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WSO, it is time to talk.

The new trend around here lately has been to post about how badly you hate your job (specifically in iBanking) and then act like a genius when you decide you want to leave. This needs to stop. It is not a shocking revelation that you don’t like working 100 hours a week, getting fat, having bad skin, becoming a pale, unattractive, grease ball for the sake of working a job that, on the surface, pays you the big bucks, but when you get right down to it, gives you a diluted hourly right just slightly above minimum wage.

A lot of you need to wake the f*ck up and realize two, very important things:

Number 1:

The shittiest time of your life, work wise, is the time between graduating college and becoming 30. I don’t care what anyone says about your 20s being a magical time in your life. Your early 20s are. The mid to late 20s are supposed to suck, bad. You come out of college, usually broke, with debt and start working at the bottom of the layer cake. You are a nobody, a nothing. The school you went to doesn’t mean shit anymore. You are, in fact, completely replaceable. Wake up and realize you are not entitled to anything at this point in your life and no one, not even your parents, have sympathy for you being over tired or overworked. You just spent four years getting drunk, doing drugs and not doing shit for society.

Number 2:

The 80s are gone and with it is the Wall Street mentality. No longer is the norm getting in with a company and staying there for 30 years. Really working hard for the man to become wealthy. We are living in a time where a shitty little camera app gets bought by a company for $1 billion (after be talked down from 2). The days of getting in with a company and staying there to work your way up to the top are gone. Today’s companies seek mobile employees. The people that have no problem moving from sector to sector, division to division, state to state, city to city and wearing multiple hats are the most valuable employees. You really need to get it out of your head that because you are an intermediate with excel and can do a DCF analysis, you are worth a shit. I can write a macro to do the work you do and have a chimpanzee insert the dumps to generate that report. You are not special.

Let’s face the facts. A lot of you are getting into an industry that is shrinking. Not dying, shrinking. Today alone, BofA announced they are cutting 2,000 jobs from their investment banking and wealth management divisions. The industry is changing and it is changing with the new world we live in.

Back to my original point. The self-pity, hippie bullshit needs to end. In the past week there have been five topics like this and I have read more about people writing in their journal and giving the “be what you want to be” speech than I care to. Realize that success takes hard work and a result of hard work is typically money. Money may not be what causes happiness, but all that shit you like to do that makes you happy (golf, sailing, wife) requires money. So STFU, buckle down for your mid to late 20s and get it done. See my signature for further morale boosting.

Comments (137)

  • pacman007's picture

    embrace the corporate drone lifestyle.

    "Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a Champion" - Muhammad Ali

  • Edmundo Braverman's picture

    LOL. Great post.

    I'll be honest, I've enjoyed the string of "fuck banking" posts lately and you're right - the business is going through a major contraction that probably won't ease up for the next 40 years (if the last Wall Street extinction-level event is any indicator). Those who are trapped in banking already need to make the best of it, but those who aren't in the industry yet need to give some serious thought to doing something else. Hopefully these "fuck banking" posts are providing the necessary food for thought.

    The fact is it used to be easy, guys. I'm no fucking genius. Back when I was slinging commodities the CPI was at an all-time low. Hell, crude oil was $11 a barrel. You'd have had to have been a fucking retard not to make money.

    That just isn't the case anymore.

  • Human's picture

    Great post. Finally from someone who has worked his way up in the industry. Not from someone in their early 20s who wants to join the hipster crowd. And I am definitely not interested in the "street-musician" route.

    "I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

  • UFOinsider's picture

    Welcome to the machine. All my life I hear people saying "these are supposed to be the best years of our lives". In 8th grade, then high school, then college, then 20's...listen, life isn't a fucking party. It's hard, REALLY HARD. Fucking get over it. I'm sick of entitled little rich punks whining about having to hold a fucking job. Get to work and shut the fuck up about it.

    On another note: I'm glad you made the distinction between the industry DYING and SHRINKING. One number that I just saw said +/- 21,000 jobs. HOLY FUCKING SHIT. Personally, I see things picking up much sooner than 40 years...I give it a decade, and I forsee companies hiring more starting in 2013. I'm timing my exit from MBA for 2016, just to be safe. But we still won't see anything like the 80's until we're all close to retirement.

    As for the posts, the first dude can choke on it...one year??? STFU. The other posts are pretty legit though: one guy just got tired of this and the other is leaving to start his own company (my ultimate goal as well). I'm going to encourage these posts because finance is a short term move for 95% of the people rolling through the doors of a bank....it's good to have your eye on the prize, and these posts illustrate exactly what that prize can be.

    As for hating on hippies: dude, do you even know any? OWS aren't hippies, they're anarchists. Aside from the work thing, hippies are chill as hell. Hipsters, not so much, but hippies are ok in my book.

    Get busy living

  • happypantsmcgee's picture

    Well said.

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

  • streetwannabe's picture

    +1! haha, Loved the part about the macro monkey.

    "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

  • In reply to Human
    rufiolove's picture

    Human wrote:
    Great post. Finally from someone who has worked his way up in the industry. Not from someone in their early 20s who wants to join the hipster crowd. And I am definitely not interested in the "street-musician" route.

    I'm not really sure what you're referring to... at least 2 of the posts were from mid-level VPs, they've seen way more shit and have more right to comment on reality of banking currently, than an outsider who works in Corporate Finance for a F500 firm. None of these were "fuck banking" posts, and people who are viewing them that way are getting incredibly defensive, which is just further evidence that it is challenging some of their core beliefs. The fact that such innocent, self-reflective posts are triggering such a defensive, confrontational response "nut the fuck up" etc, is merely evidence that people feel the need to substantiate what they are doing, which to me alludes to insecurity.

    Nefarious, I'm not sure of all the details of your background, but I'm assuming that you didn't work in banking, thus it's very difficult for me to assign a lot of credibility to your critique of honest self-reflection with respect to posts by Tier2Sta and TechBanking, they have just as much (likely much more) experience as you do, and have dealt with more than their fair share of shit. I can give you a slight benefit of doubt on providing some critique to the Stephen Ridley post, but even then it is mainly based on experience, but not necessarily wisdom.

    It's just very difficult for someone who is currently working in the industry to lend a lot of credence to what you're saying. Sure, people theoretically know what they are getting into when they sign up to work in banking, but they don't really. Your criticism is a bit myopic and short sighted. TechBanking is leaving to work on what sounds to be a fantastic opportunity. You simply don't understand the industry quite as well as you think you do. You are an external observer judging based on peripheral anecdotes and truisms that no longer hold as much weight as they used to. The game has changed, as you mentioned and people frequently allude to, but with that, the benefits have changed, and in many cases are borderline nonexistant. People are simply upholding economic maxims by weighing the opportunity costs associated with their situations and choosing to make an INFORMED decision that it is time for the next chapter. These aren't "grass is greener" stories (with the exception of maybe the Ridley case, but even then it wasn't a 'fuck banking' everyone should leave), and to paint them as such does a massive disservice to the impressionable college contingent that makes up the majority of this forum.

    Don't be so quick to view others' choices to seek happiness as an indictment of the financial services industry as a whole. I agree with you that times are tough and you have to put your head down and work when the occasion calls for it, but I disagree with you on other points. People are getting worked harder than they were before for less pay and the opportunities for alternatives are shrinking as well. I wouldn't be so critical of people who are choosing to seek a happier, more content lifestyle. Keep in mind that even though you may not think anything of an analyst from a bank that does 2-3 years, but putting in 2-3 years at a bank is like working 2-3x that in any other corporate setting, a fact which you are remiss to acknowledge.

    The wise on the board know that life is about trade-offs and they are choosing now as the time to trade-off. If you understand anything about the current comp structure at many firms, you would almost be crazy to stay as a VP, as in many cases as much as 75-80% of their comp can be locked up for 3 years and in some cases as much as 8... but I'm sure it makes them stupid that they don't want to stick around another 8 years in a tumultuous industry in which their development as already plateaued, merely to have even more of their future comp deferred. They're called Golden Handcuffs for a reason, let's not get to preachy.

    To the kids out there who are hungry to take the world by storm, I support it fully and still view my decision as a fruitful and prudent one. Just don't be surprised when you get here and realize that it's tougher than it was, and that a lot of what people were SB'd for advising you doesn't necessarily translate as well into your new reality as you thought it would.

  • M Friedman's picture

    As Bruce Wasserstein said "beware of false endings." Although the financial industry is shrinking, it is not dead. Anyone who believes that this money machine is over, must not believe in the business cycle.

    The barbarians are just licking their wounds and waiting to storm the gates...

  • In reply to smalleights
    rufiolove's picture

    smalleights wrote:
    +1, truer words were never spoken.

    All the best things in like are never easy to acquire, nor would I want them to be. Everyone that quits when they hit a bit of resistance is just a huge pussy and needs to sack up.

    Lol... be sure to remember this when you miss a good friend's wedding because your VP wants to churn out another draft that no one will look at, especially not the client, and then ask yourself "Am I a pussy because I want to be there for one of the biggest days of my buddy's life?" It's very likely that you aren't... you're probably a good guy who is ambitious, works hard, and wants to be successful. I guess the silver lining could be that you are only missing a wedding and not a funeral, but I personally know people who have been in both predicaments, and lets just say that it's very easy for you to be on the outside calling anyone who doesn't want to work 100 hours a week a pussy, but that's just until you've had the taste of a 130 hour week and you realize that there is nothing heroic about working 130 hours for something that didn't even get accomplished.

    I admire your enthusiasm, just don't get too big for your boots just yet, this job / industry delights in humbling the audacious.

  • IlliniProgrammer's picture

    +1 to everything rufio and eddie said.

    Quote:
    Anyone who believes that this money machine is over, must not believe in the business cycle.

    Nobody is saying it is. But the fundamental drivers for another boom aren't there yet. I'm looking for low Herfindahl and Gini indices. They probably won't be for at least another decade. If you want to spend ten years slaving away 90 hour weeks making less than you could working 1-2 levels below C-level at an F500 firm, be my guest. We'll all be in our thirties or forties then, and it will be too late for us to enjoy all the money we'll be making

    Quote:
    Back to my original point. The self-pity, hippie bullshit needs to end. In the past week there have been five topics like this and I have read more about people writing in their journal and giving the “be what you want to be” speech than I care to. Realize that success takes hard work and a result of hard work is typically money. Money may not be what causes happiness, but all that shit you like to do that makes you happy (golf, sailing, wife) requires money. So STFU, buckle down for your mid to late 20s and get it done. See my signature for further morale boosting.

    Sure, but the story is that a lot of the folks leaving HAVE been successful. They HAVE money. They're realizing that that's not what makes them happy.

    I think what I'm really seeing here with OP's diatribe might be cognitive dissonance. You're seeing a number of veterans in an industry you're about to enter realizing they're happier elsewhere. But that doesn't say anything about OP's happiness. OP needs to figure out what makes OP happy. I'm glad for OP that he's happy with banking- otherwise he'd be going into a different industry rather than posting this. I'm just surprised that alternative views make him so angry.

  • metrovestments's picture

    DAAAAAMN

    Life is not a "brief candle." It is a splendid torch that I want to make burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future generations

  • MBAApply's picture

    I don't see any of this existential angst to be unusual. It's been happening when I was in banking in the 90s (and I'm sure before that -- there's always this "it used to be much better in the old days"). The whole "screw banking!" sentiment is normal, it comes with the territory of being an overworked peon at the bottom of the totem pole - in good times or bad; the only difference is that in good times, it tends to be about how much better whatever hot sector-of-the-moment is compared to banking. In bad times, it's about how crappy the whole industry is.

    Most people (myself included) get into it, and realize it wasn't what we expected it to be. But we made a bit of pocket change, learned a lot about ourselves and priorities, and moved on to other things (most of us did anyhow).

    Alex Chu
    www.mbaapply.com

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    Nefarious-'s picture

    IlliniProgrammer wrote:

    I think what I'm really seeing here with OP's diatribe might be cognitive dissonance. You're seeing a number of veterans in an industry you're about to enter realizing they're happier elsewhere. But that doesn't say anything about OP's happiness. OP needs to figure out what makes OP happy. I'm glad for OP that he's happy with banking- otherwise he'd be going into a different industry rather than posting this. I'm just surprised that alternative views make him so angry.

    I am currently working Strategy, Planning and Development for one of the largest defense companies in the world, so I am missing your point. The underlying messages of my post are:

    1) Stop bitching about your job
    2) Your 20s are not easy and are not meant to be easy
    3) Anyone going into high finance and getting burnt out and then wondering why is a moron

    You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

  • West Coast rainmaker's picture

    Good points. The reasons you outlined are why I didn't say "fuck finance" after my first hundred hour week.

    However, I think the posts you mentioned do have value. These boards are mostly used by college students, many of whom have likely not worked in finance. It is really easy to think, "If I have $XXX,XXX in my account, I will be happy." or "I want to work at [megafund] for the rest of my life!"

    I was one of those people until I got a bit older. I thought that I could just grind my way through a 20-30 year career in banking/PE, but then I realized you need to like what you do. Work is a major part of your life, so you had better enjoy it.

    If you like banking, good for you. You will make a ton of money if you are reasonably competent. But most people don't like banking. So I would just tell students to figure out what they like doing, and what it takes to get there. That path may or may not include banking. The value of these "hippy" threads is that they go against the popular consensus that "Banking>PE>Bschool>Greatness" is the "best" path. In truth, it comes down to personal preferences...no career is best.

  • In reply to Nefarious-
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    Nefarious- wrote:
    IlliniProgrammer wrote:

    I think what I'm really seeing here with OP's diatribe might be cognitive dissonance. You're seeing a number of veterans in an industry you're about to enter realizing they're happier elsewhere. But that doesn't say anything about OP's happiness. OP needs to figure out what makes OP happy. I'm glad for OP that he's happy with banking- otherwise he'd be going into a different industry rather than posting this. I'm just surprised that alternative views make him so angry.

    I am currently working Strategy, Planning and Development for one of the largest defense companies in the world, so I am missing your point. The underlying messages of my post are:

    1) Stop bitching about your job
    2) Your 20s are not easy and are not meant to be easy
    3) Anyone going into high finance and getting burnt out and then wondering why is a moron


    1.) I don't think anyone is bitching about their job. They just realize that their utility is maximized elsewhere.
    2.) Life isn't meant to be easy, and it only gets tougher after your 20s.
    3.) I don't think anyone is wondering why they're burnt out. I don't think anyone is even surprised or feels bad for themselves. They're just realizing doing other things makes them happier.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    justin88's picture

    IlliniProgrammer wrote:
    the fundamental drivers for another boom aren't there yet. I'm looking for low Herfindahl and Gini indices. They probably won't be for at least another decade. If you want to spend ten years slaving away 90 hour weeks making less than you could working 1-2 levels below C-level at an F500 firm, be my guest. We'll all be in our thirties or forties then, and it will be too late for us to enjoy all the money we'll be making

    Looking at Gini on a per-country basis is making less and less sense these days, due to globalization. Trickle down is working globally, just not for the American middle class who whine a lot but aren't really poor at all on a global scale.

  • TechBanking's picture

    Maybe this is less aimed at my post than some of the others, but I made my post primarily as a counter-point to the others. My post wasn't meant to be anything along the lines of screw this, it sucks, and I'm out.

    I've had a great run in banking, and, as I said in my post, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I made it past the hard parts, and I wanted to provide a perspective that those (somewhat) hard times have brought me to the point that I can now do what I want.

    I was hoping to provide an example to the college guys/junior analysts of what opportunity can lie on the other side of the steep hill that they are currently climbing.

  • yhp2009's picture

    I don't see why there is so much rukus over this.
    Whatever it is that you get into, just give it your honest effort and see how it goes.

    1) If you leave after ~1 yr then be happy that you found out early, but don't go off telling people how their lives are gonna pan out if they stay in the industry. You don't have enough trophies to do that yet.

    2) If you leave after ~5+ years, then you are in a sweet spot to slingshot into a different industry that you believe suit you better. YOURE NOT QUITTING ANYTHING. YOU ARE TRANSITIONING. There is a big differnce.

    3) If you stayed for a career, then great! Most people have a need to experience change every few years, and you have to respect that. What is happening is just that... intelligent people feeling the need to diversify their portfolio of life experiences. Wish them luck and let them go.

    As for the recent surge in 'i quit' posts, and their effects on impressionable college kids... if they feel swayed by these posts, they were on the fence already and had it coming.

  • In reply to TechBanking
    Human's picture

    TechBanking wrote:
    I was hoping to provide an example to the college guys/junior analysts of what opportunity can lie on the other side of the steep hill that they are currently climbing.

    Thank you for your post. This part is all I wanted to hear.

    "I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

  • In reply to justin88
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    dabanobo wrote:

    Looking at Gini on a per-country basis is making less and less sense these days, due to globalization. Trickle down is working globally, just not for the American middle class who whine a lot but aren't really poor at all on a global scale.

    Sure, but the problem is that the trading game is ultimately about the assumption that the people who have money aren't smart enough to manage it efficiently. With higher ginis- with more wealth in generally smarter hands- there are fewer opportunities for that in the US.

    There might be a lot of middle-class Chinese or Indian investors with funds to invest. But the US won't be their first destination.

  • In reply to rufiolove
    TechBanking's picture

    rufiolove wrote:

    ...when you miss a good friend's wedding because your VP wants to churn out another draft that no one will look at, especially not the client, and then ask yourself "Am I a pussy because I want to be there for one of the biggest days of my buddy's life?" It's very likely that you aren't... you're probably a good guy who is ambitious, works hard, and wants to be successful. I guess the silver lining could be that you are only missing a wedding and not a funeral, but I personally know people who have been in both predicaments

    I have personally been in both situations, and trust me, it takes way more balls to tell a MD to piss off because you aren't going to miss a family funeral than to sit there and just turn the book/build the model.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    bulge_bracket's picture

    IlliniProgrammer wrote:

    We'll all be in our thirties or forties then, and it will be too late for us to enjoy all the money we'll be making

    Wait, what?? How will it be too late in our 30s and 40s for us to enjoy the money we make? You realize that chances are this is when most people only start to make and are able to use good money, right?

    I'm not sure this is your point, but I hate it when people act like you're useless at age 50, which is when most people are at their intellectual primes and the top of their careers. On an unrelated tangent, I also hate it when people say "I want to have kids when I'm young, like 25, cause I want to be able to do stuff with them when they're growing and not be too old." Newsflash - unless you plan on rock climbing or performing Olympic events with your children, and even then in some cases, you will still be able to function as a human being at age 50. My dad had me when he was 40 and he was more than able to throw a ball and run at age 50 and still is more than able to today in his sixties. If you're anticipating not being able to move in your 50s, well I'm really sorry for you. Sheesh.

  • swagon's picture

    Nefarious- wrote:
    WSO, it is time to talk.

    It is not a shocking revelation that you don’t like ...becoming a pale


    glad u brought this up. ever since twilight, lots of chicks like the mysterious pale look on dudes these days. i would rock that look except i'm naturally very dark.

    point is, yes in IB u might look like a vampire, but use it 2 your advantage. hang outside movie theaters and hit on the 37 y/o soccer moms looking for a younger thrill b/c life has become so mundane for them they've resorted to teenage vampire romance novels/movies to "feel young again."

    i'm so jelly of u bankers who can pull that off. obviously i can't. my record label is always doing concerts on the beach so i get even darker from the tan.

  • In reply to swagon
    djfiii's picture

    swagon wrote:
    Nefarious- wrote:
    WSO, it is time to talk.

    It is not a shocking revelation that you don’t like ...becoming a pale


    glad u brought this up. ever since twilight, lots of chicks like the mysterious pale look on dudes these days. i would rock that look except i'm naturally very dark.

    point is, yes in IB u might look like a vampire, but use it 2 your advantage. hang outside movie theaters and hit on the 37 y/o soccer moms looking for a younger thrill b/c life has become so mundane for them they've resorted to teenage vampire romance novels/movies to "feel young again."

    i'm so jelly of u bankers who can pull that off. obviously i can't. my record label is always doing concerts on the beach so i get even darker from the tan.

    dump some glitter on yourself. you'll be in like flynn.

  • In reply to swagon
    Nefarious-'s picture

    swagon wrote:
    My record label is always doing concerts on the beach so i get even darker from the tan.

    Understandable.

    You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

  • Faddy's picture

    that's not at all the point of these "fuck banking" posts. The majority of members here are go to sleep thinking about IB, dream about models and bottles, and wake up with a boner brought on by the word prestige. They have no idea what they are in for and the idea of 100 hours a week is something that they have heard and read about so often that it goes in one ear and out the other.

    After reading your post I really don't understand why anyone would want to pursue IB... it's a shrinking field (both in numbers and pay) that offers a terrible life with few of the benefits that got us interested in the first place.

    If you are miserable for 100 out of 168 hours a week but can afford a new tv at the end of the day then what;s the point?

  • In reply to Faddy
    swagon's picture

    Faddy wrote:
    If you are miserable for 100 out of 168 hours a week but can afford a new tv at the end of the day then what;s the point?

    i think most kidz up in this bish will answer "exit opps." but if i was a young guy gonna do banking, the reason 4 me wood be the sex-it opps.

    i know ive enjoyed the "benifits" if u know what im sayin, of bein a successful record label owner, so i dont blame any1 4 being attracted to the bishes who flock 2 u when ur in banking, or at least thats what i been gleanin' from reeding this site.

  • In reply to TechBanking
    rufiolove's picture

    TechBanking wrote:
    rufiolove wrote:

    ...when you miss a good friend's wedding because your VP wants to churn out another draft that no one will look at, especially not the client, and then ask yourself "Am I a pussy because I want to be there for one of the biggest days of my buddy's life?" It's very likely that you aren't... you're probably a good guy who is ambitious, works hard, and wants to be successful. I guess the silver lining could be that you are only missing a wedding and not a funeral, but I personally know people who have been in both predicaments

    I have personally been in both situations, and trust me, it takes way more balls to tell a MD to piss off because you aren't going to miss a family funeral than to sit there and just turn the book/build the model.

    I hear you and I've done it... not with a funeral, fortunately, but for my cousin's wedding. I think he appreciated the balls it took to step up and say how important it was to me and the maturity to line up sufficient coverage so that it didn't create an issue.

    I definitely appreciated the hell out of your post and think you would have been a good dude to work for, which is why I felt compelled to say something... the prior tone of the thread was way to negative and shortsighted toward the recent posts, which I felt was unwarranted. Please keep me apprised of your future pursuits, and hopefully they are fruitful and exciting.

  • In reply to Faddy
    bulge_bracket's picture

    Faddy wrote:
    that's not at all the point of these "fuck banking" posts. The majority of members here are go to sleep thinking about IB, dream about models and bottles, and wake up with a boner brought on by the word prestige. They have no idea what they are in for and the idea of 100 hours a week is something that they have heard and read about so often that it goes in one ear and out the other.

    After reading your post I really don't understand why anyone would want to pursue IB... it's a shrinking field (both in numbers and pay) that offers a terrible life with few of the benefits that got us interested in the first place.

    If you are miserable for 100 out of 168 hours a week but can afford a new tv at the end of the day then what;s the point?

    I agree with the first part. They don't know what they'll be getting into. Anyone getting into banking because of models and bottles is an idiot. I also think that way too many people get into it thinking "I'm doing it to lateral to PE in two/three years and I'm gonna make bannnnkkkk." Well, do you like PE? Do you like the kinds of things that are involved in PE? How do you know you'll make it to PE? In the end, I think that it amounts to people trying to plan their lives too far in advance with too many unknown variables; the reality is that most people don't have a clue where they'll be in three years (unless they're freshmen in school, etc). That being said, that's why I do think that those going into Capital Markets and S&T for the sake of going into Capital Markets and S&T, not lateraling in a few years, have a better chance of enjoying themselves because of the somewhat shorter hours and the immediate chance to see what they'll be doing in a few years (the same thing). That way, they can make an informed decision as to whether they like the work rather than just promising themselves it'll pay off and sucking it in as they do in IBD.

  • SonnyZH's picture

    Amazing post. + SB.

    Quote:
    The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.

  • Human's picture

    I understand that investment banking is not the road to salvation. But it appears to me that it is one of the many tried and tested routes among college students. There is an existing infrastructure to train you. There is a need for the service. There is a route that has been tried. Yes, the industry is changing, and it is noticeably shrinking. Within a couple of years, investment banking might no longer exist the way we are currently seeing. Yes, I hear the “think outside of the box” notion that has been thrown out there, even though most people on the forum are clueless about where else to go and what else to do.

    My question is this. Other than the normal IBD > B School > PE/HF route, what are other routes? I want solid answer for alternatives. Come on!!! Yes, I am not going to settle for “follow your passion” answer. That’s totally BS. Or things like “you have to look deeper into yourself to figure that out”. That is definitely not a value added answer. That kind of answer just shows that you don’t know what you are talking about at all. What I want to know is given all the skill sets that you have learned from banking, what are the other routes that you can pursue? How can you leveraged your skill sets to get the next best possibly paid gig?

    To all the older guys complaining about banking, so is this your route?
    Banking > Quit > Do Something Random
    Banking > I don’t know what the fuck I will do > I still don’t know

    Personally, the only thing I can think of is similar to what TechBanking said:
    TechBanking: IBD > Startup

    Most common routes that I have seen:
    IBD > Corporate Development within industry covered previously
    IBD > Corporate Finance within industry covered previously
    IBD > Management of the companies previously covered
    IBD > Fund raising role for funds investing in sector previously covered
    IBD > Career Coaching (see: M&I, Analyst Exchange, WSO)

    "I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

  • In reply to justin88
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    dabanobo wrote:
    If that has any effect, it would pale in comparison to market structure changes within the past generation (penny quotes, internet brokers, etc.).

    Sure, but what's the fundamental economic value created behind trading? Why do we have mutual funds? Why is money actively managed? Why do we need publicly traded corporations?

    As ginis go up, all of those "Whys" start to make trading- especially actively managed funds- look less essential to a well-run economy. When you had a bunch of middle-class investors with 100 IQs and money to invest, we NEEDED mutual funds. Even with the mass affluent class, we need hedge funds. When you lose the mass affluence class; when the smart money is ALL the money, there is no need to hire people to manage money for you, because you're probably better at it than what's on offer, or you're at least good enough that you're only willing to pay a good manager 50 basis points, not 2 + 20. Likewise, there's also less money to be made off of efficient market-making and other market agnostic strategies, simply because smart guys drop less change.

    Ultimately, if Gini coefficients continue to rise, we won't need corporations anymore, and we certainly won't need banks. The whole idea behind a publicly traded corporation is to organize very large groups of people to capitalize businesses because you can't find a small group of people who all know each other that have the money to do it on their own.

    Here is when the trading business has bottomed: when guys like ANT are saying the libertarians have gone too far and that the rich have gotten too rich. :D

  • Kenny_Powers_CFA's picture

    *Golf clap*

    There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.

  • kmess024's picture

    +1

    The Four E's of investment
    "The greatest Enemies of the Equity investor are Expenses and Emotions."- Warren Buffet

  • In reply to Nefarious-
    melvvvar's picture

    Nefarious- wrote:
    IlliniProgrammer wrote:

    I think what I'm really seeing here with OP's diatribe might be cognitive dissonance. You're seeing a number of veterans in an industry you're about to enter realizing they're happier elsewhere. But that doesn't say anything about OP's happiness. OP needs to figure out what makes OP happy. I'm glad for OP that he's happy with banking- otherwise he'd be going into a different industry rather than posting this. I'm just surprised that alternative views make him so angry.

    I am currently working Strategy, Planning and Development for one of the largest defense companies in the world, so I am missing your point. The underlying messages of my post are:

    1) Stop bitching about your job
    2) Your 20s are not easy and are not meant to be easy
    3) Anyone going into high finance and getting burnt out and then wondering why is a moron

    so you're not working on wall street and you never have.

  • analyst-therapist's picture

    So you don't work in "high finance" as you call it, and you are giving those of us who do a condescending rant? On a subject you clearly know nothing about... seems legit.

    Also you make the assumption that all the "fuck banking" posters quit because they couldnt hack it, which is patently false. They proved they could hack it more than you can, but they also realized that other things make them happy. Who the fuck are you to tell them they're wrong. You only live once and if someone has the balls, yes the balls, to quit this fucking rat race and actually enjoy life and do what they want, then i'd have to say they are much braver than your or I.

    In the end, noone will give a fuck what job you had, and if banking doesnt make you happy then fuck it. Who are you or I to judge? Get off your high horse, your obnoxious. Pretty much think this is one of the more ignorant posts ive seen on here.

  • jpmoranmonkeysachs's picture

    Ok guys calm the F down. Everyone is getting a bit too emotional.

    -Why are ppl leaving the industry? They believe their skills can be used in a more productive place. ie TechBanking This industry is a great jump start for newly graduated students. The learning curve is huge. Some like to stay for the long term. Some want the experience and want out. Everyone is different

    -At the moment is the industry brutal? Yes, everyone is getting grilled and getting paid quite low. However, like every other industry its going through its business cycle. The firms will have to reinvent themselves.

    -Reinvent itself? BB or boutiques have to cut down on their costs. They cant sustain themselves at the current rate. Plus many 'rain makers' are leaving their firms to start their own or joining others. As you folks know, this is a relationship driven business. Hence, in my opinion I do see more boutique firms starting up. Good news: more potential opportunities. Good news/ bad news: BB might loose quite a few 'stars' and will have to hire more analyst. (turnover is high in this industry) A lot of talent will move around and settle down where it seems profitable; supply and demand.

    Conclusion: the industry will be volatile for the coming years. However, it will start to make progress in the long term. People joining the industry as well as the ones leaving it will always appreciate what it has to offer. Make the most of it and create something bigger and better out of it. Perfect example: TechBanking.

    Case Closed, have a nice day.

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