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I worked on Wall Street. I had a great career on Wall Street. But it could have been even better.
As I’m sure most of you have found out by now, Wall Street is populated with these standard-issue guys, with identical haircuts and clothes, identical educational backgrounds, even growing up in the same handful of towns around the Tri-State area. Wall Street is supposedly populated with all these swashbuckling risk-takers, but when it comes to hiring, they don’t take any risks at all. They do the same thing they have been doing for decades. They hire what they know.
There are, of course, exceptions to that rule (like me), but they are exceedingly rare. Why take a chance on unknown quantity X, when they can get standard-issue guy who walks, talks, looks, and acts the part? Maybe unknown quantity X can do the job better, but at least we know standard-issue guy can do the job.
So back in 2000, Lehman Brothers takes a risk, takes a chance on me, and from a strictly P&L standpoint, they made out like bandits. I made, by my estimate, about $150-$200 million for the firm over seven years, and I was paid a fraction of that. But I was not standard-issue Wall Street. I wore crappy Mens Wearhouse suits, sometimes with holes in them. I wore shirts that were colors other than blue or white. Most of the time, I shaved my head. I did not look or act the part.
I am very lucky, because
looking or acting the part counts for a lot in these organizations, and at most places, I would have been fired. But still, there were consequences. Because I did not look or act the part, I’m guessing that my behavior cost me about $1 million cumulatively over my time at Lehman Brothers. Lehman, despite being swashbuckling risk-takers, was a very conformist place. Joe Gregory used to wear the same thing to work every day: Charcoal two-button suit, white shirt, red tie. Every day. Like the rest of the Street, Lehman had a short-lived experiment with business casual, from 1999-2002, but even during the business casual days, everyone wore the same thing. Blue shirt with khakis.
I grew up a musician (was voted “Class Musician” in high school) and went to a school with a vibrant visual and performing arts program, and I had long hair and punk-ass clothes and I ran around with a bunch of punk-ass artists and musicians. My identity was completely wrapped up in not conforming. It’s pretty amazing that I ended up in finance at all. So in my late twenties, I really hadn’t matured one bit, and I was pretty wrapped up in being my usual nonconformist self, without realizing that this was a career-limiting move.
So this is the point in the story where I ask myself, what the fuck was my problem? Look, this is the reality of the situation. If you want to get paid a lot of money, if you want to be management, then you have to dress and look and act a way that conveys that you have self-control and good judgment and all the personal qualities that make good managers. A managing director doesn’t get into burrito-eating contests and drink jumbo Jamba Juice green tea smoothies with six energy shots in them. This might all seem terribly obvious, but it was not obvious to me at the time. And I’m not alone—some folks get very concerned about not being a sellout, without taking into consideration that there is a hell of a lot of money in being a sellout.
Sometimes I think I am still hard-wired to be that punk-ass kid with the long hair, because here I am at age 40 with long hair again and Eurotrash shirts and a manicured goatee, and sure, things have worked out for the best, I get to be artist-writer guy and DJ in clubs and ride a motorcycle, but I’d be lying if I told you that there isn’t a part of me that wonders how things would have turned out if I had spent more than $30 on a tie.
Coulda shoulda woulda. Besides, I am happy.
Good post, well written. I think in all areas of life, as far as conformity goes, there is a difference between simple compliance and a deeper internalization of various behaviors and values. As long as the conformity doesn't go past prudent surface-level compliance, it can still be okay. You can still do what needs to be done while being the motorcycle-riding thrill seeker privately. There is no need to broadcast your individuality to those who will not value it.
Well said sir.
A well written reply to a well written post. Kudos.
Great post. I struggle with this issue of surface level compliance as well, as I do not have the "standard-issue guy" background. However being surrounded by it all the time has numbed me to it in a way. Like stated before this is surface level compliance rather than personal identity. I sometimes step back and take a look at myself when out and say how am I now any different than the rest of the guys here?........And sometimes I really don't have an answer.
Jared! Welcome back, we believed you lost!
Everyone has that urge to break apart and scream, do something different. This is why we have hobbies (awesome that you're a DJ, I know you love the electronica stuff). That's why heavy metal is so popular.
Is this more meritocratic on the buyside?
So much respect for you man. In my eyes, there are 2 schools of thought on how to be happy. One is to find a career that makes a lot of money, conform, and find a way to love it. The other is to do what you love in the first place, and find a way to make money and make a living off it. Number 2 is riskier but if you hit it big, these people are the happiest ones who make it to the top. You sound upset that you may have been able to make a little more money had you sold out a bit more... fuck that. I would give my left arm to make as much money as you did, while still being able to wear $30 ties and old shirts. You're very lucky. I'll echo what people above me have said though, that there are different levels of conformity and it's possible to "play the part" while still acting like a goof outside of work. Sometimes I wonder how people can go through life knowing there are 1,000,000 people exactly like them.
This post is case in point why I would probably kill myself after two weeks of working at an investment bank.
I'm just curious what is it that you do for a living, considering this is a forum titled 'wallstreetoasis'
You must be new here...
I know you're addressing a larger issue of conformity but it probably would've been better served providing a wider variety of examples than simple dress. One can wear acceptable dress to work while still maintaining a personality in your style, one just has to conform to the general level of dress acceptable and work within that space. For example, a simple two-button charcoal suit can come in a wide variety of colors and textures, cuts and fits. And while you can't go all out with like a salmon colored button down there are certainly a wider variety of options than the same shades of white and blue...
You sure like to live dangerously.
The fuck did I just read?
try reading it again, maybe you'll get it the second time around...
The way you dress is more or less symptomatic of your attitude. I would say the limiting factor was more likely the latter, rather than the former.
Ugh. This is the worst audience for this article. Too many kids on here that remind me of college - taking business entrepreneur classes and romanticizing being your own boss, doing things "your way" etc.
The fact of the matter is that, with all due respect, OP was simply trying to stick it to the man by purposely not caring about spending $60 instead of $30 on a tie and not wearing blue or white or subtle pattern shirts.
Lets not pretend like wearing simple and traditional professional clothing needs to be expensive AT ALL: - white and blue slim fit Charles Thrywitt shirts $40 - Jos a bank signature gold suit at 75% off once a month $275 - tailor to make it look sharp as hell $60 - dress socks from TJ Maxx $5 - Conservative, non clunky johnston and murphy captoes from discounter (DSW) $100 - belt $40
TOTAL: $515 And the shoes and belt can be worn everyday with additional outfits costing $385 each. Even shittier clothes will cost the same if you don't know where to look.
If you don't want to wear professional business clothes then don't. And don't work in a fucking professional environment.
Otherwise get well fitting clothes and search for discounts. MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE. It's being stubborn and thinking you are entitled to wear whatever the fuk you want even when it's clear what is expected of you get paid.
At the end of the day, what OP did was stupid. And he knows it. Giving up $1mm over am having a rebel attitude is idiotic. And he knew what needed to do after say 1 year of working there. ALL ANALYST dress like sht. then you learn and adjust. Some spend a lot, others look just as good in the same clothes found on sale, your choice. Not wearing a COLOR is a choice, and choices for success are white, blue, and subtle patterns.
But listen kids, don't start romanticizing anything here. If you want to treat work like a less than professional place.... If you want to treat it like a fashion show.... Or if you simply want to make a statement, then do it. Just don't expect anyone to have as much respect for you as they would if you respect the PROCESS. No one is telling you how to dress outside the office are they?
Btw Sell out is a term people use but in reality they just need to grow up, need to stop letting their job define EVERY aspect of their lives, and/or need to come to term that they are in the wrong place. What pisses me off is when these same idiots accuse someone else of selling out. Guess what? I like suits and I feel confident wearing them. They fit well and are chosen to fit my frame, so they are also comfortable. I'm not a sell out. You're just a jealous loser who is mad that someone found a way to being their personality/taste and make it harmonize with work all while making a lot of money.
Misleading title, haha
Idk why but I read this with Jim Romes voice in my head. Good post, well written.
@"Jared Dillian" I have bad news, I went and checked the files and it seems it actually cost you closer to $4 million. That's pre-RSU allocation and pre-tax if that makes you feel better.
LOLLLL
I joined this forum to make just one post, but this is too good.
The issue of conformity is not just the Wall Street thing. In the Valley, the suit might get you fired. At a start-up, you might get fired for wearing a suit as well.
I think Jared's point is you have to find your people and it might take some time.
On the buy side nobody gives a shit what you wear. I only wear a tie when a client is in the office. I agree with one of the the posters above, I could never deal with the conformity of banking. All the the justification happening in this thread makes me laugh though. I heard an interesting comment from an IR guy recently, something to the tune of the most casually dressed person in a meeting is usually the one in charge.
@proforma, that depends on how people perceive you, which is indeed not just limited to what you are wearing. However if your the junior analyst who can't dress properly it will impact your career sooner or later. There's nothing wrong with more individual clothing styles as long as they appear professional. In your work you are supposed to be very focused on detail and accurate in what you say and what you do. If you dress like you dont give a s***t, then people will occasionally have the impression that you approach your work in the same fashion. Whether that's true or not.
Great article!!
People first judge you based on how you look, then based on how you sound and most have made up their minds before they hear what you have to say. Being an outsider/risk-taker/innovator only works if you first have mastered the standard route. Too bad I didn't know or care about this 20 years ago.
I find casual days to be even more conformist than regular days. But that $30-tie might have made a difference. Probably not though. Anyway. Enjoy being happy my friend.
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