Screwed up all the internship interviews at BB banks
Hey,
So I am basically in a very bad situation. I received interview invites from GS, Lazard, MS, JPM for an internship and got rejected at all of them. My preparation was obviously insufficient, even though I'd say I have a decent understanding of all the basic knowledge. I had to prepare part of the stuff (esp. multiples, LBO) on my own cause I've never learnt those things during my undergrad studies and those are the areas where I sucked the most I guess.
I am kind of pissed off and angry at myself because how can anyone receive interview invites at all the top players and not even get one second round invite..
My main concern is: Will I have another chance next year to get invited? Or would this very negatively affect my application? I wouldn't say that my performance was embarassing, it was just completely insufficient if I think of all the applicants who did probably way better than I did.. Also, I have no idea how I should make the best out of this situation. Cause I kind of put a lot of effort and time into it. (apparently not enough though) Should I apply at 2nd tier banks? should I try to get an internship in consulting first? I will start with my graduate studies in autumn 2015 (not 100% sure where though).
Any help would be appreciated!
ps: the interviews were all 90% technical - i don't wanna mention the exact location (because of anonymity ;))
Is this US recruiting?
If you weren't embarrassing and didn't put them off with your personality (or even they liked it) but just came across as unprepared, then they will probably give you another shot next year?
IMO you should apply to all BB, all MM, all EB but I guess American recruiting is different.
How did you practice/learn technicals this time? Which resources did you use and which topics did you cover? Do you know how you will do this differently next year yet?
Its Europe, not London, but one of the other main offices.
I think it was fine in terms of personal fit, maybe I could've been a bit more convincing in some of my answers but I think that wasn't the problem. I mainly used the investment banking book from Rosenbaum. I covered general Accounting stuff (connection of the 3 statements), DCF valuation, multiples, LBO analysis. I think I did pretty bad when it came to more difficult multiple questions.. If I apply again I will have to prepare more in detail, and also cover some general economic topics I think.
So should I now send applications to 2nd tier banks (CS, UBS, Barclays, BNP Paribas,...) and try to get an internship there and then reapply at all the BBs after I'm done with my graduate studies (i.e. in about 1,5 years)? Also I haven't applied to Citi yet.
Why wouldn't you do that?
Btw regarding technicals, it might not be about how much you know. They might just like pushing you beyond your knowledge to see how you react under the pressure. Still, more practice the better.
Obviously, as UKUg says above, you should apply to all IBD programs, big and small banks. I'm confused as to why you're labeling great programs as "2nd tier" and hence not good enough for you, when you don't have any offers on the table. I'm genuinely not trying to be mean, I just think that's a poor and elitist attitude. You'll have another chance to be invited for FT interviews with the other banks but only if you get relevant banking experience this summer. At least that's how it primarily works in the US...
And you also mentioned that you won't be able to interview until March now. If Europe recruiting is anything like the US, most places wrap up hiring by late February at the latest. If you really want it, you'll have to find a way to make getting to the interviews work. Banks aren't going to hold a spot for your timeline.
On prep, I used Rosenbaum, WSO IB guide and many of the BIWS ones with practice interview questions. While I think Rosenbaum offers a great background, I needed to see practice questions to make everything click so I highly recommend looking into some other sources.
Preach it brotha. As a member of a "2nd tier" program, I think OP should probably rethink both his perceptions of prestige as well as take a look at some different league tables.
Yea I will do that. But only in 4-6 weeks because I have no holidays left at my current internship so I can't attend potential interviews before march :S
Any other books besides Rosenbaum you would highly recommend?
I used Rosenbaum only.
90% technical? omg
Not to be mean or anything, but if you read that book and didn't nail it, its questionable if you actually understand investment banking or finance. I mean maybe, but that book is pretty much perfect and spoon feeds you the technicals. I cant sugar coat it and say you can prepare again making it seem like you'll get something. The questions are pretty basic that are asked in regards to this. I know because an intern of mine has actually gotten BB interviews and acceptances at a different bank from mine. He had no real trouble.
Are you a finance major? I'm concerned. And I don't want to hurt your feelings, but there is just more value added by telling you the truth.
just to let you know my opinion about this: questions were NOT basic at all! I am about to get the impression that the location where I interviewed is somewhat different from all the other places in the world ^^ I don't wanna make a mistery out of this any more, so yes it was in Frankfurt a couple of months ago!
LMAO this gotta be Frankfurt :D
I remember my 2 hours, non-stop (only) technicals there
Apply to other offices at same BBs mate, in London you wont even get technicals for most BBs
As an analyst in one of your highly sought after banks (GS/JPM/MS), I can probably venture a guess and say that you failed because youre delusional. Because although you probably didn't tell them you were only applying to them, your cockyness and elitist view came off. To downplay top banks (ie CS/UBS) when you have zero offers is as bad as it gets. I usually try and help people here, especially those who fail at interviews, as I did, but man there is no helping someone who thinks a bank is beneath them when they have no skin in the game. I was actually going to actually try and provide you advice until you said the "should i apply to 2nd tier banks" then started spewing out BBs names.
I know this may come off as harsh, so I apologize for that, but you seriously need a wake up check. Thats why uoure failing. I failed at most of my internship interviews when asked "what didnt you like about past coworkers" and i would answer the question as if my friend asked me. I could see that same mentality, and i dont even know you. You seem like the average looking girl who thinks she deserves prom queen and to be with the star quarterback.
Good luck, and I sincerely hope you land somethig, even if you must settle with a CS or a UBS.
Ok I'm sorry, I think this probably sounded differently to you than I meant it. I didnt want to say that those "2nd tier" are worse than the others where I interviewed; also I did not mention Citi together with the others since I wanted to highlight that its in the same league as GS, JPM, etc.
What I meant as "2nd tier" is that those banks (CS, UBS, etc.) are not recognized the same as GS, MS, JPM. (Correct me if i am wrong but thats at least what I read online and here in this forum) I never wanted to say that they arent good enough for me!!! I certainly know that i was obviously not ready for an internship at GS or JPM, since I havent that much experience and I didn't specifically major in Finance but I had multiple Finance classes so I think I have a very good understanding of all the accounting stuff and DCF. What I am lacking is decent knowledge and application of Multiples because, as I said, that topic wasn't covered during my undergrad studies and I think its one of the essentials.
I didn't go through the entire Rosenbaum book, what was obvioulsy a big mistake because thats why I think I didn't get some of the essential parts. I think for the next time I need to atually practice the stuff with examples. (especially if I interview again at the same location) Is there another book with which I can "practice" it? I got some really tough multiple questions when I interviewed so I think it is not possible to answer them if you only studied the theoretical stuff.
@ henchman: I am everything but not cocky and neither do I have an elitist view about myself. It's always hard saying what you acutally mean over the internet and as we all know the "ranking" about banks is probably the most controversial topic in the investment banking world; so again I am sorry that you got that wrong. I would acutally be very happy to get ANY internship in banking even though it sounded like I am only looking for a brand name on my CV.
Any further advice would still be very appreciated.
PS: in Europe you can do year round internships. I am not specifically looking for a summer program.
This is beyond repair. Most sane people's mentality when going through recruiting is they'll be glad with any offer, and possibly work up after that.
henchman's point is still valid. You trying to justify you calling them second tier banks doesn't deny the fact that you still needed to wonder if you should apply for great firms like CS and UBS. There will always be people like you that kills it at studying and tests, gets invited to everywhere because you look good on paper, and can't get past interviews and ends up not ending up in banking. What you should understand is that you're going after one the most sought after positions.
In your case, I think your perspective is out of whack. Finance doesn't need more people that focus on whether they deserve "1st tier" or "2nd tier" offers. Aim high, but be realistic. Btw, CS and UBS are also considered "BB" (bulge bracket) banks.
If there is an advice I would give you, it is that Rosenbaum in my opinion is more than enough for 99% of technical questions. There won't be an all-in-one guide that teaches you everything that will pop up in an interview. You need to internalize the concepts and understand them enough to be able to apply them on questions they might throw at you. Whether this be quantitative questions or theoretical questions. They understand that you won't be able to answer everything, but want to see how far you can get with the knowledge you have. I personally found theoretical questions harder than quantitative questions (it would be impractical to ask you to solve an interview question on a paper and pen that might take more than 5 minutes). Also, a finance education isn't as practical as you might think. You should stop blaming your deficiency on that. Many non-finance majors do just fine.
I don't have to defend myself here... anyway, what I wanted to ask was HOW should I proceed and WHERE I should apply. (you can read that in my original post) This wasn't a question whether some banks are good enough or not. and by where I mean there are also a lot smaller institutions out there; I just wanted to know if I should start there or continue applying at bigger ones. I already know that I can't get into GS/JPM/MS at the moment.
Maybe you should just apply for everything and see what offers you can get first before deciding.
You should apply EVERYWHERE, and read the WHOLE book. It's not rocket science. You seriously think you can get into banking by reading part of a book once?
Read the whole book, build a DCF model in excel, play around with it and change the numbers, see how they interact. Look at some annual/quarterly statements from actual companies. Do some comps and maybe even valuate an existing company. Do mock interviews with friends in banking or fellow students. All of this is very, very basic. I know how to do this and I'm not even working in M&A.
Btw, you should've figured this out by yourself as soon as you messed up your first interview, so that you could've aced the next ones. Learn from your mistakes.
No ones going to spoonfeed you the information when you're actually on the desk, so that's why we hire reasonably intelligent people who can figure stuff out themselves. I wouldn't want to have you in my analyst class, that's for sure. Also, recruiting pretty much wraps up in January, so you better be quick.
Are you really that ignorant? Just apply to everything, i.e. BBs, elite boutiques, MMs. Get a few offers and then start deciding. It's stupid to limit your applications to the three top dogs as other banks are also currently recruiting and are already filling spots. And yes, as a German who recruited both in Frankfurt and in London, I can confirm that Frankfurt is extremely technical. You rarely get any "tell me about a time when you were a leader / solved a complex problem / failed / etc." questions that London HR folks like to ask. It is mostly technical with the rest of the interview focused on your experience / yourself. You need to know the basics (EqV / EV, DCF, Comps, LBO, Capital structure), the reasoning behind each method, how different inputs impact the valuation, what the different items are (WACC, FCF, TV, IRR, etc.).
I actually prefer interviewing in Frankfurt since you are pretty much set once you know the valuation stuff cold. Sure, there are always a few really tough questions or surprises, but in generally interviews are a lot less random than they are in London. Btw, mental arithmetic is also pretty important for interviews in Frankfurt.
Can you recommend any books besides Rosenbaum? I think that book covers all the "basics" but I still get the impression that interview questions in Frankfurt sometimes go far beyond that. Especially when it comes to multiples. Concerning my ignorance etc.: I know I made a mistake --> hence I am currently sending out applications to all banks.
Well, for all my internship und FT interviews, I basically used Rosenbaum - IB, Moyer - Distressed Debt (my firm does M&A and RX), and The Investment Banker's Handbook. Other than that I skimmed through some guides like WSO / BIWS as well as other random web pages. I started early though and hence had a lot of time preparing for interviews. corporate finance classes in university also helped.
However, being likeable and seeming like a good guy is much more important than nailing the most complex technicals. That's also true for Frankfurt, where technicals are more crucial. Just be humble, likeable, well-prepared, and show your interest / passion for M&A and the firm and you should be fine.
This is just making excuses. You can't apply to the top banks in the world, complain about the difficulty of the interview, and whine when you don't get an invite back for a second round. Pick yourself up, don't sulk, and go grab a summer internship at a boutique IB, not necessarily an EB. Your goal should be to set yourself up well for a FT run at the same banks that turned you down this year. IB experience will do that, regardless of the name.
This is just making excuses. You can't apply to the top banks in the world, complain about the difficulty of the interview, and whine when you don't get an invite back for a second round. Pick yourself up, don't sulk, and go grab a summer internship at a boutique IB, not necessarily an EB. Your goal should be to set yourself up well for a FT run at the same banks that turned you down this year. IB experience will do that, regardless of the name.
yang, is this you?
Finance classes only teach so much, a lot of prep is done outside the classroom anyways
.
I'am in the same spot as the OP, but I applied to GS only to see how the process is. Got dinged after the AC because i didn't know any technicals since i 'am not a finance major. Now the more I look into IB the more i like it. I can only blame myself to be honest so i got myself the Rosenbaum as a christmas gift and i'am starting to get a look into it and master ALL the concepts.
Reading this pisses me off. No offence but reading about a guy who managed to get interviews at these places and came unprepared makes me sick. I've worked so hard to just get ONE interview at places like this and have finally landed one (took a whole year) and to hear a guy getting three while not being prepared is one of the most frustrating things I'v ever encountered. I do sincerely hope everything works out and that you land a job. Preparation is key.
OP im a non target liberal arts major, and if I can self study enough finance to get a HF internship I'm sure you are capable of figuring out enough to walk through multiples based questions.
not really a fair comparison, your HR lady swiped right...
OP embodies everything that is wrong with users on this site.
Not being a finance major is not an excuse since almost all the stuff you need for interviews is not taught in those classes anyways as far as I know. Also, Rosenbaum is nice as a basis, but if I recall correctly, it lacks information on EV to EqV adjustments and adjustments to multiples. Consider searching the web for the banks' training materials to get a deeper understanding.
What about the chances for an internship at a boutique, such as Greenhill or Houlihan Lokey? Because I read that they usually only hire people with prior experience at a big bank. True or not?
Places like GHL or HL only have 1 intern at a time (for about 3 months or so), hence there is only a very limited number of spots available in the Frankfurt office. GHL interviews are pretty tough btw, expect pretty detailed DCF and LBO questions. They also have a paper numerical test prior to the interviews which is more GMAT-style rather than SHL / Kenexa. People with prior experience are obviously preferred, but it is definitely not impossible to get in w/o a BB or other boutique internships.
Boutique sound harder to get in actually. Too few spots in boutiques. None of the boutiques recruit at my school.
Thank you for your help!! I think I will try to focus on my current applications and a good preparation if I get invited (hopefully) and leave the boutiques for now. 1 spot at a time sounds quite hard..
Another question: I also submitted an application for BoAML (early november) when I applied to GS etc. and my application status was set on "invitation for interview" a couple of weeks ago but I haven't heard anything from them. More than 2 months to get back to an application seems a little bit long to me. Or is BoA known for taking longer to contact the applicants?
Follow up and ask why you didn't receive an invitation for the interview although it is written online. That's what you should have done 6 weeks ago btw.
I already asked the HR lady, who emailed me for my additional documents after I submitted my application online, about 2-3 weeks ago. No reply. I thought it is probably because of christmas holidays but still, it seems a little odd.
Does anyone have any idea about the 1st round telephone interview at Barclays? Is this done by HR from London for all locations in Europe? I'm just wondering if this will be more competency based or mostly technical (in case the interviewer is from Frankfurt)
Noone? Is it appropriate to message an analyst on linkedin and ask?
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