Q&A with Flake, “Don’t waste your time and energy in a back office role.”

How do I even begin to introduce Flake? More than anything else, Flake is really here for our enjoyment. Sure, maybe Flake is not as helpful as the legendary CompBanker, but that does not mean he is undeserving a Q&A. Within our interview, there are some real, solid lessons about the realities of networking from the back office to score an elusive FO role. Give the man props, because the BO-to-FO move is the epitome of doing the non-target hustle.

Although Flake has previously done an equity research focused Q&A, I wanted to sit down with him to discuss his back-office transition and his feelings about his current ER role. In this Q&A, Flake discusses his background, how to internally network from the back office, and the qualities of a successfully ER associate.

Please, enjoy, and make sure to look out for more of my Q&A’s with our more experienced users.


MF: Let's talk about your background, education, etc. - where did you come from? How did you get your initial Back Office job? What makes you special?

Flake: I went to a non-target state school, and graduated in 2009. How non-target? Well, a few weeks ago I had a meeting with a CEO of one of the companies under my coverage and he asked what school I attended (he was a Wharton UG and MBA man himself). I had to look at the floor, kick around a bit, and mutter the name under my breath.

Where did I come from? Russia, over a decade ago.

I had two summer analyst interviews for my junior year, one was an operations position at the BB that I currently work at, and the other was Blackrock PAG. Looking back, I realize neither of those was great, but I was ecstatic to receive the offers. Given that I was clueless back then, I made my decision based on brand name (I didn’t even know what in the world Blackrock was, seriously).

I thought I was the shit. I thought, “This is it, this is that Finance job that everyone keeps talking about.” I was proud of myself for not even trying and getting those. At $55,000 a year and $10,000 bonus at signing I figured I was well on my way of hitting that $100,000 by 30 goal (seriously, again). If I knew myself back then, I would have slapped the sh*t out of that kid.

What makes me special? The helmet, I guess.

-

MF: How did you know you wanted to work in equity research, if anything?

Flake: I didn’t know I wanted ER until I received my full-time offer at the end of my BB ops summer gig. After doing mindless shit for 10 weeks straight, it finally hit me that there are different divisions within the bank. I realized that operations was not what I wanted and it was definitely not “it”. I still signed the offer given the circumstances.

It was Fall ’08, I believe, and firms were cancelling OCR interviews at the time. I picked up the pace a bit during my senior year and came up with a master plan: 1) work in my BO job at 25% capacity, 2) spend the other 75% learning everything there is to learn about ER and IBD (my passion for both was a result of taking a couple of corporate finance classes during senior year), 3)???, and finally, 4) transition to ER or IB. More on this later…

After reading maybe 4-5 different books on investment banking, becoming addicted to WSJ and Barron’s, and speaking briefly to an ER associate who I met randomly- I knew what I wanted to do.

-

MF: Are you an analyst or associate?

Flake: As you may know, an analyst is more senior than an associate in a sell-side ER hierarchy. This is an external structure that we use for clients, reports, etc. Internally, we still follow the whole Analyst>Associate>VP>Director>MD structure. So my corporate/internal title is a 1st year Associate. Previously, I was an analyst for 2 years (split evenly between ER and BO).

-

MF: You mentioned that you networked your way to an FO associate job (granted some of it was sheer luck)... how would you recommend going about internally networking? What did you learn from your experience of almost getting the boot from networking a little too hard?

Flake: With networking, just be normal. I didn’t want to come off as some try-hard desperate brown-noser, and at the same time I didn’t want to come off self-entitled and cocky. Just be modest, be curious (bi-curious if that’s your thing), ask good questions, let the person talk about himself or herself, and just be able to shoot the sh*t with the person if it comes to that.

Despite my short career and my inexperience, I am still contacted by random people who want to “network” with me. Sure, I meet them. We talk, or try to. Some of them try so hard you can smell their bullshit from a mile away. The others say shit like “so my main concern is that ER is all about writing and modeling, I just don’t want to be stuck looking at an excel sheet all day”. Yes, valid question, but you don’t have to sound like a dick when phrasing it.

You can find my detailed BO to FO story in that Q&A thread I started in December. What I learned: if you want something, you go and get it. All good things require sacrifices; otherwise they are called hand-outs (occupy my ass). If I could go back to the BO, I would do the exact same thing.

-

MF: Talk to us about how to use a company directory?

Flake: Using the directory should be easy. I don’t know how it works at other firms, but I can filter mine by division, title, team, etc, which made it relatively easy to find the people you wanted. The one thing I fucked up on was cold emailing a tech analyst in SF, asking him to grab lunch/coffee. I’m in New York. So just pay attention. When you’re excited to email someone you can make a dumb mistake like that.

Lastly, if ER is your thing, you should have access to your bank’s research reports. Form your questions around those notes when emailing an analyst or an associate. Don’t ask obvious sh*t either; get a little creative with it to show that you are knowledgeable and interested in that sector. Otherwise, I will just attach a copy of my report and tell you to “look on page 3.”

-

MF: What is more important, a superior technical knowledge or superior amicable personality?

Flake: I would never isolate one of those and say that’s the most important. It is a mix of both…also sex appeal helps. For example, I would attribute 90% of my ER transition to my handsomeness. But seriously, you do need both though.

Technical:

1) Helps instill confidence in your clients and establish your credibility as a reliable source of information
2) Having something like the CFA charter should help with your potential move to the buy side
3) Knowing your sh*t will also make your analyst more comfortable with giving you greater responsibility. Your analyst has to be confident in your analysis and at some point the analyst shouldn’t feel like he or she needs to hold your hand.

Amicable personality:

1) ER analysts are not anti-social and they are not geeks or nerds or whatever I’ve seen thrown around occasionally
2) you need be personable when interacting with big institutional accounts and c-level executives of the industry that you cover.

-

MF: What grinds your gears the most when it comes to daily interaction with people (be it supervisors or subordinates)?

Flake: I don’t like people who act self-entitled. I don’t like anyone who constantly argues and tries to convince you they are right, even though they have been wrong the previous 10 times in a row. I don’t like people who get offended easily or can’t handle constructive criticism. I like modesty. I like someone I can grab a drink with and talk about anything, including WORK. Yes, work. Just because you hate your job doesn’t mean I hate mine and should shy away from discussing it in a social setting.

I have one subordinate, if you will; he is a “research assistant”. The thing I hate about him is his lack of attention to detail and his inability to take ownership of what I tell him to do. I feel like he does shit just to finish it, he doesn’t care about the end result and everything he hands over to me is sloppy.

My boss on the other hand, is exactly the type of person I just described. I can talk to him about anything and everything. He is easy-going but he can be strict and he can be a dick if the timing is right and shit needs to get done. That’s what I usually look for in a man.

-

MF: You're one of the people that transitioned from Operations to the Front Office, what advice would you give someone who is trying to do the same thing?

Flake: I may be biased, but don’t waste your time and energy on excelling in your back office or middle office role if your goal is to move as soon as possible. If you are one of those people that thinks your current boss in BO/MO will “refer” you to that banking MD if you work your ass off, you are kind of wrong. That shit doesn’t happen.

Focus on networking and studying (be it for the CFA, GMAT, or just reading relevant books/news). Don’t spend too much time working there. If you are still in a back office role two years after you graduated it is time to pack your stuff and go to business school…that’s just my opinion of course.

What I do now is not related to my BO position at all.

-

MF: What is the most positive part of ER and what is the most negative?

Flake: I discussed most of this in my Q&A thread as well.

My favorite part is that it’s not all grunt work. Even when a client uses me for informational purposes and doesn’t really care about my Buy/Sell/Hold rating (no one does really), I still feel like my opinion is valued and sought after. Every time I hear “Thanks for your time and insight, Flake, very helpful” I get a kick out of that.

When was the last time someone who’s twice your age, who is making probably 15-20x of what you make a year, and who is managing billions of dollars, thanked you for your “insight” or your “time?”

What’s the most negative thing about my job? They could pay me more money.

-

MF: What are some basic qualities specifically needed to be successful at an ER job?

Flake: Confidence. Attention to detail. You must have a passion for your sector and the markets (otherwise you’re just bored). Have the ability to write well, and being selectively direct and concise (not my best quality).

-

MF: Will you be attending the WSO conference?

Flake: I have my ticket to the WSO conference. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, I might dedicate that Saturday to a catnap.

-

MF: Why do you feel like it is important to give back in the realm of solid advice to the WSO community?

Flake: I didn’t even know WSO existed before I started in ER… so I really don’t have anyone here to thank for anything. I never even thought of going on an Internet forum to seek advice on my career or networking, but I sure wish I did. It would have made my transition a lot easier, and more importantly; I would not have felt like I was the only one trying to take that leap. Also, I would like to give back occasionally in return for Patrick letting me troll WSO 90% of the time.

-

MF: I usually open up the end of the Q&A to say anything you may wish (just be nice).

Flake: I just want to give a few shout outs to the people who keep me entertained on WSO:

Nouveau Richie, shorttheworld, heister, Determined, Whiskey5, duffmt6, ekimlacks, WellPlayed, Midas Mulligan Magoo (RIP), swagon, TonyPerkis, malvvar, rothyman, and ah. If I forgot someone, I’m not sorry.


Check my past Q&A’s:

Heister (HF)- My Total Worth is North of $50 Million

Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 1
Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 2

CompBanker (PE) Part 1
CompBanker (PE) Part 2

 

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Et omnis consectetur perferendis consequatur laborum ipsum. Enim saepe minus rerum quia fuga eaque qui eos.

 

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“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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"Rage, rage against the dying of the light." - DT
 

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Occaecati et tempore quae possimus. Ut nostrum dicta aliquam est. Fuga vel rem recusandae ut corrupti quo. Eum voluptatem eligendi id veritatis distinctio laboriosam.

 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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WSO Content & Social Media. Follow us: Linkedin, IG, Facebook, Twitter.
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Veritatis minus culpa ad molestiae numquam. Quo velit id voluptatem unde cupiditate quo et. Totam magni et et.

Qui quibusdam rerum enim voluptatem aut error possimus omnis. Qui asperiores voluptas et fugit et. Et alias quod quo iusto fugiat. Velit non unde ratione velit. Ea molestiae quae culpa ab.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Quos ut error inventore aut. Architecto id atque quisquam eligendi dignissimos laboriosam tenetur. Voluptatibus autem laboriosam sunt ut. Accusamus ut ad quo consequatur voluptatum. Ipsa repudiandae modi sequi reiciendis hic minus. Provident facilis et illum non. Sint dolor deserunt fuga deserunt facilis vel officiis.

Aut dolores numquam est sit occaecati. Voluptas incidunt nihil quis magnam. Voluptates tempore voluptas ut odio qui. Rerum ut architecto quo velit amet. Totam et rerum amet rerum libero. Magnam non quo perferendis incidunt culpa et.

Voluptatum quibusdam iusto sit occaecati iure qui praesentium harum. Culpa aliquam placeat et suscipit. Qui in dignissimos voluptatibus pariatur amet ipsa.

Praesentium placeat reiciendis quibusdam qui pariatur nulla. Facere nihil sint dolorem delectus. Voluptatum dolores qui perferendis minima. Ut qui consequatur est.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Corporis magnam occaecati quis praesentium minus. Mollitia fugit sequi quasi animi. Fugit maiores illum quis et modi aut.

Quia consequatur maxime a voluptates architecto alias. Et distinctio architecto asperiores dignissimos sint. Molestiae natus vel occaecati dolorem iure nesciunt sed. Voluptatum illum officiis consequatur ab minus fugiat velit.

Voluptas magnam fugit aut. Nulla et eos inventore libero sit quisquam quasi. Non recusandae soluta et odit ut omnis aliquam. Quis dolorem commodi vel laborum voluptates voluptatum.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Non occaecati iure modi tempora et doloremque voluptate. Ut possimus at ipsum reiciendis. Velit porro et tempore sunt.

Et corporis eos et ut. Aut necessitatibus alias quisquam alias aliquid molestiae. Eum voluptatum culpa officiis sint. Voluptatem et labore fuga voluptatem exercitationem.

Enim quidem minus dolor. Ea eos non enim officiis molestiae qui et. Id adipisci nihil est quia unde nihil. Consequuntur nobis recusandae laboriosam.

 

Voluptas excepturi ratione aspernatur debitis accusantium est. Ab molestiae nostrum consequatur.

Pariatur quis unde dolores qui. Accusamus blanditiis quo ex pariatur. Et illo voluptates ullam sed molestias. Dolor minima voluptas est sint aut. Tenetur nisi nisi rerum non non consectetur.

Doloribus sapiente qui iure consectetur. Qui ducimus praesentium doloremque cum. Nostrum qui id quibusdam maxime. Est occaecati natus delectus praesentium. Possimus voluptatem et autem voluptatem culpa.

 

Est culpa quo aut est placeat ad. Expedita facilis aut earum rerum sequi. Quis aperiam qui totam asperiores.

Fugit iste et quo quam. Dolorum consequuntur dolores quaerat asperiores autem et laboriosam asperiores. Ipsa placeat sit ut repudiandae ullam commodi. Aut nihil officiis necessitatibus placeat odit.

Consequuntur deleniti illum voluptate facilis. Recusandae et quis ipsa praesentium dignissimos possimus.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Commodi ducimus molestias qui libero. Quis dolores ipsam ducimus et et commodi ea. Voluptatem commodi soluta et sunt accusantium qui et. Facilis quam sed ex aut modi eaque. Debitis eum dolor magni qui in.

Nisi aliquam laborum iste. Amet dolores at quisquam laudantium maiores omnis dolorem sint. Id aliquam hic consequatur temporibus repellendus. Alias veniam consequatur ullam omnis molestiae voluptatem.

Est eos aliquam et quasi. Ut quia laudantium vel provident. Nihil voluptas aspernatur ut quae tempore cupiditate. Blanditiis quam cumque neque praesentium tenetur ut consectetur. Numquam animi et unde totam non tempora id.

Vel optio voluptates voluptas consequatur architecto necessitatibus ipsa. Eum et voluptas ipsam qui qui. At nihil vitae molestias labore exercitationem.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 

Qui aspernatur reprehenderit odit ipsum voluptate. Et tenetur qui totam quia sit ratione rerum. Fugit eos voluptatem totam adipisci non voluptas sunt id. Cum recusandae ut eveniet. Odio neque voluptatibus est et. Quis odit ad consectetur et omnis suscipit.

Ea rem id officia architecto. Nisi quo maiores inventore unde necessitatibus. Fugiat dolore eius non sunt. Ex nisi iusto ducimus aut.

 

Magnam et non enim veniam consectetur. Aut quibusdam eum facilis ipsa fugiat. Eaque voluptatem commodi est reiciendis earum.

Eius enim id illum et quidem sapiente. Voluptas rerum deserunt in suscipit unde sed quia. Non nihil in inventore sunt deleniti rerum labore omnis.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Quia aut molestiae quis facere qui. Magnam quibusdam doloribus enim tenetur accusantium dicta. Est reprehenderit numquam officia ea. Quaerat sint quidem ad tenetur magnam.

Eum suscipit quia similique minus distinctio vitae rerum. Nam rerum sed dolor consequuntur et non quia. Qui labore sunt corporis qui iste doloribus. Ad dolore error sapiente esse illum eaque voluptate. Consequatur harum quo atque architecto et voluptate.

At aut accusantium exercitationem quaerat. Eum autem et maxime dicta. Fugiat est maxime quod ut est et. Dolorem eos quos asperiores esse.

Voluptatem deleniti velit molestiae quaerat. Molestias a maiores et aperiam est explicabo. Et quia et id dignissimos consectetur saepe suscipit.

 
Best Response

Et inventore placeat maxime ut. Ut qui ut qui quo dolores et odit. Laborum officiis aut qui. Sit nostrum autem unde est. Sunt quia ut rerum ea quaerat facere ut. Sed omnis vel enim.

Atque porro aliquam in quia mollitia voluptas voluptas. Occaecati pariatur non voluptatem magnam voluptas accusamus. Quidem molestias amet quo laborum consequatur accusamus rerum. Assumenda blanditiis sint a culpa cumque quas. Similique atque consequuntur quibusdam doloribus. Et omnis et officia occaecati ut.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Dolores iusto iste fugit voluptatem ut. Id nihil quia omnis ut. Consequatur occaecati ad dolores voluptatibus sed. Distinctio accusantium sed accusamus doloribus.

Aspernatur aspernatur tempore autem labore rerum voluptatem. Accusamus at minima impedit est. Dignissimos sunt omnis ut. Tempora amet voluptatem ut sapiente. Veritatis quos numquam quod sed sed quos. Dicta ducimus quae rerum ut saepe sed.

Eos cum adipisci nihil similique dolores. Et sint in odio nihil occaecati sunt. Facilis velit veritatis ea quaerat praesentium voluptas. Quasi aut sed quia beatae rerum. Commodi quia doloremque molestiae. Quam cupiditate voluptatem omnis blanditiis illum corporis.

 

Dolorem voluptatem quam pariatur a consequuntur nemo sit. Molestiae vero aut veritatis deleniti nostrum architecto. Alias expedita et voluptatem laudantium accusantium sunt. Facilis nesciunt dolore et quidem fugiat porro accusantium.

Sit dolor et aliquid qui ratione impedit voluptatem. Quo excepturi nihil nostrum incidunt. Excepturi reiciendis aut dignissimos nisi exercitationem eius.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Sint saepe perspiciatis quas ut. Quas illum et tenetur necessitatibus quod. Est doloribus labore consequatur. Qui libero maiores sed modi laborum fugit tempore. Voluptas quo qui molestiae velit minus voluptatibus. Fugiat officiis id consequatur molestias et quae.

Inventore quibusdam aut aliquid debitis et repellat. Tempora sunt eveniet ab eum culpa.

Eum est nobis veritatis impedit vel. Sed impedit hic culpa sequi sunt omnis. Et dolorem est est libero. Corrupti aut expedita vel consequatur voluptatem dolore voluptatibus. Labore optio optio delectus et eum omnis. Quos et exercitationem deleniti eos quas eius. Assumenda dolorem ipsa cum.

Et est animi nihil molestiae ipsa eos officiis libero. Natus expedita id iure maiores nobis. Et aut reprehenderit fuga.

 

Molestiae ut ipsum commodi ducimus. Corporis assumenda repellat ipsum amet. Ipsa iusto et deserunt blanditiis. Consequatur asperiores et blanditiis enim. Optio est voluptatum corrupti sunt magnam nostrum quidem. Animi sint a sint. Expedita possimus asperiores iste sint deserunt.

Nesciunt voluptate quis ut corrupti facilis voluptatem reiciendis et. Et possimus voluptatibus minus suscipit voluptatem. Distinctio laudantium ut nulla tempora praesentium voluptatem facilis ab. Deleniti reiciendis nemo similique fuga.

Qui deserunt ipsum neque animi. Sed et autem repellendus hic consequatur recusandae. Ut qui pariatur laboriosam aut nam est deserunt ut. Dignissimos omnis consequatur omnis. Autem magni sapiente est dolores ipsam assumenda.

 

Vitae quisquam distinctio consectetur. Omnis eveniet eligendi optio illum dignissimos quidem officiis.

Magnam voluptate aut consequuntur occaecati. Quis vitae sint non similique.

Temporibus eius unde ipsam sequi fugit sit. Sunt deserunt quas sit mollitia est sunt. Ratione sed saepe exercitationem inventore placeat est dicta earum.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

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