it to Partner at a decent sized firm you can easily make $250k+ in salary(that's our firms starting salary for Partners and it's adjusted based on the city you work in). Not sure how much the bonuses amount to, but I have heard that they are very large.
Hello members, I am very new to this forum. I would like to know the salary break up of a manager audit in a big 4 in London. Glassdoor range is around 55k so does this include car allowance which is normally 4.5 to 6k? or the car allowance is part of benefits hence the normal salary is 55k+4.5k. Thanks, really appreciate the help.
Another positive: Big 4 seem to have fairly good exit opps in London. Have met a lot of ex-Big 4 guys who did a few years there -> Msc -> BB/MM IBs
MSc?!? From my understanding, according to what I've seen on efinancialcareers and to the senior people I have been meeting and reading about, you do not need to go back to school. You just need to get your ACA and be lucky enough to be headhunted or apply to the right opening or lateral to Transaction Services / Corporate Finance desks and then move to BB/MM IBs...
That's because in the US, the CPA designation means you get seen as a bean counter, while in the UK a CA designation means people think you know your shit.
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