Most people tell you that your 20's are the time to find yourself. It's a free decade where experimentation and "growing up" is largely encouraged and rarely looked down upon. You're only young once, right? Apparently all those people are full of shit.
- 80% of life's defining moments happen by age 35
- Backpacking through exotic locales will not help your resume
- 2/3 of your wage growth will happen in the first decade of your career
- Your clique hinders your future development
- Millenials haven't mastered anything yet, so best start now
Apparently there is nothing formative about barely paying rent and working as a barista. Who knew? Obviously with so many different choices and options it is easy to choose to focus on having fun and experiencing life rather than heading down a career path early. Not establishing yourself or having a defined path can very quickly lead you to being a mess by the time you get over that awesome ski instructor job or tending bar locally.
I do think, however, for the right person experimentation and doing things off the beaten path is absolutely the right idea. I don't view any period in your life as making or breaking you, but rather providing you a base to learn from. I doubt a lot of people here have issues with being driven or what path to take ( I mean that as a compliment) but I know I surely don't view myself doing the same thing for the next few years. Anyways, do you guys think wasting your 20's is catastrophic? Or should we view them as formative years to learn from, regardless of what 'path' you take. Are you really giving up that much by taking your time?
Sounds an awful lot like the book The Defining Decade. I agree with your points.
I mean honestly, yeah, you really are. Every year you waste you're killing scores possibilities for your future life.
Grass is always greener. People that follow "the path" always say they wish they went backpacking and the backpackers always wish they contributed to their 401k because they're broke.
I honestly don't know a single super successful person in finance who went to elite b-schools actually say anything remotely closely to this. They're glad that they busted their butt off in their 20's, so they can have a plethora of awesome professional opportunities as well as greater happiness since there is a strong correlation between money and happiness (contrary to what psychologist daniel gilbert says).
To be fair, there are very few "super" successful people not only in finance, but in any profession. If we consider just successful people (which lets assume is a significant amout), how can you possibly know what they're thinking about privately? They might have it all and still be depressed. It's not uncommon. And as much as I wish your last point was true, money is simply not correlated with happiness (past a certain "middle-class" point). Happiness comes from friends, experiences, relationships, and self-actualization. Money and physical posessions certainly help, but are generally useless in the grand scheme of life enjoyment.
I have not read any of the other posts in this thread, but this generally is correct. I personally think that your 20s is a great time to only be concerned with material things like making money, drinking heavily, accumulating cool things because once most people hit their 30s all this shit dies due to wife, kids, etc. There are much worse things to do with your 20s than attempt to make a lot of money, travel to nice places, and be a drunken asshole.
I am skeptical about the 2/3rds of wage growth part but other than that agree with your points.
There might be some truth to that statement. I mean among professionals, how many people make say $80K at age 28 and then explode up to $300K by age 33? Very rare. Usually your salary goes upward in a steady trajectory, assuming you're doing everything right.
I agree...with high achievers, that's not even close. I guess it's possible for lifetime engineers and people that never make it beyond middle management.
it's probably true, but its probably like those purposefullly jarring statistics. If you start working when yu're 22, suddenly your income goes from the $0 you earned in college to the ~$45k you earn your first year.
I agree entirely. I think kicking butt academically in college, especially in a STEM major, even at the expense of crazy partying is more than worth it and pay dividends for the rest of your life. I think college GPA is actually most predictive of one's future earning potential and career success. The first job you get out of college (which sets you up for future gigs) and graduate admissions all hinge upon that number. After all, no one says, "geez i wish i hadn't done so well in college, got that kickass job at a top private equity firm, gone to a top b-school and making tons of money." However, plenty of people do say, "god, i wish i hadn't gotten wasted so much at frat parties in college and instead took my academics more seriously. my life would be so much better now."
But more broadly speaking, too many Americans think their post-college years are a time for massive indulgence rather than reflection and building useful skillsets. I'm guilty of this as well to an extent in the sense that I was not introspective enough coming out of school.
I definitely disagree.
Coming from someone with a 3.6+ GPA in math from a target, it doesn't really matter. All my internships I've received hired me from either knowing someone, or liking my personality/thinking skills during the interview. Your GPA might get you in the door, but you can get in the doors a million ways...after that it's about being an interesting, worldly person. Your school matters first and every GPA after a 3.3+ is marginal to me (depending on major also). I would say there are equally as many people who regret not living life in their 20s, except that only comes during your mid-life crisis. Having a well-balanced life with many interests and fully developing one's own sense of self is integral in life satisfaction. Maybe a couple years going balls to the wall is necessary, but at the end of the day a job is a job.
I don't think anyone should spend their entire twenties dicking around "finding themselves," but I also don't think everyone should spend their entire twenties following some rigid path because others think they should. I feel that it's most important to be productive in some way shape or form. So, even if it's not traditional, still have accomplishments to point to.
Agree with that. Tons of people go into banking and PE out of college and hate it - 22-30 is definitely the time to make an adjustment.
I'd say most smart people who fuck up in college usually find a way, at least the ones with a bit of motivation deep down, but who perhaps got tangled up in the wrong relationships, social circles etc. I see people going to Budapest for med school, finishing CFA, whatever it may be - it just takes a bit of time to sort out.
It's dumb to blow college and then head off backpacking, but if someone nails the GPA, EC crap and finds out they don't like finance, it's not such a bad thing to take a bit of time off.
After all, it's really hard to know what "real jobs" are like in high school and college. Most kids don't take a mature approach, they just think about the money
Well said. Always remember to have fun and never stop growing, just don't prolong the adolescence.
The problem with "living life to the fullest as a young person", is that a person's career foundation is built in the 20's. If that time was instead spent enjoying life, and living a simpler life with lots of fun and less stress, their future career/earning power is usually severely capped.
For the vast majority of people, those first 10 years will setup the next 30-40 years of their career.
As your age climbs, you have to work exponentially harder to get the same opportunities.
A really simple example: taking CFA exams when you're just out of school a year or two while young and single VS. taking CFA exams in your 30's trying to break into finance while married and may have young kids.
Having fun in college and in your 20's is great but overrated. I'm not saying that professional success and fun are mutually exclusive, but most successful people focus on career first. Amongst those in fields like finance, consulting, law, etc., this usually entails working long hours, sacrificing one's social life. But it's all worth it since success in the 20's sets you up until you're retired.
This post makes the best argument for why kids should take a gap year before college to backpack other countries.
I 100% agree.
Not only that, but so many freshmen at colleges are underprepared mentally for the next 4 years. Looking back, I should've taken a year or so off to get all the "fun" out of my system, and then focus on the career bit.
Bullet #2 is too funny.
There is also the environmental factor, it is not the same to spend your 20s in latam, the US or India. For all you think you sacrifice, it might be far less than if you were born in India or China to have a similar degree of success, and on that part I am happy of having studying both in Latam and Germany, on the one hand I know how to relax and let things happen, while on the other I know how to work very productively when needed. I believe there should be an equilibrium and that is accomplished by planning well, so you can have your timeframes well established and then enjoy your free time, its not all "discovering yourself", but having asked yourself where do you want to be in 10 years, work efficiently to get there without exaggerating, if anything that lovely free time will surely tech you many things (like how to drink and manage drunks, how to plan trips and meetings, how to deal with multiculturality, etc) and give you nice stories to tell.
Does anybody else wish they found this site as a freshman in high school? It would take off so much pressure during your 20's if you had REALLY known why getting a stellar GPA and SAT score were important. Anyways, I can't imagine waiting until I'm 22 to decide what to do with my life.
Can't you sorta do both, high finance + good social life, relationships, experiences
Beat me to it...this does not have to be an either/or question. Few things in life are.
Home schooling FTW.
Some advice I like from a very successful person I know is:
"Always find a way to take an extra day or two when you go away on business."
Although this may be a bit easier to do when you are BSD status or a partner in the company. But it makes sense.
^ +1 SB from Abdel's plantation
You can party in college and also make stellar grades. It's all about maintaining a balance and practicing good time management. I know plenty of people who go off and party when they should be studying and I also know many people who spend their Friday nights reading textbooks when they should be out having a good time! It's very possible to party too much, but it is also possible to study too much and hate your time in college.
As to the original post, I believe that your 20's is a little too late to "find yourself." You have (or should have) just spent your last four years in college figuring out what you want to do for the rest of your life AKA "finding yourself." Once you graduate, you should hopefully know what it is that you want to do and go out and do it. At the end of the day, the people that have f*cked around in their twenties may have had fun but rarely have taken something from their experiences that will set them up for the rest of lives. The people that have put their noses to the grindstone after they have graduated will (hopefully) have money in the bank, experience that will further their careers and valuable connections.
I don't think the people who mess around in their college years even have that much more fun anyway. I don't go out as much as my liberal arts roommates, sure, but I don't want to get wasted on Tuesday nights anyway. And I really do feel good when I'm being productive.
You sound like you need to have more fun. Go get wasted on a Tuesday (trust me it's great). You're going to have plenty of time to be productive once you graduate so you might as well f*ck around while you can.
Let me qualify that with 'every' Tuesday night.
"He who fails to plan, plans to fail", I completely agree with a lot of these posts. Wasting your 20s to have "fun", is useless. I'd rather be making $1M by the time I'm 35 with not much of a fun life, than work as a diving instructor for $12 an hour for the rest of my life. Even Gekko said, "Money isn't the prime asset in life, time is". Having a great GPA, won't guarantee a job, but will guarantee an interview. A career oriented person will most surely have a better future, and more women considering your more successful. So don't waste your life partying, is a social life important? Yes, but college isn't about fun entirely, it's the degree and ultimately your job that people will judge you on later in your life, rather than your threesome stories with 2 hot chicks.
You are presenting a false dichotomy. News flash: you don't need to choose between working as an unhappy slave until you're 35 or being a life guard making minimum wage. It's called finding balance and doing what makes you happy while still being productive.
If you keep the mentality that you have, you will end up burning out very quickly.
Also, I guarandamntee that there are plenty of people on this board and in the general population that wish they had threesome stories to tell, rather than a collection of TPS reports that they filed marginally better than the next guy by the time they hit 35.
That may be an extreme example, but my point is that I've seen way to many people waste their lives. I'm not against social life, in fact I believe networking is very important. But to stray from the path of your career for a girl, or doing what your friends are doing is a terrible idea, which I've seen many people do.
I do agree that one should always choose a career he is passionate about, but money never comes easy, especially if money is your passion.
The real issue is people think you can't party hard beyond 30. Look at Paul Allen ballin' in his yacht right now
Just because you work hard, doesn't mean you will be succesful. If you stay in and study on a thursday night, the guy who went out and partied might still get a better grade. I think there are just as many people who wasted their twenties in the library as there are people who wasted it in bars and at parties. My opinion is that you can do both, but you have to learn to sacrifice either aspect at the right times. It's all about time management and effort allocation.
Good post addin
Threads like this always bother me because they turn into discussions on which is better; partying or studying. It is possible to do both. The key is finding the right balance.
Whatever happened to a well rounded approach to life? America is out of BALANCE. Work, then play, then rest....what happened to this idea?
Quality post, I enjoy seeing people with experience and age give back by sharing some of these lessons.
I completely disagree with your second point, traveling in some exotic location is something I find impressive and it is something that is particularly reserved for the wealthy (kids that have some time and money to dick around with). I studied abroad in Florence during UG and just about every kid I meet was from a school such as Duke, BC, Cornell, Vandy, Penn or UVA. In turn they were also from wealthy metro area suburbs. My point being it takes some mental awareness to explore and plan ahead for some of these trips, (Something that I believe Johnny Doe from Toledo State is lacking).
About to cross the other side of the big (or little) two-oh in a couple months. (Some of) The comments were really insightful - it's great to hear from those trying to share what they've learned.
I believe I found a balance. While I doubt I'll ever be able to backpack (mayyybe summer before MBA but doubtful), I've been to places that my backpacking friends will probably never be able to afford to go but really want to go.
Much of your "success" will be determined by who you know and you're going to know a lot more people if you get out of the library.. Many of you guys sound really lame and boring and this "path" rigidity is really unfortunate. Get out and experience the world as you're only here once and if you don't take any time to enjoy it you're in for hell of a mid-life.
well, backpacking doesnt appeal to me and i strongly prefer going to exotic locales with stylish ways...
Dudes in their 20s generally fall into these categories....
1) The morons - they fucked up in college and now they're floating between english-teaching posts in Korea and cruise ship jobs
2) The late bloomers - they drank a bit too much, didn't enjoy their major, thought they fell in love, and things just never came together in college. They came out with a low GPA, took some time to think things through, and then got their shit together
3) The drivers - they knew they wanted to work in finance by the end of freshman year, buckled down, and haven't looked back. They're working as an associate post MBA and on track for VP. They continue to work stupid hours but are totally content with their lives
4) The legends - they got laid a lot in college, traveled a lot, and still managed to come out with a good GPA. They worked in finance for a few years and realized it was too structured for their liking. Now they're in business development at a cool start-up. They're still getting laid a lot.
5) The husbands and fathers - totally fucked. They have a mortgage, an irritating wife, perhaps a shorty or two, and aren't particularly happy with their work. The start-up gig doesn't pay enough (to begin with) to take care of their financial commitments. They're frustrated all the time, and to top it all off, the cute little mid-town yoga instructor is keen on getting the hips loosened up..
At the end of the day, it really depends on what you consider "wasting your 20s". Because I can see it being played from both angles:
You could easily say both guys in the examples above "wasted their 20s". One wasted a decades worth of time to advance his career, the other wasted the prime years of his life in front a computer. Only one of those guys can make up ground. You never get any younger.
As several pointed out earlier, those are extreme examples, why not just do both? It's possible to be successful early on and still maintaining a decent lifestyle.
some great points, and again to reiterate it's not necessarily impossible to strike a balance, just know where your priorities lie. Personally, I'm glad I'm looking back and saying "maybe I could've gotten where I am while having a little more fun" instead of "if only I spent a little less time on fun and gotten the better foundation for my professional career".
that being said, having your cake and eating it too is best: my signing bonus is what lets me write this from Bali, Indonesia as part of a pan-Asia trip before work. some people claimed it was a little financially reckless, but I think you can always make more money, but you can never make more time.
Party your ass off for the rest of your life money and power will come to you if you have it, if you dont you dont. Nuff said
balance is everything in life. But one thing is sure : smart people always find a way to make money, even later in life but you can never buy back time nor memories. People who are obssessed about success in their 20s don't realize that you'll never get the same friends and relationships in your life than during your high schoo/college time so yoi should certainly try to experience as much as you can and enjoy life...This is truly priceless. After all money is really useless if you can't share it...
I agree with what several people have already said about striking the right balance. However, I'd say that it is definitely better to err on the side of "didn't maximize one's social experience" rather than "didn't maximize one's foundation for future opportunities".
Assuming one isn't on either extreme end of the spectrum of social life and work/education, I would definitely prioritize studying/networking/getting a head start toward a job in finance over having the best social life possible. Whereas increasing the presence your social life takes a very small amount of effort with virtually nonexistent barriers of entry (again assuming a socially competent person), breaking into a hyper-competitive industry and succeeding requires a substantial time/effort investment and has increasingly high barriers of entry with age/position.
In college, that means going out 1-2 times a week rather than 4-5 and getting that 3.7+ GPA instead of settling for something less. If you can get a 3.7+ and black out 5 nights a week, then by all means, go for it. Sacrifice a little when you're young and the benefits often compound over a lifetime. Just remember not to sacrifice too much.
I disagree that it's possible to do both. That would put that person in the top 5-10% of all people. Having a good enough personality to be invited out every weekend and still being able to be in the top 25% of your class isn't possible for a lot of people. Most are either too nerdy to fit in socially with that many people or aren't smart enough to be in the top portion of their class without studying nonstop.
Yea so the socially awkward, but smart, will tend to say that you have to follow a certain path to get to end point A. Someone not socially awkward, but smart, can do that perfect balance and get to end point A. Then there is that person who's not too smart but everyone likes. He can still get to point A.
I think the one size fits all argument doesn't really work. People just need to figure out their strengths and weaknesses and maximize and minimize them respectively.
I think the comments are going off on what the post was originally about. It's not arguing whether or not to aim for balance, just asking whether or not you support 'wasting' your 20's and in this case, 'wasting' is defined as backpacking/etc.
With that being said, I had a conversation with a bud the other day on this topic. I found his thoughts insightful but maybe a little naive:
Just wanted to hear some opinions on this. I for one seem to be heading on the opposite spectrum of things here. I've barely finished freshman year and not even 20 yet but have traded my entire 4 months of summer for an internship on the Street (Clarification: Bay Street, and Canada's summers are 4 months). Though not a finance internship per se, I have worked with the M&A group as well as the TAS group in the company a little bit, but mostly with another group and have learned a lot of useful things for my career - namely Excel and VBA. Despite all this, seeing all my high school classmates have the time of their lives (Drinking age is 19 in Toronto), can't help but think that I'm missing out.
User who said Finding WSO early on would have helped immensely is spot on.
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