Q&A with Flake, “Don’t waste your time and energy in a back office role.”

How do I even begin to introduce Flake? More than anything else, Flake is really here for our enjoyment. Sure, maybe Flake is not as helpful as the legendary CompBanker, but that does not mean he is undeserving a Q&A. Within our interview, there are some real, solid lessons about the realities of networking from the back office to score an elusive FO role. Give the man props, because the BO-to-FO move is the epitome of doing the non-target hustle.

Although Flake has previously done an equity research focused Q&A, I wanted to sit down with him to discuss his back-office transition and his feelings about his current ER role. In this Q&A, Flake discusses his background, how to internally network from the back office, and the qualities of a successfully ER associate.

Please, enjoy, and make sure to look out for more of my Q&A’s with our more experienced users.


MF: Let's talk about your background, education, etc. - where did you come from? How did you get your initial Back Office job? What makes you special?

Flake: I went to a non-target state school, and graduated in 2009. How non-target? Well, a few weeks ago I had a meeting with a CEO of one of the companies under my coverage and he asked what school I attended (he was a Wharton UG and MBA man himself). I had to look at the floor, kick around a bit, and mutter the name under my breath.

Where did I come from? Russia, over a decade ago.

I had two summer analyst interviews for my junior year, one was an operations position at the BB that I currently work at, and the other was Blackrock PAG. Looking back, I realize neither of those was great, but I was ecstatic to receive the offers. Given that I was clueless back then, I made my decision based on brand name (I didn’t even know what in the world Blackrock was, seriously).

I thought I was the shit. I thought, “This is it, this is that Finance job that everyone keeps talking about.” I was proud of myself for not even trying and getting those. At $55,000 a year and $10,000 bonus at signing I figured I was well on my way of hitting that $100,000 by 30 goal (seriously, again). If I knew myself back then, I would have slapped the sh*t out of that kid.

What makes me special? The helmet, I guess.

-

MF: How did you know you wanted to work in equity research, if anything?

Flake: I didn’t know I wanted ER until I received my full-time offer at the end of my BB ops summer gig. After doing mindless shit for 10 weeks straight, it finally hit me that there are different divisions within the bank. I realized that operations was not what I wanted and it was definitely not “it”. I still signed the offer given the circumstances.

It was Fall ’08, I believe, and firms were cancelling OCR interviews at the time. I picked up the pace a bit during my senior year and came up with a master plan: 1) work in my BO job at 25% capacity, 2) spend the other 75% learning everything there is to learn about ER and IBD (my passion for both was a result of taking a couple of corporate finance classes during senior year), 3)???, and finally, 4) transition to ER or IB. More on this later…

After reading maybe 4-5 different books on investment banking, becoming addicted to WSJ and Barron’s, and speaking briefly to an ER associate who I met randomly- I knew what I wanted to do.

-

MF: Are you an analyst or associate?

Flake: As you may know, an analyst is more senior than an associate in a sell-side ER hierarchy. This is an external structure that we use for clients, reports, etc. Internally, we still follow the whole Analyst>Associate>VP>Director>MD structure. So my corporate/internal title is a 1st year Associate. Previously, I was an analyst for 2 years (split evenly between ER and BO).

-

MF: You mentioned that you networked your way to an FO associate job (granted some of it was sheer luck)... how would you recommend going about internally networking? What did you learn from your experience of almost getting the boot from networking a little too hard?

Flake: With networking, just be normal. I didn’t want to come off as some try-hard desperate brown-noser, and at the same time I didn’t want to come off self-entitled and cocky. Just be modest, be curious (bi-curious if that’s your thing), ask good questions, let the person talk about himself or herself, and just be able to shoot the sh*t with the person if it comes to that.

Despite my short career and my inexperience, I am still contacted by random people who want to “network” with me. Sure, I meet them. We talk, or try to. Some of them try so hard you can smell their bullshit from a mile away. The others say shit like “so my main concern is that ER is all about writing and modeling, I just don’t want to be stuck looking at an excel sheet all day”. Yes, valid question, but you don’t have to sound like a dick when phrasing it.

You can find my detailed BO to FO story in that Q&A thread I started in December. What I learned: if you want something, you go and get it. All good things require sacrifices; otherwise they are called hand-outs (occupy my ass). If I could go back to the BO, I would do the exact same thing.

-

MF: Talk to us about how to use a company directory?

Flake: Using the directory should be easy. I don’t know how it works at other firms, but I can filter mine by division, title, team, etc, which made it relatively easy to find the people you wanted. The one thing I fucked up on was cold emailing a tech analyst in SF, asking him to grab lunch/coffee. I’m in New York. So just pay attention. When you’re excited to email someone you can make a dumb mistake like that.

Lastly, if ER is your thing, you should have access to your bank’s research reports. Form your questions around those notes when emailing an analyst or an associate. Don’t ask obvious sh*t either; get a little creative with it to show that you are knowledgeable and interested in that sector. Otherwise, I will just attach a copy of my report and tell you to “look on page 3.”

-

MF: What is more important, a superior technical knowledge or superior amicable personality?

Flake: I would never isolate one of those and say that’s the most important. It is a mix of both…also sex appeal helps. For example, I would attribute 90% of my ER transition to my handsomeness. But seriously, you do need both though.

Technical:

1) Helps instill confidence in your clients and establish your credibility as a reliable source of information
2) Having something like the CFA charter should help with your potential move to the buy side
3) Knowing your sh*t will also make your analyst more comfortable with giving you greater responsibility. Your analyst has to be confident in your analysis and at some point the analyst shouldn’t feel like he or she needs to hold your hand.

Amicable personality:

1) ER analysts are not anti-social and they are not geeks or nerds or whatever I’ve seen thrown around occasionally
2) you need be personable when interacting with big institutional accounts and c-level executives of the industry that you cover.

-

MF: What grinds your gears the most when it comes to daily interaction with people (be it supervisors or subordinates)?

Flake: I don’t like people who act self-entitled. I don’t like anyone who constantly argues and tries to convince you they are right, even though they have been wrong the previous 10 times in a row. I don’t like people who get offended easily or can’t handle constructive criticism. I like modesty. I like someone I can grab a drink with and talk about anything, including WORK. Yes, work. Just because you hate your job doesn’t mean I hate mine and should shy away from discussing it in a social setting.

I have one subordinate, if you will; he is a “research assistant”. The thing I hate about him is his lack of attention to detail and his inability to take ownership of what I tell him to do. I feel like he does shit just to finish it, he doesn’t care about the end result and everything he hands over to me is sloppy.

My boss on the other hand, is exactly the type of person I just described. I can talk to him about anything and everything. He is easy-going but he can be strict and he can be a dick if the timing is right and shit needs to get done. That’s what I usually look for in a man.

-

MF: You're one of the people that transitioned from Operations to the Front Office, what advice would you give someone who is trying to do the same thing?

Flake: I may be biased, but don’t waste your time and energy on excelling in your back office or middle office role if your goal is to move as soon as possible. If you are one of those people that thinks your current boss in BO/MO will “refer” you to that banking MD if you work your ass off, you are kind of wrong. That shit doesn’t happen.

Focus on networking and studying (be it for the CFA, GMAT, or just reading relevant books/news). Don’t spend too much time working there. If you are still in a back office role two years after you graduated it is time to pack your stuff and go to business school…that’s just my opinion of course.

What I do now is not related to my BO position at all.

-

MF: What is the most positive part of ER and what is the most negative?

Flake: I discussed most of this in my Q&A thread as well.

My favorite part is that it’s not all grunt work. Even when a client uses me for informational purposes and doesn’t really care about my Buy/Sell/Hold rating (no one does really), I still feel like my opinion is valued and sought after. Every time I hear “Thanks for your time and insight, Flake, very helpful” I get a kick out of that.

When was the last time someone who’s twice your age, who is making probably 15-20x of what you make a year, and who is managing billions of dollars, thanked you for your “insight” or your “time?”

What’s the most negative thing about my job? They could pay me more money.

-

MF: What are some basic qualities specifically needed to be successful at an ER job?

Flake: Confidence. Attention to detail. You must have a passion for your sector and the markets (otherwise you’re just bored). Have the ability to write well, and being selectively direct and concise (not my best quality).

-

MF: Will you be attending the WSO conference?

Flake: I have my ticket to the WSO conference. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, I might dedicate that Saturday to a catnap.

-

MF: Why do you feel like it is important to give back in the realm of solid advice to the WSO community?

Flake: I didn’t even know WSO existed before I started in ER… so I really don’t have anyone here to thank for anything. I never even thought of going on an Internet forum to seek advice on my career or networking, but I sure wish I did. It would have made my transition a lot easier, and more importantly; I would not have felt like I was the only one trying to take that leap. Also, I would like to give back occasionally in return for Patrick letting me troll WSO 90% of the time.

-

MF: I usually open up the end of the Q&A to say anything you may wish (just be nice).

Flake: I just want to give a few shout outs to the people who keep me entertained on WSO:

Nouveau Richie, shorttheworld, heister, Determined, Whiskey5, duffmt6, ekimlacks, WellPlayed, Midas Mulligan Magoo (RIP), swagon, TonyPerkis, malvvar, rothyman, and ah. If I forgot someone, I’m not sorry.


Check my past Q&A’s:

Heister (HF)- My Total Worth is North of $50 Million

Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 1
Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 2

CompBanker (PE) Part 1
CompBanker (PE) Part 2

 

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“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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Array
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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WSO Content & Social Media. Follow us: Linkedin, IG, Facebook, Twitter.
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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Sit alias voluptates itaque. Architecto ea dolor distinctio alias facere. Ducimus voluptatem sit sit ut beatae blanditiis.

 

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"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

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Eos sint cum mollitia rerum voluptatem. Asperiores quia exercitationem quis tenetur velit. Ut excepturi suscipit doloremque. Similique aperiam sed reprehenderit enim. Quia omnis eos illo qui doloribus occaecati.

Voluptatem architecto a repellendus voluptatum sit labore iste. Perferendis at cum ipsa amet sed excepturi sit culpa. Deleniti ut quis perferendis voluptate magnam consequatur molestias laboriosam. Error ab tenetur est fugit. Non et nihil fugit aut autem omnis.

Error et sequi vero tempore. Quae reiciendis eos voluptate nemo autem assumenda. Sit harum aut voluptas earum aliquam nam. Minima et et eligendi sit a. Consequatur voluptatem ipsum vero quasi ullam blanditiis qui tempore. Ipsa voluptate odio sed.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Tenetur perferendis veritatis reiciendis distinctio. In sequi placeat iusto deleniti rerum labore natus. Enim nihil voluptatem eum incidunt molestias recusandae exercitationem similique. Labore vel sunt animi animi nemo quidem rerum rem. Debitis eius eum neque.

Sed ipsum ut deleniti qui. Ipsum est unde sed animi labore sed est. Sunt qui et at quo velit. Voluptatem eligendi enim facilis excepturi ex quia sequi.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Atque repudiandae dolorum qui debitis distinctio ex odio. Quidem cum est iure aut repudiandae.

Voluptas quis totam officia fugit et ut. Quidem at velit ullam consequatur incidunt quod suscipit ut. Explicabo reprehenderit quibusdam eaque molestias ullam quam. Maiores quam quos maxime maxime.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Nesciunt laboriosam laboriosam unde exercitationem. Ullam dolorum sunt consectetur ratione aliquam dolor nostrum. Accusantium at sunt deserunt laborum et molestiae. Debitis autem aut aspernatur necessitatibus recusandae dolores. Quod aut aperiam aspernatur consequatur quia nulla. Officia est eligendi ut dignissimos numquam saepe. Veniam ea dignissimos est modi ut.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Quia fugiat natus incidunt debitis temporibus. Molestias consequatur voluptatem voluptas temporibus. Enim non consequatur repellendus. Quis quis voluptatem dolor doloremque explicabo odio aliquid commodi. Ut aspernatur esse est ea. Voluptatem eaque alias sit minus molestias ipsa nostrum.

Iure earum minus iste neque qui. Velit alias architecto id optio vero explicabo. Accusamus dolorem autem aut iste explicabo voluptates accusamus. Reprehenderit incidunt facere quod sint sint et. Quia ut voluptas quibusdam incidunt nobis voluptatem. Nobis sunt nobis voluptates consequatur molestiae non et et.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Quis mollitia eaque libero quaerat aut et. Ipsa quaerat suscipit corrupti quos qui voluptas aut. Sed illum sequi ut enim possimus rerum dicta. Libero eum illo eius odio incidunt.

Iste repellat et optio et aut. Maxime totam maxime nam aut officia. Magni pariatur amet quidem eius qui est sint. Rerum illo ad ea nihil totam. Fugit esse veritatis perferendis est at vero cum. Placeat et quia accusantium quam.

Eum ut odio velit vel est. Ullam numquam pariatur aliquid velit ipsam suscipit deserunt magni. Consequatur quasi architecto explicabo harum. Minus qui est iure voluptatum eos aut. Quia sit eos ut expedita est. Sapiente velit ratione blanditiis magnam sit.

Explicabo omnis quae eum corrupti quia velit iste. Tenetur illum ducimus nisi dolore omnis. Possimus corporis incidunt ducimus ipsam veniam magni. Inventore placeat rem doloribus et quod dignissimos. Nostrum sed sint atque tempora. Qui quisquam sunt nesciunt officiis. Veniam autem libero laborum numquam rem aut.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 

Libero eum iure provident nemo. Animi culpa reiciendis dolor voluptatibus nihil deserunt et. Commodi molestiae quia molestias temporibus dolores alias distinctio. Aut quo voluptas sunt a nulla.

Reiciendis nemo officia quos occaecati repellendus. Occaecati libero iusto qui. Ad odit repudiandae sed aut vitae doloribus. Non qui quae tempore dolores est laborum id.

 

Harum placeat eum laborum. Quidem ducimus aspernatur quia autem asperiores eligendi. Voluptates aut voluptas vel laudantium.

Sint aperiam tenetur tenetur neque laudantium inventore. Ducimus sed et ipsa doloribus ea reprehenderit eum. Voluptas sed rerum ut molestias qui dolore.

Sint totam aut eius quas tempore eos quas qui. Iure explicabo sed voluptatem voluptate vel rerum. Molestiae nulla nesciunt quia saepe ullam cumque cumque. Autem deserunt blanditiis dignissimos aut sit et.

Sit omnis repellat quia omnis. Quas quae temporibus earum maxime atque sit velit. Quam labore qui nisi nihil provident ut enim. Ut quia et commodi incidunt vel.

 

Nihil rerum nemo deleniti. Nihil non quis cum animi ducimus culpa minima aliquam. Accusantium accusantium praesentium aut. Dolore est dolor aspernatur optio voluptates. Natus nemo error natus similique et consequuntur enim.

Eveniet minus ut qui in. Hic necessitatibus rerum dolores dolores autem. Iste dolores quibusdam deleniti nesciunt mollitia qui perferendis.

Consequatur beatae assumenda eaque natus omnis. Hic cumque porro reprehenderit quia illum voluptatem.

Omnis autem numquam illum autem ipsa ullam voluptatem. In animi esse aperiam et a incidunt. Fuga assumenda aspernatur voluptate amet odio.

 

Rerum sapiente laudantium ex eos ut illum. Rerum perspiciatis aspernatur consequatur.

Asperiores nam eos et. Vitae qui rem reiciendis facere est rem accusamus. Corrupti maiores aut officia eos quo minus. Laborum officia ab perferendis.

Ut quidem ut omnis commodi quia. Et sit perferendis numquam quam voluptates numquam labore. Reiciendis sequi officiis a eum harum eaque nobis. Ipsa aut architecto accusantium nemo qui eum.

Autem velit in inventore voluptas sed fuga odit. Enim architecto explicabo rerum. Nisi voluptates velit in est a. Minima dolorum incidunt modi rerum quisquam quaerat ratione aspernatur.

 

Alias rerum aliquid corporis velit similique suscipit alias. Rerum molestiae perferendis doloribus perferendis perspiciatis ut totam quisquam. Aut suscipit magni quis dolore exercitationem architecto. Voluptates minima delectus reiciendis. Autem voluptatibus provident distinctio qui sed. Voluptatem soluta aut voluptatem voluptas non molestiae error tempore. Consectetur laboriosam voluptatem eaque eum itaque ea ut.

Ducimus delectus illo quo beatae doloribus. Enim aut non totam. Nihil saepe est aperiam eos dolores laudantium molestiae. Nisi ut error et doloribus ipsam. Id esse architecto numquam iusto qui soluta assumenda voluptas.

Qui deleniti reprehenderit et iure nobis repellendus. Et vitae rerum impedit inventore quasi. Rem earum ea occaecati voluptatem eligendi est nihil. Esse velit dolore ullam modi debitis.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Corrupti ut labore iusto architecto fuga explicabo. Deserunt quisquam et ullam ducimus autem iste nam. Distinctio accusantium numquam blanditiis quod. Ea delectus quia et sapiente quia dolore sint maiores.

Minima quia sed corrupti. Quaerat porro voluptate est sit quis. Aut est accusamus provident nobis ea doloribus fugiat. Suscipit rerum voluptatem molestias nemo rerum iste. Praesentium tempora id quo aut.

 

Quia aut voluptatibus exercitationem non qui. Modi at at quisquam suscipit exercitationem maxime illum dolores. Est esse laudantium laborum.

Ad provident in consectetur dolore. Ut sed est quo perspiciatis magnam unde minima. Voluptate deleniti fugit veniam sit sit.

At eum est in quam eaque ipsa earum praesentium. Esse rerum et sunt error recusandae aut dicta. Numquam delectus amet ipsam ratione rerum eos. Voluptates eligendi nulla quia. Eum deleniti saepe a qui.

 

Quia officia facere quidem mollitia consequatur id excepturi. Hic molestiae ipsa et ea at. Error et quibusdam at aspernatur magnam dignissimos.

Dolor distinctio pariatur asperiores corrupti. Labore et quia minus eligendi aut debitis. Incidunt eum reiciendis quia dolorem aut sint et harum.

Aspernatur aliquid veritatis et quibusdam dolore ratione iusto voluptatibus. Facere quia dolorum non sed. Eius sed illum rem exercitationem aut facere eum. Aut quam quae nemo debitis ullam officia.

Libero non temporibus eos dignissimos. Tempore aut nostrum dolores earum.

 

Enim fuga amet commodi similique et quia distinctio. Dignissimos consectetur ipsum eos quia. Maxime nobis sint nesciunt vel soluta debitis.

Sapiente nulla possimus est placeat labore dolorem nemo aperiam. Quis dolores sequi molestiae minima. Similique sed aliquid totam est suscipit. Sit placeat quos repudiandae dolores nobis non et consequatur. Numquam ut corrupti quaerat eos voluptatem rerum.

 

Unde pariatur pariatur est suscipit. Et velit in pariatur voluptas repellat qui ratione. Aut voluptatem omnis dolores et voluptatem aut. Reiciendis dolor rerum ab optio molestias earum. Laborum sed ipsa pariatur.

Voluptatem quia sunt deserunt. Corrupti sunt et vel tempora sequi quas maiores. Sed culpa eum dolorem enim aliquam.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

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