Heavy boozing to moderate boozing?

Well guys, I think I am starting to realize that going through 10+ liters of Bombay Sapphire per week is probably not producing the best outcomes for me. Has anyone here ever gone from heavy drinker to moderate drinker? If so, how? I would like to be able to pull that off, but my guess is that it's all or nothing for me.

Discuss.

 

A little preamble, I was living abroad and my circle was mainly moderately heavy social drinkers, lots of dinner parties and going out, the culture also happened to be wine goes with everything. It worked out to being 5-7ish glasses of wine a day and sometimes cocktails were thrown into the mix. Bleh, just burned me out of it.

Basically I just dropped it cold. Unfortunately it's unavoidable if you're social so when everyone was getting drinks from the host I'd just ask to start with a big glass of water and then just never followed back up for the wine or cocktail. When you sit down at the table during a dinner party it's a lost cause so I'd just limit myself to one glass and lots of water. On my own completely cold, but I drank a shitload (ten shitloads) of sparkling water, diet coke and coffee. It wasn't about an urge or anything like that, just substituting those for when I would normally drink wine and I was working out a lot so I tried to stay as hydrated as possible. Now I'm not opposed to drinking or anything like that, but I don't seek it out either.

 
ArcherVice:

A little preamble, I was living abroad and my circle was mainly moderately heavy social drinkers, lots of dinner parties and going out, the culture also happened to be wine goes with everything. It worked out to being 5-7ish glasses of wine a day and sometimes cocktails were thrown into the mix. Bleh, just burned me out of it.

sounds like a typical expat life here in buenos aires. i've had to step away from it as every day there's something to do. it's fun and all but takes a toll.. trying to keep that lifestyle only to the weekends
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Critical question*: Do you have times that you plan NOT to get drunk or 'cannot' get drunk and do so anyways? Or plan to drink in moderation but end up drinking enough to have significant, negative, unplanned repercussions? Or is it just a long run trend sort of thing?

Basically, a lot of the current research seems to indicate that if it's the latter (you just drink frequently and in large volume but with 'control'), you've got a decent chance of returning to 'social' drinking just by making a few behavior modifications i.e. get into some sort of athletic/intellectual hobby (preferably occurring with others and planned) that will substitute the time you're typically drunk.

If it's the former, the statistics say it's very unlikely that you will break the 'dependence' cycle without abstaining completely.

*Note: I don't actually want to hear your answer at all. Just trying to help.

Life's is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
 
Best Response

I might be able to provide a little insight. I was in a special operations unit in the army, and have been overseas a handful of times. I worked in a pretty dangerous job, even for the army, and unfortunately lost several very dear friends. My life became a bit of a shit show for a while, and I became an extremely high functioning alcoholic. We wouldn't drink in Afghanistan (usually), and one time when I arrived there I started getting the shakes, I figured out it was from withdrawals and realized my shit was out of control.

I started to realize that my alcohol use was a shitty band aid for a wound that no one, not even myself could see. I think I had a bit of survivors guilt and deep depression. My outlook on life turned totally bleak. So I started to replace my drinking with healthy things. I reached out a lot to the parents and wives of dead friends, which helped a lot with the grieving process. I did my best to spend more time with my family. I also thought the best thing I could do would be to live my life the best way I could to honor them for everything that they were not going to be able to do and experience. Once I stopped using alcohol as a crutch and focused more on positive things, it put me back in a position of control.

I never stopped drinking, but now I drink because I genuinely enjoy a buzz, a good beer, and an even better whiskey, not because I need to not think of anything at all. I probably have a few drinks a week, with more or less on weekends depending on the activity.

So basically, before I start to ramble, I found the best thing to do was to look for positive replacements, and put myself back in a position of control. Everyone is different, your mileage may vary, and good luck! It is often better for some people to cut it all out. It is definitely a better feeling being in control, and the fact that you are considering cutting back is obviously a great first step.

 

It is rough seeing how hard it can be for these families. There is nothing in the world like the love of a mother to her child. One of the people I keep in the most contact with is the mother of my best friend who was killed in Oct 2011. Every single day is a struggle for her to get out of bed and go on, but she makes a huge effort to try and help others. If anyone reading this is interested, one of my favorite charities of all time deals specifically with helping the families of fallen special operations soldiers receive educational benefits.

http://www.specialops.org/

 

As I've stated before and you know, I come from a big Irish Catholic family and for all of the times I like to deny the stereotype, we are a big drinking culture (I always have to rib my British friends because they like to propagate the drunk Irishman and they're just as bad if not worse, but I digress) and my family is chuck full of alcoholics, those who recovered and those who haven't. So fortunately or unfortunately, I have a ton of first hand experience with alcohol use. I'm also not a light drinker: I like to drink, I like to incorporate it into work as much as possible and I, rightly or wrongly (probably wrongly), judge my counterparts and my subordinates on their ability to hold their liquor. Sorry non-drinkers, truly.

The problem is that when you're a drinker and you've been put into, or put your self into however we'd like to say it, the situation you were in with Lehman behind you, it becomes a time when drinking is all we have. Fucking blows-you got screwed and had a lifetime of incredibly hard work fucked from you. Although my situation wasn't obviously as public or serious in a certain way, when my mother died after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, a person who not only raised me but shaped me more than anything and was taken from my life from day one diagnosis to death two months later (and I had to make the decision to pull the plug on-fun stuff-and I'm not saying this as a pity thing), it was one of those "things" that just sucks. And it got me drinking. A lot. For a couple of months, probably more. Luckily my business was somewhat on autopilot and my other sr. partner picked up my slack, but I came back from drinking pretty heavily. Still drink, but god knows not that much. And not in that bad way.

I'm not going to be able to tell you anything because you've done it all and are far beyond anything I've done. But what we, the bigger non-alcoholic drinkers do is to pull back and figure out. Luckily I had my young kids and my wife to make me aware that blaring through 10 liters of booze/wk wasn't sustainable (did it, didn't know anyone else outside of Nic Cage in Leaving Los Vegas could), and I actually appreciate that someone else can perform that feat. I know you have kids and am not sure beyond that, but hang out with your grandkids and if they don't have them, hang with your kids. They help me get over the things that make me want to drink more than the Flying Spaghetti Monster ever could. Forget about shit that happened. Enjoy the days that we all have left.

And start smoking pot. Best way to get to bed when you normally rely on booze. One drink, a smoke and a benadryl will knock out an elephant.

Good luck my friend.

And @"cayo275"'s post was far, far better than mine.

 

@archervice @"the stranger" @cayo275 @thehill @dingdong08

Thanks guys.

My issue is that I can never just have 3-4 drinks. If I have one, I drink until I blackout. This isn't me going out and getting smashed with my friends, it's usually me drinking at home alone. Even if I go out with friends, I'll have 3-4 drinks and then come home and down a bottle. I'm not sure there is a moderation solution. If there is, this is what I'm trying to determine.

 

hey DF, sorry to hear this, I had a colleague just pass from alcoholism and have a friend who's in and out of rehab right now, so I have seen from experience that the cold turkey thing can be tough.

I'd make a conscious effort to try to drink less. figure out if it's an amount that you pass out after or a consistent time. if it's an amount, maybe keep less in the house (less likely to drink it if it's inconvenient, right?). if it's a time, start drinking later.

if that sounds unreasonable or you try it and it doesn't work, you need to quit cold turkey, but it won't work until you truly believe you have a problem and you've hit rock bottom. then, and only then will cold turkey work. I sincerely hope your rock bottom isn't fatal and that it doesn't even come to that. sorry for the dire news, it's just been my experience.

 

I understand this issue well. I used to down a handle of whiskey a night, and start to polish off another one before passing out and having to wake up for work the next day. At first I didn't think I was drinking too much because I would see a bottle with the majority of whiskey in it. Then I realized that was the start of my second bottle that night, not the first one.

How you proceed from here will totally depend on you. What works for some doesn't for others, and there is no universal correct solution. Just considering making a change is a huge first step. I would suggest talking with loved ones about it too, who can provide a great deal of insight and support, even at times when we might not want it anymore.

 
cayo275:
I would suggest talking with loved ones about it too, who can provide a great deal of insight and support, even at times when we might not want it anymore.
This makes sense, except that my credibility is in the toilet. People would probably rather see results instead of hearing promises at this point. It's not like this is the first time I have thought of stopping boozing.
 
DickFuld:

My issue is that I can never just have 3-4 drinks. If I have one, I drink until I blackout. This isn't me going out and getting smashed with my friends, it's usually me drinking at home alone. Even if I go out with friends, I'll have 3-4 drinks and then come home and down a bottle. I'm not sure there is a moderation solution. If there is, this is what I'm trying to determine.

This used to be my problem, and unfortunately, it took me hitting pretty close to rock bottom before I realized I had to make some changes. Ended up quitting cold turkey the day after a particularly bad blackout session, and I was sober for 2 years. Back on the sauce now, but for the most part, it's kept in check.

I think completely eliminating booze from your life is the best place to start, and then reevaluate after however long you think you need to see if it is something you can do in moderation. Otherwise, perhaps alcohol just isn't for you.

Good luck.

 
DickFuld:

@ArcherVice
@The Stranger
@cayo275
@theHill
@Dingdong08

Thanks guys.

My issue is that I can never just have 3-4 drinks. If I have one, I drink until I blackout. This isn't me going out and getting smashed with my friends, it's usually me drinking at home alone. Even if I go out with friends, I'll have 3-4 drinks and then come home and down a bottle. I'm not sure there is a moderation solution. If there is, this is what I'm trying to determine.

Constrain yourself to drink at your local bar and/or with others only. You would never drink yourself to blackout with others around. Also, you would not down multiple bottles everyday for the same reason. Do this for a week and you should get to moderate drinking.

 
Going Concern:

lolololol

Have you considered the possibility that instead of drinking too much you actually aren't drinking enough?

Maybe add a different type of gin to the roster to mix it up (no pun intended)?

I can say with 100% certainty that not drinking enough is not the issue. Numerous people have spoken to me about my 'problem'.
 
DickFuld:

lolololol

Have you considered the possibility that instead of drinking too much you actually aren't drinking enough?

Maybe add a different type of gin to the roster to mix it up (no pun intended)?

I can say with 100% certainty that not drinking enough is not the issue. Numerous people have spoken to me about my 'problem'.

 

I think they used up all their credits in the post from the guy who doesn't drink. Personally, as long as I can still stand upright and not slur, I can have another drink. @DickFuld not making light of your situation, I've always been one of those a-holes who can drink socially so I'm not much help.

@cayo275 kudos for sharing your outlook, I had Marines who sought an answer from the bottle and it is really, really hard to escape that in our culture. Keep up the good fight.

 

I always take these "embarrassing the family" claims with a barrel of salt. Are they actually embarassed. Or are they just so obsessed with their perceived social importance that they have somehow come to the conclusion that anyone judges them based on what someone else does? Besides you are a grown ass man people can't say. Jeez that guys parents did a shitty job of teaching him manners. If you aren't beating your children, your wife, the servants, or killing hobos I would say you are blowing this way out of proportion

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

and sorry to derail your thread DF, but to summarize my experience with heavy drinkers, either you get tired of drinking as I did (nowhere near a bottle of whisky a night) and just cut back naturally because you don't have time to get fucked up, or you do something else like consciously slow down or seek help.

have you tried occupying yourself with exercise? if you're not the type of person who's drinking to ease the pain of life, but because you have an addictive personality and are bored, might as well pick up something you can get addicted to but that won't wreck your life long term.

 

Give it a try. If it doesn't work, seek help. I've done it as have others but a lot of people can't. Nothing to be ashamed of. Alcoholics are just wired differently than other people. It's not about having a drink or two to relax, it's about having an entire bottle once you have a sip.

But I'm telling you, start smoking pot. Trade a vice for a vice, but being high rarely gets you in trouble.

 
TNA:

If you think it's a problem then see someone or stop. I mean what else are we going to say?

Has MAAD taken over this forum? We're being inundated with drinking posts lately.

This time of year is probably when alcohol consumption is at it's highest for some people.

1.). Evening starts earlier. 2.) Not much to do outside- weather is cold. 3.) Body tried to put on weight due to cold weather. 4.) NYC Finance is not exactly as sober a line of work, as say being a Mormon missionary.

All of these factors add up to more drinking. It's natural for people to realize that maybe they don't have a serious problem yet, but it will become one if they don't cut back. Especially around this time of the year.

There is nothing wrong with drinking. It is nice when that drinking is at healthier levels.

There is nothing wrong with not drinking or wanting to reduce drinking.

Let's not attack people for wanting to drink less and getting advice on it. These people might already be in a bit of a rough state if they are drinking a lot and drinking isn't working for them. Though for some reason I almost get the sense that DickFuld is a 30-something NYC trader rather than a 60-year old retired CEO living in Florida.

 

I'm trying to do that right now.

  1. I just graduated college and it's a lot easier to not be drunk all the time now.
  2. I would drink primarily out of boredom. I try to occupy my time with productive shit to counteract this.
  3. When going out, I've been favoring activities in the city, comedy clubs, shows, etc. over bars lately. Much easier to have fun relatively sober. And new experiences are dope.
  4. I'm cutting back because: a. I'm trying to live a healthier lifestyle; b. Liquor makes you fat and I gotta be not fat; c. Save money; d. Stop doing stupid shit blacked out; e. Money; f. It got to the point where I could drink beer all day and hardly catch a buzz
  5. Dating a girl who's into fitness/nutrition makes living a healthy lifestyle a lot easier.
  6. Have your own fridge with your healthy shit if you live with roomies. Eating healthy and exercising makes you wanna be healthier all around (i.e. not drink so much).
  7. Don't go straight-edge status unless you have a good reason to. Drinking is fun, but it's a lot better in moderation, I think. Like tonight, I'm going out with this girl and I'm gonna grab a bottle of red wine at Mariano's beforehand and drink that while I make us some steamed mussels (easy, cheap, healthy af, delicious) and and roasted brussel sprouts. Feels classier and is better for you than blacking out and waking up hungover.
  8. Learn about different kinds of alcohols and try different ones. If you're trying a new craft beer or whiskey or cocktail, it feels more productive than blacking out on Smirnoff and Red Bull and you probably won't drink to excess.
  9. Drinking to excess is still fun sometimes, but I'm getting too old for that shit; both physically and mentally. So yeah moderation
heister: Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad. https://arthuxtable.com/
 
Name Of Profit:

I always wonder how people can end up drinking heavily.

My personal rules of drinking are:
-Never drink alone
-Never drink when you're sad

maybe you should set your own personal rules of drinking.

Yeah but it's fun to drink alone, sad, or both.. you're missing out.

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..
 

My wife used to get pissed when I drank alone. However, I never drink alone to wallow in misery. It's always for fun. Some nights when the kids are in bed and so is she, it's nice to do a little drinking and put the headphones in. I live in the south, and there have been many days where I would sit at home with the windows open, sun coming in, tunes blasting, and finish a half case or more. I don't think there are any issues with that. If you're pulling the Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting irish whiskey binge at 2 a.m. thinking about your dead wife until you blackout, that's another issue.

"Decide what to be and go be it." - The Avett Brothers
 

I went from 25 cans of PBR per week down to 14 standard servings of alcohol. I don't think I had a problem, but my consumption was getting to levels that were higher than I would like, and if I had not taken action I would have wanted to drink more.

I cut back by designating 3-4 nights a week as non-drinking nights. Leaving the trading floor and making friends who do not drink an entire six pack on a Monday night also helped.

Not drinking for half the week builds tolerance to alcohol, too. So on the nights you drink, you stop at four rather than six.

One other trick is finding stuff to do in the evening. In grad school, that was homework. During the summer, that was taking the motorcycle out. In the winter, I have switched over to meditation. Combine that with some exercise and herbal tea and the evening is 3/4 as interesting and 5x healthier than drinking.

What else- all else being equal, it is fundamentally harder to drink less in the winter than the summer, just due to issues with the body's desire for calories when it's cold and when evening starts. If you use that as an excuse to drink during the winter you won't stop during the summer, but it might be reassuring to know that this if you can cut back now, cutting back once spring rolls around will get even easier.

My life is better now that I drink less. I get more out of my evenings, and I look forward to them just as much as I did when I was drinking during the week. My mornings are much better, too. I have found stuff to do in the evenings that does not involve alcohol or drugs- even in the winter when there's little to do outside. It's possible to get there and while you have to quit cold turkey 3-4 nights a week, you do not have to quit cold turkey and can look forward to drinking on the weekends.

To start off, this Sunday, remove all alcohol from your house or apartment. Do not buy any liquor or go to any bars until Thurs. night. It's best not to drink at all during the week, but if you Have something for work, stick to light beer and switch to club soda ideally after one or maybe after two. Then push Thurs. back to Friday. On Sunday, buy yourself tea and juices to drink to replace alcohol. If alcohol helps you fall asleep, buy some melatonin or valerian at the grocery store to take an hour before bedtime. Realize that four nights a week give you an extra 12-15 hours a week to live and develop yourself. What will you do with that time? Read books? Go to the gym? See a movie? Play board games? Make plans for what you will do with all of this time you're gaining. And if it helps, you can allow yourself to drink a little bit more on Thursday or Friday starting out. After a few weeks, you'll find that four drinks has the same impact as six used to.

It's possible; it's been done before and you can do it, too. You may need to make new friends for early in the week, tho.

 
GoldenCinderblock:

25 cans/week is so on the brink of alcoholism breh

It's not 70. It put me in the second highest decile of drinkers- probably the fifth highest by NYC terms, lol. But it's getting there, and getting drunk on a Monday night because work was really stressful that day- and then drinking most nights during the week and weekend was not a good place for me to be.

Medical experts say that 14 drinks/week is sorta the limit for liver health, although other studies say there's a little room for bending the limits.

I think 14 is a good target to aim for for many people. I understand the situation in NYC is a little different in terms of drinking than the NJ suburbs or Chicago- I lived there for five years, but I think that going cold turkey Sunday-Tuesday (three nights) and trying to keep average drinking on the four other nights below five is a reasonable goal for an NYC resident, even in the winter. That adds up to 20 drinks/week.

The key is, on a regular basis, you need to spend several consecutive nights not drinking. This short-circuits a lot of the brain's dependency on alcohol.

@DickFuld if you buy me a plane ticket I will come down to Florida and hang out with you Sunday-Wed night and make sure you don't drink for the first two weeks. It will seem boring at first but there is other stuff to do. And since you are in Florida it is not freezing cold outside and you get an extra hour or so of daylight. That makes this easier.

 

I really think the key is to find something else to do in the evening when you are not drinking, and designating several nights per week sober nights.

If you are stressed out, if there is not enough time during the week for you to get everything done that you want, and you are drinking most nights during the week, you can't really claim that you're stressed out due to time constraints.

Giving up drinking three nights a week easily buys you 10 hours/week. Use that for exercise, yoga, meditation or mindfulness-based stress reduction, or for researching new trading strategies if you get bored.

 

I think cold turkey can be daunting for some people. It would have been for me. I don't like making drastic changes in my life- stuff always has to happen gradually.

For me, spending several consecutive nights sober interrupts the cycle of alcohol dependency and addiction. Supposedly it has also worked in lab mice, too. (I'll see if I can find the study tonight).

I also think that there are different approaches for different people. I don't want to say that one approach can't work. I do think that there are alternatives to cold turkey that can work for people who take one look at it, take a few more looks, and are still convinced that it is impossible for them. I was one of those people.

I think the best thing that helps are stories and testimonials. People want to see a picture of what it's like to spend 3-4 nights/week sober or how people quit cold turkey and what they are doing now. They want to know that the urge to drink subsides, that there are other things to fill the evening with, and that it gets A WHOLE LOT EASIER going forward. (Fortunately all of these things are true for most approaches)

 

Start hitting the gym and ask your family members to join you. As soon as you start craving a drink, throw on some gym shorts and run around the block. As soon as you start craving a drink, immediately grab your car keys and drive to the gym. And lastly and most importantly, if you're ever craving another drink when you know you've had too much, just say to yourself "I am stronger than my craving to drink". If you believe you are stronger mentally, you won't drink.

 

I think the key message here is that after the first few days of whichever strategy you employ to reduce consumption, it gets easier. The hardest time I had was the first Monday (not Sunday) I stopped drinking during the week. The next week was easier, the week after that was easier... It gets better. It gets easier and eventually even enjoyable to imagine and then live a week without drinking. There is some work to do in the meantime, but it's worth it.

If anyone needs help, and there's something about my story that might be able to help you, feel free to reach out or PM me. Not sure how helpful I can be but I have been there on some level.

 
IlliniProgrammer:

I think the key message here is that after the first few days of whichever strategy you employ to reduce consumption, it gets easier. The hardest time I had was the first Monday (not Sunday) I stopped drinking during the week. The next week was easier, the week after that was easier... It gets better. It gets easier and eventually even enjoyable to imagine and then live a week without drinking. There is some work to do in the meantime, but it's worth it.

If anyone needs help, and there's something about my story that might be able to help you, feel free to reach out or PM me. Not sure how helpful I can be but I have been there on some level.

Interesting. I have been able to lay off for a week pretty easily, but found it almost impossible to last a month. 99% of my drinks are alone, so skipping going out is not a problem for me.

Also, @andylouis why is this on the front page? Not very finance centric of a topic.

 
DickFuld:

Interesting. I have been able to lay off for a week pretty easily, but found it almost impossible to last a month. 99% of my drinks are alone, so skipping going out is not a problem for me.

So then this situation is pretty tricky. Then again I don't think I've ever gone a month without drinking since I was 22, either. I would probably also run into trouble. How much do you drink? If you're averaging less than ~60 US servings per month, and they're reasonably well distributed, I don't think you really have an issue. I still think that the best place to control how much you drink is at the liquor store, grocery store, etc. One of the nice things about living in NJ was that liquor could only be sold in liquor stores- you had to physically go out of your way to go there. @"DickFuld" I heard you were selling the Florida mansion. Any thought about moving to NJ? You'd go to the grocery store, you'd go to the mall, you'd go to the park, you'd go to the beach. You'd go to the gas station. Unless you went inside a liquor store or a restaurant/bar, you would never see liquor for sale. This might make it a little bit easier if your goal is to go a month without drinking. But to be honest, if you can go a week or two without drinking, if you are on average drinking less than 60-70 drinks/month, you are doing as well as or better than me. And I think I'm doing OK. If not, we need to figure out a routine for you that keeps you from buying liquor. I guess in that case I'd want to know when and where you buy alcohol and if there's a way for us to put a rule in place that keeps drinking moderate. If we can just say "I won't drink more than 4-5 drinks/night, and after three nights drinking I'll spend three nights sober", we're doing a lot
No way, tell us more
LOL +1 SB.
 

Can you join a class/activity/group that interests you? Finding a hobby (probably not wine/scotch tasting) can really help occupy your time in a positive way and provide you with a feeling of accomplishment/worth/satisfaction. What are your interests?

CPA/investor/bballer
 

start blazin up bruh, also experiment with uppers an amphetamine high is quite nice

~High GPA Crew~ ~Firms Reach Out to Me Crew~ ~Round Down My GPA to Look Modest Crew~ ~Never Use 'Incoming' on LinkedIn Crew~
 

25 cans of PBR a week.

L

O

L

Dick, my sympathies bro. I'd try and get new friends. Or designate nights to not drink. I feel you though.

On a side note, this site has literally morphed into an Oprah book club meeting.

 

I want to be supportive of @"TNA", but it is also time for those of us who think the world is not going to hell in a handbasket and that sometimes life gets better to be a bit cynical about cynicism.

Look I've had zany posts on WSO. I've claimed that the state of IL should cause trouble for grain shipments and front run prices on the CBOT to pay off it's pension debts. I've also made blanket comments about the character of people from certain schools that I wish I could walk back. Later, I made some of the same douchey comments that 2011 IP would have hated. But I've also worked and continue to work to change in the whole process. I wonder if this is something that TNA can do too.

Look, if Rodney Dangerfield crashed a stuffy party I happened to be at, I'd laugh like hell. If Larry the Cable guy showed up to a reunion with my alma mater horribly misspelled on his shirt, I'd find it funny. And I am happy with people crashing threads about MBA or MFE admissions... But to troll a thread where people are struggling with substance issues... just makes me feel bad. As TNA got angry about in a thread about networking, people are trying to work to get ahead in life- or in this case merely to get their health back- why should we hold them back? There's a very cynical and negative double standard here. I don't feel good about someone getting called out for behaving like a schoolyard bully, but I don't feel bad about it, either.

I think the $64K question is how do you get through to a cynic and get them to change their outlook.

 
TNA:

I'm good with your lack of support.

Got it. In which case, I will try not pull any punches. You strike me as someone who appreciates bluntness and I will try to be as direct as a Midwesterner can be.

I think you have some serious issues when it comes to anger and cynicism. I think this is compounded by the fact that you don't stop to think about how other people want to be treated or how they see a situation before you speak. And that can push people away.

I'm not going to bring up one other incident that happened offline and supports my suspicions, but I will let your OPs speak for themselves:

1.) http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/i-hate 2.) http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/king-obama 3.) http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/marketplace-fairness-act

If you're wondering why you're having trouble making friends and influencing people, or if you're unhappy with how your career is progressing, it might be time to start thinking about how you interact with others.

You have the potential to be a nice person, but the way you currently treat others- and have treated others- repels people and it's hurt your career. And I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you were the CEO of Uber or some commercial bank, but that's not really you. I think you clearly have the ability to succeed in a relationship business, and the reason you're not finding the success you would like are these issues. The good news is that you can fix them if you choose to.

Good luck to you.

 

Oh, and let me just state for the record I don't know you. I've met you like once, for 5 minutes, years back.

I mean dude, are you insane? You know my friends now, my job, what I ate for lunch? Also, you need reading lessons. I posted a couple times in this thread with supportive advice to @duckfuld. My comment about this place being an Oprah Book club had jack shit to do with him, but with the endless series of posts I've seen lately. So sorry if you don't like my stance.

I'm not going to shit on you cause I frankly don't care, but you should mind your business and keep the self help to yourself. This is literally absurd.

 
TNA:

Oh, and let me just state for the record I don't know you. I've met you like once, for 5 minutes, years back.

Yes I met you too.

I mean dude, are you insane? You know my friends now, my job, what I ate for lunch?

I don't. I am guessing a bit based on what I've seen and what I know. I'm usually a pretty good guesser.
Also, you need reading lessons. I posted a couple times in this thread with supportive advice to @duckfuld. My comment about this place being an Oprah Book club had jack shit to do with him, but with the endless series of posts I've seen lately. So sorry if you don't like my stance.
Thanks for that first contribution, (you did complain that everyone was posting about how to drink less). For the second post, I think the posts in response to yours' had to do more with the fact that you really don't think about how your posts come off to others who might disagree with you. It might have been something that you were completely unaware of, and I felt you would want to know if you didn't know already.

I'm not going to shit on you cause I frankly don't care, but you should mind your business and keep the self help to yourself. This is literally absurd.

Fair enough. I'm backing away from this thread.
 

@dickfuld - Dude, if you aren't trolling, my advice to you would be to get on some xanax or maybe see a therapist. Not a neg towards you, but if you are drinking hardcore alone you might be upset. Or have family issues or seasonal issues, but you deff want to hash them out. If you just want to drink alone more moderately, I would try and switch to say beer, wine, something not hardcore.

Or try and go out and socialize. Maybe hit up FB or Reddit and find some people in a similar position.

As for IP, I have nothing to say to you. You want to make a comment about me being a dick, cool. Fair enough. But your passive aggressive insults don't fly with me. It is 1) immature, 2) insulting and 3) incorrect.

 
Dingdong08:

This may have been the best WSO thread I've seen in my limited time here. Two real guys fighting.

too bad @"UFOinsider" isn't involved, he wouldve already called out the other to meet him on the street at lunch tomorrow for a good old fashioned fist fight.
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AndyLouis:
Dingdong08:

This may have been the best WSO thread I've seen in my limited time here. Two real guys fighting.

too bad @UFOinsider isn't involved, he wouldve already called out the other to meet him on the street at lunch tomorrow for a good old fashioned fist fight.

Hah that was a period of life I'd rather just forget about, I actually don't enjoy conflict. I'm actually the creative type. I won't begrudge anyone a good fight; sometimes you have to clear the air. This isn't my argument though, so I'll just continue to sit on the sidelines.

As for alcohol. There's a lot I can say given my own background but the punch line is that when it comes time to ease off, take a break, or just quit.....then do it. You know when enough is enough. I mean, you go through this life once and you have to do what makes you happy.

Get busy living
 

60 standard servings per month???? That's two per day. It's way, way more than that in a week. I don't want to give the impression that I'm out partying with friends all the time. Picture a guy taking direct pulls on the bottle at the kitchen sink at home. Or, if, I'm trying to be sneaky, dumping out 1/2 a coke can and filling the rest of the can with gin all the while pretending I'm just drinking a Coke. Once it's half way down, I fill it up again. Shit like that.

I'm technically not drinking alone, because there are other people usually in the house, namely Mrs. Fuld, I'm just the only one drinking.

 
DickFuld:

60 standard servings per month???? That's two per day. It's way, way more than that in a week. I don't want to give the impression that I'm out partying with friends all the time. Picture a guy taking direct pulls on the bottle at the kitchen sink at home. Or, if, I'm trying to be sneaky, dumping out 1/2 a coke can and filling the rest of the can with gin all the while pretending I'm just drinking a Coke. Once it's half way down, I fill it up again. Shit like that.

I'm technically not drinking alone, because there are other people usually in the house, namely Mrs. Fuld, I'm just the only one drinking.

Got it. More questions:
  1. When do you start drinking typically?
  2. Do most nights involve drinking? How does this 60 drinks/week look like?
  3. Is Mrs Fuld willing to help watch your drinking and stop you from drinking on nights you don't plan to drink?
  4. If I told you that 60/week was going to become 25/week, could you deal with that? (you are taller/bigger than me, so a bit more liquor may be justified for large people) 5.) Are you willing to switch to just beer and wine?

I think that your body responds to alcohol differently than mine. I think alcohol dependency runs on stuff that has a

 

Check out this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572309032/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpag…

The author has a extensive background in RESEARCH BASED alcohol abuse/addiction treatment. His general conclusion is, yes, it is possible to be a heavy drinker and transition into a moderate drinker. However, there exist certain patterns or behaviors that correlate with expected success of the transition. In a nutshell, the further down the road an individual is toward the stereotypical alcoholic (drinking every day, morning drinking, inability to stop after 1-2, regular blackouts, etc) the less likely the individual will be able to become a moderate drinker.

Excerpt from the book summary:

Clear, concise, non-judgmental and practical, it lays out the facts that are often obscured in the heated debate over alcohol treatments. As Miller and co-author Muñoz write, under previous conceptions of alcohol problems, a person was either alcoholic or not, and "if you are an alcoholic, then it's too late for moderation. If you're not alcoholic, then you don't need a book on it." Research has since disproved these assumptions, finding that alcohol problems occur on a spectrum and that moderation, like other behavior, can be learned. (The authors stress that readers needn't concern themselves over whether they're "alcoholics" but should instead focus on changing harmful drinking behavior.) The new book offers tools for successful moderation-like spacing alcoholic drinks with non-alcoholic ones and timing drinks to maintain low levels of blood alcohol concentration-as well as tactics for dealing with common challenges, like hard-drinking friends and social anxiety. It's also been updated to better highlight the most useful techniques. Contrary to fears that offering tips on moderation might help people rationalize further heavy drinking, Miller's work and that of others has found that trying moderation helps drinkers decide for themselves if it is an achievable goal. If not, the self-discovery provoked by being unable to learn to moderate often spurs abstinence-an outcome the authors also applaud.

 

I used to be a pretty heavy drinker (~15-20 5 days a week from 18-25) and have in the last 4 years cut it down to about 30 drinks total on Friday and Saturday. I can stop drinking after 8 or so drinks without the "once I start I can't stop mentality" I once had. The longest I have been sober is when I was smoking the most herb. Marijuana completely cut down the psychological urge to grab a drink. In fact marijuana is being used for this exact purpose at the moment and has some compelling research to back it up. Secondly, I went about 3 months without drinking and not smoking weed by reading the book "The Easy Way to Stop Drinking," I have no idea why it worked but it mentally cured the urge for a few months. Lastly, there is a medication unlike Antiabuse (makes you violently ill if you drink) called Naltrexone which stops the body from getting the pleasure that your brain seeks from drinking. Look up the Sinclair Method which uses Naltrexone for further info.

I also disagree with the poster that said get rid of all your booze from your house. For some reason if I don't have anything to drink at home I get intense cravings and have to go out to buy a bottle. Once I have that said bottle in my house I don't feel the urge to drink, and instead choose to drink because I want to relax. Sorry for the long post but one more thing that helped me cut back is an app called Alcodroid. The app is great, you input your drink and it tells you your blood alcohol level and when you will become sober. I make sure that I keep my BAC under .3 (yes heavy drinkers can easily get this intoxicated without falling, passing out, or blacking out) and try not to go above .25. I make sure my BAC is less that .08 when I plan to drive the next day. Clearly, I'm still a heavy drinker according to the doctors but come on 14 drinks a week is laughable coming from someone from Brew City.

Sorry for this jumbled mess of a post but you got this man, good luck.

Harvey Specter doesn't get cotton mouth.
 

Update time:

I took your suggestions. Some were implementable, some were not. Some advice was not worth taking. Anyway, here's where we stand:

  1. I have not had a drink for over a week. I consider that a HUGE victory.

  2. I tried to get rid of my Bombay Sapphire bottles, but when I took them to the Salvation Army, they would not take them. Of course, I could not throw them out, because that would be wasteful and that's not my style. I still don't know what to do with them, but we'll tackle that at another time.

  3. The big test is now: I want to try to drink socially, as my original post suggests. So, tonight, I went out with my friends for about 1/2 hour and had a few beers. For those curious, I had three Sam Adams IPA Rebel 20 oz beers. Everything is fine now, but my driver is taking me home. My goal is to have no drinks alone once I get home.

I get motivated by competition, so let's put an over/under on how many drinks I have between now and 9 am tomorrow. Place your bets. If you're over, I win. Otherwise, I lose.

 
DickFuld:

but my guess is that it's all or nothing for me.

Discuss.

Yes, that's the way I got out of my smoking habit. But having tough luck regarding alcohol. Hope to reduce it soon, though. Best of luck to you.

 

I used to drink about 20 - 25 oz of gin in a night 5 days a week so I can't compare that to 10 liters a week, but I do have insight on what I did personally to curb that.

Overall these posts sum it up quite well except for the amphetamines part. I like to drink way more when I'm on aderal vs not so I would sat addy wouldn't be the choice.

Overview: -smoke pot -exercise -don't day drink

I subbed out a lot of alcohol for a little bit of weed. You feel really f*cked up without having a lot of alcohol(and less gnarly hangovers). You keep a lot of your motor skills when you're high/drunk vs. hammered drunk and pot causes far less physical dependency(if any). Also, getting your ass up and exercising is so important I cannot stress it enough. If you have time exercise every day or at least 3 days/week. At the end of the day I reward myself with some pot and a couple of beers/G&Ts and I am ready for a relaxed, non-blackout night. Last thing to point out is that one should stray away from day drinking. Occasional day drinking with friends is alright but for the most part make drinking be at the end of the day and you'll have less energy to go all out boozing, especially when you're high.

Dick your posts have helped me be motivated to be a bad motherfucker in the past so i hope this helps you out.

 
Clutchmeister:

Dick your posts have helped me be motivated to be a bad motherfucker in the past so i hope this helps you out.

That's pretty amazing since probably 9 out of 10 things I post are just stupid things done to entertain myself, but thanks.

For all of you guys suggesting smoking pot......I'm not exactly running in social circles where pot is easy to get. They're not exactly dishing it out at the country club or the handball courts. I'm not in Boulder anymore.

 

True to the first statement but there is some decent material on WSO from you.

And if you want to get some pot, just go to your local high school, walk up to the sketchiest kid you see and pull out some hundreds and tell him you want some dank bud. 80% chance you get the weed, 10% chance the kid runs away, and a 10% chance he calls the authorities. Okay well if the last one happens, you can't show your face at that high school anymore. There are more high schools everywhere though. Little risk, with a great potential for success.

 

Goldie has decided he will no longer drink. Goldie will report back with his findings. If Goldie doesn't report back, Goldie decided to go back to drinking.

heister: Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad. https://arthuxtable.com/
 

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I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 

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I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 

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heister: Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad. https://arthuxtable.com/
 

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