Q&A with Flake, “Don’t waste your time and energy in a back office role.”

How do I even begin to introduce Flake? More than anything else, Flake is really here for our enjoyment. Sure, maybe Flake is not as helpful as the legendary CompBanker, but that does not mean he is undeserving a Q&A. Within our interview, there are some real, solid lessons about the realities of networking from the back office to score an elusive FO role. Give the man props, because the BO-to-FO move is the epitome of doing the non-target hustle.

Although Flake has previously done an equity research focused Q&A, I wanted to sit down with him to discuss his back-office transition and his feelings about his current ER role. In this Q&A, Flake discusses his background, how to internally network from the back office, and the qualities of a successfully ER associate.

Please, enjoy, and make sure to look out for more of my Q&A’s with our more experienced users.


MF: Let's talk about your background, education, etc. - where did you come from? How did you get your initial Back Office job? What makes you special?

Flake: I went to a non-target state school, and graduated in 2009. How non-target? Well, a few weeks ago I had a meeting with a CEO of one of the companies under my coverage and he asked what school I attended (he was a Wharton UG and MBA man himself). I had to look at the floor, kick around a bit, and mutter the name under my breath.

Where did I come from? Russia, over a decade ago.

I had two summer analyst interviews for my junior year, one was an operations position at the BB that I currently work at, and the other was Blackrock PAG. Looking back, I realize neither of those was great, but I was ecstatic to receive the offers. Given that I was clueless back then, I made my decision based on brand name (I didn’t even know what in the world Blackrock was, seriously).

I thought I was the shit. I thought, “This is it, this is that Finance job that everyone keeps talking about.” I was proud of myself for not even trying and getting those. At $55,000 a year and $10,000 bonus at signing I figured I was well on my way of hitting that $100,000 by 30 goal (seriously, again). If I knew myself back then, I would have slapped the sh*t out of that kid.

What makes me special? The helmet, I guess.

-

MF: How did you know you wanted to work in equity research, if anything?

Flake: I didn’t know I wanted ER until I received my full-time offer at the end of my BB ops summer gig. After doing mindless shit for 10 weeks straight, it finally hit me that there are different divisions within the bank. I realized that operations was not what I wanted and it was definitely not “it”. I still signed the offer given the circumstances.

It was Fall ’08, I believe, and firms were cancelling OCR interviews at the time. I picked up the pace a bit during my senior year and came up with a master plan: 1) work in my BO job at 25% capacity, 2) spend the other 75% learning everything there is to learn about ER and IBD (my passion for both was a result of taking a couple of corporate finance classes during senior year), 3)???, and finally, 4) transition to ER or IB. More on this later…

After reading maybe 4-5 different books on investment banking, becoming addicted to WSJ and Barron’s, and speaking briefly to an ER associate who I met randomly- I knew what I wanted to do.

-

MF: Are you an analyst or associate?

Flake: As you may know, an analyst is more senior than an associate in a sell-side ER hierarchy. This is an external structure that we use for clients, reports, etc. Internally, we still follow the whole Analyst>Associate>VP>Director>MD structure. So my corporate/internal title is a 1st year Associate. Previously, I was an analyst for 2 years (split evenly between ER and BO).

-

MF: You mentioned that you networked your way to an FO associate job (granted some of it was sheer luck)... how would you recommend going about internally networking? What did you learn from your experience of almost getting the boot from networking a little too hard?

Flake: With networking, just be normal. I didn’t want to come off as some try-hard desperate brown-noser, and at the same time I didn’t want to come off self-entitled and cocky. Just be modest, be curious (bi-curious if that’s your thing), ask good questions, let the person talk about himself or herself, and just be able to shoot the sh*t with the person if it comes to that.

Despite my short career and my inexperience, I am still contacted by random people who want to “network” with me. Sure, I meet them. We talk, or try to. Some of them try so hard you can smell their bullshit from a mile away. The others say shit like “so my main concern is that ER is all about writing and modeling, I just don’t want to be stuck looking at an excel sheet all day”. Yes, valid question, but you don’t have to sound like a dick when phrasing it.

You can find my detailed BO to FO story in that Q&A thread I started in December. What I learned: if you want something, you go and get it. All good things require sacrifices; otherwise they are called hand-outs (occupy my ass). If I could go back to the BO, I would do the exact same thing.

-

MF: Talk to us about how to use a company directory?

Flake: Using the directory should be easy. I don’t know how it works at other firms, but I can filter mine by division, title, team, etc, which made it relatively easy to find the people you wanted. The one thing I fucked up on was cold emailing a tech analyst in SF, asking him to grab lunch/coffee. I’m in New York. So just pay attention. When you’re excited to email someone you can make a dumb mistake like that.

Lastly, if ER is your thing, you should have access to your bank’s research reports. Form your questions around those notes when emailing an analyst or an associate. Don’t ask obvious sh*t either; get a little creative with it to show that you are knowledgeable and interested in that sector. Otherwise, I will just attach a copy of my report and tell you to “look on page 3.”

-

MF: What is more important, a superior technical knowledge or superior amicable personality?

Flake: I would never isolate one of those and say that’s the most important. It is a mix of both…also sex appeal helps. For example, I would attribute 90% of my ER transition to my handsomeness. But seriously, you do need both though.

Technical:

1) Helps instill confidence in your clients and establish your credibility as a reliable source of information
2) Having something like the CFA charter should help with your potential move to the buy side
3) Knowing your sh*t will also make your analyst more comfortable with giving you greater responsibility. Your analyst has to be confident in your analysis and at some point the analyst shouldn’t feel like he or she needs to hold your hand.

Amicable personality:

1) ER analysts are not anti-social and they are not geeks or nerds or whatever I’ve seen thrown around occasionally
2) you need be personable when interacting with big institutional accounts and c-level executives of the industry that you cover.

-

MF: What grinds your gears the most when it comes to daily interaction with people (be it supervisors or subordinates)?

Flake: I don’t like people who act self-entitled. I don’t like anyone who constantly argues and tries to convince you they are right, even though they have been wrong the previous 10 times in a row. I don’t like people who get offended easily or can’t handle constructive criticism. I like modesty. I like someone I can grab a drink with and talk about anything, including WORK. Yes, work. Just because you hate your job doesn’t mean I hate mine and should shy away from discussing it in a social setting.

I have one subordinate, if you will; he is a “research assistant”. The thing I hate about him is his lack of attention to detail and his inability to take ownership of what I tell him to do. I feel like he does shit just to finish it, he doesn’t care about the end result and everything he hands over to me is sloppy.

My boss on the other hand, is exactly the type of person I just described. I can talk to him about anything and everything. He is easy-going but he can be strict and he can be a dick if the timing is right and shit needs to get done. That’s what I usually look for in a man.

-

MF: You're one of the people that transitioned from Operations to the Front Office, what advice would you give someone who is trying to do the same thing?

Flake: I may be biased, but don’t waste your time and energy on excelling in your back office or middle office role if your goal is to move as soon as possible. If you are one of those people that thinks your current boss in BO/MO will “refer” you to that banking MD if you work your ass off, you are kind of wrong. That shit doesn’t happen.

Focus on networking and studying (be it for the CFA, GMAT, or just reading relevant books/news). Don’t spend too much time working there. If you are still in a back office role two years after you graduated it is time to pack your stuff and go to business school…that’s just my opinion of course.

What I do now is not related to my BO position at all.

-

MF: What is the most positive part of ER and what is the most negative?

Flake: I discussed most of this in my Q&A thread as well.

My favorite part is that it’s not all grunt work. Even when a client uses me for informational purposes and doesn’t really care about my Buy/Sell/Hold rating (no one does really), I still feel like my opinion is valued and sought after. Every time I hear “Thanks for your time and insight, Flake, very helpful” I get a kick out of that.

When was the last time someone who’s twice your age, who is making probably 15-20x of what you make a year, and who is managing billions of dollars, thanked you for your “insight” or your “time?”

What’s the most negative thing about my job? They could pay me more money.

-

MF: What are some basic qualities specifically needed to be successful at an ER job?

Flake: Confidence. Attention to detail. You must have a passion for your sector and the markets (otherwise you’re just bored). Have the ability to write well, and being selectively direct and concise (not my best quality).

-

MF: Will you be attending the WSO conference?

Flake: I have my ticket to the WSO conference. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, I might dedicate that Saturday to a catnap.

-

MF: Why do you feel like it is important to give back in the realm of solid advice to the WSO community?

Flake: I didn’t even know WSO existed before I started in ER… so I really don’t have anyone here to thank for anything. I never even thought of going on an Internet forum to seek advice on my career or networking, but I sure wish I did. It would have made my transition a lot easier, and more importantly; I would not have felt like I was the only one trying to take that leap. Also, I would like to give back occasionally in return for Patrick letting me troll WSO 90% of the time.

-

MF: I usually open up the end of the Q&A to say anything you may wish (just be nice).

Flake: I just want to give a few shout outs to the people who keep me entertained on WSO:

Nouveau Richie, shorttheworld, heister, Determined, Whiskey5, duffmt6, ekimlacks, WellPlayed, Midas Mulligan Magoo (RIP), swagon, TonyPerkis, malvvar, rothyman, and ah. If I forgot someone, I’m not sorry.


Check my past Q&A’s:

Heister (HF)- My Total Worth is North of $50 Million

Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 1
Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 2

CompBanker (PE) Part 1
CompBanker (PE) Part 2

 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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Array
 

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WSO Content & Social Media. Follow us: Linkedin, IG, Facebook, Twitter.
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Architecto rerum fuga vero quasi quo nihil. Voluptas debitis et officiis laudantium ut eos. Commodi veniam incidunt laudantium nemo.

Et modi fugiat ab est molestias non et. Molestiae porro magni aut laborum non molestiae voluptates et. Rerum et quaerat molestias omnis ratione iste nostrum. Aut error recusandae aut.

Et suscipit qui nostrum aut. Aut accusamus fugiat explicabo voluptate aut sit. Voluptate iusto autem tempora aut officia sit.

Itaque ut aspernatur eius officia deserunt tempore. Earum natus placeat quos. Omnis amet eos hic aut molestias soluta reprehenderit nesciunt. Nulla qui quisquam iste. Pariatur voluptas dolor necessitatibus voluptatem quas praesentium neque.

 

Facere sapiente nihil perspiciatis dolor perspiciatis commodi pariatur. Ratione cum molestiae qui odit aut sit.

Ut possimus provident dolorem dolorem. Placeat at pariatur id expedita sunt quasi sed. Facere beatae ut eos officia optio dolorum provident. Eligendi vero beatae earum sed totam et quis consequatur. Et ut asperiores qui aut sed perspiciatis exercitationem. Omnis doloremque recusandae natus distinctio.

 

Sit hic laudantium molestias est. Dicta quas aut deserunt cum. Itaque quas sapiente ea dolore perspiciatis ea. Totam amet quos est distinctio.

Voluptatem voluptate laboriosam similique non ea deserunt dolores pariatur. Nobis nulla quia libero qui tempore aut neque. Mollitia id consequatur distinctio eius officia non atque. Vel optio impedit quo nam hic.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Ut aut ipsam ipsa vero explicabo voluptatem. Velit excepturi et sit corporis voluptas. Quibusdam reprehenderit provident rerum magni. Rerum deleniti beatae quis eaque in. Sapiente voluptatem ratione eum earum.

Expedita fuga dignissimos qui. Sunt accusantium praesentium omnis tempora blanditiis dignissimos beatae et. Sapiente nam at ad quasi repellendus. Deleniti nulla sunt quo debitis qui mollitia.

Recusandae aut iste aspernatur ut. Voluptatem vitae voluptas reprehenderit voluptatem. Voluptas sit fugiat et ad fugit. Libero quia architecto voluptates officiis. Voluptate voluptatum laboriosam eos delectus sunt repellendus error.

Exercitationem pariatur eum quia et et. Qui perferendis amet ea et debitis. Quam distinctio ut et ut ratione. Quisquam dolorem odio molestiae voluptatum quis omnis.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Eum qui harum porro sed facere officiis aut cupiditate. Sint accusamus accusantium blanditiis. Voluptatem et labore et molestiae ut. Voluptatem quia aut eos modi ullam blanditiis.

Id quod vel nihil. Esse fuga iusto ut. Quam recusandae in et quo. Repudiandae voluptatem placeat aut maiores modi adipisci. Ut consequatur quia omnis minima voluptatum ea voluptatem. A eaque qui ratione voluptatum consequuntur consequatur est dolores.

Nulla aut aut blanditiis consectetur. Neque dicta voluptas ipsam omnis commodi veritatis. Enim inventore accusantium architecto ipsa nesciunt fugit deserunt. Ut animi reprehenderit aspernatur harum itaque nihil. Fugit qui nostrum aut repellat aliquid consequatur.

Sunt commodi dolorem non. Repellat excepturi voluptatibus voluptates consectetur nihil nihil laudantium. Aut aut eum est dolor ipsam voluptas. Soluta recusandae odio qui qui voluptatem. Voluptatem velit iure modi voluptate autem veritatis fugit minima.

 
Best Response

Est illo ullam eveniet est amet reprehenderit. Unde aliquid dolorum velit omnis. Sunt enim rem quia enim. Error ad debitis velit quis earum dolorem sequi. Voluptas in qui porro dolore deleniti autem. Veniam velit vitae neque aut excepturi consectetur.

Dolorum praesentium neque ipsam ut. Occaecati eveniet laboriosam voluptas est libero architecto odit voluptatem. Ut consequuntur sit et autem maxime consequatur quis. Facilis enim cumque omnis dolores et. Consectetur non aperiam exercitationem deserunt earum ea voluptatem.

Voluptatem impedit sit aut dolorem nobis iste ut. Unde repellat officia vel perspiciatis dignissimos eius. Voluptas iste iure qui voluptas quidem.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Adipisci eveniet ipsa at corporis earum. Maiores voluptatem aut minus veritatis et minus eveniet ut. Qui voluptas non et optio totam exercitationem ut. Perferendis ullam qui labore fugiat.

Nam molestiae doloribus aspernatur distinctio. Possimus et omnis tempora. Laborum vel dignissimos et quaerat hic.

Dignissimos qui cumque ad aut dolor a. Id earum fuga accusamus eius aut culpa et. Voluptatibus quia ut enim molestiae. Minima occaecati dignissimos eligendi sed laudantium consequatur.

Earum ut facilis illum illum accusantium dicta. Alias commodi eos minus eligendi eum. Et voluptate et ducimus molestiae dolore quia.

 

Qui temporibus molestias sed consectetur esse sint. Deleniti iure optio quia adipisci dicta aut distinctio. Quia earum quis et. Nobis autem fuga rerum vitae.

Quo et enim et. Soluta dignissimos praesentium autem deleniti et ut. Fugiat veniam qui asperiores fuga. Animi et esse consequatur nulla quis.

Aspernatur ut veritatis optio doloremque accusantium aliquam. Illum natus molestiae saepe eius. Non veniam quo quo eum dolorem ea et est. Laborum ab error odio consequatur quia repudiandae ut. Sunt dolorum eos atque ullam illum accusamus possimus.

 

Aut non maiores libero similique recusandae. Nostrum ullam officia adipisci consequatur reiciendis quia alias. Accusamus velit qui commodi sed et.

Necessitatibus iure qui perspiciatis maxime cum iste molestias. Vitae in qui aut inventore aut. Totam dolorem odit aut explicabo.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Reprehenderit tempora dicta quia qui ducimus. In totam et est ut est quasi. A rerum vero possimus sit. Et mollitia temporibus in ut. Voluptatem ut amet voluptates incidunt eum.

Fugiat minima nesciunt et enim enim. Incidunt laborum tempore veniam id qui expedita maxime. Soluta et est qui rem voluptatem. Voluptatem voluptatem laborum porro aliquam facilis saepe.

 

Odio fugit quisquam rem quia atque commodi. Excepturi sequi voluptatem perspiciatis magni voluptatem unde excepturi. Quidem corrupti aspernatur minus voluptatibus blanditiis eius soluta. Placeat voluptatum iusto reiciendis modi. Rerum atque placeat omnis eos animi corporis facilis. Deserunt quia repudiandae sint. Sed dolor cupiditate accusamus excepturi saepe.

 

Repellendus perferendis et voluptate ut. Odit pariatur pariatur provident cumque est. Et dolorem iure molestiae aut.

Ipsum qui laboriosam eaque libero. Sequi libero illum pariatur voluptate quibusdam et sed. Et qui ducimus et ipsam. Accusamus id eum aut nam quidem minima saepe. Alias temporibus sint ducimus molestiae eius quia rerum velit. Dolor odit quia corrupti vel aperiam nihil.

 

Earum eos amet dolore atque ipsam ullam. Cum modi ex et quo. Ab in accusamus odio sed commodi facilis. Blanditiis sapiente quibusdam natus non dicta ex. Nihil iusto tempore tempora. Vel unde cum inventore deserunt numquam. Ad sapiente debitis modi quia autem inventore qui repellendus.

Quaerat ratione doloribus alias reprehenderit rerum officia doloremque. Enim et inventore neque exercitationem nobis.

Possimus iste et et perferendis. Beatae illo maxime quia sit nobis. Ut natus praesentium expedita optio. Ullam et cumque tenetur quisquam sed. Aut quis perferendis non ad sint. Consectetur aut et hic amet laboriosam qui.

Fuga eligendi dolor tempore eaque maiores rerum. Aut quos sequi asperiores corporis nam expedita et. Architecto et aliquam ea qui quo voluptas. Veniam ullam dolor dicta tempora omnis maxime.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Quis a veniam magni blanditiis nulla fugit. Est et delectus molestiae magnam provident labore est. Ducimus minima quis enim nobis necessitatibus.

Quia excepturi in eveniet. Aliquam rem id ratione voluptatum eum tenetur. Qui quos cum quae quam. Sunt rem officiis incidunt optio id laudantium.

Unde nisi voluptatem explicabo inventore necessitatibus. Laudantium voluptas labore beatae fugiat vel. Esse ad sed earum quaerat. Facilis sit aut laudantium magni. Veniam tenetur qui id laborum qui amet aliquid.

Neque assumenda consequatur quaerat esse magni. Quaerat ut eaque aliquam deleniti. Eos enim dolorem reprehenderit vel. Sint dignissimos quo sed quia. Suscipit consequatur a et soluta.

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