How do investment bankers keep their work life balance?
Especially when you have to work until 2 am and get home around 4 am. How to deal with your wife/girlfriend and kids if you have any?
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You don't, really - this is why is partly why juniors work such nuts hours. They don't have a wife and kids yet, so they're willing.
I AM talking about juniors.
While interning, a few interns were able to go out to Brooklyn for parties and even the full time analysts went to concerts over the summer. It depends on deal flow and analyst productivity.
I think the idea is that you don't really have kids when you are just starting out... after you get a little more senior you have children...
Having spoken to quite a few guys who had girlfriends/wives stick it out with them through their analyst years, after I asked them the same thing, they told me you tell them about how it will suck before the job starts, you apologize a lot during the job, and you give them the little free time you do have... and buy them things.
You don't really balance it... one guy told me that he remembers calling his then girlfriend at 3am one night because he was having a breakdown in the office as a new analyst after a rough week (one of the first time pulling comps, said he realizes now that they didn't even matter). They talked, then she slept and he finished the job. So, it was a team effort even with both realizing there was no "work-life" balance, yet.
Again, I am just passing on the advice of three people (2 MDs, 1 VP) who were dating the girls they eventually married before they started as analysts... all started having kids around 28-32.
You finish work at 2am and get home at 4? Why on earth would I have a 2 hour compute when taking a cab back? Do I live in Schenectady?
Schenectady. Word of the day.
As far as OP goes, work comes first. If you can fit social lives in after sleep and work, be my guest.
Schenectady is an actual city, 2 and a half hours north of NYC.
See some people do lunches and dinners near the office regularly with their SO. A guy who interviewed me got married in his first year and he says he meets his wife for lunches and coffees throughout the week as she works 10 mins away from the office. The rest of the time is spent apologising to her for missed commitments.
Dude I eat at my desk and work at the same time. Too busy for lunches/dinners together
Is lunch outside allowed/common for analyst/associate? I know trading definitely has lunch at desk but that's market related. I can't image banker actually works every minute for 15 hours a day.
How realistic would you say is it that if I wanted to hit the gym 4x a week and spend one evening a week with a girlfriend that I could generally do it without too constant interruptions to such a schedule?
Dude, you're not impressing anyone with how busy you are and your PA response of "I AM TALKING ABOUT JUNIORS" is unnecessary. Good for you, you're a sweet investment banker. Once you've been doing it for a while you'll realize you're not an emergency surgeon and if you're in a a decent group people will understand if you have to slip out for a half hour or an hour every now and then to catch up with the SO. If things are important to you, you make time for them. You're never going to make it home for dinner every evening with this job but if things are slow one night, then you slip out for an hour or so to grab dinner with the lady on a random Tuesday night if you ever want someone to stick around. It sounds like to you those types of relationships don't have priority at this stage which is completely fine. When and if they are though, you just find gaps here and there.
Did I try to impress anyone with that? Living a life of an MD with plenty of time for family, that's what impress people out there. Don't know where your head is. But I'm 1st year analyst and everything is thrown at me by the senior analysts. But since you don't know the work environment here, how would you know.
Sounds like you're letting people take advantage of you. If you don't stand up or yourself, no one will. You don't always have to do everything that's asked of you, particularly if it's an analyst...
Does it looks any better in PE? I mean, are dinners/evenings spent with family an exception or sth that happens on every day basis? I assume that with senior roles in PE that's probably the case but how is it for entry-level people? It's not a client-centric business after all so there's no "sh*t to be done for yesterday". Or that depends on the culture of a particular PE shop?
I think it depends on the PE shop, but generally - still working a lot, but much more control over your time. A lot of evenings now (upper MM PE - end of 2nd year) I'll bounce around 7, go eat dinner and spend time w/ my significant other, then get back to work around 9 and finish up whatever I need to. I also don't have anyone up my butt needing stuff by end of night anymore, so I can generally go to sleep, get up earlier than normal, and finish any pressing work in the morning as well
When a deal gets crazy, it's more like banking, but even then easier to work from home / remotely
This sounds kind of scary too. I know we're speaking of finance here and that is super convenient compared to other places but still, it's not the traditional - get back home at 7-8 and have it OFF until the next morning. Guess no full balance in finance unless you're a partner or own a HF.
Seamless is your best friend. You can have seamless date in your office with your wifey, but kids? that's tough .. They will have to be understanding if possible. Take vacation with them to somewhere nice every year.
You can definitely have a life as a junior analyst.
There is no work life balance, work is your life. You got to pay your dues and make sacrifices. I was talking to a CEO of a Fortune 500 company last year, and his advice for starting a career was just that,
"Forget the concept of work-life balance, there is no such thing if you want to be successful. Accept and embrace the fact that your life will be work during the beginning of your career. Otherwise, accept mediocrity and give up now."
Something along those lines. However, you will have time to go out and enjoy life. Maybe fit in time for working out. It's about time management. I think his point was that, along with accepting a life of work, you will have free-time that you can either spend in leisure or you can take advantage of that time to further your career.
There is no balance. There are only choices.
Nobody forces you to work 100 hours a week, you choose to. Or choose not to. It is your life and the decision is yours. What you choose may evolve over time as your priorities change.
I agree, but in case of IB you either choose to work +/- 100 hours or not work at all or simply change the industry. What if I happen to be genuinely interested in finance and also think that there's more to life than just work, work, work? It's a pity I guess, nothing more than that. You gotta accept it or move on.
Asset Management
You don't have to be a banker. You don't have to do anything. Make your choices, because it is your life.
Maybe true for ib, not true for finance - if you like finance and don't want to work crazy hours you can work in other parts of finance. If you like ib or other demanding, relatively well paid jobs (law, medicine etc) then yes, you have to put in the time or move on
This. Everyone has the choice to not work in high finance/MBB/top tier law. You need to make sacrifices if you go down this career path, whether you know it or not when you're fresh out of uni
This is hilarious. You sign your name on the dotted line for Banking you know what you are getting into. The best approach is to be bluntly honest with your significant other, and hope that they are mature enough to put up with it for the time you are there. If not then either you need to find a new career or find a new significant other.
I have a girlfriend and am in IB at an EB and can say there is no balancing.. My girlfriend came into town on my worst week to date and I didn't see her for more than about 6 waking hours. I was out of the apartment before 8:00 am and wasn't getting home till 4:00am (at the earliest) for about 10 days straight. I was basically walking dead and she didn't see or talk to me even though she was staying in my apartment.
Granted the above is an extreme case, but that stuff happens to everyone at some point while they are an Analyst, don't go trying to buy your girlfriend stuff to make it up to her. It either won't work or it will and that is a sign you are with the wrong person anyways.
The best one yet! Thank you!
I ask for advice, I get monkey shitted for it. Riddle me that
Firstly, no one cares what time you overslept till or that you're getting killed at work. It comes with the territory and people have had it shitter.
As @"DickFuld" said, you make the choice to work those hours. You choose to let others shit on you when it comes to giving you work. Do you not have a working relationship with your associates and seniors to say "I'm at full capacity, I don't have time for this"? They wont be heartbroken, they'll find someone else.
You can make the choice to step out of the office for 30 minutes for lunch and dinner. If you're getting crushed on a live deal, by all means eat at your desk but I can't imagine you're knee deep in work every time you eat.
What about associates life? I assume many folks leave B-school around 28-30 and are expecting to get married/have kids within a few years?
The hours get slightly better and you get more control over your life (marginally), but banking will never be a 9-5 job. As you move up the ladder you still put in the time and hours just in a different capacity. You arent cranking on models till 4 am, you are taking a red-eye back from a mgmt pres in LA and getting on a conference call from a ski lodge at 1 am on ur vacation. Its a commitment to a lifestyle, its not like MDs just leave the office at 5 and go home and shut down.
Work/Life in IB from Current/Former Banker Perspective (Originally Posted: 04/15/2014)
Hi all,
Posting this to hear back from any currently/formerly in IB. As someone who's not in IB, but looking to get in, I often hear people tell me that you live to work in IB (honestly, one of the many reasons I'm attracted to it).
Want to get some insight into the reality of the work/life in IB at all levels (so please specify if your experience is as an analyst, associate, or higher). Do any of you regret getting into IB rather than another field?
Sorry if a post like this already exists, new to this forum. If it does, a link would be great.
Thanks
If one of the reason you're attracted to ib is because of the hours, go start a company instead.
Depends on which section u go in. FOBO's base salary for the junior is not much off, but the difference in bonus is massive. I used to work in product controlling role (kinda M/BO) and the trader i dealt with thought my bonus was a joke (which it kind was....). I know work in reporting/regulatory (BO), work load is not easy with all the added pressure from strict regulation, and since it still sits within the non-revenue generating departmenet, bonus is on the low end. My FO friends actually dont work the same long hour as i do...i mean as the market is closed, they are free to go in a sense. We however, have to work over weekends/public holidays to get our results ready for press release etc.
So in general: FO -- money tends to be good; hours would depend on which department you go in. MO/BO -- money not as good, hours again depend on which department...
IB intern returning for FT.
Based on my experience and those I worked with, hours were 80+ (one week during my internship was pretty busy and it got to ~140 hours, but that's a huge anomaly). Hours for me were usually 80-100, and often around the middle of that range.
Similar for analysts, bit better for associates and a bit better still for VPs. MDs worked around 40-60 hours a week in the office, and would also dial in/review work etc when traveling/at home.
You averaged 20 hours per day for 7 days straight at one point??
Highly suspect
People wanting to break into IB often glamourize the work hours, as if there's something inherently cool in working a lot of hours. I partially understand that (especially since I thought so myself at one point) but you ought to ask yourself why you want to work all the time. The problem with IBD is that the work you do is very repetitive, not to mention that it is almost exclusively performed in PowerPoint. Nothing wrong with building presentations or correcting mistakes ("mark-ups") but no matter what you do it will be boring if you do it 18 hours a day.
I encourage you to try IBD if you think it could be something for you and then evaluate if that lifestyle is what you are looking for.
no you didn't.
He was an intern- meaning he was probably doing every task in 2x the amount of time it could have been done by someone with experience and was also probably sticking around longer than was necessary for facetime purposes. I still have trouble believing that figure, but who knows.
People exaggerate their hours a bit too. I work a MO/BO role right now, but a bunch of my friends work front office. I can see on communicator when they are or aren't on, and how long they've been idle...They definitely pad their hours a bit when they talk to our friends - but there's no denying it, they do work a lot, and they are tired all the time.
lol thanks. since you have all the analytics, what would you say is avg, and how many instances of 100+ hr weeks?
you didnt work 140 hrs. fuck off
I absolutely did, but I don't need to prove myself to a bunch of random users on an online forum....if you must know, I was the only intern on a transaction that was a huge deal for the bank and the analyst and associate on the deal team spent all their time on the model, so all presentation materials, research requests, trading updates etc that week fell to me...and yes, it was early in my internship and as someone alluded to here, I was pretty slow. This is in Australia and not the US, so teams are leaner and people often work longer hours. The head of banking came by to thank me for my work that week, because it was common knowledge in the office that I put in a brutal week. Believe what you want to believe, but I'm not making anything up...why on earth would I waste my time making stuff up on an online forum? I have much better things to do with my time than try to impress (or depress) random online users
Well you did care enough to go into detail about it, so I'm not certain that you do have better things to do with your time.
I'm not even saying that you are making it up - just that you may have trouble counting.
Australia works way less than the states on average
True, but when there is a big project and fewer people on it in Australia than would be in the US, Australian bankers often work longer hours...
This is a very interesting post and reading the responses is giving a lot of insight, however, just to the original poster, I'd like to point out that due to a lot of social outbreak of all the stress I-Bankers have been going through, some banks are considering putting limits to the hours of the workers. With that said, a few years from now, those changes may have gone through.
That's just some food for thought and I think it's VERY important to consider, since the hours seem really important to you.
Don't know why notthehospitalER is getting shit on so much. I never worked more than 100 as an intern and haven't hit more than 120 full time, but had 2 friends who interned at top banks in the last 2-3 years who pulled weeks in the high 120s and mid 130s so it's possible....
Huge difference between 120s and 140
Not going to partake in the argument re: @"notthehospitalER"'s supposed 140-hour week, but I will say that if there were truth to the number, it would be the longest work week I have ever encountered in my time in IB. Given he was an intern at the time, I suspect that if it were true, it would be mostly out of suboptimal productivity than outrageous workload.
That's not to say the workload is light in IB, rather that most bankers overstate their hours (I've found a general rule of thumb to be subtracting 20 hours from the reported number). Having a wide sample of friends and colleagues across many banks, I can confidently say that ~80 hours is a much more reasonable estimate of a median IB week (with obvious variability, particularly on the high end).
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