Currently an analyst in a mining IB at a boutique in Vancouver, hoping to move to Toronto or the U.S long term and stick with the mining industry. Any thoughts on specific big 5 / BB in Toronto? Any real players in the U.S?
A couple years ago, NBF hired a bunch of mining bankers from Scotia who I think were all Toronto based, that could be what they are referring to about Scotia. Not exactly sure what has happened to Scotia mining since then but anecdotally I do not see them as an advisor as often as some of the other bigger Canadian banks.
To address some of the OP's other points:
The North American mining IB opportunities in the US are not very good as most of the big IB players are Canada based (specifically Toronto and maybe Vancouver to an extent), this includes the Canadian banks like the Big 5, NBF and Canaccord as well as certain US banks who I think for the most part have Canadian offices
Depending on the reputation/size of your boutique, it might be tough moving to a Big 5, NBF, etc. in Toronto if you boutique is smaller/is not well know. If your boutique is smaller, it might be easier to go to a Toronto boutique like Haywood, SCP Resource Finance, Cormark, Eight Capital or Maxit who all have decent exposure to mining IB but will probably be easier to lateral to
These places work on smaller deals generally and might be heavier on the junior mining financing side, but because of that it is probably is easier to get to (though I also don't know how often these places hire people too).
I think all of those factors will vary depending on the place but I tried to make some broad generalizations listed below. In general though if you are trying to optimize for the biggest deals, generally consistent deal flow, highest comp and best exits, I would recommend going with the Big 5, NBF or the US banks (vs. the independents).
Deal Flow
Canaccord probably has the best deal flow of the independents as it is generally the largest independent in Canada (i.e. largest team, more resources, offices around the world, etc.) and as such will likely service bigger clients/deal sizes and have more consistent deal flow than the other places
For example, you might see Canaccord work on a $1B+ deal like the Yamana/Agnico/Pan American transaction which you wouldn't get at a Haywood or Cormark (but bigger deal sizes do not always mean better, etc.). I will say that Canaccord does not often do $1B+ deals as those are less common for them
Canaccord also likely has a better mix of M&A vs. financing deals whereas some of the independents are more heavy on the financing work for junior mining companies
In general a lot of mining deal flow is based on metal prices, so generally when metal prices are higher then deal activity will increase (i.e. it makes projects economics better, more people will want to invest in a "hot" sector) and the inverse is true too
For example there was a flurry of deal making as gold prices rose up to the end of the 2012's and when it decreased afterwards until 2019, deal activity was a lot more stagnant
Most main metal prices (i.e. gold, copper, etc.) are at all time highs now so that should be a positive for deal flow in the near term. We are starting to see a lot of major mining companies look to get bigger exposure to battery related metals like copper (i.e. BHP's takeover attempt of Anglo American, Rio Tinto takeover of Turquoise Hill, Teck Resources failed separation of its copper vs. coal business, Barrick re-negotiating to get Reko Diq back in development, etc.)
Compensation
Comp at the independents on average is likely lower then what you would get at the Big 5, NBF or the US banks
I think Canaccord probably has the highest comp on average vs. the other independents but it will depend on the year/deal flow
In general though, comp at a lot of these places will be highly dependent on deal flow as I think a lot of these places operate on an "eat what you kill" basis
Put differently, if one of these independents has an amazing year, your bonus will likely be very good, but the inverse is also true too
I am guessing that the comp for junior employees are probably a bit more insulated to swings in the business where you will get less of the upside but also not be as exposed to the downside. However I think this is probably dependent on the place and applies more to the bigger places
I will also say that some of the senior folks at these independent shops have made a lot of money as most of these places are not publicly traded such that the profit sharing is more favourable. For example I would not be surprised if some of the MD's at like Eight Capital made more than most Big 5 MD's during the cannabis boom in 2019-2021
Culture
I have never worked at any of these places so I can not really comment on what it's like there
I will note that I think a lot of these places are pretty lean, meaning their teams are smaller. I can imagine that there could be deals where it is just a MD with either 1 associate or analyst, which could be good from a learning experience
National poached all of Scotia some time ago and has decent deal flow and good hours.
However, despite the notoriety, no group in North America comes close to BMO M&M. Boutiques and some other shops may get on the absolutely massive deals (because those are more M&A than technically mining focused), but BMO really punches above it’s weight and stands far apart from any other mining shop in Toronto.
RBC mining is the most dog shit team I’ve ever come across. The 2 VPs are the biggest dorks on Bay Street and the platform is just pitching and wearing ties.
BMO M&M is undisputedly the best group in NA. The culture post firing has (reportedly, I’m not at BMO) been radio silence as people are too scared to speak. Still as sweaty as it ever was.
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BMO is the top in NA. I’d imagine you’d be able to infer a lot of other folks from league tables for mining in your pitch decks
Do you have views on any other firms? I'm weary of BMO's culture and don't want to burn out prematurely
Probably CIBC and then National Bank for mining. Scotia’s team has kind of fallen apart, and RBC has not had a strong mining team for some time.
The Scotia Toronto team?
A couple years ago, NBF hired a bunch of mining bankers from Scotia who I think were all Toronto based, that could be what they are referring to about Scotia. Not exactly sure what has happened to Scotia mining since then but anecdotally I do not see them as an advisor as often as some of the other bigger Canadian banks.
To address some of the OP's other points:
How does an independent like Canaccord/Cormark stack up against the big 5 and National? In terms of deal flow, comp, culture, etc.
I think all of those factors will vary depending on the place but I tried to make some broad generalizations listed below. In general though if you are trying to optimize for the biggest deals, generally consistent deal flow, highest comp and best exits, I would recommend going with the Big 5, NBF or the US banks (vs. the independents).
Deal Flow
Compensation
Culture
BMO is hard-working but manageable, and take my word for it, the worst of the culture is gone with the recent culling.
Scotia / CIBC / NBF suck lol, BMO is #1
CIBC was great, NBF had its time for a bit too
National poached all of Scotia some time ago and has decent deal flow and good hours.
However, despite the notoriety, no group in North America comes close to BMO M&M. Boutiques and some other shops may get on the absolutely massive deals (because those are more M&A than technically mining focused), but BMO really punches above it’s weight and stands far apart from any other mining shop in Toronto.
RBC mining is the most dog shit team I’ve ever come across. The 2 VPs are the biggest dorks on Bay Street and the platform is just pitching and wearing ties.
100%
Friend interned there and developed health problems lol
BMO M&M is undisputedly the best group in NA. The culture post firing has (reportedly, I’m not at BMO) been radio silence as people are too scared to speak. Still as sweaty as it ever was.
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