WUSTL vs. U Rochester Simon MSF (2017 intake)
I am an international student, and I have been admitted to WUSTL MS Finance (Quantitative track) and U Rochester Simon MSF. Both programs have given me some funding (25% from WUSTL and 40% from Simon).
Both are 17-month programs and I would like to do a summer internship in BB IBD or Asset Management company (e.g. JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, BlackRock, Putnam, Fidelity). My preferred location is NorthEast, i.e. Boston and New York.
For me, the main distinction is in the program content, since WUSTL MSF (Q) is very quantitative including courses such as Stochastic Finance, math.fin and advanced credit risk modelling, whereas U Rochester MSF seems to be more generalist and with fewer electives.
I have 2 questions, and I would like people who REALLY KNOW from their experience to help me with the choice between these two schools.
1) Which of the two will place better in Boston/ NYC in BB IB or large AM company? Please base your answer on what you know, heard, or have experienced, and do not make inference from the stats on the schools' websites, as they tend to be flawed.
2) Would you say that for an international student without any prior work experience in finance, it would be better to choose a program which is more quantitative, such as WUSTL? They have a lot of programming and math in comparison with U Rochester.
Thanks a lot!
If the choice is ever between a quantitative course and another less quantitative course, then assuming all other things equal… pick the quantitative course!
Hi smunger8! Thanks for your reply. Could you please elaborate on this point? Why would you argue that a quantitative curriculum (WUSTL) would be better over a less quantitative one (U Rochester)? What if I do not plan to pursue a quant career in the near future? As an international, I would like to first try myself in IBD, then continue in AM probably.
source, MSF alum in one and couple friends in another. 1. internationals are alive/dead, with/out STEM. 2, location makes a big difference, but honestly I feel Rochester wouldn't have much advantage except alumni coverage. Wustl has alumni loyalists but low in quantity. Looks like MIT is a slam dunk that you don't have, so yea.
Hi whattherock! Thanks for your input. Actually, both WUSTL MSF(Q) and Simon MSF are STEM-designated, since Simon's MSF received this status around December 2016. So, both programs are STEM. 1. In terms of location, which one is a nicer place? I heard St. Louis is dangerous, while Rochester is too boring. 2. In regards to alumni coverage, do you mean the opportunities that alumni connections will provide are beter in Rochester? Since I want to secure a summer internship in IBD in NorthEast (NYC, Boston area), would you say that U Rochester wins in this case?
neither is really true. not dangerous if not acting stupid and not boring if you are working hard inside NYC
alumni wise, you have to do the dirty work. I dont have the solid words as I never wanted IB or Northeast/NYC location.
Strong answer ^above to point 1 - STEM is what gets internationals into the US, unless of course you are doing a top 10 to perhaps 15 ranked MBA or some other Ivy League degree.
WUSTL is better, but it still will be hard to get into IB/AM at such big names, especially in the Northeast. So, be ready)
Hey Guys,
I too am an international and have an admit from WUSTL MSF Corp Fin ( Non Stem) and Simon MSF ( STEM). Can someone help me breakdown the decision?
My consideration:
I'm more inclined to Wustl because of the better brand and it being a top 4 MSF. But the non stem factor is disconcerting
what's your profile?
can u plz share ur profile
What's your decision? Im international kid as well, trying to decide from WUSTL MSFQ and SMU MSF (Dallas). SMU's about to get the STEM as well for its MSF and with its location, it kinda complicates the pick. Any thoughts?
WUSTL MS Corp Fin vs Rochester MSF for International Student (Originally Posted: 12/16/2017)
I received offers from both schools starting in July 2018. I am debating which one is a better choice. I am an international student from Asia with an undergrad degree from top 50 US school. My primary goal after graduation is IB in NYC. The main concern for me is that: first, WashU is not STEM, but Rochester is. Second, WashU places mostly in Midwest. (STEM allows student to stay 3 years instead of 1 year without sponsorship) Comparisons: WashU: small cohort size of around 30~40 with 10~15% international students, stronger brand name, curriculum better for IB, non-STEM. cheaper(60K tuition) Rochester: HUGE size of around 150 with a lot international, less strong name, curriculum better for Cop Fin job, STEM, a lot more expensive (77K)
Any insight into choosing between schools, or what I need to be aware of would be appreciated. Thank you!
update: Rochester 10% scholarship; Brandeis Accelerated MAIEF with 30K scholarship
1) NYC IB as an international from either school will be tough.
2) WUSTL is the "better" program, but that isn't an absolute.
3) Rochester is STEM which is very important, especially now for internationals.
4) Both programs are arguably far from NYC. Rochester is in the middle of no where and you'd have to take a 4-5 hour bus to get to NYC. That or fly which is going to be cost prohibitive and the same from either school.
IMO, if you could do their MSF Q track you could get STEM from WUSTL. You'd save money, have a better program, the Q track would give you career track optionality and you could target Chicago while in school and then pivot to NYC post graduation.
Rochester would be the choice if you were planning on going back home as the school is well known outside of the US.
If you were a domestic student, I would say WUSTL all day. Being international, I place a lot of value on STEM.
I agree with those u said above. I actually don't know if I can switch to Q -track. In terms of networking, I think either way I'll do networking trip to NYC. Thanks for the help!
@cl2908" 2018 as well, it's possible to jump into Q track from Corp fin from what I know. Im on the situation picking from WUSTL MSFQ and SMU MSF(Dallas). Both with STEM right now.
Any thoughts about SMU MSF? the guy who recommended me this program rejected Simon years ago, well at that time it was non-STEM. don't know why kids all comparing with Rochester these days..
I actually don't know much about SMU. If I were you, I'll pick WUSTL. Their Q-track seems to place pretty well.
NONE
Get into the Qtrack at WUSTL but elect corpfin courses. You'll get a good education at either school but WUSTL will give you a better shot at banking in NY. You could always do the BVAL NY --> NY IB route. It's fairly common and the Big 4 sponsor.
thanks man. Good call on the courses selection. anyways, Im gonna choose wustl, I think it would benefit more in the long term.
WashU vs Simon (Originally Posted: 03/12/2017)
Hey Guys,
I too am an international and have an admit from WUSTL MSF Corp Fin ( Non Stem) and Simon MSF ( STEM). Can someone help me breakdown the decision?
My consideration:
Class size WUSTL - 25, Simon - 180+ Stem: WUSTL - non STEM , Simon - STEM Costs: similar for both Recruitment at university: WUSTL has far more companies coming for OCR and Simon has virtually none. I'm more inclined to Wustl because of the better brand and it being a top 4 MSF. But the non stem factor is disconcerting
if I was you - wustl for U.S. placement (anywhere), Simon for NYC placement. near 100% placement vs. STEM is a tough call, as I can understand. But otherwise, they're very similar.
As an international does it not make sense to take the STEM program to avoid Visa issues for 3 years atleast? Just looking at it from an ROI perspective.
And what's the difference between the brand names, Olin vs Simon?
This is real dumb. Besides it's stupid to take such an attitude unless you rather be left alone! Thanks. If I picked Simon you can also say you get nowhere for interview without much on-campus employers?? and then your ROI is 0 if you cant find a job?
For a bit of a different perspective... I applied and was accepted into both of these programs myself last year, and was born and raised in Rochester, NY. However, I ended up getting my MSF in Boston since I had moved there for undergrad and was already somewhat established.
Choosing between WUSTL and Simon is tough, as others have already mentioned. From a career search perspective, if you go to Simon you will do a lot of traveling to NYC. I have friends that did the Simon program and said on-campus recruiting and local job opportunities were minimal. Getting to NYC from Rochester is also difficult, as there are no direct trains or buses, and driving takes 6+ hours. The easiest way is to fly, but that can get expensive if the company is not covering your travel for an interview. I do know Simon has the option to add a 6-month internship to the program, which can be immensely helpful, so that's something to consider as it may make up for the disadvantaged location of the school.
I would say the brand names are about equal (IMO), but if more employers are making their way to WUSTL based on its location and reputation, I would consider that a big advantage over Simon. WUSTL also has four tracks you can take in the MSF program, including one quantitative-intensive track. Do you know which one you're interested in? I think either program will be able to give you a good qualitative and quantitative base, but it's worth exploring any and all options.
Either program should offer a good return on your investment, though you may need to work harder at Simon to secure full-time employment. Hopefully some of this has been helpful, but please feel free reach out if you have any more questions.
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