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volcker rule
 

Have banks gotten rid of their prop desks yet?

CollegeStudent's picture
CollegeStudent
     
 
(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
 on 2/18/13 at 8:10pm

There's been discussions on this but all of them are pretty dated now. Have the bulge bracket banks already gotten rid of their prop desks? Or have they figured out a way to skirt around the Volcker rule?

  • 4
     

Rethinking Occupy Wall Street

hdavid57's picture
hdavid57
      O
 
(Senior Orangutan, 439
 
Points)
 on 5/15/12 at 6:00am
99.JPG

I thought of Alexis Goldstein as just another disgruntled employee from the world of finance, but she’s not. She had worked for Morgan Stanley, Deutsche Bank, and elsewhere, and is now a member of the Occupy Wall Street movement. Ms Goldstein shares her distaste for Wall Street and her devotion to the OWS movement in an article she recently wrote for n+1 Magazine:
 

It is hard to contrast the joy of community I feel at Occupy Wall Street with the isolation I felt on Wall Street. It’s hard because I cannot think of two more disparate cultures. Wall Street believes in, and practices, a culture of scarcity. This breeds hoarding, distrust, and competition. As near as I can tell, Occupy Wall Street believes in plenty. This breeds sharing, trust, and cooperation. On Wall Street, everyone was my competitor. They’d help me only if it helped them. At Occupy Wall Street, I am offered food, warmth, and support, because it’s the right thing to do, and because joy breeds joy. 

I was privileged enough to make it in the door on Wall Street, and to get bonuses during my time there. But I never felt as fortunate, or joyful, as I did the night after the eviction of Occupy Wall Street from Liberty Square, when we had our first post-raid General Assembly. When the thousands of supporters who filled the park necessitated three waves of the people’s mic. When our voices together echoed not just down the park, but up into the sky as the buildings caused the sound to ricochet off their glass walls. 


One glaring question is not addressed in Ms. Goldstein’s article: What does the Occupy Wall Street movement believe in? What are its core principles?

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Not Too Big to Fail

hdavid57's picture
hdavid57
      O
 
(Senior Orangutan, 439
 
Points)
 on 5/4/12 at 8:04am
Volcker.jpg

On the surface, the Volcker rule makes sense. The government should not let the banks run free, doing whatever they wish to do, endangering other people's money with risky proprietary trades that are made with the expectation that they, the federal government, will swoop in and save the day when those trades don't work out. The notion that banks should be deregulated when things go well and regulated when the bad debt of these financial institutions is raging out of control is both inconsistent and disingenuous.

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Bruno Iksil: Lord Voldemort

SaucyBacon85's picture
SaucyBacon85
      CO
 
(Senior Baboon, 236
 
Points)
 on 4/10/12 at 4:00am
Voldemont

JPM's Bruno Iksil is cooking up a storm over the large credit derivative positions he's taking. Some say his bets violate the Volcker rule and are shifting the entire index.

Bloomberg:

The trader became such a big client of credit-derivatives dealers that some started calling him Voldemort, the Harry Potter book-series villain so powerful he simply was referred to as “He Who Must Not Be Named,” said one fund manager

But as this is in London, the Volcker rule doesn't apply. Does this put the US at a disavantage if the Volcker rule is implemented? Are Iksil's bets ethical? Or are they just downright stupid? Rogue-trader in the making?

I'm only a trader on my personal account and I'm interested in knowing more about this. Anyone on this market?

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Volcker Rule Against the Ropes

Edmundo Braverman's picture
Edmundo Braverman
      ST
 
 
(Human, 14,336
 
Points)
 on 3/27/12 at 8:00am
paul-volcker.jpg

I guess it was a just a matter of time (and hundreds of millions of lobbying dollars), but now that the laser focus on banker misdeeds seems to be waning, lawmakers are signalling their willingness to dump the Volcker Rule forbidding prop trading at investment banks. So I guess the joke's on those banks who've already divested their prop trading arms.

Realizing they were dealing with dullards, the banking lobby dumbed their arguments down as much as possible so that Congress could understand them. They even went so far as to create the "Volcker Rule for Dummies":

The Financial Services Forum and the American Bankers Association circulated a 14-page presentation on the rule’s consequences to aides on the House and Senate banking panels. Sort of a “Volcker Rule for Dummies,” it compared Wall Street market- making to how Amazon.com Inc. manages inventory for the Christmas rush.

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What Is The Volcker Rule?

The Volcker Rule is a subsection of the Dodd-Frank act (named after former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker), which attempts to limit the risky, speculative trading activities of hedge funds and investment banks.

The Volcker Rule limits banks to only investing 3% of their total capital in prop trading and to reduce the exposure of banks to hedge funds.

Prop trading at investment banks has been particularly hard hit by the Volcker Rule, and many banks are closing or massively reducing their prop trading desks.

Related Terms

  • Capital
  • Dodd-Frank Bill
  • Hedge Fund (HF)
  •  

volcker rule

waterloomonkey's picture
waterloomonkey
      ST
 
(Senior Monkey, 88
 
Points)
 on 10/17/11 at 10:16am

will the rule apply to prop shops and hedge funds

  • 7
     

Damn, it doesn’t feel good to be a trader

Jorgé's picture
Jorgé
     
 
(Neanderthal, 2,182
 
Points)
 on 9/26/11 at 7:30pm
fawwwk

For decades, traders have been the highest paid dudes on Wall Street. Deep six-figure bonuses were once de rigueur for the mere mortals while the full-fledged masters of the universe easily went on to eclipse their CEOs and rack up eight-figure bonuses as well as the occasional mental disorder or two.

Well, that’s all in the past now. Midas wrote awhile back that trading bonuses are set to get the shaft given the current climate, but unfortunately, that’s way better than what’s about to happen:

U.S. banks would have to change the way they compensate traders involved in market-making activities under one of the proposed restrictions of the so-called Volcker rule, according to a draft circulating among regulators.

The rule, which aims to ban most proprietary trading by banks with federally insured deposits, would exempt trades related to market-making as long as the activity met at least seven standards, or principles. One principle would be that traders get paid from fees and the spread of the transactions rather than the appreciation or profit from their positions, according to a copy of the draft reviewed by Bloomberg News.

Sorry monkeys, but I guess you can all kiss your millionaire trader dreams good-bye.

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  • 30
     

Trader Pay No Longer Based on P&L?

Edmundo Braverman's picture
Edmundo Braverman
      ST
 
 
(Human, 14,336
 
Points)
 on 9/27/11 at 6:00am
barneyfrank4.jpg

More changes are in the offing for prop traders who specialize in making markets, and these changes are going to effect the pocketbook. In a nutshell, market makers will only be allowed to be compensated on the spread of the securities in which they make a market, and no longer on the appreciation of said securities.

These new regulations are a part of Dodd-Frank generally lumped under the Volcker Rule. While many of the bulge bracket banks have spun off (or are in the process of spinning off) their prop trading arms, these new rules will effect hundreds of Wall Street operations. If everything plays out the way it's going now, trader compensation will be based solely upon fees and commissions, and any profits on a trade will be ineligible for compensation consideration.

A forced change to pay structure “could have the effect of driving people out of the regulated industry to the unregulated industry,” said Douglas Landy, a partner at Allen & Overy LLP who once worked at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

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  • 8
     

Glencore: Goldman's worst nightmare?

Brady4MVP's picture
Brady4MVP
      HF
 
(Neanderthal, 3,158
 
Points)
 on 5/5/11 at 12:45pm
gs.JPG

Interesting article on business insider about how Goldman is freaked out about the Volcker rule. Specifically, they're scared of Glencore and the threat it poses to their commodities business. Goldman is one of the 3 big BB commodities players, along with Morgan Stanley and Barclays. Because Glencore is not regulated, it can do whatever it wants with regards to leverage, prop, and compensation.

This seems to confirm Midas' post yesterday on the big commodity players.

The Real Reason Goldman Should Be Freaking

  • 27
     

The Volcker Rule - how much was prop trading really to blame?

theparadox's picture
theparadox
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 336
 
Points)
 on 3/29/11 at 2:15pm
vr.JPG

I'm sure you've all heard of the Dodd-Frank Reform Act and more importantly, the Volcker Rule that's a part of it. So, I'd like to get some thoughts from people who believe the Volcker rule will go some ways in preventing another financial crisis by limiting the amount of risk banks can take and those who believe either that the Volcker rule is too watered down or prop trading wasn't to blame in the first place.

  • 34
     

A New Witch Hunt...or is it?

Midas Mulligan Magoo's picture
Midas Mulligan Magoo
     
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,167
 
Points)
 on 11/20/10 at 3:17pm
insider trading

After three plus years of snooping around, it seems that the Federal government is ready to blow the lid off insider trading wink-and-nudge practices at some of Wall Street's biggest name institutions.

The key surrounds passing of nonpublic information by independent analysts and consultants who work for companies that provide "expert network" services to hedge funds and mutual funds.

Since this topic has in many ways become the late motif of the post-crisis financial world, I don't think anybody needs to rant on it any further...however...

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Shia LeBeouf: World's Greatest Trader

Midas Mulligan Magoo's picture
Midas Mulligan Magoo
     
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,167
 
Points)
 on 9/25/10 at 10:53am
shia

With all the new financial rules and regulations, ideas such as "honesty" and "fairness" have forcibly been added to the dog-eat-dog mixture of markets. This creates a potential hale storm of falling pianos as to what can be viewed as illegal and/or illicit in trading decisions and taken positions.

Perhaps language should have been included in the Volcker Rule to prevent stories like this one from being published.

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  • 11
     

Which hedge funds are poaching the top sell-side traders?

Brady4MVP's picture
Brady4MVP
      HF
 
(Neanderthal, 3,158
 
Points)
 on 9/3/10 at 12:06am

A lot of prop traders at bulge bracket banks are either being assigned to asset management divisions or leaving sell-side altogether to work at hedge funds. Which firms are aggressively hiring sell-side traders? I heard that Moore capital poached some bigshots from BAML; don't know about SAC Capital or Soros.

  • 4
     

YOU CAN DROP THE MATH BOOKS NOW

dazedmonk's picture
dazedmonk
      IB
 
(Senior Orangutan, 431
 
Points)
 on 9/1/10 at 12:19am

Millionari playboy prop dreams are over son...
http://blogs.barrons.com/stockstowatchtoday/2010/0...

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Hedge Funds profit from Volcker

Midas Mulligan Magoo's picture
Midas Mulligan Magoo
     
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,167
 
Points)
 on 8/9/10 at 11:57am
tradingfloor

As the populist bore that is financial regulation continues to trudge along, we have early results of predictions most of us made months ago. As proprietary trading by the major investment banks winds down, hedge funds are set to pounce on the available glut of trading talent.

In fact, the same hedge funds which were vilified as the destroyers of the American economy will now be "punished" by the Dodd-Frank Act to the tune of restocking their ranks with the best prop traders that Bulge Brackets can no longer use themselves.

Goldman, is one of the first banks attempting to protect its territory by spinning off Goldman Sachs Principal Strategies (GSPS). Others will emerge with similar plans, but don't expect it to be easy.

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Volcker Rule - Satellite Offices

daveveitch's picture
daveveitch
     
 
(Chimp, 12
 
Points)
 on 7/28/10 at 9:28pm

Hey,

I just had a quick question regarding how the Volcker rule will affect satellite offices of foreign banks. Take for example Morgan Stanley who is a bank holding company in the US. Would their HK/International offices be restricted from prop trading.

Also, do you think most of the IB's turned bank holding companies will just change their status in the near future to avoid the rule?

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The Proprietary Shuffle

Midas Mulligan Magoo's picture
Midas Mulligan Magoo
     
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,167
 
Points)
 on 7/6/10 at 12:36pm
3 card

How will the dreaded Volcker rule really effect the proprietary trading of banks on The Street? For going on two years now, we've heard nothing but how irresponsible traders have landed America in a pool of sludge along with the wee baby turtles.

"These swashbuckling financial pirates in tailor-made suits, swinging from vines with swords clenched firmly in tooth, avoiding the long arm of the law and robbing the innocent investor, must be stopped!!!", was the rhetoric of the day.

News coming out of several large banks, including Morgan and Citi , shows financial firms taking a pro-active stance which may take a large chunk out of the expected government bite.

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Are BB trading desks in a hiring freeze due to fin. regulation bill?

Brady4MVP's picture
Brady4MVP
      HF
 
(Neanderthal, 3,158
 
Points)
 on 6/15/10 at 2:25pm

We now know for a fact that a tough version of the Volcker rule will pass. And it looks like the Lincoln Amendment will pass as well, although the senator has offered to soften some of its earlier provisions.

From talking to several people at BB trading desks, it looks like this regulation is having a major effect on their hiring. One guy told me that this is a "period of maximum uncertainty" and that they're waiting to assess the full impact of this bill before hiring additional people.

I would like to hear others' thoughts and experiences on this matter.

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Financial bill will be a lot tougher than expected

Brady4MVP's picture
Brady4MVP
      HF
 
(Neanderthal, 3,158
 
Points)
 on 6/11/10 at 10:04am

Everyone on CNBC and the other business media outlets are talking about how shocked wall street is with the ongoing reconciliation hearings in congress. Instead of the financial bill becoming softer and more sensible, it has instead become more strident and anti-wall street. The Volcker Rule will certainly pass, and even scarier, the Lincoln Amendment banning swaps trading will likely pass as well. The democrats are catering to the vulgar populism of the American people. What's especially infuriating is that this "reform" bill does not even address fannie/freddie and the rating agencies.

In short, we are FUCKED. The decline of this once great capitalist nation is truly sad to witness.

  • 16
     

Volcker Rule and BB prop desks

Brady4MVP's picture
Brady4MVP
      HF
 
(Neanderthal, 3,158
 
Points)
 on 5/28/10 at 11:07am

It looks like the Volcker Rule, that bans banks from engaging in proprietary trading, will most likely pass.

Last night, I was talking to a guy at a major BB in NYC, who is an expert on the financial regulations and has testified numerous times before the Senate. He said that the most likely result of the Vocker Rule is that banks will be forced to sell off their prop-trading desk to a different firm altogether since the rule forbids them from being a subsidiary of the bank. I mentioned that I might move to a BB for a prop job, and he said i should carefully examine the Volcker Rule before accepting such a job.

My biggest concern would be to take the job, work for a few months, and then get laid off because of the stupid Volcker rule.

  • 5
     

How Reform Is a Big Win for the Street (Part 2 of 2)

Edmundo Braverman's picture
Edmundo Braverman
      ST
 
 
(Human, 14,336
 
Points)
 on 4/30/10 at 6:43am
financial-reform-now4.jpg

Sorry for the delay on this one, guys. Yesterday was pretty nuts. As promised, here are the ways I think Wall Street will benefit from the coming reforms and actually emerge stronger. But first, this all hinges on the assumption that the reform is based on some return to the Glass-Steagall Act, or the Volcker Rule, or whatever you want to call it. Obviously, if that doesn't happen all bets are off.

First, it's easy to take a dim view of the proposed reforms and look at it from a glass-half-empty perspective. This view was best articulated by Michael Barone a week ago when he pointed out that the Dodd Bill will only serve as a cash pipeline to reward the very guys who are responsible for this mess in the first place.

He has a point, and institutionalizing the notion of "Too Big To Fail" is a mistake of colossal proportions in my opinion. If you remove the very real consequence of failure from the equation, then moral hazard rules the day. There is not a single bank in this country (or any other, for that matter) whose failure today would bring an end to life as we know it.

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The Volcker Rule will suffer death by committee

Sussudio's picture
Sussudio
      O
 
(Senior Monkey, 85
 
Points)
 on 4/22/10 at 9:19pm

From Sen Dodd's senate financial reform bill:


1 SEC. 989. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE STUDY
2 ON PROPRIETARY TRADING.
3 (a) DEFINITIONS.—In this section—
4 (1) the term ‘‘covered entity’’ means—
5 (A) an insured depository institution, an
6 affiliate of an insured depository institution, a
7 bank holding company, a financial holding com8
pany, or a subsidiary of a bank holding com9
pany or a financial holding company, as those
10 terms are defined in the Bank Holding Com11
pany Act of 1956 (12 U.S.C. 1841 et seq.); and
12 (B) any other entity, as the Comptroller
13 General of the United States may determine;
14 and
15 (2) the term ‘‘proprietary trading’’ means the
16 act of a covered entity investing as a principal in se
17curities, commodities, derivatives, hedge funds, pri
18vate equity firms, or such other financial products or
19 entities as the Comptroller General may determine.
20 (b) STUDY.—
21 (1) IN GENERAL.—The Comptroller General of
22 the United States shall conduct a study regarding
23 the risks and conflicts associated with proprietary
24 trading by and within covered entities, including an

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Financial reform bill will destroy big banks

Derivatives's picture
Derivatives
      ST
 
(Orangutan, 292
 
Points)
 on 4/20/10 at 11:18am
collapsed.JPG

If this financial bill passes in its current form, the bulge bracket banks are basically f*cked. The Volcker rule would prevent banks from engaging in prop trading or investing in hedge funds and PE firms. JP Morgan is already planning to sell Highbridge. And Goldman Sachs will also be decimated.

For the traders at bulge bracket banks, you guys should start considering new careers. The trading desks will be obliterated if this passes.

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