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Don't work at a job you want to do in the future because you want to do the job in the future. Makes sense.
I honestly don't think this sentiment is as silly as it sounds.
This situation is a bit of a catch-22. The reason that you've heard people saying things like this is because being a banking analyst is rough. The work isn't very intellectually stimulating (though most jobs aren't), and you'll be doing a lot of it, at all times of the night. As a consequence, most analysts - even those that come in hoping to do banking long-term - get burned out early, which would not help your goal to continue in banking.
That said, you chances of moving on in banking are much higher if you start as an analyst. Plenty of analysts can directly promote to associate if they so choose. A bit of a predicament.
Thanks for the insight. I wonder how many analysts go off to B-School with a goal to come back into IBD.
I would think it's better to test the waters out now and see if you enjoy it - you'll experience burnout either way as an analyst or associate; the difference is as an associate, you'll have a lot more opportunity cost that comes w/ switching jobs, etc.
Banking is a marathon either way - if you can't handle the analyst program, you'll be hardpressed when your first experience as an IB associate is comparable and you have a family, huge MBA loans, etc.
Some people said the analyst stint just burns you out and is completely different from what you would do as a senior banker. So it might be better to do something else and go to top MBA after a few years and then start your banking career.
What would the alternatives be??
.
heard people with IB analyst experience tends to do well as they climb up the ladder.
IF they climb up the latter at all. Most A2As leave during their Associate years.
FWIW, A2As generally turn out a lot better at elite boutiques than at the BBs.
A lot of great comments ITT. (Note: I am not a banker).
If you are interested then hit the ground running through internships and right out of college. I personally don't understand why any individual would want to live as a banker but to each their own.
I also agree w/ b-school comments. I currently see b-school only as a way to "rebrand" yourself for a different career path (I hear Harvard works differently). If I want to keep on doing what I'm doing and have the background/experience then b-school makes absolutely no sense (Banking/Trading/Asset Mgmt). I hear it's a bit different at F500 companies though since they want some kind of brand ______ .
I'll pitch in and say that more than half of the senior bankers I've spoken with didn't start in banking.
On the other hand, every single alumni who works in private equity started in banking.
Assess your motives.
The thing to remember here is that analysts who want to stay in banking, can. The issue is that no analysts want to. Part of it is the burnout, sure. But a lot more of it is that if you like corporate finance, you see that there are far more intellectually stimulating (and lucrative) careers that allow you to use those skills (pe/hf).
Associates, on the other hand, tend to face more limited options, and by virtue of being older, typically have less flexibility to just say 'fuck this i hate my life i'm quitting' (because of spouses and toddlers).
If you can go into banking as an analyst, I'd say that's definitely the time to do it. If you really think that being a senior banker seems like a rewarding career at that point, you can figure out how to make it happen. More likely, you will be like 100% of my banking class (at my BB, there is literally nobody left from my class) and decide to go where the grass is greener.
Did any of your co-workers at BB think about the job security in IBD compared to PE/HF? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like once you lose your job in PE post MBA or HF, it's difficult to find a similar job that pays just as well. Whereas I "think" if you get laid off as a VP at BAML it's quite easy to get another job at a bank that pays just as much. Also- this is more geared towards PE, but since it's really tough to get into PE post MBA, there's a good chance you might just end up coming back to banking after wasting a couple of years. What do you think?
the American experience is quite different from Europe. Most American analysts go for MBAs and then go elsewhere or returns as Associates.
The issue is that many people prefer to start off as associates coming from consulting because Associate is definitely more enjoyable than being an Analyst. The tradeoff between growing into an Associate from A1 versus being a consultant and then MBA Associate is the slightly lower consulting salary versus MUCH better work life balance in consulting.
I personally think though, that if you cannot stand the job as an analyst, you probably wont become a huge fan later on, because the essence of it does not change until you make VP.
working as an analyst as opposed to the MBA associate route gives you much more technical knowledge and experienced analysts often find MBA associates to be hard to work with as they essentially have to learn quite a lot of the basics that 3rd year analysts would already know.
Being an analyst is as tough as it gets -- agreed. But being an associate isn't all fun and games either. I see my associates in on weekends all the time and they still are eating dinner with the scum analysts most nights. One downside of going analyst-->associate is that many Former-analyst associates still act like analysts (doing to much of the technical stuff, not delegating enough), which sucks for them.Then again, some fresh-from-Wharton/HBS/Stanford Associates are completely out of touch and no one likes to do work for them.
Oh well, I guess you win some you lose some... As logs as the outcome is income.
To expand on this, if you go A-A, the senior bankers "love" you - meaning they have MUCH higher expectations of you, will overstaff you, and will tear you apart much more often than the idiot straight out of bschool. Most of the "upside" of being an associate is that you can't do analyst work and aren't asked to. If you take the promote, you'll be doing analyst work and associate work. You may end up ranking higher, but you may also end up burning out or spending too much time doing analyst work (that the seniors implicitly expect you to do) which could make you actually rank lower than someone with less of the hardcore banking skillset than you have. I've seen this happen.
Although I agree that this happens, in my experience it's usually because the Associate fails at delegating rather than the senior bankers pressuring him to do all the work himself.
Interesting. What about if someone comes in from a M7 MBA and did a 2 year analyst stint pre-MBA? Are they treated similar as the A-A promotes?
And I don't know of anyone who does B-School after 2yrs as an analyst, unless they wan to transition to something completely different. Even then, they're probably wasting their money.
I've met a few people that have done analyst stint at MM and went to H/S/W and came back to banking. I think there was a thread comparing A2A vs. doing MBA in between, and I *think the general consensus was MBA might pay off in the long run because of 1)pedigree (if non or semi-target) 2)network 3)well-roundedness and 4) career protection if shit happens and you get fired. Why do you think it's a crazy idea?
Who cares about pedigree if you're going to have the same job before and after the insertion of the pedigree?? $500k+ in opportunity costs is a lot to pay for "career protection" and "well-roundedness".
What about preftige?
Very good point Northsider. Just curious, what kind of jobs do you think are available for a Investment Banking VP outside of IBD if he/she gets laid off or decides to call it quits? Corp Dev management level at F500 maybe?
Most bankers I've seen leave at the VP/A3 level are now in corp dev or strategy at a F500.
AsianMonky, I really want to help you out here, and because I care I want to try to explain this more fully than I did above. This is the reaction any analyst who has ever worked in banking has when you say you want to leave banking for business school then come back as a post b school associate...
Allow me to list the potential downsides of going with this approach...
You certainly won't be...
Rather you will probably realize that you just attended one of the best business schools in the country. Now, when a summer analyst asks you if depreciation is "non cash" you're going to be like...
Within 2 months on the job...
After all that time spent around those motivated overachievers over the past two years when you come back to the desk and some VP who was a first year associate when you were a senior analyst will be asking you to "scrub" the analyst's comps to make sure they are correct... What you will want to say is probably...
But since you re-upped on $150k in debt in order to take that two year vacation, allowing Steve to move three levels above you as opposed to just one. You will realize that you not only desperately need this job, but you have to do everything in your power to maximize your bonus, including sucking up to Steve and staying till 4am to check comps. So your answer is going to be...
Eventually you will have an epiphany while ordering seamless one night...
It will be one of those nights when you pretend to have an internal struggle between ordering Just Salad and Bon Chon, but deep down... You knew it was always going to be Bon Chon... Then you will descend into ritualistic self-loathing while the eager beaver first year analyst from Amherst sitting two cubes away from you is unknowingly mis-linking all of the inputs to the model you were up late last night setting up... You will take a look at the carnage that used to be your perfectly formatted sheet... The one she naturally forgot to save a new version of... And even though you will restrain yourself (thank goodness for those Effective Conflict Resolution classes at Wharton), deep down your soul will be doing this...
Questioning the meaning of your current existence you will sit in front of your computer, dejected and dumbfounded by the meaninglessness of everything you are currently doing and you will whisper...
You will then likely begin to doubt your decision...
And you will remember the words of the inspiring professors in your MBA program...
At that point in time you will need a little bit of a pep talk, so you will turn to WSO, expecting something like the below...
Unfortunately you will probably be met with something more like this...
You could turn to your friends from b school to for a sympathetic ear... Except they might not be able to take your call right away because they decided to start the next Twitter and are currently a bit busy...
And you will be all like...
But luckily, you posted this question on WSO before going down that path, so we were able to be like...
And now you're all like...
You are welcome for the assistance in averting this potential disaster...
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