Mod Note (Andy): Best of Eddie, this was originally posted on 02/18/2013.
First, a word of warning. The article I'm referring to in this thread was posted on BroBible, so you probably don't want to click the link at work unless you want all kinds of alarm bells to go off in your IT department. It's safe for work, but I've been told that some banks have BroBible on their blacklist so it probably isn't worth the risk.
Now, we've had some lively discussions here on the site about drinking etiquette, and even livelier discussions about tipping etiquette. So I knew you guys would be interested to read this piece written by a female New York City bartender entitled, "Confessions of a Bartender: 10 Things Every Bartender Absolutely Hates About You".
Based on the title you'd think that it would be pretty general stuff and not directed toward any one demographic in particular, but you'd be wrong. It seems the author, one Stefanie Williams of the Upper East Side, really has it in for bankers. Like, really has it in for bankers. Her favorite story, in fact, is the one about how she basically got three bank interns fired for leaving her a shitty tip (and being assholes about it).
J loved me. So when three little snobby intern brats who made it clear that they worked with him, decided to tip me three dollars on a hundred and ten dollar check, then call me a bitch as they walked out because hey, they work at a bank, and they are just too fucking cool to be nice to lowly bartenders, they had no idea that I would go to my dear friend J.
And here’s the thing – J is in his late 40’s. He’s with it, he likes having the in at my bar. Wanna know what J doesn’t like? People associating him with 21 year old twits who tip shitty and call me a bitch on his company's reputation. Later, J called the three little interns and told them to come back. He told each of them to tip me 30 dollars and apologize.
As they left, I told them the most important lesson they might ever learn. I am more important to J than they are. They are one in a million on Monster.com. There are a million other Georgetown, Duke, Brown, Yale, Cornell, and UNC kids that could replace them in a second. Their daily routine of getting yelled at and going to pick up lunch for their boss can be performed by any idiot willing to sell his soul for a bullet point on his resume.
As for me? It took J a year for me to warm up to him. To get the buybacks, to get the reserved tables, to get the “J’s the greatest” in front of the big buyers. I am the reason J comes to this bar. You? You’re about to get fired. Might want to work on that better than thou attitude before you graduate.
She made some really good points (in my opinion) about tipping and she pointed out how ironic it is that random Morgan Stanley/Barclays/UBS/BofA bankers will stand around the bar all night measuring their dicks comp-wise and then sprout alligator arms when the check drops. She goes so far as to suggest that bankers who can't figure out a 20% tip might be the reason we've been in a recession for four years.
If you can’t figure out 20% of 173, you probably shouldn’t be handling millions of dollars a day for other people. Or if you’re just too cheap to leave an adequate tip, maybe you should just stay home. Do you work for free? No? Okay cool because neither do I.
It really is a pretty funny article and as a former bar owner (and therefore de facto bartender) I can tell you that she's spot on when it comes to many of these complaints.
What I found the funniest, though, was how she singled out bankers for the majority of her ire. Now, maybe that's because she works in a banker bar and bankers make up the majority of her clientele, I don't know. But if not, she's managed to sprout a pretty hefty banker chip on her shoulder, so you guys better hope you never darken her door (or at least act like an entitled ass if you do).
I'm anxious to get your reaction to this. Is she right about bankers? Or are bankers always just catching her on a bad day?
.
LOL where did this post go? You and your buddies are DEFINITELY the only dudes she flirts with!
Hilarious.
Like you would even know who I'm speaking about.
She has a lot of hate for behavior that I rarely see. So unless she's a little delicate or just loves a good rant, I don't see this as pandemic; or maybe it's the company I keep and the places I go.
Liked #10. We don't tip in London. It's rude and crass. Talking about money is rude and crass so lets avoid the situation all together.
It's because minimum wages across the pond are actual wages, not a crappy number you can't live off. Maybe it's because I have a European mentality, but that's always baffled me that bartenders expect their paycheck to come from customers rather than their boss. I don't know, when you're buying a car, are you leaving a 15% tip for the guys in the assembly line?
Not that I'm cheap (I always leave 17%, 2x NY taxes), but it's mind-blowing to me that people always take the same approach instead of reverting the situation.
I read the whole article and she sounds very arrogant in it. If she serves drinks with such an attitude, I wouldnt give her that much tip either. Maybe someone from New York can comment on that, but if the service isnt exceptional, I would definitely not tip her 20% or more...(I am European, so keep that in mind)
And, how many bar staff are "writers"? 80%? 75?
"Do not assume that because I am the one pouring your beer, that somehow I am less ambitious than you, or a “fuck up”, or a disappointment that wasn't as capable as you were to get a job in IB or marketing."
Right. Usually what comes to mind for me about bartenders is: this person has made a series of top quality decisions throughout life.
"marketing" haha
.
Uh-oh...
Great job to put yourself through undergrad, typically pulled in 400-500 a night and picked up your girlfriend on a regular basis, you cheap bastard.
I don't disagree with your statement about bartending to pay for college, you "bastard". However, the person in question graduated college five years ago. Do you think it's likely that person has made the best choices in life? My guess is that she wasn't as capable or ambitious (or both) and that's why she's still tending a bar.
Maybe being a 27 year old bartender is highly successful from your vantage point?
I agree with Alrik. Funny article, I don't think I can take her seriously though -- my guess is she had shitty ex-boyfriend in banking or something. I don't live in NY but the bankers I know don't act like this.
Fuck her and her holier than thou complex. She should go work in a European bar if she's not satisfied with the ONE-OFF (clearly not all people) small tips shes receives.
I get the point she's trying to make, I really do. I tend to tip on the generous side myself.
That being said, that ego of hers sounds just as bad as the bankers she hates. Yeah, those interns were jerks, but that's no reason to get them fired. I'm sure there are much craftier ways that a bartender can get back at them next time they come around.
Tipping here is like 10% on a dinner, nothing crazy..however i've tried to tip for pints when ive been hammered and the guy gave the money back to me.
the big problem is when i go to the states and get drunk, and tipping just isnt in my drunken motor skills anymore...not fun
I tip 20% no matter what only because multiplying by 2 is a hell of a lot easier than multiplying by 3, then dividing by 2. Someone's gotta stimulate the economy.
I'm with you on this one man. Also, I don't know, maybe it's rare to be raised like a decent human these days, but my parents would beat the shit out of me if I didn't treat everyone with respect, from a bum to CEO.
in brasil you get 10 percent auto added to your check and thats that
but yeah i used to always give 20 percent but realized i dont get any incentive out of that so they better hook it up
bands a make her dance
and FWIW, whenever anyone likes to band me into the 'investment bankers are assholes' group i like to point out that traders seem to be less asshole-like when it comes to people skills
Yes yes, we all know that you live in Brazil. Now, can you, please, go back to using the Z instead of the S?
haha. and while we're in america, let's pronounce mexico with an 'x'. none of this 'meheeco' crap. fuckin multiculturalism
You work as a $3 an hour food and beverage service worker...get the fuck over yourself. And are you serious:
"Just because I don’t sit at a desk all day and crunch numbers does not mean I am not changing the world in my own way."
You forgot the "I am the reason so-and-so comes to this bar."
Trickle down economics baby. If we ain't getting paid, neither are you.
like others have said, she seems like she's got about as much of an attitude problem as some of the douchey bankers she serves drinks to. that being said, and i'm assuming this is true in every major US city, but especially in nyc, even if the service wasn't fantastic, you still tip 18-20%. And 18% is if the server was kinda bitchy. So I definitely can see why she's outraged when a bunch of interns roll up and act like they're BSDs then tip like assholes.
She is the author of 'Chasing the Jersey', which documents her sleeping with college athletes while a student-manager at University of Maryland. Credibility stripped.
That said, you bankers are pretty fucking cheap in general.
2nd the others above. I've worked at a BUNCH of places (restaurants, etc.) for tips, so I know what it's like, but she sounds like a moron.
Young people in their early twenties sometimes tend to lose sight of who they are and behave badly (speaking from my own experience). I think its nice to be a little forgiving of them because they haven't really seen the world yet. Yes, the interns should not have insulted her and probably should've tipped more than $3, but come on, they're interns...they still have a lot to learn. Regarding her perception of bankers being stingy: it's probably because money is very important to them. Some people might have grown up very poor and wanted to be bankers so that they can be wealthy one day. She essentially ruined/messed up three kids' career paths for what, 30-ish dollars worth of tips?
She would really hate me -- an IB intern with a Southern accent from no-nameville TN.
20% on a bar tap??!!? You gotta be out of your mind! All she do is pour a standard drink and she bitches about people asking her to make them a "fun" drink. The times when a bartender deserves a big tip are when he/she decides to be creative to make something off the menu or when they actually give a good recommendation based on what I like.
this chick is more entitled than those bankers/interns she was bitching about.
This girl is ridiculous and has a worse ego and sense of entitlement that any banker that comes into her bar. Let's break it down:
"I am a bartender, not an escort." Ok, fair enough. Everyone's a classy girl until proven otherwise. What's that? - "It was Halloween. I was dressed like a Victoria Secret Angel. I was 22." You also wrote a book about how much you sleep around with althetes. I wonder why everyone grabs your ass.
"I know without a doubt, I never give service that is worth less than 20%." For one, this is patently false. I'm sure that over four years as a bartender you've never gotten an order wrong, took a smoke break and left someone hanging, or just generally acted like a bitch because you we're having a bad night. No biggie, it happens to everyone. But "I have never given service worth less than 20%" is a bit on the high horse eh?
"I am not stupid." Ok Einstein, let's go to the tape: "I was an English major that was terrible at math.", "I went to a good school - Go Terps" Really? Was it hard to do well enough in English at a state school to land a "9-5 desk job with a boss I hated"? Sounds like summa cum laude to me.
One more thing - you claim to give such excellent service and to "never" deserve anything less than 20%. Yet you work in the hospitality business and complain "don't ask me to smile" and genuinely believe "I don't get paid to flirt with you." Are you fucking kidding me? The bartender who never smiles and never even bats an eye at her customers gets less than 20% occasionally? Stop the fucking presses!
Also, self-publishing an ebook to the Kindle Store and writing for BroBible doesn't count as being "published", no matter how many times you tell that to your bartender friends.
That was beautiful.
This is so douchy. Probably the same thing that those three little fucks were thinking when they decided to leave her 3 bucks.
Someone should reply to her article and let her know that no one gives a fuck what a servers opinion is. I am not tipping and paying them because I give a shit. Smile, pour the drinks and under report your income to the IRS like a good little girl.
Wow, a job where people get more and more drunk and she encounters asshole behavior. Who would have thought it.
Although by the same token, I'd expect an environment where people get drunker and drunker to also yield higher tips. I don't know if I feel more generous when I'm drunk, or just less mathematically inclined, but my tips get larger.
She talks about how expensive NYC and then mentions paying $1250 for rent... LOL. That's so Queens.
Why does every server/bartender have to complain all the fucking time about the same stuff like it's not a part of the job?(I've worked at restaurants/food places, I'm just sick of it) I have a feeling those guys that tipped her $3 and called her a bitch didn't do it just for kicks after reading this article... whine when someone wants you to make them a "fun" drink... oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were a bartender... oh, you are? so do your fucking job.
She reminds me of those mechanics or guys at the gun stores that will act condescending to you if you don't know everything about what they're selling
Absolutely ridiculous how she spends the entire article coyly trying to prove that she IS intelligent, hasn't fucked up in her life even though she's a bartender at 26, and that people shouldn't shallowly judge others based upon face value looks, while she then proceeds to write a paragraph about how she will judge you if you order something the wrong way. That alone provides significant reasoning as to why she's a bartender even with her "decent" college degree.
racist.
If you don't want to make $2.13/hr, quit and get another job. No one told you to do this for a living.
I know and have encountered too many bartenders who think they are hot shit. You're a server, get over yourself.
Maybe if she stopped being a bitch, people would stop calling her a bitch.
I agree that her attitude in the article is pretty aggressive, and if she acts that way on the job, I wouldn't be surprised that she gets under-tipped every now and then. Obviously, those intern kids were being dicks, and a 3% tip on a ~$100 bill is a joke. They should be be called out for that, but at the end of the day, tipping is meant to provide incentive for prompt service, hence the acronym.
All that being said, it is AMAZING, how relatively effortless it is to have a bit of EQ and good old fashioned opportunism as a bar patron to get a solid set up at a bar. This "J" guy must be a pretty shitty relationship manager if it took him a YEAR to get into her good graces... or maybe she really just is that big of a bitch.
All you need to do is recognize when someone does under tip a bartender, or give them attitude and acknowledge to the bartender that the previous person was a total dick and that you really appreciate her being so prompt and on the ball with getting you your order.
I'm pretty sure there was an article on this site a year or two ago by Uncle Eddie, talking about how to get drinks quickly at a bar. Well, I can think of probably 5-6 bars that I frequent, where I have a flat drinking arrangement with the bartenders, buybacks are standard, and I probably pay 50-60% of what a normal person would for their bar tab, just because I take care of my bartenders there.
At the end of the day, what this article is about is RESPECT. Obviously, her attitude is shitty and she's clearly bitter (probably because even though she says that "she could have taken that 9-5 job" she didn't, and even though she "knows" that she is smart and ambitious, deep down she wants others to validate her own belief that she is). This is something you can ascertain in about 5 minutes of watching her do her thing at the bar. You build a relationship when the bar is slow, not when it is packed. If you go and catch her at the beginning of her shift and get to know her a little bit, then tip her REALLY WELL, on a small bill, the cost to you in absolute terms is pretty small, but to her, the perception is "Wow, this guy tips well even on small bills, he'll probably tip well on all bills." Also, she now remembers your face and remembers that you were nice to her. In a crowded bar, when she sees you, she's going to come to you before 5 other guys because she knows that she is likely to get a better return on her service from you than from the guys that would shaft her on the tip whether she brought the drinks quickly or not.
You invest in a couple bartenders at a few different spots and you can easily save 20-30% on your alcohol consumption. Just always keep in mind that as long as you are taking care of your bartenders, they will take care of you... they don't care if they are shafting the bar a little here and there because you are constantly bringing in repeat business and referrals...
I'll start by saying that people who harass and behave like assholes to waiters/waitresses should be killed. That said, she has to earn the tip the same way I have to earn my bonus. If you are not willing to recommend drinks or make certain cocktails, or even smile I'm not going to tip you 20%. Period. I'd rather go to the bar with the nice waiter/waitress where they call me by my name, smile at me and are always helpful and give them 20% or 25%. It's not about the money, it's about not paying for a service I don't get. Oh, and if it takes a year for her to be nice to regulars I would go to the bar next door immediately. Who the fuck does she think she is? It's not like I can't get a beer and a scotch on the rocks in a billion places. The waiters in the bar I go to next to my house knew me after 1 week, and invited me to a drink 2 weeks after I moved in. And trust me, it was worth it for them. Does she think bankers don't have to smile to their clients even in their worse day? Or put up with all kinds of crap from them? Or I don't have to let certain clients fuck me every now and then? And if I don't do it I get fired, so why can she be rude, not smile and not do her fucking job which is giving me the drink I want at whatever time I want? Don't go into the service business. Oh, and if you are 27, a bartender and a writer only published in BroBible, I'm sorry but you are not very successful and probably not very smart.
I think y'all are missing the point. The moral of the story is don't be assholes to people you consider little and insignificant because by some odd twist of fate you will find yourselves at their mercy one day and it won't be pretty.
I know this rich girl who is the worst tipper. For some reason she assumes that spending $500 on shoes is nothing but tipping a waitress $5 on a $30 bill is a theft. I just hope that the wait stuff doesn't forget to spit in her food next time.
I can't stand people who act like they have a stick up their ass when it comes to alcohol like it's some kind of measuring stick of sophistication or coolness or whatever it may be. Bartenders have this in spades when they resent the people they serve, and in some cases it's understandably so but in others it really pisses me off. No I don't know what very dry means but if the dumbass bitch I'm with wants a martini then hold her hand through it and deal with her stupidity as best you can. Don't act like an arrogant prick, help me enjoy my night out rather than hurrying me to figure out what I want to drink or how I want it because you don't have what I asked for the first time. By all means, teach me what I don't know when I sound like an idiot, but do it with a good attitude rather than with a big scowl on your face, I bet most people will tip you even harder for the education.
And on the subject of tips, sure anything below 20% is ridiculous... as long as you're not a total bitch and got me my drink in a reasonable amount of time, but when you are I'll probably still tip you 20% though you definitely do not deserve it. Make me feel good, I'll make you feel good. That's how capitalism works, so please do your best to hold back yelling at me for being ignorant. We don't tell your broke ass to fuck off when you come into the bank and get a mortgage on your house because you don't understand what a lien is. We hold your hand through it. Extend the courtesy please.
How about the ass service across the pond. Being a server (aka servant) blows. Only thing keeping people smiling and waiting on the customer is that reward at the end.
Market forces set wages, not the government. When government sets wages it is simply a hidden tax.
Remember kids, companies don't pay taxes, they simply collect them for the government. Same thing with "minimum" wages. Prices go up to offset the increase salary cost, which is pass on to consumers. Just one of the countless ways the criminal enterprise called the USA steals from its citizens.
This article was written with about the same verisimilitude as a BroBible or TFM piece. A generous offering of hyperbole and acrimony to wash down the 10% of reality.
For sanity's sake, I think we need to pump the breaks here. As she said, she's an aspiring "writer." There's a more-than-likely chance most items on her list don't happen all that often, and, according to a monte carlo I just ran, 95% chance "J" and "J's analysts" don't exist--and if they do, "Stefanie" was undoubtedly being a c-word and deserved it. Shock value is a budding blogger's best friend. Eddie realizes this, but it raises an interesting questions about the finance industry's tipping habits nonetheless. Let's untangle our panties for just a second here and indignantly acknowledge that a service industry worker with a gentle grasp on the english language just punkd us.
Don't get me wrong--you will never find me tipping anyone, from cab driver to bartender, less than 20%, barring abysmal service. Pour em at home if you can't afford a $20 tip, peasant. Implicative clause in Locke's social contract.
One time a waitress charged my brother for something he didn't order, he politely told her, she came back with that charge off but another charge added for fucking ketchup, ranch dressing, and some other petty crap like that... was it wrong that I took his tip money off the table, gave it back to him, and insisted on not giving her jack shit (he was, for some reason, going to give her a couple bucks even though her service was absolutely horrible and she pulled that)? I usually tip well over 20% for average service and have never just stiffed a server before, but come on. If you're gonna do something like that, you're not getting a tip.
Are things so bad that people groan about a few bucks? Hey, someone fucks up and is a dick about it, they should know they're not getting tipped. But I do remember a day when it was a pissing contest to see who could run up the tab higher, as well as the tip. Now every hack writer from Williamsburg thinks that ragging on the financial sector is the ticket to a book deal, and the charge is being led by people that worked at banks to the point that people who's always liked us are trying to turn a buck scandalizing the industry based on a few 22 year old morons.
Seriously man, NYC needs something to get going again, WTF
So she is ranting about people who feel entitled - yet she is entitled to at least 20% gratuity because she works in Manhatttan. Me likely the irony - or hypocrisy.
I may just be a huge sucker or I took the book "48 Laws of Power" too seriously but I've always tried to turn enemies into friends. Whenever a bartender is downright rude or short I make sure my tip is completely over the top. I'm talking $40 on a $100 dollar tab. Usually it makes them feel so much like a prick for treating such a "generous" patron so poorly that next time they will get to know your name and be much more attentive to you in the future.
A friend of my brother's opened a relatively successful bar in manhattan and only cleared about $50K for the first three years, while working IB analyst hours. He's doing better now and opened a second bar about three years ago. Still, he's hardly rolling in coin and never made anywhere near what I've made. Admittedly, I don't have the perk of having a pack of goons ready to attack on my behalf, so there's that.
UFO -- Here's the one thing I think you're missing about why people find this lady irritating. She has this arrogant and condescending tone and then she says: "(she's not) a disappointment that wasn't as capable as you were to get a job in IB or marketing."
Maybe she's the 1/10,000 person for whom that statement is actually true. More likely, she couldn't hack it. Almost every person in IB could drop out and become a bartender if they chose to. Very few bartenders could easily switch into IB. The combination of being condescending and full of shit is why people are irritated, would be my guess.
I have a hard time believing - despite what even the former and current bartenders say anecdotally - that your average (or even great) bartender is pulling in multiples of the average analyst's all-in comp. And anyone who's spent time covering restaurants knows that even the most successful high-end mini-chains don't make a lot of money. I'm sure I'm wrong and that these bar owners are casually clearing mid-seven figures a year (all under the table of course, cuz like you all said the IRS has never went after a bar/restaurant before, but that's a conversation for another day) while we have to slave away and presumably hate our jobs for that comp. Life definitely sucks over here, I should go become a bartender. This flight home from my vacation home has filled me with shame and inadequacy.
Women almost always make more per hour and gett better jobs more easily, but some guys know how to build a good crowd and do ok. I worked best with women: YOU go talk to people, I do the actual work and pour drinks and such, and between the two/three of us we make a killing. I don't know about gay bars, bars in strip clubs, or 'private' bars, just not my thing. I also don't know about drug dealing off the end of the bar, I made it a point to turn a blind eye to that stuff from day one.
Bar/restaurant owner is variable. They can go bankrupt, or they can open multiple locations and do extremely well. The best, believe it or not, aren't the high end places: it's the midrange places that compete with Fridays for a crowd. IMO, the absolute best are Mex/Tex in terms of margins, because the food ingredients are so cheap and you only have to beat your competition by a few bucks to draw a large crowd. Also factor in the places that some finance guys open and run at a loss for tax reasons. If you're not paying huge royalties to the chain management, that money goes in your pocket. Again though, these guys run their own world, so having that freedom once the business is established is amazing. Major downside is the hours, dealing with drunk assholes and riffraff that make bars their base, they're a huge pain in the cajones....that and employees who steal or give away too much, but they usually don't last long.
TLDR version of all my posts is: this chick's attitude is not representative of everyone in industry. LOL I'd hate to see someone go out and be nasty to a bartender as a reaction to this person's article.
What typpe of douche bag disrespects bar maids. If you have a kick ass job access to heniken all the time and prostitues all thats missing is a legit vicdin doctor and you got it made in the shade . Instead of bitching at bar maids for all the jocks she used to screw in front of guys like you count your money and know the reality beign poor and lowly has its own punishment like the never knowing month to month about bills. Enjoy the prostitues beer and lavish life. Its something to have so much money you can eve embrace the idea that you have a higher status in life because you were kissing butt and writing love poems and love playlist for so long your grown rich and now enjoi
You guys have to check out this chick's latest screed. Holy shit is this broad bitter:
http://www.brobible.com/entertainment/article/most-unlikable-female-cel…
[quote=Edmundo Braverman]You guys have to check out this chick's latest screed. Holy shit is this broad bitter:
http://www.brobible.com/entertainment/article/most-unlikable-female-cel…] Ha ha, great find. Now, I think I've found some common ground with her:
"One thing I think we all can agree on – no one wants to see Lena Dunham naked. Everyone is tired of seeing Lena Dunham naked."
I can't even watch that show anymore.
"This whole “oh I’m so edgy and full of tattoos and against the grain of standard because I’m kind of chubby” isn’t some new line form of feminism. It’s fucking annoying."
read 2 paragraphs... done. if I wanted to hear a girl talk shit about other girls to feel better about herself, I'd walk outside
I hate her.
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