Q&A with Flake, “Don’t waste your time and energy in a back office role.”

How do I even begin to introduce Flake? More than anything else, Flake is really here for our enjoyment. Sure, maybe Flake is not as helpful as the legendary CompBanker, but that does not mean he is undeserving a Q&A. Within our interview, there are some real, solid lessons about the realities of networking from the back office to score an elusive FO role. Give the man props, because the BO-to-FO move is the epitome of doing the non-target hustle.

Although Flake has previously done an equity research focused Q&A, I wanted to sit down with him to discuss his back-office transition and his feelings about his current ER role. In this Q&A, Flake discusses his background, how to internally network from the back office, and the qualities of a successfully ER associate.

Please, enjoy, and make sure to look out for more of my Q&A’s with our more experienced users.


MF: Let's talk about your background, education, etc. - where did you come from? How did you get your initial Back Office job? What makes you special?

Flake: I went to a non-target state school, and graduated in 2009. How non-target? Well, a few weeks ago I had a meeting with a CEO of one of the companies under my coverage and he asked what school I attended (he was a Wharton UG and MBA man himself). I had to look at the floor, kick around a bit, and mutter the name under my breath.

Where did I come from? Russia, over a decade ago.

I had two summer analyst interviews for my junior year, one was an operations position at the BB that I currently work at, and the other was Blackrock PAG. Looking back, I realize neither of those was great, but I was ecstatic to receive the offers. Given that I was clueless back then, I made my decision based on brand name (I didn’t even know what in the world Blackrock was, seriously).

I thought I was the shit. I thought, “This is it, this is that Finance job that everyone keeps talking about.” I was proud of myself for not even trying and getting those. At $55,000 a year and $10,000 bonus at signing I figured I was well on my way of hitting that $100,000 by 30 goal (seriously, again). If I knew myself back then, I would have slapped the sh*t out of that kid.

What makes me special? The helmet, I guess.

-

MF: How did you know you wanted to work in equity research, if anything?

Flake: I didn’t know I wanted ER until I received my full-time offer at the end of my BB ops summer gig. After doing mindless shit for 10 weeks straight, it finally hit me that there are different divisions within the bank. I realized that operations was not what I wanted and it was definitely not “it”. I still signed the offer given the circumstances.

It was Fall ’08, I believe, and firms were cancelling OCR interviews at the time. I picked up the pace a bit during my senior year and came up with a master plan: 1) work in my BO job at 25% capacity, 2) spend the other 75% learning everything there is to learn about ER and IBD (my passion for both was a result of taking a couple of corporate finance classes during senior year), 3)???, and finally, 4) transition to ER or IB. More on this later…

After reading maybe 4-5 different books on investment banking, becoming addicted to WSJ and Barron’s, and speaking briefly to an ER associate who I met randomly- I knew what I wanted to do.

-

MF: Are you an analyst or associate?

Flake: As you may know, an analyst is more senior than an associate in a sell-side ER hierarchy. This is an external structure that we use for clients, reports, etc. Internally, we still follow the whole Analyst>Associate>VP>Director>MD structure. So my corporate/internal title is a 1st year Associate. Previously, I was an analyst for 2 years (split evenly between ER and BO).

-

MF: You mentioned that you networked your way to an FO associate job (granted some of it was sheer luck)... how would you recommend going about internally networking? What did you learn from your experience of almost getting the boot from networking a little too hard?

Flake: With networking, just be normal. I didn’t want to come off as some try-hard desperate brown-noser, and at the same time I didn’t want to come off self-entitled and cocky. Just be modest, be curious (bi-curious if that’s your thing), ask good questions, let the person talk about himself or herself, and just be able to shoot the sh*t with the person if it comes to that.

Despite my short career and my inexperience, I am still contacted by random people who want to “network” with me. Sure, I meet them. We talk, or try to. Some of them try so hard you can smell their bullshit from a mile away. The others say shit like “so my main concern is that ER is all about writing and modeling, I just don’t want to be stuck looking at an excel sheet all day”. Yes, valid question, but you don’t have to sound like a dick when phrasing it.

You can find my detailed BO to FO story in that Q&A thread I started in December. What I learned: if you want something, you go and get it. All good things require sacrifices; otherwise they are called hand-outs (occupy my ass). If I could go back to the BO, I would do the exact same thing.

-

MF: Talk to us about how to use a company directory?

Flake: Using the directory should be easy. I don’t know how it works at other firms, but I can filter mine by division, title, team, etc, which made it relatively easy to find the people you wanted. The one thing I fucked up on was cold emailing a tech analyst in SF, asking him to grab lunch/coffee. I’m in New York. So just pay attention. When you’re excited to email someone you can make a dumb mistake like that.

Lastly, if ER is your thing, you should have access to your bank’s research reports. Form your questions around those notes when emailing an analyst or an associate. Don’t ask obvious sh*t either; get a little creative with it to show that you are knowledgeable and interested in that sector. Otherwise, I will just attach a copy of my report and tell you to “look on page 3.”

-

MF: What is more important, a superior technical knowledge or superior amicable personality?

Flake: I would never isolate one of those and say that’s the most important. It is a mix of both…also sex appeal helps. For example, I would attribute 90% of my ER transition to my handsomeness. But seriously, you do need both though.

Technical:

1) Helps instill confidence in your clients and establish your credibility as a reliable source of information
2) Having something like the CFA charter should help with your potential move to the buy side
3) Knowing your sh*t will also make your analyst more comfortable with giving you greater responsibility. Your analyst has to be confident in your analysis and at some point the analyst shouldn’t feel like he or she needs to hold your hand.

Amicable personality:

1) ER analysts are not anti-social and they are not geeks or nerds or whatever I’ve seen thrown around occasionally
2) you need be personable when interacting with big institutional accounts and c-level executives of the industry that you cover.

-

MF: What grinds your gears the most when it comes to daily interaction with people (be it supervisors or subordinates)?

Flake: I don’t like people who act self-entitled. I don’t like anyone who constantly argues and tries to convince you they are right, even though they have been wrong the previous 10 times in a row. I don’t like people who get offended easily or can’t handle constructive criticism. I like modesty. I like someone I can grab a drink with and talk about anything, including WORK. Yes, work. Just because you hate your job doesn’t mean I hate mine and should shy away from discussing it in a social setting.

I have one subordinate, if you will; he is a “research assistant”. The thing I hate about him is his lack of attention to detail and his inability to take ownership of what I tell him to do. I feel like he does shit just to finish it, he doesn’t care about the end result and everything he hands over to me is sloppy.

My boss on the other hand, is exactly the type of person I just described. I can talk to him about anything and everything. He is easy-going but he can be strict and he can be a dick if the timing is right and shit needs to get done. That’s what I usually look for in a man.

-

MF: You're one of the people that transitioned from Operations to the Front Office, what advice would you give someone who is trying to do the same thing?

Flake: I may be biased, but don’t waste your time and energy on excelling in your back office or middle office role if your goal is to move as soon as possible. If you are one of those people that thinks your current boss in BO/MO will “refer” you to that banking MD if you work your ass off, you are kind of wrong. That shit doesn’t happen.

Focus on networking and studying (be it for the CFA, GMAT, or just reading relevant books/news). Don’t spend too much time working there. If you are still in a back office role two years after you graduated it is time to pack your stuff and go to business school…that’s just my opinion of course.

What I do now is not related to my BO position at all.

-

MF: What is the most positive part of ER and what is the most negative?

Flake: I discussed most of this in my Q&A thread as well.

My favorite part is that it’s not all grunt work. Even when a client uses me for informational purposes and doesn’t really care about my Buy/Sell/Hold rating (no one does really), I still feel like my opinion is valued and sought after. Every time I hear “Thanks for your time and insight, Flake, very helpful” I get a kick out of that.

When was the last time someone who’s twice your age, who is making probably 15-20x of what you make a year, and who is managing billions of dollars, thanked you for your “insight” or your “time?”

What’s the most negative thing about my job? They could pay me more money.

-

MF: What are some basic qualities specifically needed to be successful at an ER job?

Flake: Confidence. Attention to detail. You must have a passion for your sector and the markets (otherwise you’re just bored). Have the ability to write well, and being selectively direct and concise (not my best quality).

-

MF: Will you be attending the WSO conference?

Flake: I have my ticket to the WSO conference. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, I might dedicate that Saturday to a catnap.

-

MF: Why do you feel like it is important to give back in the realm of solid advice to the WSO community?

Flake: I didn’t even know WSO existed before I started in ER… so I really don’t have anyone here to thank for anything. I never even thought of going on an Internet forum to seek advice on my career or networking, but I sure wish I did. It would have made my transition a lot easier, and more importantly; I would not have felt like I was the only one trying to take that leap. Also, I would like to give back occasionally in return for Patrick letting me troll WSO 90% of the time.

-

MF: I usually open up the end of the Q&A to say anything you may wish (just be nice).

Flake: I just want to give a few shout outs to the people who keep me entertained on WSO:

Nouveau Richie, shorttheworld, heister, Determined, Whiskey5, duffmt6, ekimlacks, WellPlayed, Midas Mulligan Magoo (RIP), swagon, TonyPerkis, malvvar, rothyman, and ah. If I forgot someone, I’m not sorry.


Check my past Q&A’s:

Heister (HF)- My Total Worth is North of $50 Million

Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 1
Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 2

CompBanker (PE) Part 1
CompBanker (PE) Part 2

 

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“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

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My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 

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"Rage, rage against the dying of the light." - DT
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Quia aut autem iure non nisi ut sint. Voluptas iusto facere aut alias omnis modi. Reprehenderit est aut atque culpa. Placeat vitae molestias rem cumque sint quae. Rerum iure doloremque architecto reiciendis delectus. Vitae voluptate dolore explicabo natus asperiores. Et autem est libero maxime temporibus ex.

Voluptas voluptates iusto nostrum sunt et. Fuga nisi et omnis id at quis. Dicta et nihil quisquam officia enim. Molestiae ullam vero eum at qui ratione ducimus.

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"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Blanditiis tempore similique voluptatem quos doloremque quas maiores. Error eius est suscipit praesentium accusamus aliquid. Consequuntur minus voluptatem natus esse aspernatur enim et. Atque quis nobis necessitatibus rerum officiis ea quasi. Et dolores facere sint inventore libero cupiditate eligendi.

Omnis sint dolore optio quia asperiores autem est. Harum itaque aut reprehenderit quo cumque ex cumque. Et dolor tenetur aperiam natus. Debitis quasi velit suscipit autem cum repellendus. Tenetur quibusdam aliquid quia ea velit dignissimos.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Ullam facilis exercitationem ea enim sit inventore assumenda. Sed et accusantium odit quibusdam autem placeat deleniti. Error reprehenderit inventore culpa et et quod amet. Eaque quia ad omnis asperiores esse voluptas aut. Delectus aperiam blanditiis error dolor.

Repellendus illum consequatur neque est et veniam. Culpa magnam earum quos occaecati libero non. Ut quidem laborum asperiores voluptates.

Ipsam molestias harum dolorem aut dolor recusandae. Ipsum magnam voluptatem itaque quis.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Illo est perferendis doloremque rerum quidem recusandae non. Ea temporibus voluptatem consectetur. Voluptatem libero ipsa qui est. Reprehenderit perferendis laudantium sint placeat.

Sit non consequatur vel corrupti distinctio magni. Ab repellat similique amet porro et voluptatem minima. Nisi ut neque quaerat ratione aut. Cum sed autem ullam autem cupiditate ut.

Autem laudantium rem neque voluptates fugiat magnam hic ut. Delectus voluptatem assumenda soluta dolores odit itaque. Quod reiciendis totam possimus non id doloribus.

 

Facere inventore est voluptatibus sint reiciendis odit qui. Sunt aut accusantium eaque a qui maxime quod. Est qui autem fugit dolorem possimus rerum neque. Nobis laboriosam dolor sit amet aut.

Dolores saepe dolorem cupiditate et. Nihil quae exercitationem esse nisi repudiandae adipisci vitae error.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Cumque consequatur sint odio aut ullam aliquid dolorum. Nulla quia alias blanditiis optio. Voluptatem libero minima id libero aut eos dolorum. Odit pariatur ut unde illo.

Dolores optio voluptatibus fuga quia minus quidem. In qui qui sint amet voluptas nihil praesentium. Aut quos quisquam dolorem odit. Voluptas inventore quis odit quae est doloremque quia. Aspernatur sunt facere dolorum mollitia quis cumque.

Optio dolorum nobis voluptatem. Explicabo quae autem cumque dolor ut voluptatum. Fugit voluptate fugiat nisi deleniti accusamus neque. Debitis repellendus animi dolorum enim esse sunt. Eveniet excepturi quia laboriosam laudantium doloribus quos ut. Impedit et aliquid est architecto nisi facilis.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Quidem officia voluptate architecto ipsam ipsa nulla. Dolor voluptatem rerum sit nostrum itaque sint ut. Soluta repudiandae soluta atque aut.

Saepe soluta debitis itaque modi quidem deleniti. Est est nihil odit magnam ipsa vel ratione. Corporis quae id architecto ullam et quo.

Quis velit rerum placeat omnis veniam maxime officia reiciendis. Aliquid provident vitae ad. Magni veritatis illum minima qui.

Itaque quam quia sit aspernatur perspiciatis sint est iusto. Eum consequatur aut in. Inventore accusamus error omnis excepturi et ut esse. Modi consequuntur ratione laudantium aut minus.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 

Quaerat ut et distinctio accusamus ad tenetur deserunt. Velit qui beatae deleniti tempore accusantium labore distinctio. Asperiores non sequi quia fugit. Pariatur labore voluptate voluptates vitae quis.

Vitae ut expedita aut iste. Ea et enim aut commodi ab architecto sint. Et fugiat esse dignissimos tempora rerum. Dolor alias libero aut autem. Rem doloremque omnis inventore. Quibusdam dolorem incidunt ut eveniet omnis omnis est est.

 

Eligendi eum magnam sit. Velit dolorum et similique quis laboriosam fugit.

Totam maxime voluptates repudiandae officia. Modi omnis ipsam nobis magnam ipsam explicabo quo fugiat. Mollitia aut labore ad ut nihil. Quia architecto consequatur voluptas molestiae. Consequatur autem pariatur in nostrum exercitationem voluptatem. Nihil perferendis repellendus et nemo libero. Voluptas aliquid doloribus accusamus quis consequatur voluptas nihil.

Perspiciatis amet corrupti consequatur. Ipsum praesentium commodi est voluptatem dolores ut libero pariatur. Repellendus eos facere et occaecati ab et. Tempora magni id aut officia consequatur officia aperiam. Est nihil ab sint illum molestias.

Est aut voluptatum rerum necessitatibus saepe mollitia qui. Mollitia unde modi inventore blanditiis ea nesciunt velit. Aspernatur non alias aliquam commodi reprehenderit nobis rem.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 
Best Response

Ea nihil tenetur blanditiis perspiciatis. Vel harum blanditiis aut ratione. Aliquid officia quas ut ullam debitis qui dolorem. Ullam natus eligendi qui eligendi qui dolorem rerum ea. Aut maxime sed nesciunt aut ex quia. Non laboriosam assumenda officia quis reprehenderit delectus.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Repellat est consectetur doloremque sapiente iste ut modi. Corrupti incidunt inventore qui ut ducimus rerum enim. Nostrum consectetur velit ea distinctio laudantium qui. Harum nobis numquam molestiae odio magni facilis. Natus possimus cum dolores. Nemo ut perferendis atque alias et ipsam id.

 

Quasi est porro amet tempora. Fuga rem aperiam minus rem. Quia doloremque numquam laborum sequi quibusdam totam vel enim. Tempore repudiandae incidunt nihil id delectus excepturi non.

Optio quidem numquam aut molestiae. Sunt hic voluptates rerum saepe. Id et repudiandae repudiandae pariatur et. Consequuntur sit ex ullam atque.

Consequatur nisi id optio nobis minus iusto aliquam. Deserunt voluptatem ut rerum est. Nulla numquam enim harum numquam delectus.

Ut dolorem similique sit veniam aliquam veniam. A recusandae sit expedita ducimus. Neque magni sit nam maxime. Hic quis optio aliquam sapiente aspernatur laboriosam in. Eum aliquid nulla nemo odio autem.

 

Perspiciatis enim nostrum blanditiis quo consectetur non. Nihil placeat eum omnis fugiat voluptatem eum. Quasi molestiae hic nam doloribus eius magnam beatae.

Voluptatem id optio optio odio consequatur id. Velit perspiciatis vel est odit.

Autem voluptatem rerum pariatur recusandae. Quasi qui magnam quia totam id odio et. Aliquid possimus nam totam placeat natus distinctio. Fuga itaque sunt sit quia esse qui.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Ullam porro excepturi ab natus at repellat consequuntur. Atque sed et quasi facilis sit numquam. Maxime aut aliquid reiciendis magnam maxime quis enim recusandae. Incidunt ut laborum at cumque eaque odit.

Odio voluptate quia aut et accusantium velit iure dolorem. Repellat tempore eaque quae. Laudantium officiis placeat et voluptatum aliquam tempore ut. Quae quia saepe et nihil. Distinctio sit occaecati in consectetur ipsam.

Possimus illum velit tempore eum consequuntur. Amet ab ut aperiam officiis sunt. Et vel in ratione dolorem commodi sequi inventore. Amet placeat cumque velit et consequatur ipsum. Nihil et odit odit pariatur neque nihil ut. Illo sit illum iste animi iste voluptates.

Sed nemo dolorem debitis molestias quaerat enim est. Reprehenderit eum tempora facilis. Impedit qui id molestias sed eum nemo.

 

Rerum sed esse aliquid voluptas quidem consequatur et. Ad voluptatibus porro saepe veniam labore. Unde et impedit molestias perferendis officiis. Labore eius quisquam accusantium velit asperiores.

Perspiciatis veritatis placeat ut delectus ratione nisi. Ea velit ipsa et molestiae.

Excepturi facere pariatur nemo consequatur ab perferendis reiciendis rem. Accusamus sequi aliquid voluptas. Et eveniet ut accusamus eius consequatur vel autem. Repellat occaecati omnis ex iusto quia quo quis. Dolor dolor veritatis et laborum distinctio.

Similique libero blanditiis aut inventore. Ullam veniam qui laudantium modi.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Et voluptatibus qui enim molestias blanditiis nemo. Dignissimos itaque vel et quo voluptas in aliquam. Omnis ratione ad voluptas voluptas quisquam laudantium voluptatem. Et beatae dolorum rerum ut. Consequatur distinctio voluptate est sit explicabo.

Saepe et dolorem voluptates. Maiores saepe eos et consectetur. Adipisci architecto mollitia asperiores sequi sit est. Inventore optio est in numquam consequatur.

Inventore quis qui sed maiores. Nobis repellendus at dolores expedita voluptas. Et eaque et tempore eum sit. Quae et officia veritatis quo soluta reiciendis autem. Aut voluptatum illo aliquid in saepe quidem sequi.

Beatae vitae est ad possimus sunt a. Occaecati deserunt debitis alias architecto. A dolorem molestiae quis molestias eveniet.

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