City Smackdown - Part 3: São Paulo, Brazil

After a few years abroad, I had an offer to go back to my native country, Brazil, to do some PE work. That wasn’t so long ago: the European economy was already showing signs of deceleration (oh, how I love those market-related euphemisms!). Actually, shit was hitting the fan real hard in our London-based businesses.

It seemed to me like a sound plan: accepting an offer to work for a solid international firm, doing high-impact/high-visibility work, and best of all, in a country I was really looking forward to go back to. Some have asked me whether São Paulo is an urban paradise, overflowing with money, raving nightclubs and awesome women. Well, sorta. Let’s get to it.

São Paulo, Brazil:

The first thing to realize is that working in São Paulo means working for a Brazilian business, even if it’s a sub of a global bank. São Paulo may aspire to become the “Latin American New York”, but currently it is a Brazilian hub at best. And you may have heard of all the World Bank rankings, such as “doing business in”, and “paying taxes in”. Skim through those and you will realize that Brazil is a nightmare place in terms of getting things done. Bureaucracy is among the worst in the world, and the tax system is incomprehensible. What about more mundane things like street safety and traffic? Definitely not for the faint-hearted.

Furthermore, the work culture doesn’t help those who come from abroad. Despite the fact that people are very friendly and inclusive towards foreigners, the vast majority of business is still conducted in Portuguese, and there is little to be done in São Paulo if you don’t speak the language, even at C-officer levels. Spanish is only helpful if you’re so good with languages that you can transition to Portuguese, or at least high-level “Portuñol”, in a few months.

So it’s “forget about it unless you’re Brazilian”? Definitely not. First, because when you take some time to think about cultural proximity, you quickly realize that B is the only BRIC that actually shares an alphabet with the majority of the financial world. Whatever it is you want to sell, from Q-tips to a follow-on equity offering, doing it in Brazil isn’t that much different from doing it in the US. Brazilians are somewhat Portuguese in their manners, habits and lifestyle. And yes, that means they don’t work as much as their US counterparties.

What does that all add up to? Well, I mentioned how hard it is to make it in New York, given the competition. But talent that would be rated average in NY or London, goes a long way in São Paulo. So, if you are really adaptable, are not scared of being robbed here and there sometimes, speak decent Portuguese, and perhaps most importantly, don’t mind spending a few years networking yourself into a new society, don’t think twice. São Paulo is a great option to get some international experience in a region that will probably experience higher growth and provide its financial elite with real opportunities of making it big and fast.

Oh, yes, I almost forgot the whole women/fun part. Everything you hear is true. Brazilian women are truly amazing, and São Paulo attracts - mainly through its fashion and media businesses - some of the most amazing specimens in the entire country. You may have heard it also, but in case you haven't: Brazilians have a long-standing reputation of knowing how to throw a party. Cool clubs and bars are everywhere, and if all else fails, Rio is only a 40 minute flight away!

So, how does São Paulo sound to you?

Note: It's not my intention to make this a travel guide, so I've intentionally left a bunch of stuff out. Make sure you post your questions about food, music, travel, and anything else in the comments!

 
industrial_banker:
Thanks for the description, very interesting. What about the hiring of junior bankers? Which universities do you think are targets? There are IBD teams in Rio?

The hiring of junior bankers can be illustrated by a famous quote, authored by a friend who's currently a BB VP: "There are probably more bankers in GS's FIG than in Brazil". This may not be technically true, but sends a message. The scale of the business is entirely different (think market cap / gdp, think how useful DCM can be in a bank-anchored economy, think how much sense it makes to have a restructuring group if historically the global CEO has pulled the plug and closed the Brazil sub altogether whenever a serious crisis hit).

To my knowledge, hiring doesn't target US/Europe schools, just because it is not cost efficient (qualifications are really narrow). But it is not rare that banks will interview and hire promising foreigners, who have a legitimate desire to work and build a career in Brazil. Remember that at the analyst level, if you have the right skillset, it is always easier to transfer than to network to get interviews, go through the process, succeed at it, suffer through immigration paperwork etc etc.

 
Virginia Tech 4ever:
So, do middle class, average looking white American men stand any chance with those stunning Brazilian beauties or are they destined to remain images for mastubatorial fantasies...? How easily do they fall prey to lies?

And.....go!

hmm if you pm me your email ill send a good photo that will give you lots of hope
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Virginia Tech 4ever:
So, do middle class, average looking white American men stand any chance with those stunning Brazilian beauties or are they destined to remain images for mastubatorial fantasies...? How easily do they fall prey to lies? And.....go!

(1) Yes, but you need to be good, playing field is tougher than NYC or LA. (2) Easily, but again, lie quality is quite high... if you're a top 10% liar in a Rio club, you're probably already a legend in your homeland. Seriously, forget the whole "relating" and "mimesis" approach that you would use at home. The foreigners' strongest asset is the fact that they're different.

 
Virginia Tech 4ever:
So, do middle class, average looking white American men stand any chance with those stunning Brazilian beauties or are they destined to remain images for mastubatorial fantasies...? How easily do they fall prey to lies?

And.....go!

i should do a whole post on this yeah? with photograph evidence of course
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AndyLouis:
Virginia Tech 4ever:
So, do middle class, average looking white American men stand any chance with those stunning Brazilian beauties or are they destined to remain images for mastubatorial fantasies...? How easily do they fall prey to lies?

And.....go!

i should do a whole post on this yeah? with photograph evidence of course

hahaha Brazil may not have enough positions to fill after you do this.

 

I'm actually very interested in this topic. As I'm graduating college a year sooner, I would love to spend a year in Sao Paulo. And an article like this makes me wanna go even more. I know that GS has a 1~2 years Sao Paulo internship program, but I was wondering if you know more about banking internship/job opportunities in general for international students with little Portuguese? Would it make a difference if he/she has a NYC BB IBD internship on the resume?

 
hot1590:
I know that GS has a 1~2 years Sao Paulo internship program, but I was wondering if you know more about banking internship/job opportunities in general for international students with little Portuguese? Would it make a difference if he/she has a NYC BB IBD internship on the resume?

Again, little Portuguese is a huge liability, work on it. Your chances are a tenth - or less - than if you were at least conversational. As to how to do it, you could technically be hired in NY/London/etc, get a transfer assignment, perform well, blend in and extend it indefinitely (easiest way + good labor supply/demand balance). Not sure about structured programs with job opportunities for international students... maybe F500, BB, Consulting, if at all.

More generally speaking: securing work here as a foreigner requires convincing the people in charge that the Brazil idea is not a crazy wet dream, from which you will wake up when pressure hits and your team needs you the most. It has to be realistic, serious shit, and you need to signal it credibly. How to do it? Try to create bridges, make the NYC recruiting rep talk to the SP recruiting rep, cold-emailing HR people, cold-calling, randomly Linkedin-adding people, calling and signing up at locally-based placement firms, even flying there for a couple of weeks to solidify faint relationships with some beer...

Bottom line: people will doubt your real intentions even if you signal that you're serious about it. If you don't signal, forget it.

 

Awesome, maybe we should make a WSO drinks event, im also moving to SP from europe, waiting for my Visa :).

Valor is of no service, chance rules all, and the bravest often fall by the hands of cowards. - Tacitus Dr. Nick Riviera: Hey, don't worry. You don't have to make up stories here. Save that for court!
 
Best Response

I went to Brazil a few years ago, and the language barrier was the most difficult thing to adapt to, for me, by a long shot. I went for a school trip, and a lot of us knew basic Spanish and, frankly, thought it would be like a European country where English could be substituted at basically any time...totally not the case...In fast food restaurants, casual dining, local stores, clubs, bars, etc etc we had to usually point and nod to what we wanted (and no, this wasn't in small Brazilian towns, this was in Rio and Sau Paulo).

So with my extremely limited experience compared to the OP, I found it somewhat difficult to get around. That said, the country is amazing and I'm sure post-Olympics and post-World Cup (assuming construction/development/etc. goes as planned) Brazil will become an easier place to get around.

Side question to OP: What are your thoughts on Brazil hosting both events? I'm curious/skeptical whether the country will be "ready". Mainly because of the language barrier (at least for me - typical American), I think many visitors will find it more difficult to travel there, than a European country. Also, the infrastructure there was extremely hit-or-miss. Sau Paulo's tolled roads were very nice (minus the thousands of death-defying motorcyclists) but I remember driving from Sau Paulo to Rio on extremely damaged/dangerous roads (it may have just been the route we took). Because of that, I think Azul Air (David Neeleman's Brazilian JetBlue) will really flourish during the Olympics and WC.

 
Not not a boutique:
Side question to OP: What are your thoughts on Brazil hosting both events? I'm curious/skeptical whether the country will be "ready". Mainly because of the language barrier (at least for me - typical American), I think many visitors will find it more difficult to travel there, than a European country. Also, the infrastructure there was extremely hit-or-miss. Sau Paulo's tolled roads were very nice (minus the thousands of death-defying motorcyclists) but I remember driving from Sau Paulo to Rio on extremely damaged/dangerous roads (it may have just been the route we took). Because of that, I think Azul Air (David Neeleman's Brazilian JetBlue) will really flourish during the Olympics and WC.

I guess whenever you have a huge language barrier, it is tough. I have been to Beijing, both pre- and post-2008 and the ease of getting around and traveling haven't really changed that much. At least, not because of the games. You are correct in pointing out that it can indeed be tough to travel in Brazil, especially if the quality benchmark is a Belgium-Luxembourg-Germany-Austria road trip. Our infrastructure gaps are clear and there is no time, money or labor to bring it to a high level in this little time. That being said, I think (1) we will not experience a South Africa problem, i.e., have the event-related capex commitment be so large relative to the economy as to shake macro stability and credibility at times, (2) decent basic infrastructure in the game cities will be in place and in order and (3) if visitors don't stray too far from the beaten path, they should be fine.

As for the Azul call, I doubt it. Operation is good & lean, but airport infrastructure expansion efforts will bring a huge bill, airport slot fees will go through the roof, and it will become a big fish game with debatable ROI (as usual with airlines). Not sure if Neeleman will want to play this game. I, for one, wouldn't.

 

What tips do you give to a brazilian finishing undergrad in a brazilian non target university? I study at a federal university which is a target for regional positions, but is not competitive on a national basis.

I do not see any structured program for analysts besides Itau BBA and BTG Pactual.

I guess that most of the positions are filled in by prior interns or students from target universities, but is it possible to brake into IBD coming from different parts of the country, like the Northeast? Will I depend completely on networking?

Great post by the way! Keep them coming.

 
brunoac.s:
What tips do you give to a brazilian finishing undergrad in a brazilian non target university? I study at a federal university which is a target for regional positions, but is not competitive on a national basis.

I do not see any structured program for analysts besides Itau BBA and Btg Pactual.

I guess that most of the positions are filled in by prior interns or students from target universities, but is it possible to brake into IBD coming from different parts of the country, like the Northeast? Will I depend completely on networking?

Great post by the way! Keep them coming.

It is sort of hard, yes. It doesn't mean it is impossible though. I don't know how good your grades are, how smooth your spoken English is (+Spanish, preferably) or how well together your finance shit is. But if you feel you have a good shot at it, in your shoes I'd just move to SP right upon graduation, and apply for those you mentioned, plus Bradesco BBI, and the foreign banks. Why not, you just never know. Moving without a job conveys confidence and demonstrates that you're just the sort of crazy reckless individual that ends up succeeding in IBD. Of course it helps if you are a perfectly seamless story. Dress for success, act likeable, use a top MBA-style resume layout and ACE THE INTERVIEWS.

If for some reason it doesn't work and you don't get a front-office analyst position, shoot for Private Bank, Corporate Bank, Asset Management, Asset Servicing, any crap that is even loosely related to the whole IB core activity, i.e. congregating with CEOs to originate crap that will be dumped on investors. Even PE/VC could work, since the whole IB->PE/VC/HF progression is not as natural in Brazil as it is elsewhere. I would only consider going back home if you found a front-office position in a regional Northeast office of a national bank, and your second best was some Ponzi retail brokerage scheme or retail banking in the Southeast. Good luck and keep me posted.

 
Financier4Hire:
Best shot has a Brazilian national w/ foreign degree-it seems that's the case with this Senhor. Senhor, do u care to share how much were u making in your former role ? IB activity is strong in BR, we know BT Pactual, Patria Investimentos (PE) and others with strong deal flow.

Boa Sorte !

Citizenship isn't that much important, because the paperwork can be worked around. Every company that is serious about making money in Brazil cannot fill its ranks with the local labor supply and needs people badly. Knowing the culture and having connections is what matters. Sorry, I have a no personal comp info policy. At a senior analyst level, US$150k, and at a senior associate level, US$ 300k, are the numbers that come to mind, total cash, pre-tax.

 

SenhorFinance, thanks for the info. Would like to hear your views on my situation. I have a relationship with a Brazilian girl and intend to move to Brazil because European immigration laws have become so strict. I speak Portuguese and Spanish well, almost fluently and got 7 years of experience in real estate private equity and global emerging market equities at a boutique US investment firm. Education: CFA + MiF-degree. What do you think the chances are that I find a good job in the financial services industry and what is the appropriate way to start (i.e. through headhunters or calling companies directly)? Keen to hear your thoughts.

 
TheKid1:
Great read. I really need to visit Brazil.

Edit, I just read your first post, that you have worked in IB, PE S&T and MGMT Consulting. Maybe one day you can write about your experience in each, should make an interesting read.

Out of three cities which women are the most fun and easy to get with?

Will do eventually, thanks for the suggestion.

Your question is sort of tough. The contest is between São Paulo and NYC... My last relationship was with a NYC girl but São Paulo women are typically Brazilian, and they know how to be tough at times. You know what they say about "the harder they come".

 
Improving:
I heard that either a top 10 US MBA or a CFA basically equal a free job for portuguese speakers there. Is this true to any extent?

Free job is sort of strong wording. You're right in that getting a job isn't that hard, given the scarcity of qualified labor. Going up the ranks takes a bit more than that.

 

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