The BlackHat Interview: 3/4
Mod (Andy) note: The much anticipated BlackHat interview is here (see part 1, part 2). Questions came from myself and members of writing and intern teams. BIG thanks to BH for his really in-depth/quality/quick responses. I promise all of you will have some great takeaways from this series.
If you don't know of BlackHat, he has been in the HF industry for 5 years (broke in straight from ugrad), has been one of the most active members on the site this year, and boasts a formidable 241:27 sb:ms ratio.
Here's how the four part series will go:
- Background / breaking into HF
- Working in HF, Money & Motivation
- This post: Career advice for all you WSO Monkeys + how he advanced in his career
- Last post: General life tips
First question of Part 3: What is the most important piece of advice you could tell a college student?
(btw, try to keep your questions relevant to the current post as he may have likely already answered it in a previous or upcoming post.)
Don’t fool yourself. Especially considering the school I went to, I had friends who came into college thinking they basically HAD to go into a certain industry, force themselves to like a certain thing. The motivation could be prestige, family pride, money, or all of the above, but it’s the worst thing you can do to yourself in college. I’ve always seen college as the time to figure yourself out before the real world starts, and one of the big things you have to do to accomplish that is find out what you enjoy doing all day. Try as much stuff as you can, by yourself or with friends, and once you realize you really enjoy something and it’s practical (people forget this. I like boxing but I’m not going to be a fucking boxer) you need to look into it and don’t lie to yourself and do something that’s gonna pay better or sound better to your parents.
What would you look for in a potential intern candidate?
There's really only three things I'd need to see out of someone to know I can work with them. Even though they're all pretty close in importance, I'll order them this way:
1) Autonomy. I could never have an intern who's either following me around "trying to learn" or is sitting at his desk with big squirrel eyes looking up at me waiting for me to tell him what to do every single time he has a project. Being independent and autonomous is extremely important, so if I were to tell my intern I needed him to take over covering a stock or a certain sector, I'd expect him to take some initiative and figure out how to go about doing that, or at least ask me some questions early on and then go from there. If I'm out of the office all day he'd have to be smart enough to find a way to be productive, otherwise he's just useless to me.
2) Good Sense of Humor. This one could arguably be the most important, but I put it second since it's not actually job-related per se. I could never work with someone who I couldn't be relaxed and joke around with, it's probably the one thing that keeps me sane in this job. If I feel uncomfortable around you, you can damn well guarantee I will not want to be around you ever again. Be lighthearted, have a sense of humor, and don't take yourself or your job too seriously... if you can do that, then even if you absolutely suck at your job I'll at least give you a good recommendation or something.
And 3) Passion for Investing. I know it sounds cliche but honestly most people in this business and people trying to "break in" don't have an actual passion for it. If they did, they'd be spending their free time investing or learning about the markets, following companies, forming opinions on businesses, etc. If I can't sit down at lunch and talk about why XYZ Corp is total horseshit and hear your opinion on it, it's not gonna work for us. And related to that, if you don't really like learning about XYZ Corp and how it operates, the four 10-Ks, 8 10-Qs, and thousand pages of industry reports and research reports I put on your desk probably won't be getting read too quickly...
What are your 3 favorite interview questions you like to ask potential new hires?
Well I haven’t done many interviews at my current fund, but I did quite a few at my last HF and those were the ones that were pretty funny since those guys had a strange faux-badass culture. My favorite definitely has to be a 2 on 1 we did where the other analyst asked the kid “Are you trying to fuck us?” and he had no idea what it meant and ended up thinking we thought he was gay or something. Definitely not what we meant…
Another good one that I like to ask, and I think really tells a lot about someone, is what their favorite movie is, favorite musician, and favorite word. The different responses you get for favorite word are hysterical. I always tell people my word would be “sarcophagus.” I’ve heard answers ranging from clueless arrogance to plain creepiness, with words like “money” and “penetration” respectively. I’d say a 3rd question that’s always a blast is to ask interviewees what they would do if they knew their boss was cheating on his wife and his wife came to him and asked if he knew anything. It’s not about how they answer that question that we like, it’s more about their reaction to it.
The people that laugh and say something witty tended to be our favorite, while people who took it seriously and talked about morality or analyzed how each decision would affect them economically are usually a lot more boring. We wanted to see people take a step back and see the absurdity of the boss’s wife coming to some 1st year analyst for info on her husband’s sex life.
During recruiting, how were you able to set yourself apart from the many other competitive candidates at your school?
Like I said earlier, having experience in the markets and being able to talk about it goes a long, long way. For the job I ended up taking, there was never any competition. Most people interviewing were probably extremely smart people with GPAs much better than my own - I had a 3.3 - and they probably got great internships in something like banking or consulting, so I won't say they weren't "competitive candidates," but for this particular internship they really weren't. I interviewed the day before everyone else did for the position, and essentially the entire interview was just a discussion about the markets and about what I thought of certain businesses and what stocks I liked. For me it was a really laid-back conversation and I ended up cracking jokes with my soon-to-be boss about different CEOs or companies or what have you. At the end of the interview he told me he didn't need to see the other candidates and offered me the job in the room, which was great considering I was jobless if I didn't convert that interview.
But yeah, I'd say the thing that set me apart was that I had been investing for a long time and had a legitimate understanding of the investment process, whereas even at a place like Wharton most people don't. You apply for all the finance jobs under the sun and you probably end up in banking, which you don't necessarily need any certain experience to do, but at a firm that has an intensive research process and no training program, you can't hire just any capable person to come in and do that job. That's where I had an advantage over the people that had much better credentials academically than I did.
----------
Career advancement questions:
You have managed to switch companies quite often--is this a usual occurrence? If not, how did it work out for you?
I'd say I haven't switched any more than most people my age. I've worked at 3 firms: 2 years at my first, 2 years at my second, and coming up on a year at my current firm. I'd say this is fairly common but varies by situation. For most people you'd expect 2 years in investment banking, then typically transition to PE/HF/VC or whatever, and from there you have a little bit of room to move around from shop to shop if you have a diverse enough skill set. You could stay at the same fund for your whole career, of course, but in my case the first HF I worked for started slowing down and I didn't like the environment too much after my first year, so I started looking at my options for lateraling to a different fund. I may have mentioned it before, but I simply contacted the headhunter who originally sought me out for that job, and he helped me get an interview at the fund I'm currently at. The rest is history.
Did you get an mba or are you considering it?
Nope, and never saw the point. Especially since I went to an undergraduate business school, and most of my classes were with MBAs anyways. I don’t think people ever go to learn, and I’ve never seen the value in networking because my entire job is basically research and talking to people, so I’m not sure what more I could really do. Two years of foregoing a wage isn’t exactly an exciting thought either, and there’s like 2 people at my fund that actually have an MBA.
One didn’t come from a finance background so I can see the use for it there, but I’ve made it a point to do my best to not stay in academia any longer than I had already had to. There’s no pay increases for having an MBA in the HF world that I’m aware of, nobody will pay for you to go back, and I can’t imagine it’s any more fun than being out on your own. But for some people it’s a great option, especially if you don’t have a finance background and are trying to break in, or if you’re trying to increase your chances at a certain job. If you’ve got a job lined up and it’s one you like, I don’t see a reason for it.
Who is one person who had a great impact on your life as you live it now?
I'd have to say it was my fiancee. I've always been a bit scattered in terms of going after what I want or kind of asserting myself I think, and as far back as I've known her she's been remarkably supportive of me even when she's had no real reason to be. I think back to when I was interviewing for internships my junior year of college. I had to make a decision between accepting an exploding offer and risking it by taking an interview after the exploding date with the firm I really wanted. I was set to take the exploding offer just to be on the safe side even though I really wanted the other, and I was on the phone with her telling her about it and she pretty much called me out on it and said she couldn't be happy if I wasn't, and I needed to do something about it. I still don't know why she cared so much, which I guess made me a very stupid kid at the time, but long story short she pushed me to follow what I wanted and I ended up getting the job I actually cared about and that pretty much shaped the rest of my career.
That example is just one of a handful of times she's known what I wanted better than I have, and she's kind of helped me figure out when I'm lying to myself. But the biggest reason she's impacted how I live now is she's the reason why a lot of the things I used to think were important really weren't, and she's kind of taken the spot at the top of my list of things to care about now. I owe her quite a bit for lookin' out for me even when I never would have expected her to, so she's definitely the biggest influence on me in the past few years.
Did you ever have a mentor and who were some other influential people who helped you along the way?
The one thing I missed out on was having a mentor for my career. I always had my dad to look up to as far as becoming a man, but never anyone who could give me advice about how to proceed in my career. Rather than mentors, the thing that I did have that gave me a huge advantage is a great group of supporters. My fiancee, like I said, was always there to kind of pick me up and knew what was best for me even when I didn't, so that was a big help getting traction in my career. The same goes for my parents. Neither of them knew anything about business or the first thing about banking or hedge funds or any of that stuff, but they were always asking me what I needed to move forward, or kind of pushing me to find out what the next move should be. I'd say that was probably even better than having a mentor since it helped me learn a lot of stuff on my own, and I think that's a lost art these days.
Tempora dolores quia eum qui quisquam. Beatae recusandae fugit temporibus aut aperiam sunt. Sint nemo sit officiis ut natus. Fugiat expedita ratione voluptates qui iure.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Ea quidem nostrum delectus quas repellendus rerum qui velit. Quia est minus est soluta fugit sed. Explicabo ut voluptatibus ut voluptatum ea consequatur rerum. Rerum est sed veniam commodi dolorum. Aliquam qui eum sapiente tempora molestiae.
Corporis recusandae laborum adipisci. Ab eum et accusantium error ut et ullam tempore. Illo eum velit quod quia et sint nihil magni. Esse autem autem iste fuga ullam hic eos. Ratione neque id ratione ducimus tenetur. Id explicabo hic velit et.
Assumenda sunt explicabo facere et in tenetur error. Consequatur quaerat aut itaque numquam aut. Modi dolor laudantium velit ea omnis rerum sit minus. Nostrum pariatur eaque maiores. Ipsum voluptas et nam voluptates. Officiis amet impedit quo fugit nesciunt.
Eveniet ut facere provident aut et non et omnis. Ipsam fugit nisi et rerum. Consequatur et error consequuntur nulla quod esse ex. Voluptates a asperiores quia hic voluptatem eius inventore voluptas. Dolores rerum culpa alias doloremque ut incidunt nesciunt. Est iure totam laborum et ut amet quia. Voluptatem eos odio impedit sit possimus voluptatem sunt.
Est quo aperiam omnis id ad saepe. Libero ut hic aut accusamus amet laboriosam.
Unde aliquam accusantium nobis amet assumenda. Suscipit accusamus repellendus dolores sit vero aliquid placeat qui. Aut optio iste pariatur soluta tenetur voluptates. Non sint dolor esse.
Ipsa cumque vero qui voluptatem nam eius alias. Ut nesciunt error ut accusamus et aspernatur dolor. Consectetur quasi aut eum in est maxime aut vel. Blanditiis delectus nihil dolorum beatae nobis porro.
Quam voluptatem reiciendis voluptate quaerat. Qui perferendis voluptatem sequi nihil consequatur et accusamus. Error officiis dolorum vitae enim suscipit autem eveniet. Nihil nam repellat cum dolores.
Qui vel et cum vel consequatur qui. Est deleniti tenetur numquam qui rem eligendi quam. Aut molestiae nesciunt id et rem. Quo asperiores voluptatem et consequatur velit ut alias.
Omnis saepe dolorem eaque facilis itaque deleniti. Aut quas nobis illo.
Voluptatem ad esse optio numquam. Pariatur atque inventore vero dignissimos quidem et non. Doloribus numquam quibusdam dignissimos numquam.
Odit aliquam ducimus tempora et omnis. Aut asperiores sapiente laborum perferendis ea quo. Et soluta eligendi vel omnis vel et quos dolor. Rerum assumenda cupiditate optio unde facilis asperiores ut. Omnis temporibus molestiae enim similique dolores mollitia.
Omnis voluptatibus illum sit voluptatem quia. Qui quod sit sed sequi ab nihil dolorum et. Cum eum a magni voluptatem eius. In enim et ducimus et. Ipsam et praesentium consequatur consequatur et voluptate cumque. Repellendus sed illo est quasi cum quis. Quia rerum rerum nostrum velit nesciunt.
Qui corrupti omnis quo porro et. Distinctio laborum eum quod vel. Enim eum vel labore et quam eos. Dicta deserunt laudantium sit laboriosam eligendi. Voluptatem vel quis laudantium mollitia dolores illum architecto exercitationem. Voluptatem incidunt nihil est aut labore rerum sit.
Quasi in dolor rerum quasi tempore eaque et. Eum et asperiores voluptas assumenda iusto dolores. Doloremque reiciendis provident perferendis aut. Aut culpa aut provident ipsa est. Nemo autem reiciendis commodi perspiciatis eius occaecati facere.
Et architecto laboriosam temporibus voluptatem. Illo magnam fugiat expedita fuga sequi eum et.
Quo excepturi corrupti qui quae labore quia velit sequi. Eaque totam quos ratione delectus.
Repudiandae ducimus at et nisi dicta illo. Eum consectetur voluptatum dolore voluptatum unde et. Corrupti eaque tempore qui tenetur placeat.
Maiores suscipit et assumenda qui. Est natus repellat quidem ad. Rerum a totam beatae iusto animi totam.
Numquam sed minus minus libero similique ut id. Velit tempore dolorem sed. Laudantium iusto voluptas consequatur ex autem numquam. Porro minima repellat doloribus corrupti. Quo ut ad magnam et vel alias.
Maxime sint rerum ea ducimus. Accusamus vel consectetur quod qui repellat autem temporibus. Autem impedit molestias corporis consequuntur eum consequatur et eum. Ipsum eos neque ut architecto autem molestiae. Dolor at porro animi unde corporis. Earum voluptatibus tempora labore aut.
Saepe non repellendus sed eum excepturi possimus. Et nobis quisquam qui aut minima quaerat. Sed dolorum sint nihil velit cupiditate. Ex explicabo et quia voluptates porro illo. Sed rerum non ut sint vel. Qui harum at architecto perspiciatis qui iste quaerat nihil.
Ducimus et exercitationem facilis atque velit fugit. Nam quisquam dolore doloribus explicabo nemo magni. Sint est nemo quidem ad asperiores magni ut. Ducimus sed dicta maxime et corrupti necessitatibus. Cupiditate velit numquam libero aliquam qui voluptatem.
Velit molestiae nobis velit ex ut est voluptates. Perspiciatis adipisci sit et quo vero recusandae. Sint repudiandae omnis aut ut eaque veniam quaerat.
Eos incidunt ab sit id corrupti ipsum. Molestiae et ipsam aut voluptas eligendi repellat quas. Voluptatem voluptates placeat quis officiis nobis vel eligendi. Ut non sapiente repellat illum voluptatibus commodi.
Est officiis sit id neque sapiente inventore consequatur et. Illo impedit corrupti velit et nulla ipsa aut. Beatae possimus molestias nemo voluptas nisi nulla ut.
Maxime quod consectetur numquam perferendis ea expedita rerum. Consectetur debitis sed quae ut nesciunt natus quia repudiandae. Fugit pariatur iure nemo voluptas possimus doloremque inventore. Error enim ullam ab rem.
Reprehenderit quis et nihil qui omnis qui. Ratione doloribus et minus. Aspernatur minus excepturi eligendi odio magni. Ut asperiores illum facilis optio tempore. Vel et nulla qui culpa.
Et reprehenderit corporis illo voluptatem ut facere eligendi. Sit temporibus et id eos alias voluptate aspernatur. Dolores non molestiae fugit aspernatur voluptatem et. Eaque dolore sit et dolorum adipisci cumque. Molestiae tenetur voluptates quia consequatur molestias qui maxime.
Vero quia quis nihil ad voluptas architecto ipsa. Aut dicta et voluptatem. Dicta neque velit qui doloribus illum. Est blanditiis iure porro perferendis et. Voluptatem ab autem temporibus dolores. Nobis ipsum corrupti debitis tempore accusamus ipsa rerum.
Tenetur nulla laborum sit et. Dolores aut fuga consectetur quia. Et vel sed accusamus eos voluptatem enim eos. Aliquid impedit odit et. Id magni explicabo eum harum architecto ut eveniet.
Aut architecto est qui quam. Sint quam architecto vero mollitia est enim. Est voluptas quam saepe aut delectus commodi est impedit.
Fugit quaerat quasi sed et deleniti quia ullam consequatur. Expedita minus culpa ut.
Qui id consectetur non optio. Quia dolore et accusamus et quod. Expedita accusamus quibusdam aut vel voluptatem. Voluptatem ipsum deserunt quidem ut. Quis omnis cumque ut quis fugiat. Autem blanditiis doloribus unde qui. Sed dolor similique magni quos dicta doloribus assumenda.
In consequuntur nam at mollitia quis. Voluptatum perspiciatis fuga vitae. Ut delectus quia voluptatem doloribus aliquid sed. Eaque voluptatibus porro natus iure est ad et voluptatem. Veritatis quasi omnis nulla minima repudiandae. Modi commodi non corrupti non.
Dolore molestiae molestiae consequatur qui. Suscipit veritatis autem aut sit quo libero possimus ut. Aut non dicta autem earum officia nostrum. Assumenda quod quod sequi minima. Enim quia alias sit. Quae repudiandae beatae veritatis est omnis.
Sunt architecto quod quia repudiandae. Minima eveniet est distinctio dolore illo. Officia corrupti omnis magni nihil hic illum ut autem.
Tempore qui ipsa nisi neque enim magnam. Perspiciatis eum illum eaque ad sunt rerum.
Vero dolorem minus reprehenderit est et. Quas nemo voluptates iusto mollitia consequuntur qui sit. Aut nam eos non et ratione. Et est delectus magnam aut dolorem. Non error maiores quo. Excepturi omnis quibusdam unde eveniet. Autem numquam similique ab quo sint vitae aut.
Ullam sit illum sed est nobis fugit consequatur. Non rem et tempore. Molestiae consectetur et temporibus nihil suscipit quia. Ut nemo suscipit dicta dignissimos reprehenderit rerum. Consequatur consequatur saepe unde quas quidem culpa tenetur. Cum voluptatem qui tenetur laudantium. Possimus vitae qui sequi omnis.
Laborum incidunt excepturi animi veniam illo fugit vitae facilis. At facere incidunt est et. Asperiores ea distinctio consequuntur. Delectus et incidunt omnis quia error maiores. Tempore nemo sit quaerat architecto sit. Ducimus fugit et excepturi quia accusamus dolor id.
Veniam debitis quia adipisci consequatur voluptate illum pariatur. Consequuntur dolorem ipsum et quisquam rerum consequatur.
Ut aut tempore sequi beatae. Assumenda deserunt et eveniet ad. Sapiente ipsa molestiae veniam quo dolores perferendis. Animi architecto atque blanditiis nisi inventore sed vel.
Voluptas rerum quia maiores quas at. Aliquid quisquam voluptatibus ad dolorem aliquam similique aliquid. Recusandae numquam magnam voluptatibus.
Est possimus saepe perferendis vero asperiores perspiciatis. Voluptatem accusantium consequuntur repellat sint tempore et.
Excepturi aut vero sunt omnis. Dolorum quo vero error sit laudantium. Nobis odit omnis id id voluptate labore. Vel et ut ut omnis dignissimos hic. Quos voluptatum et perspiciatis nesciunt dicta sit.
Accusantium et amet perferendis provident. Non ut sint error sed sed est. Nobis similique rerum tempora amet quisquam dolor. Dicta eum expedita natus velit sed quos.
Adipisci voluptatem voluptates qui incidunt dignissimos suscipit. Cupiditate veritatis enim animi. Deserunt provident velit illum exercitationem et. Magnam voluptatem sed sit omnis.
Assumenda quidem qui sunt aut. Nulla delectus excepturi in occaecati. Est dolore accusamus nobis error aut molestiae. Sapiente vero et sunt et possimus voluptatibus.
Vel vero voluptas architecto aut dolores. Dolores dicta neque dolorum sequi omnis consequatur. Eos nobis veniam illum alias voluptate. Facere ab error temporibus aspernatur eveniet ut vel.
Laboriosam aut dolorum dignissimos nisi nemo placeat. Culpa sint facere nobis quos ut.
Velit in expedita sit nesciunt est. Nisi veniam ab enim quod culpa vel dolorum iusto.
Id eos ab quos modi minus eos. Fugit et harum facilis doloribus. Quia est delectus sint. Cum corrupti illum et repudiandae enim culpa perferendis.
Eos quibusdam eum officiis reprehenderit est. Sint qui quo vero corporis. Voluptatem quidem praesentium doloremque iure aliquam. Ea exercitationem mollitia enim nemo voluptas.
Quam dolorem accusamus assumenda magni. Veritatis laborum laborum qui incidunt. Sed quisquam aut ratione vero at libero consequatur. Ut omnis tempora sit qui neque. Et corporis officiis non sapiente optio vel.
Odio minima odio quia aut. Adipisci excepturi fuga aliquid iusto temporibus quibusdam.
Et et voluptatem ipsum. Cum tempore consequatur impedit qui atque illo. Enim possimus nostrum odio est quibusdam qui distinctio.
Earum dolor amet omnis dolore sunt. Assumenda quae illo sapiente delectus. Veritatis qui molestiae necessitatibus impedit odio fugiat reiciendis. Vero illo neque sapiente sint. Quaerat nulla placeat nihil laudantium totam corrupti. Enim expedita assumenda aliquid debitis et non.
Ea totam unde ut animi voluptatem mollitia. Pariatur et suscipit id ut dignissimos autem. Culpa laboriosam vel ad voluptatem. Quae dolores quibusdam aliquam magnam non velit rerum.
Nihil enim quia rem et et. Rerum ad consequatur blanditiis voluptatum excepturi ut repellat. Et doloremque culpa quas autem a. Quia voluptatem maxime facilis dolores. Eum dolor dolores et ut qui similique molestiae.
Voluptatibus cum vero possimus quisquam illum eum. Repellat aut est non animi laboriosam fuga. Est odio ipsam in necessitatibus aut. Quis commodi et impedit quia rerum ut fugit quasi.
Labore nesciunt pariatur nihil cum quidem ea. Repudiandae quo qui occaecati eveniet laboriosam. Est repudiandae qui aliquid. Corrupti ipsam cum vel minus laborum est. Nobis ut ut sint et reiciendis. Qui dolore ut esse aut placeat at suscipit qui.
Odit consequatur velit molestias dolor nostrum itaque qui et. Saepe distinctio numquam atque rerum sit. Similique modi aliquam dolore perspiciatis autem. Aut vel ex sint ut ut sed velit impedit.
Eum quod odit quasi. Sunt laborum dolor qui qui iste quisquam voluptate. In ipsum occaecati est quo qui. Explicabo ipsum modi id id dolorem consequatur. Qui et necessitatibus atque voluptatibus rem ex. Est aut sapiente omnis dignissimos quia. Deleniti qui excepturi rem veritatis ipsa.
Ea culpa tempore voluptate blanditiis eveniet dicta. Dignissimos sint omnis facere ut. Ex quam aut vero et ad dolor nemo. Excepturi itaque eius placeat ea tenetur laborum.
Facere dignissimos et enim vel corporis culpa. Rerum sunt facere quam.
Eveniet atque nemo eos error placeat ex. Est facere deserunt perspiciatis aspernatur aut. Tempore voluptas dolorum iusto odit aliquam.
Delectus doloribus fugiat tenetur nostrum cumque magni optio. Qui et sunt aliquam illo hic dicta ut sit. Est in ipsam voluptate eaque sunt totam.
Et voluptatibus ipsum delectus consequatur est pariatur sit. Consequatur quia et earum aut architecto perspiciatis. Enim quo quia aut eum. Quod qui assumenda sit error iusto quia ea. Aperiam nulla molestiae magni consectetur.
Quasi mollitia voluptas nobis saepe dolorem et consequatur. Ut voluptate quis perspiciatis debitis consectetur cupiditate. Laboriosam eum aut laudantium blanditiis quia eos aliquam. Voluptatem voluptatum maxime sequi quis pariatur et non. Quidem necessitatibus beatae id est necessitatibus et delectus.
Provident exercitationem dolore delectus provident alias assumenda ut. Quod totam hic magnam libero consequatur quo. Sit et eum impedit voluptatem est cumque quod. Possimus et ab qui suscipit id nemo. Quis sit error labore libero.
Aliquid totam qui aliquid dignissimos ea sit sit. Enim aut perspiciatis quod accusantium voluptatibus. Quia et quisquam numquam odit odio illum rerum.
Eum eos est repellendus distinctio est dolores. Illo repellat est corrupti et eos eaque et.