Financial Regulation and Gun Control...sisters at arms?

We seem to be living in the age of regulation, as every day that passes sees more lobbying and pushing for the iron hand to tighten its grasp.

Today's Bloomberg editorial piece by Jeffrey Miron , makes a great comparison between the war cry for increased 2nd Amendment erosion and the proven failure of The War on Drugs.

I see a different correlation, however...

I see any attempts to abolish the 2nd Amendment aligned (theoretically, at least) with the ideology of FinReg. Perhaps the ultimate "correlation by causation" runaway train of thought.


Bad thing happen in markets. Markets bad thing. Oogah boogah.

Bad thing happen from gun. Gun must go. Ooogah boogah.

xxxooo Your Intellectual Superiors

Though a modified automatic pistol with an extended clip and a securitized mortgage bundle seem to have nothing to do with one another, I would argue they are one and the same...

Namely, the exemplification of the Darwinist nature of our organism. The proof that life indeed must be zero sum.

I don't believe taking away the hunter's bow, will make him any less likely to kill.

In fact, I think it will only make him more violent and bloodthirsty. Prone to seek thrill, vengeance and fulfillment of his desire and need in more dire fashion.

What's your take on the 2nd Amendment in light of the recent Arizona shootings?

Is this all a scam to further push the Brady Bill mentality?

Is it knee-jerk ism (seemingly the dominant ideology of our times, IMHO)?

Are guns really the problem?

Will further gun control and eventual abolition of the right to bare arms bring us that long promised peace?

Peace, which ironically...is the stated motivation for all wars.

 

Well I see this two ways. Guns kill. People kill. But in the end people are dying. I think changing the second amendment making it illegal for people to carry guns will probably stop maybe >1% of gun crimes committed in the USA. In the hood where someone is shot on a daily basis most of the times these guns are acquired illegally so no law is going to stop that from happening. But even taking away guns doesn't change the mindset of people if someone is a horrible individual they are a horrible individual hell bent on causing havoc... it isn't hard to learn how to create a bomb..hell you can go google it. This is just like taxes raising taxes isn't going to decrease the budget if we just keep spending frivolously. I view it the same way as gun control you can take a gun away from a mad man but he is still a mad man he will find something else.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee WSO is not your personal search function.
 

Ooogah boogah

hahahaha

I'm wondering if the way to reduce crime in the long term is to start promoting the things that people who DON'T committ crimes do: make the case to gang kids that getting a job, family, useful interests are ultimately going to get them more out of life than the s**t they're doing now. Jailing people is great after something's been done, but the old yarn 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' is sadly lacking from the current approach to crime......

Attempting to legislate guns out of existence, or market downturns too - well, that's just naive.

Get busy living
 
UFOinsider:
Ooogah boogah

hahahaha

I'm wondering if the way to reduce crime in the long term is to start promoting the things that people who DON'T committ crimes do: make the case to gang kids that getting a job, family, useful interests are ultimately going to get them more out of life than the s**t they're doing now. Jailing people is great after something's been done, but the old yarn 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' is sadly lacking from the current approach to crime......

Attempting to legislate guns out of existence, or market downturns too - well, that's just naive.

Gangs have a competitive advantage dealing drugs and use violence to support their activities. Removing one of the weapons doesn't stop the violence. Finally, sitting them down and explaining a legit job they can get pays $10 an hour 9-5 and dealing drugs pays them several hundred / thousand in a few hours isn't going to sound very enticing for playing it straight.

 
LBT:
UFOinsider:
Ooogah boogah

hahahaha

I'm wondering if the way to reduce crime in the long term is to start promoting the things that people who DON'T committ crimes do: make the case to gang kids that getting a job, family, useful interests are ultimately going to get them more out of life than the s**t they're doing now. Jailing people is great after something's been done, but the old yarn 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' is sadly lacking from the current approach to crime......

Attempting to legislate guns out of existence, or market downturns too - well, that's just naive.

Gangs have a competitive advantage dealing drugs and use violence to support their activities. Removing one of the weapons doesn't stop the violence. Finally, sitting them down and explaining a legit job they can get pays $10 an hour 9-5 and dealing drugs pays them several hundred / thousand in a few hours isn't going to sound very enticing for playing it straight.

What says these kids will only ever make $10 an hour? What is the long term solution?

Get busy living
 
LBT:
UFOinsider:
Ooogah boogah

hahahaha

I'm wondering if the way to reduce crime in the long term is to start promoting the things that people who DON'T committ crimes do: make the case to gang kids that getting a job, family, useful interests are ultimately going to get them more out of life than the s**t they're doing now. Jailing people is great after something's been done, but the old yarn 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' is sadly lacking from the current approach to crime......

Attempting to legislate guns out of existence, or market downturns too - well, that's just naive.

Gangs have a competitive advantage dealing drugs and use violence to support their activities. Removing one of the weapons doesn't stop the violence. Finally, sitting them down and explaining a legit job they can get pays $10 an hour 9-5 and dealing drugs pays them several hundred / thousand in a few hours isn't going to sound very enticing for playing it straight.

If common street pushers really could make thousands of dollars in a few hours, or even make 6 figure incomes by dealing drugs; would the ghettos look like ghettos?

Actually, that is a myth that they make that much money. But I like how you have put it into the context of microeconomics. The organization of a gang is not unlike that of a company. Pushing something on the street is an entry-level job, or close to it. You are at the closest risk to cops, rival gangs, or crazy customers. The guys at that level are not making thousands. You have to move up in the company (gang) first. What it gives you is an opportunity to make something big. It is a few people at the top that can make that much money. Whereas, becoming a manager of a McDonald's still means working at McDonald's.

 

Make gun ownership compulsory, and your gun crime rate drops to zero. Look at the town in Georgia where everyone is required to have a loaded gun in the house. Zero crime rate.

Switzerland is another example. Though they've scaled back a few of their gun freedoms over the past decade, gun ownership is largely compulsory in Switzerland and the gun crime rate is zero.

More guns are the answer, not less.

Conversely, financial regulation is intended to thwart mischief, and was very effective in that regard for the 60 or so years in which it was correctly applied (1934-1994).

 
Edmundo Braverman:
Make gun ownership compulsory, and your gun crime rate drops to zero. Look at the town in Georgia where everyone is required to have a loaded gun in the house. Zero crime rate.

Switzerland is another example. Though they've scaled back a few of their gun freedoms over the past decade, gun ownership is largely compulsory in Switzerland and the gun crime rate is zero.

More guns are the answer, not less.

Conversely, financial regulation is intended to thwart mischief, and was very effective in that regard for the 60 or so years in which it was correctly applied (1934-1994).

Yep, I wish I had a gun on me when that nut in Arizona started shooting.......

Get busy living
 

Edmundo, again I am in complete agreement with you.

I own several guns and carry a gun (I have a CHL) almost all the time. Criminals don't become criminals by buying a gun legally(mostly). Secondly, if they want a gun, they're gonna get it no matter the law. Hence, CRIMINALS.

 
txjustin:
Edmundo, again I am in complete agreement with you.

I own several guns and carry a gun (I have a CHL) almost all the time. Criminals don't become criminals by buying a gun legally(mostly). Secondly, if they want a gun, they're gonna get it no matter the law. Hence, CRIMINALS.

b/c i realised he had a TX in his name

 
blastoise:
txjustin:
Edmundo, again I am in complete agreement with you.

I own several guns and carry a gun (I have a CHL) almost all the time. Criminals don't become criminals by buying a gun legally(mostly). Secondly, if they want a gun, they're gonna get it no matter the law. Hence, CRIMINALS.

b/c i realised he had a TX in his name

This is hilarious!!

 
txjustin:
Edmundo, again I am in complete agreement with you.

I own several guns and carry a gun (I have a CHL) almost all the time. Criminals don't become criminals by buying a gun legally(mostly). Secondly, if they want a gun, they're gonna get it no matter the law. Hence, CRIMINALS.

What do you usually carry? I tend to go with a PF-9, but even then carrying that is a pain since I don't use an IWB holster.

 
LeoPTY:
txjustin:
Edmundo, again I am in complete agreement with you.

I own several guns and carry a gun (I have a CHL) almost all the time. Criminals don't become criminals by buying a gun legally(mostly). Secondly, if they want a gun, they're gonna get it no matter the law. Hence, CRIMINALS.

What do you usually carry? I tend to go with a PF-9, but even then carrying that is a pain since I don't use an IWB holster.

Springfield XDSC 9MM IWB and I just got a Ruger LCP for the hot summers and being able to pocket carry it when necessary. Ultimately I'm going to move up to a .45 (probably 1911 style), but I'm content with what I have for now.

 

If you think crack dealers and gangs lead to fortune for these guys you HAVE to read freakonomics...learn yourself something

Where are eok and Jerome by the way...they'll love this

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
happypantsmcgee:
Where are eok and Jerome by the way...they'll love this

I do love this topic and I think the MMM is dead wrong in regards to saying the call to greater regulation isn't comparable to our FAILED war on drugs. If you were to investigate the initial reasons (1950) for our unconstitutional prohibition of "drugs", you would see a lot of racist fear mongering about black man becoming superstrong after toking and raping white women. The fear mongers were able to effectively create a policy that is so stupid and ineffective that it is a model for decrepit public policy at every single school of public policy. Even today, when there is a massive body of knowledge showing that the war on drugs is an epic failure, people like MMM will say that the policy should be in place because... "its not good for you".

The same can be said about those fear mongering about extended clips and handguns. Greater regulations on firearms will do nothing to stop crime but the call to arms is clear and, ab initio, surprisingly fresh and logical. Regardless of the information showing that only a scintilla of solved gun homicides are done with legally obtained guns, there are still people, in this care MMM's counterparts, pushing for a policy that is invariably stupid.

The WSJ article is spot on!!!

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 

If guns kill people, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat. A person should be held accountable for their actions, not the means they chose to utilize. Let's just sit back and watch how congress is going to use this tragedy to help forward their own political agendas. They've been doing it on the hill for decades.

 
blue_horseshoe70820:
If guns kill people, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat. A person should be held accountable for their actions, not the means they chose to utilize. Let's just sit back and watch how congress is going to use this tragedy to help forward their own political agendas. They've been doing it on the hill for decades.

Should the gun shop be held accountable for selling weapons to dangerous people? Are they not responsible for putting others in harms way through not be willing able or capable to refuse the sale?

It's probably not a good idea to give the drunk person a car to drive in if you know they are drunk. I wouldn't let a drunk person drive my car, nor would I sell an insane person an automatic firearm.

At this rate, the logic to world peace is that everyone should have a nuke.

 

I know its been said above, but this has been on my mind.

When I heard about tightening gun control because of the shootings all I could do was laugh. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

If anything, we should all be required to register for a gun when we turn 18. Look at Switzerland; a nation with one of the highest gun-ownerhsip % per capita and some of the lowest crime rates of any nation in the world. People simply don't attack people because they know the consequences.

The government will never be able to 100% limit gun ownership. They will always be fighting an uphill battle; ie the war on drugs. The more they limit gun ownership the more opportunity it gives for criminals to continue to kill, and the more defenseless the nation becomes.

Just my $.02.

 
mxc:
For all the respect I pay you guys, you're a bunch of crazy, gun-wielding lunatics.

Good kisses from London,

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
 

I'm ok with commonsense gun control, such as required background checks or making it illegal for mentally disturbed persons from obtaining weapons. However, I just don't get the Democrats on this issue, God bless 'em. They'll make arguments that Republicans oppose making it illegal to carry guns in a church or a park or a bar and therefore aren't rational in their beliefs on gun control. I, I just don't understand this type of legislation. It's like Democrats somehow believe that a potential murderer will be deterred from murder by a statute banning the carry of firearms in a park, a crime carrying far less punishment than murder. Or it's as if they believe not having a statute banning firearms in a park will make an otherwise law abiding citizen become a murderer. It's nonsensical! This is where the 2 sides I think really diverge--you've got one side that wants to micromanage and bureaucratize gun ownership rather than focusing on actual, ya know, gun crime.

In addition, you've got one side of the debate that flagrantly ignores the U.S. Constitution AND RECENT court rulings. For example, after the Supreme Court ruled that the District of Columbia couldn't pass a blanket ban on guns because it was unconstitutional, the city of Chicago turned around and banned guns. Again, I just don't understand this concept that you ignore the rule of law if you disagree with it. Thomas Jefferson himself, in the Declaration of Independence, said that you don't rebel over light matters (i.e. you don't die on every hill). And flagrantly ignoring the law is rebellion.

Array
 
Virginia Tech 4ever:
I'm ok with commonsense gun control, such as required background checks or making it illegal for mentally disturbed persons from obtaining weapons. However, I just don't get the Democrats on this issue, God bless 'em. They'll make arguments that Republicans oppose making it illegal to carry guns in a church or a park or a bar and therefore aren't rational in their beliefs on gun control. I, I just don't understand this type of legislation. It's like Democrats somehow believe that a potential murderer will be deterred from murder by a statute banning the carry of firearms in a park, a crime carrying far less punishment than murder. Or it's as if they believe not having a statute banning firearms in a park will make an otherwise law abiding citizen become a murderer. It's nonsensical! This is where the 2 sides I think really diverge--you've got one side that wants to micromanage and bureaucratize gun ownership rather than focusing on actual, ya know, gun crime.

In addition, you've got one side of the debate that flagrantly ignores the U.S. Constitution AND RECENT court rulings. For example, after the Supreme Court ruled that the District of Columbia couldn't pass a blanket ban on guns because it was unconstitutional, the city of Chicago turned around and banned guns. Again, I just don't understand this concept that you ignore the rule of law if you disagree with it. Thomas Jefferson himself, in the Declaration of Independence, said that you don't rebel over light matters (i.e. you don't die on every hill). And flagrantly ignoring the law is rebellion.

I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of opponents to gun ownership have grown up in the city and have never seen, let alone fired, a gun. You then get people with an absolutely phobic response to firearms. You can see this in scenarios like Chicago where handguns are banned, despite the law of the land saying otherwise.

edit: on an unrelated note. After I posted this, my ads on this site are all for gun-related merchants lol.

 
LeoPTY:
I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of opponents to gun ownership have grown up in the city and have never seen, let alone fired, a gun. You then get people with an absolutely phobic response to firearms. You can see this in scenarios like Chicago where handguns are banned, despite the law of the land saying otherwise.
This is just nitpicking, but SCOTUS actually overturned that Chicago law... you can own handguns in Chicago now.
 

Let me lay some knowledge on you children real quick like...

Kimber Ultra Carry is clearly best in class in terms of overall quality, reliability, etc. but it certainly isn't cheap

Sig Sauer P220 is quality but the double action to single action conversion is weird, the single action break pressure on the trigger is like 3 pounds.

Beretta 92FS is glorified M9 which the military issues to guys in the field, solid but a bit large to carry

For my money, you carry a revolver and here is why. Of course it isn't sexy but it won't jam or misfire. I know all of you cool guys think that doesn't matter because you're Rambo but if a revolver misfires you just keep pulling the trigger and it keeps spinning. Not only that, but you can get your female friend a pink or blue one to match yours...hech of a birthday gift if you ask me.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
happypantsmcgee:
Let me lay some knowledge on you children real quick like...

Kimber Ultra Carry is clearly best in class in terms of overall quality, reliability, etc. but it certainly isn't cheap

Sig Sauer P220 is quality but the double action to single action conversion is weird, the single action break pressure on the trigger is like 3 pounds.

Beretta 92FS is glorified M9 which the military issues to guys in the field, solid but a bit large to carry

For my money, you carry a revolver and here is why. Of course it isn't sexy but it won't jam or misfire. I know all of you cool guys think that doesn't matter because you're Rambo but if a revolver misfires you just keep pulling the trigger and it keeps spinning. Not only that, but you can get your female friend a pink or blue one to match yours...hech of a birthday gift if you ask me.

My next pistol is gonna be a hammerless revolver so I can keep it bedside and have confidence my fiance can use it easily. I have my eye on a 642 airweight. Not sure yet though.

 
happypantsmcgee:
For my money, you carry a revolver and here is why. Of course it isn't sexy but it won't jam or misfire. I know all of you cool guys think that doesn't matter because you're Rambo but if a revolver misfires you just keep pulling the trigger and it keeps spinning. Not only that, but you can get your female friend a pink or blue one to match yours...hech of a birthday gift if you ask me.

Haha, I would've already got a revolver, or any firearm for that matter, but New York sucks...

 

Owning a guy is at the cornerstone of this country. We already have plenty of "common sense" gun regulation. Any more is just a veiled attempt at eliminating guns.

Thank god for the NRA. If only we had a group that was as powerful and focused on protecting the constitution and limiting the power of the government.

Anyone notice that the people who turn to the government the most are usually the ones who bear none of the burden the government imposes ?

I really want to compare the % of people on welfare or in poverty with the increase in nanny state behavior.

 
ANT:
Owning a guy is at the cornerstone of this country...

ANT, where you living now...San Fran?

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Whoa, LOL.

EOK, did you really just say our war on drugs is because we are afraid of the "super strong" black man raping white women?

Dude, you take the cake. I don't do drugs, it is real simple. Little thing called self control. If black people didn't do drugs, cops would have nothing to arrest them with. You can complain about the law all you want, but if you obey it you will be fine.

Like bitching about speeding, you do it, you pay for it.

Lawful gun ownership is part of America. Don't like guns, don't own them. When you start infringing on my rights and trying to project your opinions and beliefs onto me, then we have a problem.

Gotta love liberals. Always trying to force other people to live their way of life. A group that preaches tolerance is actually the most intolerant of them all.

 
ANT:
Whoa, LOL.

EOK, did you really just say our war on drugs is because we are afraid of the "super strong" black man raping white women?

Dude, you take the cake. I don't do drugs, it is real simple. Little thing called self control. If black people didn't do drugs, cops would have nothing to arrest them with. You can complain about the law all you want, but if you obey it you will be fine.

Like bitching about speeding, you do it, you pay for it.

Lawful gun ownership is part of America. Don't like guns, don't own them. When you start infringing on my rights and trying to project your opinions and beliefs onto me, then we have a problem.

Gotta love liberals. Always trying to force other people to live their way of life. A group that preaches tolerance is actually the most intolerant of them all.

I said fear mongering was the reason why drugs are illegal, the same reason why many push to make guns, extended mags, etc illegal.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 

Having a right to bear arms means accepting that some people might be killed by guns. Not a big deal. What happened in Arizona was a crime, the person was caught and we move on. No need to infringe on the rights of 350MM Americans because a couple people were shot.

 
blastoise:
what you guys think about rocket launches ?

Better for guerilla warfare, actually. I was more curious as to what the consensus was towards ICBM's.

He severed the chains of the masses, brought them liberty, The sun of Korea today, democratic and free. For the Twenty Points united we stand fast, Over our fair homeland spring has come at last!
 

Not arguing either way, but interesting fact I read earlier today:

More Americans were killed by guns in the 18 years between 1979 and 1997 than died in all of America's wars since its independence (WW1, WW2, Vietnam, etc).

Makes you think....

 

I have to put myself in this discussion too good to be pass on.

1) If someone shoots at you, the chance of dying is (maybe) 70%. The chance of getting killed with a knife is smaller, with a car is smaller, with anything else is smaller. That said, a gun purpose is to kill, nothing else, you don't use a gun to drive you somewhere, to help you in cooking.

Because guns are used to kill (at least 90% of the time), one can understand the fear around them

2) Swiss laws are fantastic. If everyone had a gun in America, and can use it properly, I am sure it would have put a damp in these killings However: America's education level is lower than Switzerland. We all know there are some people who are just not smart enough to realize the consequences of their actions. Also, Switzerland takes care of their crazies, by paying a ton of taxes for that. It would be foolish to think that we would be doing the same here. Finally, the biggest gun users (legally or illegally) in the US are in the guetthos; places where drugs dealing are prevalent. Everyone in the guetto have a gun. It has not solved the problem.

I will agree that people kill, not just the gun however, America is ill prepared to utilize this instrument.

 
jeremydos:
1) If someone shoots at you, the chance of dying is (maybe) 70%. The chance of getting killed with a knife is smaller, with a car is smaller, with anything else is smaller. That said, a gun purpose is to kill, nothing else, you don't use a gun to drive you somewhere, to help you in cooking.

Because guns are used to kill (at least 90% of the time), one can understand the fear around them

2) Swiss laws are fantastic. If everyone had a gun in America, and can use it properly, I am sure it would have put a damp in these killings However: America's education level is lower than Switzerland. We all know there are some people who are just not smart enough to realize the consequences of their actions. Also, Switzerland takes care of their crazies, by paying a ton of taxes for that. It would be foolish to think that we would be doing the same here. Finally, the biggest gun users (legally or illegally) in the US are in the guetthos; places where drugs dealing are prevalent. Everyone in the guetto have a gun. It has not solved the problem.

bahahahahahahaha you seriously need to stop watching terrible action movies and playing with GI Joes dude. 70% chance of dying if someone shoots AT you?!?! You have about a 20% chance they'll actually hit you and that's IF they fire the gun once its drawn on you.

Guns are used to kill 90% of the time? 90% of what time? Being that 100 times the amount of rounds are spent on targets every year as are spent by people committing crimes, I think you mean 90% of the time people are killing paper.

The biggest gun users are in the Ghetto? Clearly you have never been to Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, the Carolinas, or anywhere west of the Mississippi other than the West Coast.

Stop taking your information from Jason Statham movies and read a book kid.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

A guns purpose is to fire a projectile. Humans use it in a variety of ways. Just as a knifes purpose is to cut things, whatever things a human wants.

I agree with the education level. Although, I would like to see some data on this. As far as I know, the USA and Europe have the same compulsory level of education (K-12). We have a tad more diverse population than Switzerland though. If you look at what group of people are committing the most gun violence, you will know what I am saying.

 
Edmundo Braverman:
ANT:
We have a tad more diverse population than Switzerland though. If you look at what group of people are committing the most gun violence, you will know what I am saying.

LOL.

I didn't think we could say things like that anymore.

I'm sure he was only implying socioeconomic class.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

PROBLEM: Firearms pose a public health threat to all racial and ethnic communities in the United States, and in particular to the African-American community. DID YOU KNOW? African-Americans have the highest rates of firearm death (including homicides, suicides and unintentional shooting deaths) among racial and ethnic groups in the U.S.

In 2007, the firearm death rate for African-Americans was 21.5 firearm deaths per 100,000 population. The second and third highest firearm death rates were among Whites (9.4), and American-Indian/Alaska Natives (9.0) (National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCIPC)).

African-American children and teens are almost five times as likely as their white peers to be killed by firearms (11.30 per 100,000 African-American youth vs. 2.31 per 100,000 white youth) (NCIPC)).

African-American males ages 15 to 19 are almost 5 times as likely as their white peers and more than twice as likely as their Hispanic or American-Indian/Alaska Native peers to be killed by firearms (Children’s Defense Fund, p. 16, 2009).

In 2008, in addition to fatalities, 30,984 African-Americans were treated for firearm injuries in emergency rooms, followed with 19,338 Whites, and 16,903 Hispanics (other categories not detailed; rates not available) (NCIPC). To see a chart of firearm deaths and injuries by race/ethnicity and intent, click here.

DID YOU KNOW? Gun homicides are responsible for most firearm deaths among African-American and Hispanic-Americans, whereas gun suicides account for most firearm deaths among Whites and American-Indian/Alaska Natives.

In 2007, 84 percent of African-American gun deaths were from homicide (NCIPC).

In 2007, 68 percent of Hispanic-American gun deaths were from homicide (NCIPC).

In 2007, African-Americans represented 13 percent of the population yet accounted for 49 percent of all homicide victims (Langley, 2010).

In 2007, 82 percent of African-American homicide victims were killed with guns (Langley, 2010).

From 1999 to 2005, while the national homicide rate was stable, the firearm homicide rate for African-American men ages 25-44 increased by a third in large cities and suburbs (Guoquing, 2008).

In 2007, 80 percent of gun deaths among Whites were from suicide (NCIPC).

In 2007, 56 percent of American-Indian/Alaska Native firearm deaths were from suicide (NCIPC).

For all ages, the most urban counties have 1.03 times the adjusted firearm death rate of the most rural counties (Branas, p. 1750). This means that, relative to their populations, the most rural and the most urban counties have roughly the same number of gun deaths. Rural counties have more gun suicides; urban areas have more gun homicides.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/gunviolence/factsethnicity


Who would of thought the Brady Campaign would of been good for anything.

I love their logic. Instead of stopping violence they go after the tools. We don't care if murders are free, as long as they cannot get a gun to murder with.

Throw away a Constitutional right because "some" people cannot handle guns. That is why we have jails.

--- I can't wait for the cries of racism to inundate this thread.

 
ANT:
PROBLEM: Firearms pose a public health threat to all racial and ethnic communities in the United States, and in particular to the African-American community. DID YOU KNOW? African-Americans have the highest rates of firearm death (including homicides, suicides and unintentional shooting deaths) among racial and ethnic groups in the U.S.

In 2007, the firearm death rate for African-Americans was 21.5 firearm deaths per 100,000 population. The second and third highest firearm death rates were among Whites (9.4), and American-Indian/Alaska Natives (9.0) (National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCIPC)).

African-American children and teens are almost five times as likely as their white peers to be killed by firearms (11.30 per 100,000 African-American youth vs. 2.31 per 100,000 white youth) (NCIPC)).

African-American males ages 15 to 19 are almost 5 times as likely as their white peers and more than twice as likely as their Hispanic or American-Indian/Alaska Native peers to be killed by firearms (Children’s Defense Fund, p. 16, 2009).

In 2008, in addition to fatalities, 30,984 African-Americans were treated for firearm injuries in emergency rooms, followed with 19,338 Whites, and 16,903 Hispanics (other categories not detailed; rates not available) (NCIPC). To see a chart of firearm deaths and injuries by race/ethnicity and intent, click here.

DID YOU KNOW? Gun homicides are responsible for most firearm deaths among African-American and Hispanic-Americans, whereas gun suicides account for most firearm deaths among Whites and American-Indian/Alaska Natives.

In 2007, 84 percent of African-American gun deaths were from homicide (NCIPC).

In 2007, 68 percent of Hispanic-American gun deaths were from homicide (NCIPC).

In 2007, African-Americans represented 13 percent of the population yet accounted for 49 percent of all homicide victims (Langley, 2010).

In 2007, 82 percent of African-American homicide victims were killed with guns (Langley, 2010).

From 1999 to 2005, while the national homicide rate was stable, the firearm homicide rate for African-American men ages 25-44 increased by a third in large cities and suburbs (Guoquing, 2008).

In 2007, 80 percent of gun deaths among Whites were from suicide (NCIPC).

In 2007, 56 percent of American-Indian/Alaska Native firearm deaths were from suicide (NCIPC).

For all ages, the most urban counties have 1.03 times the adjusted firearm death rate of the most rural counties (Branas, p. 1750). This means that, relative to their populations, the most rural and the most urban counties have roughly the same number of gun deaths. Rural counties have more gun suicides; urban areas have more gun homicides.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/gunviolence/factsethnicity


Who would of thought the Brady Campaign would of been good for anything.

I love their logic. Instead of stopping violence they go after the tools. We don't care if murders are free, as long as they cannot get a gun to murder with.

Throw away a Constitutional right because "some" people cannot handle guns. That is why we have jails.

--- I can't wait for the cries of racism to inundate this thread.

Sounds like the bullets are the racists ones if you ask me.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

This is all a question about human capital. Anthony posted some depressing information about black males and gun violence. Most of the gun violence in America is committed against black males by black males. If you couple this fact with less than half of black males graduating from college, you see that this is just a question of the denegration of the household and kids taking to the street.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 
eokpar02:
This is all a question about human capital. Anthony posted some depressing information about black males and gun violence. Most of the gun violence in America is committed against black males by black males. If you couple this fact with less than half of black males graduating from college, you see that this is just a question of the denegration of the household and kids taking to the street.

Racist

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

If you take into consideration that 1 in 5 Americans have a mental illness, widespread gun ownership doesn't look as nice anymore, does it?

the second amendment isn't a law of physics. The paradigms of the universe won't be perplexed to oblivion if we change the 2nd amendment. Keep in mind that the constiution was written in 1787... a long time ago. Lots of things changed; now you've got police with a response time of between 3-6 minutes.No need for that M4 or Golden Eagle in the safe.

Also look at the number of people who die annually from the number of gun accidents in the United States. I understand that this can be reduced through proper education, but still, it's a risk.

In short, gun ownership should be abolished. No need to pullout your compact semi-auto if you're getting robbed. Just give him whatever he wants. Let's say that you do pullout you're gun...is he going to stare at you? no, he's going to shoot you. Let's say you just gave him your wallet...he's going to walk away slowly and then run. What did you lose? a few benjamins probably, and credit cards that can be cancelled and re-ordered in one phone call each.

^see? much simpler than the hassle of keeping a gun on you

just my 2 cents

Greed is Good.
 
konig:
If you take into consideration that 1 in 5 Americans have a mental illness, widespread gun ownership doesn't look as nice anymore, does it?

the second amendment isn't a law of physics. The paradigms of the universe won't be perplexed to oblivion if we change the 2nd amendment. Keep in mind that the constiution was written in 1787... a long time ago. Lots of things changed; now you've got police with a response time of between 3-6 minutes.No need for that M4 or Golden Eagle in the safe.

Also look at the number of people who die annually from the number of gun accidents in the United States. I understand that this can be reduced through proper education, but still, it's a risk.

In short, gun ownership should be abolished. No need to pullout your compact semi-auto if you're getting robbed. Just give him whatever he wants. Let's say that you do pullout you're gun...is he going to stare at you? no, he's going to shoot you. Let's say you just gave him your wallet...he's going to walk away slowly and then run. What did you lose? a few benjamins probably, and credit cards that can be cancelled and re-ordered in one phone call each.

^see? much simpler than the hassle of keeping a gun on you

just my 2 cents

You might be the dumbest person on WSO...yes, no one ever takes someone's wallet and THEN shoots them. Or shoots them just to take their wallet. And certainly no one has ever pulled a gun and stopped a robbery.

I have a prescription for ADD medicine so, by definition, I fall into your category of Mental Illness. I have had/been around guns my whole life without accidentally shooting someone.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
happypantsmcgee:
konig:
If you take into consideration that 1 in 5 Americans have a mental illness, widespread gun ownership doesn't look as nice anymore, does it?

the second amendment isn't a law of physics. The paradigms of the universe won't be perplexed to oblivion if we change the 2nd amendment. Keep in mind that the constiution was written in 1787... a long time ago. Lots of things changed; now you've got police with a response time of between 3-6 minutes.No need for that M4 or Golden Eagle in the safe.

Also look at the number of people who die annually from the number of gun accidents in the United States. I understand that this can be reduced through proper education, but still, it's a risk.

In short, gun ownership should be abolished. No need to pullout your compact semi-auto if you're getting robbed. Just give him whatever he wants. Let's say that you do pullout you're gun...is he going to stare at you? no, he's going to shoot you. Let's say you just gave him your wallet...he's going to walk away slowly and then run. What did you lose? a few benjamins probably, and credit cards that can be cancelled and re-ordered in one phone call each.

^see? much simpler than the hassle of keeping a gun on you

just my 2 cents

You might be the dumbest person on WSO...yes, no one ever takes someone's wallet and THEN shoots them. Or shoots them just to take their wallet. And certainly no one has ever pulled a gun and stopped a robbery.

I have a prescription for ADD medicine so, by definition, I fall into your category of Mental Illness. I have had/been around guns my whole life without accidentally shooting someone.

Those two comments are quite strange; but I will refrain from calling people dumb, since I don't think I am the smartest person here. But I have to rebuke this sentence: "I have a prescription for ADD medicine so, by definition, I fall into your category of Mental Illness. I have had/been around guns my whole life without accidentally shooting someone." So essentially your past experience is a good indicator for everyone else experience? Have you taken any science classes in your life? Can someone have a discussion without name calling and with reasonable arguments?

As far as mental illnesses, here are some numbers from the NIH: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-di…

If you think you can control people's behavior and have a mechanism that will stop rogue gun owners (or if you want people who should not own a gun) to kill recklessly, well, lay it down. It makes better discussion. The fact is when someone dies, by accident, or not, they die, and will not come back.

 
konig:
If you take into consideration that 1 in 5 Americans have a mental illness, widespread gun ownership doesn't look as nice anymore, does it?

the second amendment isn't a law of physics. The paradigms of the universe won't be perplexed to oblivion if we change the 2nd amendment. Keep in mind that the constiution was written in 1787... a long time ago. Lots of things changed; now you've got police with a response time of between 3-6 minutes.No need for that M4 or Golden Eagle in the safe.

Also look at the number of people who die annually from the number of gun accidents in the United States. I understand that this can be reduced through proper education, but still, it's a risk.

In short, gun ownership should be abolished. No need to pullout your compact semi-auto if you're getting robbed. Just give him whatever he wants. Let's say that you do pullout you're gun...is he going to stare at you? no, he's going to shoot you. Let's say you just gave him your wallet...he's going to walk away slowly and then run. What did you lose? a few benjamins probably, and credit cards that can be cancelled and re-ordered in one phone call each.

^see? much simpler than the hassle of keeping a gun on you

just my 2 cents

Funny thing, when our parents were in school no one had ADHD...they were just misbehaving, got a slap on the back of the hand and learned to sit still. Now every freaking child has some sort of ADHD or Autism, etc and needs to be medicated. So I will call BS on the 1 in 5 people have "mental illnesses" claim.

I'm a huge fan of not diagnosing people with slight disorders because I feel like it only acts as a catalyst for more pronounced symptoms and ultimately excuses (read: less and less personal responsibility).

Also, while you were looking up your statistics, did you happen to run across any numbers indicating the likelihood of "only being robbed" vs being robbed and/or pistol whipped and/or beaten and/or raped and/or murdered? I would bet good money the chances of being robbed plus one of the other aforementioned actions is greater now than ever before. Some of you folks need to walk out of the movie theater and head out into the real world where people don't pull a gun and tell you to 'stick 'em up', they KILL you.

Oddly, for the last 27 years of my life I mistakenly thought I lived in America...a place where I wasn't forced to give up my wallet, a few Benjamins and my credit cards every time somebody asked/told me to. The government, at no level, can provide for my safety 100% of the time. Take a look at the recent snow storm in the NE. People were dying left and right because the response times were in excess of 24 hours in a number of cases. Granted many of those examples were medical emergencies, but it stands to reason if an ambulance can't make it to your house to save your birthing wife and newborn child, the police aren't going to be able to come and stop a mugger/robber...so I'm not buying the "no guns because of a 3-6 minute response time".

I have a question for you...How long after I mug you and pistol whip you in the face does it take for the police to arrive once you have place your emergency call??

3-6 minutes? Is that your final answer??

WRONG!!!

It's a trick question...I just robbed your ass so you don't have a phone anymore to place the call.

I know many, and fully support our law enforcement officials and I think they typically do the best they can given strained resources and lofty goals but like the old say goes, "Police: when seconds count, they're only minutes away".

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 
Best Response

The link you provided specifically lists ADD/ADHD as mental illnesses. My point was that the 1/5 number that is so often used to talk about the quantity of mentally ill people in this country and, by extension, the danger of having guns readily available is ridiculous. As for your comment, 'have you ever taken a science class in your life?' Yes I have. I also worked in an Acute Psych Ward in a state hospital for 3 years and even after that, I STILL think that universally less constrictive gun ownership is the best way to go.

Thank you for explaining what death is to me. After my Dad died and multiple years in the military, I really needed some partially literate 19 year old to explain it to me.

Finally "Can someone has a discussion without name calling..." I don't know, can I has a cheeseburger?

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
happypantsmcgee:
The link you provided specifically lists ADD/ADHD as mental illnesses. My point was that the 1/5 number that is so often used to talk about the quantity of mentally ill people in this country and, by extension, the danger of having guns readily available is ridiculous. As for your comment, 'have you ever taken a science class in your life?' Yes I have. I also worked in an Acute Psych Ward in a state hospital for 3 years and even after that, I STILL think that universally less constrictive gun ownership is the best way to go.

Thank you for explaining what death is to me. After my Dad died and multiple years in the military, I really needed some partially literate 19 year old to explain it to me.

Finally "Can someone has a discussion without name calling..." I don't know, can I has a cheeseburger?

Wait...by "working" do you mean restrained in a padded room...cause some things would make a lot more sense if that was the case, lol.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 
cphbravo96:
happypantsmcgee:
The link you provided specifically lists ADD/ADHD as mental illnesses. My point was that the 1/5 number that is so often used to talk about the quantity of mentally ill people in this country and, by extension, the danger of having guns readily available is ridiculous. As for your comment, 'have you ever taken a science class in your life?' Yes I have. I also worked in an Acute Psych Ward in a state hospital for 3 years and even after that, I STILL think that universally less constrictive gun ownership is the best way to go.

Thank you for explaining what death is to me. After my Dad died and multiple years in the military, I really needed some partially literate 19 year old to explain it to me.

Finally "Can someone has a discussion without name calling..." I don't know, can I has a cheeseburger?

Wait...by "working" do you mean restrained in a padded room...cause some things would make a lot more sense if that was the case, lol.

Regards

That hurts man...

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

Thank god this is a mostly pro gun forum, but I thought I would share this site with everyone. Anyone who has ever read a gun magazine knows about the Armed Citizen section where they list instances of ordinary Americans saving their lives, the lives of others, or defending their property from criminals.

To use the search function you only need to select the state.

http://www.nraila.org/armedcitizen/

Just one example from the site Associated Press, 12/11/07 State: CO American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/2008 It's a story not even anti-gun media outlets could ignore. Matthew Murray allegedly wrote online, "All I want to do is kill and injure as many [Christians] … as I can." Police say he made good on his word, first by killing two young students at a missionary training center outside Denver. His next target was a gathering of 7,000 people in and around the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. With a rifle and a backpack full of ammunition, Murray entered the church and opened fire. Sadly, two sisters were killed. One man yelled to distract the gunman and was shot in the arm. That's when volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam, who has a concealed-carry permit and once worked in law enforcement, yelled, "Surrender!" Armed with a handgun, she walked toward Murray and shot him several times. "It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God," Assam recalls. His twisted plan foiled, the immobilized gunman killed himself.

and another...

WPVI, Philadelphia, Pa. 10/11/09 State: PA American Rifleman Issue: 10/13/2009 A criminal confronted a man in Philadelphia, Pa., hoping to make the man his third robbery victim of the night. The man, a Right-to-Carry permit holder, refused to go along with the robber’s plan; instead he drew his gun and fired at the criminal, striking and killing him. After a preliminary investigation, police do not have plans to charge the permit holder.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
 
Gekko21:
Thank god this is a mostly pro gun forum, but I thought I would share this site with everyone. Anyone who has ever read a gun magazine knows about the Armed Citizen section where they list instances of ordinary Americans saving their lives, the lives of others, or defending their property from criminals.

To use the search function you only need to select the state.

http://www.nraila.org/armedcitizen/

Just one example from the site Associated Press, 12/11/07 State: CO American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/2008 It's a story not even anti-gun media outlets could ignore. Matthew Murray allegedly wrote online, "All I want to do is kill and injure as many [Christians] … as I can." Police say he made good on his word, first by killing two young students at a missionary training center outside Denver. His next target was a gathering of 7,000 people in and around the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. With a rifle and a backpack full of ammunition, Murray entered the church and opened fire. Sadly, two sisters were killed. One man yelled to distract the gunman and was shot in the arm. That's when volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam, who has a concealed-carry permit and once worked in law enforcement, yelled, "Surrender!" Armed with a handgun, she walked toward Murray and shot him several times. "It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God," Assam recalls. His twisted plan foiled, the immobilized gunman killed himself.

You know what a happier ending to the first story would be?

"With a baseball bat and backpack full of Swiss Army knives, Murray entered and church and started swinging, Sadly, two people experienced broken bones, but the damage was limited as crazy people like Murray could not get guns. One man yelled to distract the lunatic and was swung at. That's when volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam, who is a responsible citizen, went through proper screening and training, has a concealed-carry permit and once worked in law enforcement, yelled, "Surrender!" Armed with a handgun, she walked toward Murray and shot him several times. "It seemed like it was me, the lunatic and God," Assam recalls.

I think the point to be made isn't that no one should have guns, rather we should be allowing the responsible folk to get guns and not to the crazy ones. No reason to give crazies an even playing field.

 
freeloader:
Gekko21:
Thank god this is a mostly pro gun forum, but I thought I would share this site with everyone. Anyone who has ever read a gun magazine knows about the Armed Citizen section where they list instances of ordinary Americans saving their lives, the lives of others, or defending their property from criminals.

To use the search function you only need to select the state.

http://www.nraila.org/armedcitizen/

Just one example from the site Associated Press, 12/11/07 State: CO American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/2008 It's a story not even anti-gun media outlets could ignore. Matthew Murray allegedly wrote online, "All I want to do is kill and injure as many [Christians] … as I can." Police say he made good on his word, first by killing two young students at a missionary training center outside Denver. His next target was a gathering of 7,000 people in and around the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. With a rifle and a backpack full of ammunition, Murray entered the church and opened fire. Sadly, two sisters were killed. One man yelled to distract the gunman and was shot in the arm. That's when volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam, who has a concealed-carry permit and once worked in law enforcement, yelled, "Surrender!" Armed with a handgun, she walked toward Murray and shot him several times. "It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God," Assam recalls. His twisted plan foiled, the immobilized gunman killed himself.

You know what a happier ending to the first story would be?

"With a baseball bat and backpack full of Swiss Army knives, Murray entered and church and started swinging, Sadly, two people experienced broken bones, but the damage was limited as crazy people like Murray could not get guns. One man yelled to distract the lunatic and was swung at. That's when volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam, who is a responsible citizen, went through proper screening and training, has a concealed-carry permit and once worked in law enforcement, yelled, "Surrender!" Armed with a handgun, she walked toward Murray and shot him several times. "It seemed like it was me, the lunatic and God," Assam recalls.

I think the point to be made isn't that no one should have guns, rather we should be allowing the responsible folk to get guns and not to the crazy ones. No reason to give crazies an even playing field.

So the government gets access to all of our medical files in order for them to determine our mental health?

Please explain what criteria you use to determine someone's mental status and how do you enforce a rule that is predicated on a criteria that can change over time?

"There are no good guns. There are no bad guns. Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a decent person is no threat to anybody - except bad people." -- Charlton Heston

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Can someone explain to a european this whole american gun love thing?

I just dont get this need to have a gun in your home, I can't even think of a situation in which I would have ever wished damn a gun now would be nice?

 
leveredarb:
Can someone explain to a european this whole american gun love thing?

I just dont get this need to have a gun in your home, I can't even think of a situation in which I would have ever wished damn a gun now would be nice?

I grew up hunting, fishing, and an avid outdoorsman. I target shoot all my guns as well as hunt with them. To me, I'd rather have a gun bedside and not need it than not have one and need it. All it takes is that one time when someone breaks into my house to thank my lucky stars I have one next to me. Also, I'm a Constitutionalist and I believe in the right to bear arms as written in our Constitution.

 
leveredarb:
Can someone explain to a european this whole american gun love thing?

I just dont get this need to have a gun in your home, I can't even think of a situation in which I would have ever wished damn a gun now would be nice?

An armed populace is the only method of protection citizens have from autocracy. Since the United States were founded on ideas of individual liberty and personal property, you should be able to extrapolate why this precipitates a need for guns.

Meanwhile Europeans, by and large are loyal and willing subjects of their kings, queens, fuhrers, comrades, chairmen, prime ministers, etc...so this idea is indeed very difficult for most on the Old Continent to comprehend.

The original American statesmen were all of European lineage and wanted a country which was the opposite of Europe in terms of government power. They wanted a nation in which the government could not push citizenry around, this is why they gave Americans the right to bare arms.

These humble and individualistic values are seen as a threat by totalitarian minded elitists worldwide.

The issue of gun control is largely one of intellectual superior elites trying to erode the only mechanism that the common man has of protecting himself from their bureaucratic machinery.

There's a lot more to it than this, obviously...but it's more than enough to get you started.

 
Midas Mulligan Magoo:

An armed populace is the only method of protection citizens have from autocracy. Since the United States were founded on ideas of individual liberty and personal property, you should be able to extrapolate why this precipitates a need for guns.

Meanwhile Europeans, by and large are loyal and willing subjects of their kings, queens, fuhrers, comrades, chairmen, prime ministers, etc...so this idea is indeed very difficult for most on the Old Continent to comprehend.

The original American statesmen were all of European lineage and wanted a country which was the opposite of Europe in terms of government power. They wanted a nation in which the government could not push citizenry around, this is why they gave Americans the right to bare arms.

These humble and individualistic values are seen as a threat by totalitarian minded elitists worldwide.

The issue of gun control is largely one of intellectual superior elites trying to erode the only mechanism that the common man has of protecting himself from their bureaucratic machinery.

There's a lot more to it than this, obviously...but it's more than enough to get you started.

Do you honestly believe that the American Marine Corp would be challenged by a bunch of fat, undisciplined American denizens? The point about America's right to bare arms preventing the "elitists" in government from enforcing their will on us is dolt.

And Europeans are far more likely to show disloyalty to their political establishment than Americans. Europeans march and demonstrate whenever there are attempts to raises taxes, cut services, go to war, etc. Americans are the ones who are sedately voting the party line and never demonstrate against any type of government imposition.

The issue of gun control is mainly between those who never fired guns and those who never fired guns.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 
leveredarb:
Can someone explain to a european this whole american gun love thing?

I just dont get this need to have a gun in your home, I can't even think of a situation in which I would have ever wished damn a gun now would be nice?

That is such a silly comment it doesn't even deserve a response. Are you being serious? If someone was beating your wife/gf/mother with a baseball bat you are just going to hang out and watch?

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

You also need to remember that hunting is a pretty big part of this country. We also have ranchers, farmers, target shooters, people who live in the middle of nowhere, etc. All of Europe is not anti gun also. Switzerland has a pretty strong gun culture.

 
ANT:
You also need to remember that hunting is a pretty big part of this country. We also have ranchers, farmers, target shooters, people who live in the middle of nowhere, etc. All of Europe is not anti gun also. Switzerland has a pretty strong gun culture.
Yeah but hunting rifles are used and allowed in Europe. And there are massive differences between guns intended to kill people and guns intended to kill animals.

I am very familiar with Switzerland and its gun culture, anyone serving in the army will have an assault rifle in their home. However after one of those assault rifles was used in a domestic shooting, a few months later it was outlawed to keep ammunitions for those guns in your house(the bill was passed through public majority vote). Then again Switzerland is so safe that people wouldn't really see the need to own armed assault rifles? Interestingly enough Switzerland is probably one of the best pro-gun arguments since there are a lot of guns around and no noteworthy gun-crime.

The European autocratic ruler argument is an interesting one, the US was founded by those same Europeans tough, although probably by all the ones fed up with authorities. Arguing that gun control is used by the Govt. to control its people from revolting is a bit ridiculous tough Europe isn't exactly riddled with dictatorships and our security regulations in terms of counter terrorism take away less freedom from its people than the American ones do.

cphbravo96:
leveredarb:
Can someone explain to a european this whole american gun love thing?

I just dont get this need to have a gun in your home, I can't even think of a situation in which I would have ever wished damn a gun now would be nice?

That is such a silly comment it doesn't even deserve a response. Are you being serious? If someone was beating your wife/gf/mother with a baseball bat you are just going to hang out and watch?

Regards

This is such an american white trash respone. The amount of times your gf/wife/mother gets attacked by a baseball bat is very limited(unless you life in a trailer park or a ghetto which I dont rly plan on), and you dont need to shoot people to defend yourself(unless they have guns as well... which in europe no one does).
 
leveredarb:
cphbravo96:
leveredarb:
Can someone explain to a european this whole american gun love thing?

I just dont get this need to have a gun in your home, I can't even think of a situation in which I would have ever wished damn a gun now would be nice?

That is such a silly comment it doesn't even deserve a response. Are you being serious? If someone was beating your wife/gf/mother with a baseball bat you are just going to hang out and watch?

Regards

This is such an american white trash respone. The amount of times your gf/wife/mother gets attacked by a baseball bat is very limited(unless you life in a trailer park or a ghetto which I dont rly plan on), and you dont need to shoot people to defend yourself(unless they have guns as well... which in europe no one does).

This is such a whiny, pacifistic European comment. No wonder we had to come to your continent's rescue...twice. Something like this only has to happen once for it to matter.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
leveredarb:
ANT:
You also need to remember that hunting is a pretty big part of this country. We also have ranchers, farmers, target shooters, people who live in the middle of nowhere, etc. All of Europe is not anti gun also. Switzerland has a pretty strong gun culture.
Yeah but hunting rifles are used and allowed in Europe. And there are massive differences between guns intended to kill people and guns intended to kill animals.

I am very familiar with Switzerland and its gun culture, anyone serving in the army will have an assault rifle in their home. However after one of those assault rifles was used in a domestic shooting, a few months later it was outlawed to keep ammunitions for those guns in your house(the bill was passed through public majority vote). Then again Switzerland is so safe that people wouldn't really see the need to own armed assault rifles? Interestingly enough Switzerland is probably one of the best pro-gun arguments since there are a lot of guns around and no noteworthy gun-crime.

The European autocratic ruler argument is an interesting one, the US was founded by those same Europeans tough, although probably by all the ones fed up with authorities. Arguing that gun control is used by the Govt. to control its people from revolting is a bit ridiculous tough Europe isn't exactly riddled with dictatorships and our security regulations in terms of counter terrorism take away less freedom from its people than the American ones do.

cphbravo96:
leveredarb:
Can someone explain to a european this whole american gun love thing?

I just dont get this need to have a gun in your home, I can't even think of a situation in which I would have ever wished damn a gun now would be nice?

That is such a silly comment it doesn't even deserve a response. Are you being serious? If someone was beating your wife/gf/mother with a baseball bat you are just going to hang out and watch?

Regards

This is such an american white trash respone. The amount of times your gf/wife/mother gets attacked by a baseball bat is very limited(unless you life in a trailer park or a ghetto which I dont rly plan on), and you dont need to shoot people to defend yourself(unless they have guns as well... which in europe no one does).

So you're saying pistols are made to kill people? Wow, ingnorance is rampant among some Europeans. Also, I use one of my assault rifles for hunting. What does that make it then?

 
leveredarb:
ANT:
You also need to remember that hunting is a pretty big part of this country. We also have ranchers, farmers, target shooters, people who live in the middle of nowhere, etc. All of Europe is not anti gun also. Switzerland has a pretty strong gun culture.
Yeah but hunting rifles are used and allowed in Europe. And there are massive differences between guns intended to kill people and guns intended to kill animals.

I am very familiar with Switzerland and its gun culture, anyone serving in the army will have an assault rifle in their home. However after one of those assault rifles was used in a domestic shooting, a few months later it was outlawed to keep ammunitions for those guns in your house(the bill was passed through public majority vote). Then again Switzerland is so safe that people wouldn't really see the need to own armed assault rifles? Interestingly enough Switzerland is probably one of the best pro-gun arguments since there are a lot of guns around and no noteworthy gun-crime.

The European autocratic ruler argument is an interesting one, the US was founded by those same Europeans tough, although probably by all the ones fed up with authorities. Arguing that gun control is used by the Govt. to control its people from revolting is a bit ridiculous tough Europe isn't exactly riddled with dictatorships and our security regulations in terms of counter terrorism take away less freedom from its people than the American ones do.

cphbravo96:
leveredarb:
Can someone explain to a european this whole american gun love thing?

I just dont get this need to have a gun in your home, I can't even think of a situation in which I would have ever wished damn a gun now would be nice?

That is such a silly comment it doesn't even deserve a response. Are you being serious? If someone was beating your wife/gf/mother with a baseball bat you are just going to hang out and watch?

Regards

This is such an american white trash respone. The amount of times your gf/wife/mother gets attacked by a baseball bat is very limited(unless you life in a trailer park or a ghetto which I dont rly plan on), and you dont need to shoot people to defend yourself(unless they have guns as well... which in europe no one does).

Ohhh, okay. I didn't realize this was only the first time she was being hit with a baseball bat and raped. I will do something about it the next time, or the time after that, when I know for sure it's something I don't find acceptable.

People use this argument all the time to justify the need to not carry weapons...they say, "I have never felt unsafe walking from x to y, so I don't need a gun"...okay, glad you feel safe. I wonder how many business owners felt safe in their low key convenience store until someone came in wielding a weapon telling them to empty the cash register...or the number of rape and robbery victims felt safe in their own home until someone kicked in their front door?

Gun control advocates act as though crime stays in this well defined, predetermined perimeter and that if I just wouldn't venture into this bad area, I could never become a victim. Hate to break it too you, but crime is ever evolving and criminals have legs. How much fun is it to rob your neighbor if you are some poor, unemployed person in the ghetto...what are you looking to get, some food stamps? No, you probably want cash and jewelry and electronics...all things found in the homes in middle class (and up) neighborhoods. Criminals are typically weak and spineless, this is why they will always go to where they can find victims...preferably unarmed. When is the last time a criminal broke into a police station and demanded everybody's wallets?

As far as your comment about not needing guns to defend yourself...how do you intend to stop the two men, who are wielding baseball bats, from raping your wife and robbing your house...I mean flat?

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

I am sure the anti gun crowd gets strength and guidance from the benevolent and wise rulers of the past who have sought to protect their people from the scourge of gun violence by taking guns away from law abiding citizens.

http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id14.html

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." --Adolf Hitler

Other great anti gun leaders include Stalin and Mussolini. Wonderful company to be in.

 

Honestly, without getting into a name calling match, the reason we have so many guns is because we want to. Throughout time, taking away private ownership of guns has always been the first step towards dictatorships or violation of basic rights. This might not be an issue today, but the constitutional right still remains. We have these guns because it is part of the fabric of this country.

The USA does not need to justify or rationalize this right either. Some people and some countries are fine with the government heavily limiting their rights. The USA is not one of these places. Europeans might look at us and wonder why we care, but we do.

Hunting rifles and "assault" rifles are on in the same. They use the same ammo, they just look different. We have a ban on fully automatic weapons. We have permits for handguns. It isn't like the USA is the wild wild west.

 

I don't think you get it. By comparing them or saying that 'they wouldn't be challenged' implies a that they would be facing them in a situation where there would be a need to make that comparison which any normal person would read as you implying them being deployed domestically. Of course a professional soldier would (at least in most cases) be less than challenged by your average target shooter but that one to one comparison isn't the situation that we're discussing. The situation would be more like all of those fat denizens rising up in response to having their firearms taken away. In a hypothetical case like that (one that is relevant to this conversation) you simply cannot say that the Marines wouldn't be challenged by these people because they would be, if not on their side, at least sympathetic to their cause. Refer to Eddy's comment.

I'm sure that was all over the place so sorry about that.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

By the way, it's exceptionally douchey to name drop 'The Kennedy School of Government'. I hope you were wearing an ascot when you said that.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
happypantsmcgee:
By the way, it's exceptionally douchey to name drop 'The Kennedy School of Government'. I hope you were wearing an ascot when you said that.

"Pay up, Mortimer. I've won the bet."

LOL. +1 SB.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Yea, that's why I asked...so, after reading your explanation how is the debate between "Those who never fire guns and those who never fire guns"? Wouldn't it be between those who never fire guns and those who have (or do) fire guns?

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
happypantsmcgee:
Yea, that's why I asked...so, after reading your explanation how is the debate between "Those who never fire guns and those who never fire guns"? Wouldn't it be between those who never fire guns and those who have (or do) fire guns?

It was a typo.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 

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If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

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I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P

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