Schwarzman Loves Him Some Mitt

Eddie Braverman's picture
Rank: The Pro | 21,129

Bloomberg ran this great interview with Blackstone's Steve Schwarzman yesterday, and it covers a lot of ground. Schwarzman goes into why all hope is not lost for Europe (in fact he's still a buyer), why he loves Catholic schools, why 45% of the country should at least pay something in taxes, and how Mitt Romney made him millions while he was at Bain. The interviewer tries a few "Gotcha" questions about taxing the poor, but Schwarzman deflects them with his typical aplomb. I gotta say, he did cast Romney in a different light for me. Enjoy:

Comments (107)

Dec 1, 2011

Honestly, I'm so sick and tired of hearing dickheads rattle on about how 45% of the country needs to be "part of the system" and have "skin in the game." These people have no fucking skin to put in the game!

When he says that something seems "somewhat odd" about some people not paying federal income taxes, it honestly blows my mind. You know what seems "somewhat odd" to me?

--Bailing out big banks that completely cratered the global economy, then not doing anything to prevent them from getting bigger and more interconnected, and letting them lobby Congress after receiving tax payer money. Among other things...

I think that's "somewhat odd."

Fuckin' a, you'd think that people make it a goal to "pay no taxes." First of all, these people are fucking dirt poor and likely qualify for the earned income tax credit (an anti-poverty tool that has historically been supported by both Democrats and Republicans, including Ronnie Raygun).

Second off, they can't avoid all taxes, they pay state, local, sales taxes, vice taxes (i.e. cigarettes), and what have you, so they don't "pay no taxes." And honestly, no one WANTS to be in that situation. It isn't like I'm going to one day say "well, I don't want to pay taxes, so I'm going to quit my job, burn all of my savings, and enter a life of poverty so I can get the earned income tax credit and stick it to the rich guys!" No one does this, no one wants to live like that, and thanks to the economy being in the shitter (in large part due to the actions of bailed out TBTF banks), people who are in this situation are oftentimes fucked beyond reason.

Schwarzman can eat a dick and die slow.

Dec 1, 2011
TheKing:

Fuckin' a, you'd think that people make it a goal to "pay no taxes." First of all, these people are fucking dirt poor and likely qualify for the earned income tax credit (an anti-poverty tool that has historically been supported by both Democrats and Republicans, including Ronnie Raygun).

Second off, they can't avoid all taxes, they pay state, local, sales taxes, vice taxes (i.e. cigarettes), and what have you, so they don't "pay no taxes." And honestly, no one WANTS to be in that situation. It isn't like I'm going to one day say "well, I don't want to pay taxes, so I'm going to quit my job, burn all of my savings, and enter a life of poverty so I can get the earned income tax credit and stick it to the rich guys!" No one does this, no one wants to live like that, and thanks to the economy being in the shitter (in large part due to the actions of bailed out TBTF banks), people who are in this situation are oftentimes fucked beyond reason.

Schwarzman can eat a dick and die slow.

I agree with your sentiment about the bailouts. However, I don't think 45% of the country is dirt fucking poor, and are hanging by a thread, in such a way that paying some portion of their income to the fed would destroy them.

Also I think you're correct in saying that no one WANTS to be in that situation, but there are plenty of people not actively working at getting out of that situation / victimizing themselves.

Theres more equity out there available for people who put in the effort than most realize.

Dec 1, 2011
TheKing:

Honestly, I'm so sick and tired of hearing dickheads rattle on about how 45% of the country needs to be "part of the system" and have "skin in the game." These people have no fucking skin to put in the game!

When he says that something seems "somewhat odd" about some people not paying federal income taxes, it honestly blows my mind. You know what seems "somewhat odd" to me?

--Bailing out big banks that completely cratered the global economy, then not doing anything to prevent them from getting bigger and more interconnected, and letting them lobby Congress after receiving tax payer money. Among other things...

I think that's "somewhat odd."

Fuckin' a, you'd think that people make it a goal to "pay no taxes." First of all, these people are fucking dirt poor and likely qualify for the earned income tax credit (an anti-poverty tool that has historically been supported by both Democrats and Republicans, including Ronnie Raygun).

Second off, they can't avoid all taxes, they pay state, local, sales taxes, vice taxes (i.e. cigarettes), and what have you, so they don't "pay no taxes." And honestly, no one WANTS to be in that situation. It isn't like I'm going to one day say "well, I don't want to pay taxes, so I'm going to quit my job, burn all of my savings, and enter a life of poverty so I can get the earned income tax credit and stick it to the rich guys!" No one does this, no one wants to live like that, and thanks to the economy being in the shitter (in large part due to the actions of bailed out TBTF banks), people who are in this situation are oftentimes fucked beyond reason.

Schwarzman can eat a dick and die slow.

A kindred spirit in Finance!!! Good work mate.

Dec 1, 2011

To add: I don't really think this dickhead can talk about taxes when the bulk of his income is taxed at 15% via the carried interest loophole. And, once more, he can eat a dick and die slow.

Dec 1, 2011

interesting find, thanks for posting eddie

Dec 1, 2011

LOL @TheKing

As he was going on about what's fair and how we should all do something (which I don't disagree with, btw) I was thinking to myself, "Sure thing, Stevie. While we're at it we can reinstate the draft, with zero deferments. That way rich kids can get their asses shot off, too. Since we're all carrying the load and all."

Dec 2, 2011
Edmundo Braverman:

LOL @TheKing

As he was going on about what's fair and how we should all do something (which I don't disagree with, btw) I was thinking to myself, "Sure thing, Stevie. While we're at it we can reinstate the draft, with zero deferments. That way rich kids can get their asses shot off, too. Since we're all carrying the load and all."

amen to this. the rich used to regard military service as an honorable and expected calling. at my college we have a list of alumni killed in the nation's war in the main hall. even as enrollment increased, the deaths started dropping off hard around the time of the korean war.

Dec 1, 2011

TheKing I disagree with you quite a bit but you make great points. And as Eddie pointed out in a NSFW a few months back, there's really nothing to take from the poor (in the context of closing the budget deficit). So the 45%, 50%, whatever shouldn't be punished with a greater tax burden in this economy, IMO.

The people making these points about so many not paying taxes aren't the dickheads. It IS a big deal that there's no consideration from most of the population an whether our entitlements are sustainable. But the dickheads are the politicans who manipulate the poor and scare them into voting a certain way, as in, the Republicans want to starve your children and throw grandma down a flight of stairs, etc.

Dec 1, 2011

Oh please, 45% of the country doesn't have any skin to put in the game? Thats a bunch of bullshit.

How much does it cost to support one human being in the United States? Schwartzman likely pays more in taxes in a SINGLE year than most of the people in the 55% of this country who DO pay taxes will pay in entire lifetime. Probably 99.5% of the people on this web site, who FYI are in the top 5% of the country income-wise, fall into that bucket. How many tax dollars does it cost to sustain a single human being in this country? Police, public education, infrastructure, etc... does Schwartzman consume 100,000x the government resources as the rest of us?

Should he be subsidizing my lifestyle choices? If I choose not to be a corporate monkey, if I choose not to live a 100 a week life... instead I want to be fulfilled... I want to explore the arts. I want to learn to paint and go to obscure music festivals and be inspired.... if I want to take a stab at making it in Hollywood, to become a famous actor... to become a screen writer... etc... if I choose those things, and am as a result unable to pay MY SHARE of what I'm consuming of public resources (police, education, national defense, useless politicians), Steve should foot the bill?

This country is not supposed to be a dysfunctional billionaire magnates family.... where the father pours his heart, soul, blood and sweat to create and has an army of useless ingrate children satiating their wanderlust by the grace of his checkbook. I personally would encourage my kids to live a more fulfilling life, thats one of the reasons we do what we do. But they are his kids, he is beholden to them. The 45% who don't pay taxes in this country are not Steve's kids. And they are not my kids. Grow some balls and take care of yourself and your family.

Dec 1, 2011
Marcus_Halberstram:

Should he be subsidizing my lifestyle choices? If I choose not to be a corporate monkey, if I choose not to live a 100 a week life... instead I want to be fulfilled... I want to explore the arts. I want to learn to paint and go to obscure music festivals and be inspired.... if I want to take a stab at making it in Hollywood, to become a famous actor... to become a screen writer... etc... if I choose those things, and am as a result unable to pay MY SHARE of what I'm consuming of public resources (police, education, national defense, useless politicians), Steve should foot the bill?

Dude, your argument exemplifies the need for the abolition of taxation on the Federal Government level. It breeds incredible resentment. Why do you want more people to feed the beast?

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Dec 1, 2011

@Marcus,

I completely agree that everyone should aim higher and that my life choices shouldn't have a negative economic impact on someone who made different choices. And I don't think anyone would disagree that welfare abuse should not be tolerated and that we need wholesale entitlement reform in this country. That said, most of the essential services you refer to (police, fire, etc...) are financed through property and sales taxes - which are absolutely paid by everyone in direct and mostly equitable proportion to their income.

The poor have less to spend, so they pay less sales taxes. If they had more, they'd pay more. Same with property taxes. You could argue that the poor don't own shit, but don't think for a minute that property taxes aren't priced into the rent they pay to their landlords. Again, someone in a shitty $350/month studio pays less than the guy renting a $2,000/month house, but housing is highly relative to income as well (in other words, few people choose to live in shitholes if they can afford better).

The roads are another prime example of an "equitable" tax (if there is such a thing). Roads are mostly financed through gas taxes, so everyone who uses them (with the obvious exception of pedestrians and bicyclists) pay in equal proportion to their use.

Dec 1, 2011

The problem is you can either pay nothing and get something or pay something and complain. The lower half of this country pay nothing to contribute to the Federal government. Yet they continue to blame those who pay taxes and support the government.

The poor pay nothing and that is fine. They should be grateful that they get to live in a country as great as the USA and pay nothing to the Federal government that ensures a sovereign US nation. Instead they "rise up" against evil corporations and bankers who force them to show up late to their minimum wage job and fuck without a condom so they have 4 kids that they cannot afford.

You guys gotta watch out. Coca-Cola sends people to your house to put holes in your condoms and hold you down as they use your charge card to buy stuff. Much like the bankers at JPMorgan who kidnapped your mom and forced you to buy a house more expensive than you can afford or stole your identity and bought 4 LCD TV's on your dime.

Evil bankers and corporate devils. Forcing people to do stuff they don't want. Booooooo

Also, I always enjoy how deaf certain people can be. You talk about the poor paying NOTHING in FEDERAL taxes and the response is how they pay cigarette taxes or state taxes (many pay no state either).

Dec 1, 2011

I hear some of the counterpoints to what I said and appreciate the feedback.

I just find it laughable that dickheads like Mitch McConnell will rant and rave about how the most marginal increase on the top tax bracket in this country would hurt "job creators" and be generally devastating to the economy, but then simultaneously argue that the weakest among us need to pay their fair share.

I'm not saying I want to subsidize people's lives, and there sure as shit are issues with entitlements. But, to argue with all one's might against marginally raising taxes on the most well-to-do while simultaneously arguing for the least among us to pay their "fair share" just strikes me as dishonest and hypocritical.

Note: before anyone calls me a libtard or some bullshit, my choice for 2012 is either Huntsman or Ron Paul.

Dec 1, 2011
TheKing:

... would hurt "job creators" and be generally devastating to the economy, but then simultaneously argue that the weakest among us need to pay their fair share.

listen libtard, there's nothing hypocritical about that. the 'weakest' among us (in the richest nation ever) DO need to pay something and the burden held by job creators is too high. why do you find this concept laughable? this cannot last forever and will lead to our demise. my ass you support huntsman.

Dec 1, 2011
bortz911:
TheKing:

... would hurt "job creators" and be generally devastating to the economy, but then simultaneously argue that the weakest among us need to pay their fair share.

listen libtard, there's nothing hypocritical about that. the 'weakest' among us (in the richest nation ever) DO need to pay something and the burden held by job creators is too high. why do you find this concept laughable? this cannot last forever and will lead to our demise. my ass you support huntsman.

So eloquent for a college student!

Dec 1, 2011
bortz911:

listen libtard, there's nothing hypocritical about that. the 'weakest' among us (in the richest nation ever) DO need to pay something and the burden held by job creators is too high. why do you find this concept laughable? this cannot last forever and will lead to our demise. my ass you support huntsman.

The problem isn't that the top pays too much and the bottom pays to little. The problem is that we pay.

What necessary service does our central government provide? Why should anyone pay anything? Did the central government help you earn your income? Seriously, how does the federal government help anyone? Taxation is just confiscation and redistribution to those lucky enough to have a connection with some Senator. Look at the waste in defence spending. We aren't fighting anyone, yet we have the lethal conglomeration of young men and equipment in the history of the world. Why not close ALL bases outside the USA. Do we really need to pay for Japan's defence? Do we need to pay for Europe's defence? Do we need to pay for all the god damn bases in the ME and Pacific? Social Security is a massive joke. Why not end it? Why tax people more when you could allow people to save for their own twilight? Medicare is going broke. Why not end it and reform healthcare so we can buy pharmaceuticals as cheaply as one can if they go to Mexico? Why not allow foreign companies to compete in American healthcare?

Look at discretionary spending. Not a dime of it is useful or constitutional. Why have a Department of Education, Commerce, Agriculture when their underlying functions are to redistribute income?

People allow themselves to be caught up in this useless debate. The problem isn't taxation, its spending.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Dec 1, 2011

Always the response. Lets just raise taxes "a lil bit". It will benefit us all. Meanwhile the US government fucking burns stacks of hundreds to keep warm.

Taxes should not be increased. The budget needs to be cut. We ca choose to cut fat or cut muscle, but we don't need one fucking dime more to be given to the government.

Not one dime.

Dec 1, 2011

ANT - I didn't actually call for higher taxes, I simply said it's dishonest for someone to argue against tax increases for the wealthy but for tax increases for the poor. Either they both hurt the economy or neither of them do.

Also, who is "blaming those who pay taxes and support the government?" What does that even mean?

Dec 1, 2011

Look at the end of the day... I'm super driven to excel. I work my fucking ass off. And its hard. It sucks pissing away your twenties chasing the something that you not so subconsciously know most likely isn't really going to have been worth the sacrifice (the time sacrificed vs. any amount of money).

When the lay-off axe is swinging, when I'm really fed up with shit... I seriously think to myself, would I be happy waiting tables in a little European restaurant and going to culinary school? Or going to film school and try be a screen writer.

I make a lot of sacrifices to pursue my dream, whatever it may be. And I resent that there are people in this country that are capable of pursuing my fantasy scenario by the grace of my tax dollars and then have the gall to fucking complain about the inequities of my contribution/influence in this country.

And Edmundo, I hadn't even yet touched on the welfare system. I'm talking straight tax dollars. While you're correct about the state vs. local taxes support basic needs.... many of the largest largest revenue drains are funded through the Federal Government. Its also the Federal tax structrue that is frequently the point of contention (loop holes, tax breaks, etc...).

Dec 1, 2011
Marcus_Halberstram:

Look at the end of the day... I'm super driven to excel. I work my fucking ass off. And its hard. It sucks pissing away your twenties chasing the something that you not so subconsciously know most likely isn't really going to have been worth the sacrifice (the time sacrificed vs. any amount of money).

This paragraph resonated with me big time. I'm sure I'm not alone on that.

Dec 1, 2011

Great video. Always wonderful to hear a well spoken and eloquent Republican. The dollar amount is not important, the fact that people pay nothing into a system and then pound their fist on their chest and scream that the people who pay the entire bill for them don't pay enough is the issue.

Instead of raising taxes on anyone, we need to remove government influence. Eliminate the tax deductiblity of mortgages. Remove all benefit, tax wise, to being married. Stop allowing people to deduct children. Simplify the tax code and structure. I am fine with 25% not paying taxes, but no way in hell should 50% get a free ride. This mantra that we should tax people who have more than "we think is enough" is a slippery slope and un American. Just because you CAN shake someone down doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Dec 1, 2011

@ Theking, great post. However, I am diametrically opposed to you; I actually think too many people pay income taxes. The federal government didn't help you make your income, so why should they have a claim on any portion of it? The income tax is nothing more than redistribution to defence contractors, banks and worthless bureaucrats. Nothing more, and unfortunately, far less.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Dec 1, 2011

Not enough of you are using the language of political philosophy to discuss why it's sure as hell important to get that 45% number way, WAY lower.

Without a universally applied and accepted belief in EQUAL civic duty, nations fall apart. It happened to Rome, and it will happen to us if we don't stop bickering and get out collective crap together. When the top 1% of wealth-owners are paying 40% of our country's income taxes, and when 45% of Americans are paying no income tax at all, a lot of theories that you might consider overly abstract and theoretical start kicking in IRL.

Does this 45% include a certain number of people who are way below the poverty line and would be physically incapable of paying even an extra dollar? Sure. Does it include a huge number of people who SHOULD be paying income tax, but don't? Yes.

What Schwarzman means by "skin in the game" is that without some sort of communal vested interest in the financial improvement of the United States of America, we are boned. Absolutely boned. When the citizenry starts to fall apart and divide itself into disparate groups of subsidizers and subsidizees, the collective morale of the nation starts to collapse. The two cease to have any direction in common and turn on each other. The rich get sick and tired of pulling all the weight, and the lower-middle class loses any sort of financial connection to the country that reminds them that they and the rich are both citizens of the same homeland, that everyone needs to contribute. It's not really about the "bottom line," that the extra dollar from someone making 65k a year is going to completely cover our massive debt burden. It's conceptual. It's about what it means to be a nation at all.

What we have in modern-day America, friends, is not a climate of haves and have-nots, but a culture of contributors and non-contributors. This is not really the non-contributors' fault. It's not anyone's "fault." Globalization and the rapid, exponential explosion of technology have essentially destroyed the economic value of a large number of people in the U.S. They simply have nothing to contribute to the economy anymore. They have no money, bad credit, no relevant job skills, and no conception of how to change any of those things. In pure financial terms, they are nothing more than a drain on the system, bringing us down.

The focus, then, should be on a civic revival of massive proportions. People should be constantly informing this non-contributing class of their situation with 100% blunt honesty: "Look, what are you qualified to do? Okay, well, listen, that job no longer exists [whether in the U.S. specifically or anywhere at all]. You need to develop your marketable skills. Now. Go to technical school. Use the internet as often as possible. Your old job is never coming back. You need to transform yourself into a 21st century worker, rather than a worker circa 1948. Now."
I would be onboard with the government reallocating its largely ineffective and damaging redistributive efforts into job training programs and the expansion of public information technology to kickstart this rejuvenation process.

Along with that must come the universal adoption of civic duty that I'm talking about. Everyone should be willing to partake in the entire political process: voting, paying taxes, etc. Ideally, we should have a 90% tax-paying citizenry and 90% turnout on election day (the latter will eventually be achieved over the next decade or so via next-gen online processes like Americans Elect).

Without all of this, we're doomed.

"The disdain of profit is due to ignorance."
- F.A. Hayek

    • 1
Dec 1, 2011

We need to completely scrap the tax code and replace it with a simpler one with NO loopholes.

If they aren't ready to do that, let the Bush Tax Cuts expire. EVERYONE needs to feel the pain or it's class warfare, IMO.

Dec 1, 2011
txjustin:

We need to completely scrap the tax code and replace it with a simpler one with NO loopholes.

If they aren't ready to do that, let the Bush Tax Cuts expire. EVERYONE needs to feel the pain or it's class warfare, IMO.

So passing the cuts in the first place, which disproportionately benefited the wealthy, was also class warfare, correct? The term "class warfare" is so fucking dumb.

But yes, they should be allowed to expire.

Dec 1, 2011
duffmt6:
txjustin:

We need to completely scrap the tax code and replace it with a simpler one with NO loopholes.

If they aren't ready to do that, let the Bush Tax Cuts expire. EVERYONE needs to feel the pain or it's class warfare, IMO.

So passing the cuts in the first place, which disproportionately benefited the wealthy, was also class warfare, correct? The term "class warfare" is so fucking dumb.

But yes, they should be allowed to expire.

The tax cuts did not benefit the wealthy. They benefited the people who pay the most in taxes.

Dec 1, 2011

Unbelievable that this asshole has the gall to want more people to pay taxes when he so famously compared the proposal to end the Carried Interest Exemption to Hitler invading the Rhineland. What an imbecile...

Dec 1, 2011
Croato87:

Unbelievable that this asshole has the gall to want more people to pay taxes when he so famously compared the proposal to end the Carried Interest Exemption to Hitler invading the Rhineland. What an imbecile...

Now this is what I'm talking about.

Dec 1, 2011

Not to hijack the thread, but I gotta admit this went in a whole other direction than I thought it would. I thought for sure we'd be talking about his relationship with Romney and how Romney was a rainmaker at Bain.

I just can't get my head around the Mormon thing. Call me old fashioned, but how do you produce a fucking 30-bagger and not celebrate with hookers and blow?

Dec 1, 2011
Edmundo Braverman:

I just can't get my head around the Mormon thing. Call me old fashioned, but how do you produce a fucking 30-bagger and not celebrate with hookers and blow?

THIS needs to get asked at a campaign stop.

Dec 1, 2011
Edmundo Braverman:

I just can't get my head around the Mormon thing. Call me old fashioned, but how do you produce a fucking 30-bagger and not celebrate with hookers and blow?

what's a 30-bagger? Please share for us youngsters.

I bet Romney has had some insane weekends, even if he had to go to Ibiza or something to accomplish that...

Dec 1, 2011
bortz911:
Edmundo Braverman:

I just can't get my head around the Mormon thing. Call me old fashioned, but how do you produce a fucking 30-bagger and not celebrate with hookers and blow?

what's a 30-bagger? Please share for us youngsters.

I bet Romney has had some insane weekends, even if he had to go to Ibiza or something to accomplish that...

A 30 multiple on your initial investment. In other words, you made 30 times your money in profit. Schwarzman mentioned that on their 2nd deal with Romney they made 30 times on their money.

Dec 1, 2011

Thanks for the link. The top 1% of earners pay the majority of taxes for the Federal government. I think we should all thank them for contributing so much so 50% of Americans can enjoy this nation without contributing anything.

You cannot get a tax cut unless you actually pay taxes. Bush tax cuts lowered taxes on this who disproportionately carry the burden.

Thanks W!

Dec 1, 2011
ANT:

Thanks for the link. The top 1% of earners pay the majority of taxes for the Federal government. I think we should all thank them for contributing so much so 50% of Americans can enjoy this nation without contributing anything.

You cannot get a tax cut unless you actually pay taxes. Bush tax cuts lowered taxes on this who disproportionately carry the burden.

Thanks W!

Oh really! The top 1% pay a lot taxes. No fucking way!

Doesn't change the fact that the Bush tax cuts disproportionately benefited the wealthy. That's class warfare!!!!!!!!

Dec 1, 2011

Just for the record, any argument about the % of tax revenues that the top 1% pays needs to be accompanied by information on the income and net wealth of the top 1%. Taxes paid are relative, and if the top 1% earn an extraordinary amount more than the rest of the country, it is only fair that they pay in relation to that income. It is ridiculous to argue that the top 1% (I'm not suggesting anyone here is making this argument) should pay less in taxes because 50% of tax revenues come from the top 1%, without looking at the income distribution of the top 1% to see if they earn a similar amount of the total income in this country.

If the top 1% (or whatever percentile group you chose) earn significantly more than everyone else, it is only fair that the % of revenue they provide to the federal government is significanlty more than everyone else.

Dec 1, 2011
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is... rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a></span>:

Just for the record, any argument about the % of tax revenues that the top 1% pays needs to be accompanied by information on the income and net wealth of the top 1%. Taxes paid are relative, and if the top 1% earn an extraordinary amount more than the rest of the country, it is only fair that they pay in relation to that income. It is ridiculous to argue that the top 1% (I'm not suggesting anyone here is making this argument) should pay less in taxes because 50% of tax revenues come from the top 1%, without looking at the income distribution of the top 1% to see if they earn a similar amount of the total income in this country.

If the top 1% (or whatever percentile group you chose) earn significantly more than everyone else, it is only fair that the % of revenue they provide to the federal government is significanlty more than everyone else.

Thank you for articulating that. I was preoccupied with a rage seizure at my desk and couldn't type anything too coherent.

Dec 1, 2011

If I have a million bucks and we are eating dinner and I pay 90% of the bill, it might be a drop in the bucket for me, but you are still eating for basically free. You might warm your heart by telling yourself it is a small fraction of my wealth, but that doesn't mean you aren't free loading.

We all benefit from being an American, even the poorest. Yet only 50% pay. The richest 1% pay the majority of Federal taxes. I don't care if they have a ton left over, it is still paying the bill for someone else.

Bush tax cuts went to tax payers. I am still trying to figure out how you can cut taxes on people who pay no taxes.

Dec 1, 2011
ANT:

If I have a million bucks and we are eating dinner and I pay 90% of the bill, it might be a drop in the bucket for me, but you are still eating for basically free. You might warm your heart by telling yourself it is a small fraction of my wealth, but that doesn't mean you aren't free loading.

We all benefit from being an American, even the poorest. Yet only 50% pay. The richest 1% pay the majority of Federal taxes. I don't care if they have a ton left over, it is still paying the bill for someone else.

Bush tax cuts went to tax payers. I am still trying to figure out how you can cut taxes on people who pay no taxes.

You would be a pretty big dick of a friend to not pay for someone's dinner when you are millionaire and they are broke as shit. Assuming "dinner" is the US federal gov't budget- you are dining at a pretty fancy fucking restaurant too. My broke ass would be pretty pissed off if you invited me to Delmonico's expecting that I would split the bill with you.

Dec 1, 2011

You would be a shitty friend if you always expected me to pay.

I suppose you would fuck my chick and take my car because in your mind I could get more of each? Glad to know morals are only relevant when everyone has equal wealth.

What you should have said is a good friend who is wealthy would never let a poor friend pay, although the friend should be ready and willing to pay because he benefited from the meal also.

Dec 1, 2011
ANT:

What you should have said is a good friend who is wealthy would never let a poor friend pay, although the friend should be ready and willing to pay because he benefited from the meal also.

Fine, then phrase it like this. The top income earners should "never let a poor friend pay".

Problem solved. Thanks ANT.

Dec 1, 2011

Duff Toast argument.

Dec 1, 2011

Libor, the top 1% do have the highest rate. Now after all the loopholes that are in the tax system they may pay les, but it starts higher. It's not their fault middle class and the lower class can't take advantage or don't know how to take advantage of the current tax system.

Obviously I'm talking earned income, not carried interest/capital gains.

Dec 1, 2011
txjustin:

Libor, the top 1% do have the highest rate. Now after all the loopholes that are in the tax system they may pay les, but it starts higher. It's not their fault middle class and the lower class can't take advantage or don't know how to take advantage of the current tax system.

Obviously I'm talking earned income, not carried interest/capital gains.

I think you missed my point. If top 1% earn 50% of income, its not unreasonable to think they should pay 50% of the tax revenue. I don't know the exact numbers, but my point is that taxes paid as a percentage of federal revenue only matters in relation to income earned. If the top 1% earn 50% of income but only pay 25% of taxes it doesn't seem as fair, even if they are paying a higher marginal tax rate.

You proposed a flat tax above, and a system like that would be fair in these terms. Higher income earners would wind up paying a higher percentage of the overall revenues into the system.

Dec 1, 2011
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is... rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a></span>:
txjustin:

Libor, the top 1% do have the highest rate. Now after all the loopholes that are in the tax system they may pay les, but it starts higher. It's not their fault middle class and the lower class can't take advantage or don't know how to take advantage of the current tax system.

Obviously I'm talking earned income, not carried interest/capital gains.

I think you missed my point. If top 1% earn 50% of income, its not unreasonable to think they should pay 50% of the tax revenue. I don't know the exact numbers, but my point is that taxes paid as a percentage of federal revenue only matters in relation to income earned. If the top 1% earn 50% of income but only pay 25% of taxes it doesn't seem as fair, even if they are paying a higher marginal tax rate.

You proposed a flat tax above, and a system like that would be fair in these terms. Higher income earners would wind up paying a higher percentage of the overall revenues into the system.

I did indeed, thanks for the clarification.

Dec 1, 2011

That's bullshit Duff. They are not responsible for anyone but themselves. As a matter of fact, fuck that shit.

Dec 1, 2011
txjustin:

That's bullshit Duff. They are not responsible for anyone but themselves. As a matter of fact, fuck that shit.

Thanks. I value your insight!

Also, ANT wrote that...

Dec 1, 2011
duffmt6:
txjustin:

That's bullshit Duff. They are not responsible for anyone but themselves. As a matter of fact, fuck that shit.

Thanks. I value your insight!

Also, ANT wrote that...

1) I did write that

2) They don't let poor friends pay, since the poor pay nothing for the Federal bill

3) The poor friend should be ready and happy to pay when the bill does come to him

The poor friend should also not bitch when he gets a free meal and his rich friend gets dessert afterwards.

Dec 1, 2011

In other news, I do appreciate a little mitt now and then, if that's what they're calling it these days

Re: Mitt's presidency, do you finance types put a lot of weight in Romney's consulting background as a good indicator he'd be a good "CEO in chief" and unscrew the economy? I see Schwarzman thinks so but since I don't work in finance or consulting, curious to hear what you think.

Dec 1, 2011

Metaphors help illustrate a point. The paying for dinner one is pretty good. We have a nation of people who are happy to go out to eat and think nothing of someone else paying. On top of that, they complain about the other person, the one paying, that they eat more.

Arguing about % of wealth or anything like that is simply justifying the robbery of people because they have more than XYZ. The top 1% pay the majority of taxes. They shouldn't pay more simply because we think they don't need the money. This is a thief mentality.

Dec 1, 2011
ANT:

Metaphors help illustrate a point. The paying for dinner one is pretty good. We have a nation of people who are happy to go out to eat and think nothing of someone else paying. On top of that, they complain about the other person, the one paying, that they eat more.

Arguing about % of wealth or anything like that is simply justifying the robbery of people because they have more than XYZ. The top 1% pay the majority of taxes. They shouldn't pay more simply because we think they don't need the money. This is a thief mentality.

Unrelated to your point, the metaphor doesn't work because rich people and poor people in this country don't really eat dinner together. I'm not saying never, but the reality of the situation is that people from different economic backgrounds do not really associate with one another in an intimate setting. Bubbles have formed separating people from different income groups.

Dec 1, 2011

I like how Ant and Duff have framed this point. Of course, I'm not sure it's fair to say that the two friends split an equal meal. While there is a lot of focus on welfare/entitlement spending that suggests government disproportionately benefits the poor (and non-taxpaying), one could make the argument that the enforcement of law, national defense and social order, in any specific form, benefits the class of people who are more "successful" in that structure than they would be in a lawless anarchy... Not that I often think about it that way, but I don't think it's as easy as people often suggest to figure out who "benefits" from government spending.

Also, if we combine the point about friends having dinner with AAttiKKus's point about civic responsibility, we get something like:

If I were a millionaire, I would not hesitate to pay for my broke friend's dinner. i think the hesitation of the wealthy in the U.S. to do so probably stems in part from the fact that there is a lack of "friendliness" amongs citizens of differing socioeconomic statuses (which might be called civic responsibility).

To foster a sense of "country as community" rather than "socioeconomic class as community", Edmundo's point about the draft might not be a bad starting point. Heinlein was a fairly staunch libertarian who nonetheless created a society (in Starship Troopers) in which only veterans get to vote...

Dec 1, 2011

Birds of a feather flock together.

Why not make rich people pay all the taxes. I mean fuck it right. Why have 50% of Americans pay anything. Why not have the richest 10% pay everything. They will still have a ton left over. Why shouldn't they just pay our way for everything.

Just me taking scumbag logic to its natural conclusion.

Dec 1, 2011

Honestly, go hang out in lower income areas and then tell me if you feel any desire to pay for them. People paint this fairy tale picture, something resembling industrial era England, of kids with soot on their face and two parents crying over stale bread. In reality you have people who blow off high school, who cannot show up on time to work, who buy booze, cigarettes and lottery tickets. Who have unprotected sex and kids they cannot afford. Who basically don't give a fuck.

As someone who actually has poor friends and as someone who has not only worked with run of the mill people, but managed them, they fucking suck or cause most of their own issues. We are talking about 2-300% turn over in staff because people cannot show up sober or within an hour of when their shift would start.

Dec 1, 2011
ANT:

Honestly, go hang out in lower income areas and then tell me if you feel any desire to pay for them. People paint this fairy tale picture, something resembling industrial era England, of kids with soot on their face and two parents crying over stale bread. In reality you have people who blow off high school, who cannot show up on time to work, who buy booze, cigarettes and lottery tickets. Who have unprotected sex and kids they cannot afford. Who basically don't give a fuck.

As someone who actually has poor friends and as someone who has not only worked with run of the mill people, but managed them, they fucking suck or cause most of their own issues. We are talking about 2-300% turn over in staff because people cannot show up sober or within an hour of when their shift would start.

Fucking unbelievable. Reread your post. You complain about this "fairy tale picture" and then you go and create a "fairy tale picture" where the poor are all high school dropouts with addictions and unwanted pregnancies.

Congrats on having poor friends. That makes everything you say so much more legitimate. /s

Dec 2, 2011
ANT:

Honestly, go hang out in lower income areas and then tell me if you feel any desire to pay for them. People paint this fairy tale picture, something resembling industrial era England, of kids with soot on their face and two parents crying over stale bread. In reality you have people who blow off high school, who cannot show up on time to work, who buy booze, cigarettes and lottery tickets. Who have unprotected sex and kids they cannot afford. Who basically don't give a fuck.

I fucking hate how you constantly make me go back and re quote your posts. Do you just forget what you said or do you get so lost in your own asinine assertions that you need a reminding?

Dec 1, 2011

@Ant

You are totally correct - approached logically, this would be a scumbag situation. That's precisely why I like the friends metaphor. Friends with disparate incomes manage to hang out, often without ever arguing about who pays, and yet the wealthier one doesn't go broke because he has messed up his friend's incentive system...

If we believe that "friendliness" on the scale of a country like the U.S. is not possible, then it's back to pseudo-anarchic libertarianism to me. (Basically the choice between the world of Heinlein's Starship Troopers and the world of his The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

I can see an argument for either one and certainly do not presume to know enough about human nature to know which one is more realistic or ideal.

Edit: just saw your most recent post - again I totally agree. Currently, the poor of the U.S. are also not acting like friends. Some friends of mine are in PhD programs, not all on cushy fellowships. I don't hesitate to pay for them, and they don't order the menu or piss on me for hogging appetizers or get us kicked out of the restaurant. It's a two way street, and both ways are broken. I could see fixing it or just giving up on the road and living in the wilderness (though, given my skill set and physical constitution, I tend to favor civilization...)

Dec 1, 2011

Personally, we are going to end up socialistic. We have too many people that we don't need. Automation and the complexity of the modern economy doesn't require unskilled workers, at least not at the level we have in this country (and the world).

Dec 1, 2011

Creating a fairy tale picture? Fuck you Duff Toast. How about I am an adult who has actually worked with people without a high school education. Who has actually managed people like this. Who associates with these people, who has friends who barely graduated school.

It is called EXPERIENCE. When you get some, come back and talk to me. If you magically think people are all geniuses and just got fucked by corporate America you are a naive little child.

Holy mother fuck. Gotta love this site. Get the fuck out of here.

Dec 1, 2011
ANT:

Creating a fairy tale picture? Fuck you Duff Toast. How about I am an adult who has actually worked with people without a high school education. Who has actually managed people like this. Who associates with these people, who has friends who barely graduated school.

It is called EXPERIENCE. When you get some, come back and talk to me. If you magically think people are all geniuses and just got fucked by corporate America you are a naive little child.

Holy mother fuck. Gotta love this site. Get the fuck out of here.

You're so fucking mature and your credentials really are outstanding. "I've worked with poor people and I'm friends with some too. They are all dumb and lazy. Therefore all poor people are dumb and lazy and they deserve to be poor and they should pay more taxes and actually contribute to society but they can't because they are dumb and lazy."

Dec 1, 2011
Dec 1, 2011

I am providing a real world data point on what it is like to work with and manage people who would fall into the category of lower income. My view is supported by research and various data, such as teen pregnancy, high school drop out rates, drug and alcohol use, criminal behavior and arrests as well as poor financial decisions.

No where did I say every single person was like this. I also did not say they should pay more taxes. I think that the lower 25% should not pay anything, or if they do, it should be a token payment. To say that 50% should not contribute to the Federal budget is a bit much.

Lower income people are largely uneducated, tend to lack basic time management skills and not only make poor financial decisions, but compound that with mind and behavior altering substances. I not only have read this, but I have experienced it, first hand.

Learn how to make an argument and back it up. You have a lot to learn and hopefully one day you will learn, but today isn't that day. I am not a fucking 22 year old kid and I try and refrain from commenting on topics I have no experience with. Hence you will not see me comment on investment banking compensation because I have never been an investment banker. What I will comment on is dealing with people in a lower socioeconomic rung because I have actually experience it, not just reading a Newsweek article about it.

I am also not talking about one brief instance. I am talking about years of working with these people as I went to school and years of volunteering once I graduated. In food kitchens, in inner city schools, with under priviledged kids, etc.

Dec 2, 2011
ANT:

I am providing a real world data point on what it is like to work with and manage people who would fall into the category of lower income. My view is supported by research and various data, such as teen pregnancy, high school drop out rates, drug and alcohol use, criminal behavior and arrests as well as poor financial decisions.

No where did I say every single person was like this. I also did not say they should pay more taxes. I think that the lower 25% should not pay anything, or if they do, it should be a token payment. To say that 50% should not contribute to the Federal budget is a bit much.

Lower income people are largely uneducated, tend to lack basic time management skills and not only make poor financial decisions, but compound that with mind and behavior altering substances. I not only have read this, but I have experienced it, first hand.

Learn how to make an argument and back it up. You have a lot to learn and hopefully one day you will learn, but today isn't that day. I am not a fucking 22 year old kid and I try and refrain from commenting on topics I have no experience with. Hence you will not see me comment on investment banking compensation because I have never been an investment banker. What I will comment on is dealing with people in a lower socioeconomic rung because I have actually experience it, not just reading a Newsweek article about it.

I am also not talking about one brief instance. I am talking about years of working with these people as I went to school and years of volunteering once I graduated. In food kitchens, in inner city schools, with under priviledged kids, etc.

A real world data point = your personal anecdotes. And I'm the one who needs to learn how to make an argument?

Nowhere did you say every person was like this? What about that little "fairy tale version" you painted for us where all poor people are lazy and dumb, backed up by your extensive experience with poor people,. Are you now backtracking on that?

I really don't give a shit how old you are- you are still immature and more opinionated than your intellect should allow. Being condescending while making illogical and circular arguments makes you look like the idiot.

Dec 1, 2011

As a person who have parents and family who are poor, how about you go fuck yourself Ant...
You sound like an Elitist asshole who probably brags about your "black" friends.....
"As someone who actually has poor friends"......fucking tool

Dec 1, 2011

Elitist asshole? I suppose I should sugar coat the facts. As someone who paid his way through school, UG and Masters level and has friends who never went past high school, go fuck YOURSELF.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings by correctly and appropriately characterizing things.

Dec 1, 2011

I have it all wrong. All of my friends and all the other lower income people in the world got fucked by everyone but themselves. None of them made decisions which negatively impacted their lives.

I will never bring it up again because someone might get butt hurt.

Dec 1, 2011

cool story bro

Dec 1, 2011

Nice retort. How about you shelve the butt hurt and rebut my statement. Are you saying, outside of your one data point, that my statement is grossly incorrect.

Additionally, are you talking about working poor/lower middle class, or are you talking about people working fast food at 30?

Dec 1, 2011

give me five minute ant, got to finish this report

Dec 1, 2011

Ok, cool, same here.

Dec 1, 2011

Ok i did get offended by your comments.
I just feel that yes they are alot of poor people who are in their situation
because they are not willing to do what it takes to get out of their situation.
That been said the system that is currently in place does not encourage under privilege minorities
to do better with their live unless they have good influences around them. Programs like Imentor is perfect examples of things that are been put in place to somewhat help the system. Public school in general is not doing their jobs raising our children to actually know what steps to take in life to be successfull. These kids have only ghetto mentors in their life currently so what do u expect to happen in those situations. I dont believe grouping people into a class of drug using degenerate is the appropriate way to make your point. My parents didnt go to college and their basically poor but still somehow sent me to Catholic school all my life...Should they of had to do that? Why cant the current school system be good enough? My whole point is realize that not everyone has the same benefits such as schooling, mentors, opportunities...etc. Those things make such a huge difference.....

Dec 1, 2011

Fair enough. My issue is that we simply cannot just throw money at the problem. The issue is more social than economic. Bad habits hurt many people, especially low who are poor. When you look at this as a behavioral issue, as I do, you want to focus on different things than when you look at it as a purely economic situation.

I am not trying to say that everyone who is poor should be cast in the same light as those who are lazy or use drugs, but this concept that throwing more money at the issue will make anything better is incorrect. If we are going to do something about it we need to change behaviors, not just give more hand outs.

Dec 1, 2011

I also was not specifying minorities. Actually, all the scumbag poor people I know are white.

Dec 1, 2011
Dec 1, 2011

Completely agree with you on that.

Dec 1, 2011

well white poor are worse......just kidding...just kidding

Dec 1, 2011

The social system we have is as, if not more broken than our tax system. I have VAST experience with poor people from all walks of life. That experience includes them being my customers and me volunteering currently. They game the system plain and simple. To top it off, they know they do and are proud of it. I am not saying every poor person is like this, but a large enough percentage are that makes a huge dent in the credibility of the social systems in place.

Dec 2, 2011

Somebody needs to be held accountable:

This is so sad. How does this even happen in the 21st century?

Dec 2, 2011
Edmundo Braverman:

Somebody needs to be held accountable:

This is so sad. How does this even happen in the 21st century?

Not someone, her ovaries. What type of burden is she putting on society and on her kids? That woman should she sterilized. Someone needs to pay, for her kids? Man, thank fing god I know no one like that.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

Dec 2, 2011
Edmundo Braverman:

Somebody needs to be held accountable:

This is so sad. How does this even happen in the 21st century?

Tragic. People should have their kids taken away for this kind of negligence. Poor kids.

Dec 2, 2011

Learn what a real world data point is kid. It is called being personally involved with things. Not once, but countless times.

Please quote me where I said every poor person was dumb and on drugs. Should be pretty easy, even for you.

Keep coming at me with these Duff Toast arguments kid. You brighten my day.

Dec 2, 2011
ANT:

Learn what a real world data point is kid. It is called being personally involved with things. Not once, but countless times.

Your "real world data point" amounts to a fucking anecdote + a ton of stereotypes. Shut the fuck up.

Dec 2, 2011

1) You claim I say something and then bitch when I ask you to prove it? And I am the bitch. Get off your lazy ass and back up your statement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote
I think you are a good kid so I am going to take them time to educate you. Should have happened by now, but alas, the responsibility falls on me.

My experience and stories are not brief, nor are they only one time in occurrence. I was providing a "real world data point" because I was the man on the ground. Many people on this website have not had to deal with the shit I have dealt with. Bravo to them, because it fucking sucked for me. But such is life. I made the the decision to not bitch, but to make due with what I have (too bad OWS wouldn't take a page from my playbook).

In retelling my story, I was trying to illustrate what has been shown in a variety of papers and research reports, that poverty (lower 25%) is often caused by behavioral or other, self controlled causes. Not everyone, but a significant amount. My personal experience, over a number of years, in a variety of industries and different roles has confirmed this. Hence my statement "a real world data point". It is one thing to read something and take it as fact, it is a whole other thing to real something and see if it is true in the real world.

As for you, Duff Toast, I am still waiting on you to put together a coherent argument. I have faith in you that you can do better. Just try. Refute what I am saying. Or maybe you don't want to put the effort in or possibly learn something. That is fine, but if you are going to continually make baseless comments when people are having an intelligent discussion, you will be relegated to the children's table.

You don't want that now do you?

Dec 2, 2011
ANT:

1) You claim I say something and then bitch when I ask you to prove it? And I am the bitch. Get off your lazy ass and back up your statement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote
I think you are a good kid so I am going to take them time to educate you. Should have happened by now, but alas, the responsibility falls on me.

My experience and stories are not brief, nor are they only one time in occurrence. I was providing a "real world data point" because I was the man on the ground. Many people on this website have not had to deal with the shit I have dealt with. Bravo to them, because it fucking sucked for me. But such is life. I made the the decision to not bitch, but to make due with what I have (too bad OWS wouldn't take a page from my playbook).

In retelling my story, I was trying to illustrate what has been shown in a variety of papers and research reports, that poverty (lower 25%) is often caused by behavioral or other, self controlled causes. Not everyone, but a significant amount. My personal experience, over a number of years, in a variety of industries and different roles has confirmed this. Hence my statement "a real world data point". It is one thing to read something and take it as fact, it is a whole other thing to real something and see if it is true in the real world.

As for you, Duff Toast, I am still waiting on you to put together a coherent argument. I have faith in you that you can do better. Just try. Refute what I am saying. Or maybe you don't want to put the effort in or possibly learn something. That is fine, but if you are going to continually make baseless comments when people are having an intelligent discussion, you will be relegated to the children's table.

You don't want that now do you?

Why did you wikipedia anecdote for me?

How the hell would you know if I am a good kid? Or are you just trying to be condescending again?

Thank you for bitching about how tough you had it then proceeding to tell us you didn't bitch about it.

Regardless of how poverty occurs, you are still making ridiculous blanket statements about poor people. You complained about people's "fairy tale" vision of poor people, but all you seem to do is make blanket statements about the poor based "your experiences" with them (which sound awfully similar to gross stereotypes). Your "real world data" is still fucking anecdotal evidence.

Your final paragraph is fucking bullshit. Every argument you get into on this board you love to try and finish with "I'm waiting for you to actually have an argument..." or some bullshit like that, just so it can seem like you somehow triumphed. It's so immature and transparent. The fact of the matter is, I'm not even looking for debates with you. I'm just calling you out on the endless streams of bullshit you post in every political thread.

Dec 2, 2011
duffmt6:
ANT:

1) You claim I say something and then bitch when I ask you to prove it? And I am the bitch. Get off your lazy ass and back up your statement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote
I think you are a good kid so I am going to take them time to educate you. Should have happened by now, but alas, the responsibility falls on me.

My experience and stories are not brief, nor are they only one time in occurrence. I was providing a "real world data point" because I was the man on the ground. Many people on this website have not had to deal with the shit I have dealt with. Bravo to them, because it fucking sucked for me. But such is life. I made the the decision to not bitch, but to make due with what I have (too bad OWS wouldn't take a page from my playbook).

In retelling my story, I was trying to illustrate what has been shown in a variety of papers and research reports, that poverty (lower 25%) is often caused by behavioral or other, self controlled causes. Not everyone, but a significant amount. My personal experience, over a number of years, in a variety of industries and different roles has confirmed this. Hence my statement "a real world data point". It is one thing to read something and take it as fact, it is a whole other thing to real something and see if it is true in the real world.

As for you, Duff Toast, I am still waiting on you to put together a coherent argument. I have faith in you that you can do better. Just try. Refute what I am saying. Or maybe you don't want to put the effort in or possibly learn something. That is fine, but if you are going to continually make baseless comments when people are having an intelligent discussion, you will be relegated to the children's table.

You don't want that now do you?

Why did you wikipedia anecdote for me?

How the hell would you know if I am a good kid? Or are you just trying to be condescending again?

Thank you for bitching about how tough you had it then proceeding to tell us you didn't bitch about it.

Regardless of how poverty occurs, you are still making ridiculous blanket statements about poor people. You complained about people's "fairy tale" vision of poor people, but all you seem to do is make blanket statements about the poor based "your experiences" with them (which sound awfully similar to gross stereotypes). Your "real world data" is still fucking anecdotal evidence.

Your final paragraph is fucking bullshit. Every argument you get into on this board you love to try and finish with "I'm waiting for you to actually have an argument..." or some bullshit like that, just so it can seem like you somehow triumphed. It's so immature and transparent. The fact of the matter is, I'm not even looking for debates with you. I'm just calling you out on the endless streams of bullshit you post in every political thread.

I posted a variety of links previously with research done on drug use, teen child birth, drop out rates etc. These go hand in glove with my real world data points.

See. Me experiencing things that have been researched. Me taking research and seeing for myself if there is relevance.

You never do argue anything. I am not arguing with you, I am trying to have a debate, on topic. You continually avoid the actual discussion and just post inane replies directed towards me.

Frankly, it is immature and annoying. Try engaging in the conversation, the topic on hand, and stop post irrelevant and vaguely snarky replies to my posts.

Dec 2, 2011

I really like this kid Duff. We share alot of the same views but he is so eloquent!

Dec 2, 2011

Also, I am actually waiting for you to address the topic at hand. All your replies are just petulant hissy fits directed towards myself.

I reiterate. I am still waiting for you to have an argument or contribute to this body of discussion.

Dec 2, 2011
ANT:

I am still waiting for you to have an argument or contribute to this body of discussion.

Forgot to sneak that in there with the previous post?

Dec 2, 2011

Just what WSO needs, another unfunny troll. Great.

Dec 2, 2011
ANT:

Just what WSO needs, another unfunny troll. Great.

I like how when I call you on your shit I become "an unfunny troll". It's also a lot easier to do when you are low on WSO credits and the shitstorm isn't constantly raining down on me.

Do you actually learn anything when people post? Or are you so busy manipulating what they say so you can fit it into your narrow little world view that it goes right over your head?

Dec 2, 2011

Let me see, I have been asking you to address the topic on hand for the past 20 posts, yet you never do. That is what makes you an unfunny troll.

Also, how do credits make someones posts relevant. Who fucking cares. If you think imaginary banana's give what you say credence you are wrong.

Now I am manipulating you? Wow, I didn't realize I was so powerful on an online message board to manipulate your meaning and intentions. For that I apologize.

Please, oh please, address the topic on hand. You bitch about my statements being unfounded or silly anecdotes, well I challenge you to throw up some materials which refute my statements.

If you can do this we can have a conversation. Until then I will have to continually hold your hand through this process. Duff Toast, you can do better.

Dec 2, 2011
ANT:

Also, how do credits make someones posts relevant. Who fucking cares. If you think imaginary banana's give what you say credence you are wrong.

It hurts my internet feelings.

Dec 2, 2011

Also, there has been no shit thrown in this conversation. I am also not the only one who has credits.

Dec 2, 2011
Comment