Mod Note (Andy): Best of Eddie, this was originally posted in January 2011.
When women get together with their friends and talk about the new guy in their life, one of the first questions that always comes up is, "What does he do?", which - let's face it - is code for, "How much does he make?". Your salary matters to women. Going all the way back to caveman days, women have always sought mates who could protect and provide. It's no different today.
But in today's world of empowered females, why does your salary still matter so much? Professional women today earn as much and sometimes more than their male counterparts. Yet these women expect even more from their mates than women who don't make as much. What gives?
A survey by Match.com
Match.com has an interview that may shed some light on the subject. They interviewed five professionals (three women and two guys) all aged 25-30. Not surprisingly, the women had the most to say on the subject. Regardless of how much money they personally made, they still want a man who can take care of them and pick up the tab. And they don't just want it, they expect it:
Haley: My current boyfriend pays for everything and I think I make more than he does, but I like it that way because it feels romantic, caring and chivalrous. Dating a man without money is really tough because you end up paying for everything and that wears on you after awhile.
Yeah, us guys know how you feel, honey.
Let's talk
So this made me curious. Does a woman's interest in your salary turn you off, or have you just come to expect it? I'm not talking about obvious gold-diggers here, I'm talking about regular women you might be romantically interested in. Do you prefer a woman to be coy about it, or would you rather she just ask you the straight-up numbers?
Let's face it: being the one with money in a relationship is empowering (though we all know that men don't ultimately have the real power in a relationship). Having money eliminates a certain amount (but not all) of relationship B.S. If nothing else, it gives you the power to say no to attending her idiot sorority sister's wedding in Hoboken. But what do you trade for that power?
I'll admit, I've been out of the dating scene for almost a decade now. And I married a woman who was at least my equal and really had her shit together, so finances have never been an issue. Plus, she's a Southern girl, so even if my money was ever a concern of hers she'd been raised with the gentility to never let me know it.
I'm interested to hear from you guys. Does it bother you that a woman expects to be taken care of? Or is that just the traditional male role? I'd love to hear from the female monkeys, too. Do you ladies in the business ever date "down"? What's it like to make more money than your boyfriend? And any male monkey's who date "up", what's it like to make less than your girlfriend? Is money still that big a dynamic in relationships?
I'll leave you with Beyoncé's take on the subject:
howd u come across a match.com interview?
good call.....
First, let me say I'm broke and have been for life. (I've been a starving student for the past several years, after going straight to grad school after undergrad.) So, nobody has ever dated me for my income. But, once I accumulate some wealth, I know how I'll feel. It's okay with me if she cares about my income; just so long as she's also ambitious career wise, and brings something other than her looks to the table. I can't stand chicks who want to live well, but aren't willing to work for it. I saw a few episodes of that reality TV show "Real Housewives of [input big city here]" and a lot of those chicks annoyed the sh*t out of me. I had great respect for the women on that show, who had something of their own and made their own money. But, I completely despised the others; chicks whose sole purpose in life seems to be going shopping, eating out, spending the day at the spa, etc. To me, their whole existence is shallow. They only care about superficial things, and they aren't even willing to work for them. It'd be one thing if they spent their time reading, learning, painting, volunteering, or something along those lines. But they don't. All they do is mindless, vapid activities all day long. I have much more respect for materialistic people who actually work for their wealth, or broke people who actually have passion in their job/studies. But what I can't stand, is people with zero work ethic (or maybe it's just zero productivity) who want to live "the good life."
Just to be clear, I'm not saying people shouldn't spend time on mindless, vapid activities (lord knows, I like to). It's just pathetic when that's your entire existence. What a meaningless life. Have these people ever heard of self-actualization?
As an aside, it would also annoy me if my chick made decent money, but she never wanted to contribute financially. The type of chick who thinks my money is our money, and her money is her money. You know, the type of girl who wants me to pay all the bills and wants me to pay whenever we go out. What, she gets to spend all her money on clothes and having fun with her girlfriends, but I'm supposed to spend a bunch of money on her? Pfff!
In my past 2 relationships, both chicks have made more than me. And even though they didn't make that much, they still were very generous with paying for just about everything. This definitely has its pros and cons. It's nice to meet a girl who's not that obsessed with material things, and seems to really like me for me. On the flip side though, I don't like being broke and wish I had more money (just for the independence, empowerment, opportunities, security, and some modest material possessions).
What I make is important to me for more than financial reasons. I'm really smart and get shit done, and fortunately companies realize that and pay me what I'm worth. To get here, I spent four years busting my balls in school (CS, not business) and learning about this stuff. I have friends who didn't, because they're either not technically inclined or chose not to be, and they make much less than me (with the exception of ibankers, but I'm not putting in anywhere close to even 80 hours, and our total comp is pretty close). I'm proud of what I've accomplished, my paycheck reflects that, and I'm not going to apologize. It's a self-esteem thing. Any (most) girls are looking for a man they can marry, settle down, and have kids with. Having a kid requires the ability to support the kid and the wife (ideally enough so she doesn't have to work and can take care of the kid(s)). She'll be looking for someone with his shit together in order to do this, and a paycheck is indicative of shit-together-ness. I also look for a girl who has her shit together. When my parents ask "oh, so what does she do?" "yes mom, she did graduate from college. No, mom, she's a waitress because she was a sociology major and is too lazy/dumb and partied too much to go to grad school and do anything with it" (never again) who you date and what they do reflects upon you, though paycheck doesn't as long as they're doing something with their lives besides sitting around waiting for Mr. Right.
I genuinely believe that its an American trait. Coming from Ireland, after the first date and the occasional treat here and there, bills, tabs, and rounds of drinks are 50/50 for guys and girls, and the girls wouldnt have it any other way.
Having spent much of my youth in the States, whenever I go home to Europe i find it almost shocking at first if a girl offers to buy me a drink or something.
After dating a few American girls that definitely came from more money than I, and always have money on them, it always ground my gears to always foot the ball for everything.
Bring on the beer fetching, belching, farting irish women! jk jk
In b4 sexism.
On the real, if a girl asked me what I did, I would straight up tell her I was back office or something. If she still likes me after that, then she's a keeper.
I wouldn't mind dating or marrying a girl that likes money but I don't want that to be the only trait that attracts her.
I went to a casino once and saw a guy just sitting back in a chair at a bar drinking while his wife (or what I assumed was his wife) went up to him every 15-20 minutes asking for more money and he just handed her a handful of cash and just turned around to watch t.v. until she was done playing. That's not what I envision as a healthy relationship. However, if he's a baller and makes so much that it's nothing and that was a mistress, I say more power to him.
My blueprint has been preppy outfit + good face and bod + banking's reputation= very interested sluts. Really this formula works like gold on women of all races.
To be fair, I think the truth is that there are certain prerequisites women look for before they open up/ try to nest. Financial independence and security is a fickle beast. It is the most desired quality.
Obviously it can't always be about money and jobs because black guys get laid
I see what you did there.
x
Really jerk?
im one of the guys who dates "up". My long term girlfriend makes more than I do (far more) and sure the money issue has come up. Like most men, I wanted a woman who had passion for working and a desire to get it done. That was one of the things that drew me to her. It was very important to me that she didnt want to stay home all day and sit on her laurels. Also, she knew she'd make more than 95% of the guys she'd date. Shes an MD, not Managing Director but Medical Doctor. So ya, she makes alot more than me.
And i think TechnoViking may be on to something about the "american trait". Because my girl is Indian. The emotion of money is strong in her because without her drive to succeed (established at a very young age via her parents) would have meant "failure" in alot of peoples eyes. This being said, she spent most of her childhood growing up in California and has enough "Americanisms" where shes not hell-bent on making sure im making her kind of money. We're very open about bills and like Technoviking said, we pretty much split everything 50/50 after the first handful of dates that were on me.... and ALOT of it was brought on by her.
We have plans for paying off her mortgage sized school loans, my school loans and how long we'll be in "frugal" cars before we get the BMW 5 series we both love. Being super open about money and agreeing that splitting everything 50/50 is not only refreshing, but one of the things that keeps me loving her. She knows im struggling to find work, but im busting my ass trying to find gigs and have interviews set up. She knows I cannot handle being a "stay at home dad" so she knows im not riding her coat-tails.
Lastly, and maybe its just me... but in todays society, (especially in this culture of ours...) money is important. Being super open about our finances and having plans is key... however whats REALLY clutch is how we both have little funds of our own. She doesnt press me when Im buying some new ski gear and I applaud her when she's buying new shoes/boots/clothes. It gives a sense of freedom...
Most men? Shitting me? I can't be the only one with a healthy, natural penchant for feminine women with estrogen levels high enough to menstruate.
This. I know that I make more than most guys my age and as a result, I have a pretty skewed view of what I'm looking for in a guy (as far as his career / salary / ambition goes). I think that part of this has to do with the fact that I like nice things (which I can no doubt buy for myself) and like to be treated as a lady. To be honest, I don't want a guy who's going to think I'm high maintenance and guys in finance get that whole material-thing, as shallow as it is.
To be blunt, I definitely want a guy who is an equal, if not better. Hence, dating older guys is the way to go.
To contrast my view, one of my best friends is getting a PhD right now. She's much more comfortable dating an entry-level engineer, another grad student, etc. I remember discussing this very topic with her once and she was extremely surprised that I was so narrow-minded about it.
Though I'm currently in college, so salary doesn't really apply, I come from a wealthier (and less stingy) family than my boyfriend does. I would say he pays when we eat out slightly more than I, but mostly because we are both Southern and he feels wrong going on dates and not getting the check. If he couldn't pay, I wouldn't have a problem paying -- though paying every time would get annoying, just as I'm sure it would get annoying for him. I make sure to give him absolutely amazing gifts at holidays (or sometimes in between), because he's so chivalrous.
We're both hopefully going into IB, so I doubt initially there will be a huge power or salary inequality. If I make more in the future, I won't mind; the key is, though, that he works as hard as he can and reaches the potential I see in him. So it's less about his actual salary than succeeding in general. With that said, if he decided to become an artist and pulled in less than $30k per year, there would definitely be problems.
Overall, my view is that we have entered a contract for a relationship/future marriage. We should maintain our looks, reach the potential we showed to each other, and strive to make each other (and ourselves, obviously) as comfortable as possible in life. I'm going to be a successful woman for myself and for my future husband, and in turn, I think he should be at least around that level if the relationship is to be equal. We are comfortable enough together to discuss money, so we many times go dutch, he pays, or I pay. At this stage, a lot of it depends on what our parents will allow with the money they give us, or if we're able to use some crappy-school-wage money towards it. But, I know that if either of us were hurting for money, we would never even think about breaking up or bringing it up, and just take the check. I think that people need to reanalyze what they are looking for in a partner if they would do something so tasteless.
Thank you! You just inspired another blog post.
Guys, you know how your boss tries to manage your bonus expectations lower this time of year? You need to do the same thing with your woman's expectations of your potential. All year long.
C.R.E.A.M.
Aldo I think all of this applies only to marriage minded women. If a slut is just looking to hook up and have some fun the job (i.e. salary) is more of a talking point than a deal maker
Heh. My woman works in sales, and we live together. Aside from dates and whatnot, we split everything down the middle- occasionally I will treat her to stuff, but I never ever wanted her to expect anything from me. When we first started dating a few years ago, she made about 30k a year as a sales assistant. She was promoted to a real sales role shortly after, and last year she absolutely killed it and made somewhere around 50% more than me. I am perfectly happy with this- we now have a massive combined income. It might be one thing if I was making 40k and her salary was the one actually paying the rent, but I am more than comfortable with what I make, and if she can bring home that and then some... awesome.
Some guys want a woman that is passive, dumb, and that they can take care of while she bakes cookies, but I am not that guy. I have always wanted a woman that was smart and ambitious- I am always floored when I hear that smart women can't find men because they want them to be dumb. I can't stand bimbos- sure they may look hot now, but in 10 years they won't without a huge capital expenditure, and you are actually going to have to talk to her at some point.
My gf makes slightly more than me and pays for dinner many times. I thought having a penis was what defined being male and not picking up a check. Grow some balls people.
Be sure that a penis can't always do wonders in a relationship. There are certain expectations to feel secure and important in a relationship - can be expressed by how much you spend on your gf/wife and how much time you give them. If both the things are missing in a relationship then a penis can't help much.
You may have seen penises.... but have you seen ANT's penis?
To add to this, I think 'who picks up the check' depends on who wanted to go out to dinner/etc...sometimes. While I was in school I had a long term gf, in fact, someone I thought I was going to marry, however that didn't work out. At this point in time she was in her senior year of undergrad and first couple years of med school (she's a year younger than me because I spent 4 years in the Army), she had no student loan debt (full ride undergrad, 3.9 GPA bio chem major, hs valedictorian, 4.0+ GPA, etc, etc), her father was a physician, he paid for her place and paid for her trips, vacations, etc and gave her spending money. So she was way out of my league when it came to spending money. Initially it wasn't an issue because I was still in the Army when we met and I had money and basically saw her on the weekends, so for a few days at a time. When we saw each other it was a "special occasion" in my mind so we never cooked, we always ate out and went on trips, etc. That was fine, I enjoyed that stuff and just enjoyed spending any time I could with her. Unfortunately that changed once I got into school since I had little money, etc. Anyhow as the relationship went on my lifestyle changed in accordance to the amount of money I had, hers only went up. She was essentially taking out loans for med school but had her living expense covered by her father so she had a good amount of money every semester to spend on whatever. Of course, I didn't so that restricted what I could do with her. At this point we were practically living together and I would get home late from school or work and she would be home studying and she would always want to go out to eat. In my mind this is something you do occasionally, but for her it was literally lunch and dinner out everyday. At $15 and $30 a pop, that adds up...not to mention she loved going on vacation and she loved to visit her old college roommates in DC and NYC.
The point being, while I agree with ANT to an extent, there is something demeaning about having someone pay for you all the time because you can't afford to. Maybe that just has to do with how I was raised and I certainly don't mind paying every time, though it's nice if she offers, but every time can't be every night...especially on a very limited budget. My one complaint about my ex would be that she was unaware of the situation, or chose to ignore it. She would literally ask me if I wanted to go to Colorado for a ski trip over the Christmas break. I would explain that I couldn't because I didn't have the money. Then, a day later, she would ask if I wanted to go to NYC for NYE or something along those lines, lol. Seriously, what about not having money did she not understand? I know her heart was in a good place, but sometimes, as smart as she was, her mind wasn't.
I came from a very traditional household and it's important for me to marry someone that I feel like I am a provider for. The caveat to that is I only seem to be attracted to ambitious women, those that want to do something special and high achieving (is that proper grammar?)...so I put myself in this predicament. Honestly, I am not attracted to the girls I know that are nurses and school teachers...and that probably seems shallow, but intelligence is super important to me in my significant other and that creates a catch 22 of sorts, being that an intelligent person could achieve more and be a doctor instead of a nurse or a professor instead of a 2nd grade teacher.
Anyways, this is a very interesting topic and begs another important relationship question "What's more important, where you came from or where you're going?". Not to sound trite, but loves matters the most. When you truly care about someone nothing else matters, the flaws, the issues, the arguments are all minor. Too bad 'love' is so dependent on 'timing'.
Regards
yeah personally ive been dating my gf for about a year now and she has great ambitions for med school, working on patents of hers (biomed engineering 3.8 undergrad) but she isnt making any moves on it and its pissing me off and wearing on me and may be the breaking point despite everything else being perfect.
that being said... I tend to go for medical girls since they do well and generally are more caring and intelligent on average (plus i was orig a pharmacy major so i have the interest in biomedical stuff) and do well financially... i dont think i can marry an artist, social worker, MAYBE teacher dependent on if theyre a westchester teacher making 130k a year or what... but overall i want a femme-baller
women would be fucked if men only went for the their level or up status :>
+1
This sh*t just made my day! :)
I don't date period. It works wonders and my savings account is through the roof. Ferrari here I come.
Paying for a date is fine for a hookup, but for a longer term relationship, red flags start to appear. I live comfortably and so does my long term gf, but money and one's job especially in this economy (even if one has his own business) can be fleeting. Both of us separately experienced a few months of transition between jobs in the past two years and our relationship grew stronger. If a woman constanly expects almost every meal to be covered, then there are prostitutes that probably cost less money.
My gf is a nurse and i'm encouraging her to go for her nurse practicioners degree (probably not what it's called but i am very ignorant about the medical field).... If your secondary income is 6 figures and you don't want kids you're money. But even if she doesn't get it i don't think i care as long as she is working 40-50 hours a week and bringing home some type of income.
Girls are penny stocks man. Pump and dump.
Thank you for that from the bottom of my heart.
I've been in both situations and personally I think it comes down to the individuals involved.
I dated a doctor when I was in the Army who went from making ~45k as a fellow to 270k + profit sharing literally over night. Granted, she was in a crushing amount of debt, but that incremental 225k was "her money" and she had plans for all of it minus debt service. I think initially her expectations were that I would eclipse her at some point and up until then I had paid for basically everything, when I was actually around. The paradigm shift in money was pretty drastic however and had an immediate effect on how she felt about me. The reasons for the eventual break-up were deployment/distance related publicly, but she survived that when she was broke and privately I'm pretty sure it had to do with lifestyle (location, money). She was ready to ball hard after all that school, residency and fellowship and wasn't about to live in some crappy area near a fort. I really can't blame her because I would have probably behaved similarly had our positions been reversed.
I currently live with a girl who makes less. We split things about 70/30 but that disparity will only grow if we stay together. Secretly I think she wants to be a stay at home mom and work on "her own projects," and would be unhappy if I chose to do something that prevented that. I'm not saying that is representative of women in general but just one data point.
Many of the female executives at my company have stay at home husbands. In fact, ALL of female executives that I can think of do. They are making 1-5 million a year and in a lot of cases there spouses weren't pikers before "retiring." My current VP's (F500 VP, not to be confused with IBank VP) husband was a trader for MS until like 2005 and then quit to raise his kids. Maybe he blew up and got canned or maybe not, but seems like they have a pretty decent relationship with her as the breadwinner. From what she mentioned, he sits at home, drives a Volvo station wagon to soccer practice and manages "their" money. Five years ago I would never have wanted that to be my fate and would have had snide remarks for anyone willing to "settle" like that, but I think if I married a women who eventually became a lot more successful than me, I’d be ok with it. Might have something to do with growing up or realizing that there is plenty of luck involved in climbing the ladder. Personally I'd rather have two rolls of the dice, instead of one.
I despise women. I wish I was gay. They are all selfish gold diggers and there's a reason I only use girls for sex and rarely call back.
I am a college senior going into IB, and I can tell it matters quite a bit to my girlfriend. I think that women care more about money and security than many would care to admit. It doesn't bother me at all. Asking "Would she still go for you if you were a starving artist?" isn't a relevant question because I'm not. Being successful in your career is no different than being very fit, or very educated, or any other attractive feature - it usually requires extra work over the mean.
Relationships where the woman makes more than the man are going to become far more common. The following article is rather incendiary and draws some of the wrong conclusions, but has some interesting observations -
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/
As for me - Although I wouldn't mind dating a woman that makes far more than me (I would see it as access to a better lifestyle, more of my income going into my trading account and motivation to work harder), I cannot think of anything more unappealing than becoming a stay at home dad. But this probably has more to do with my personal drive than how I feel about relationship equality.
What guy wouldn't want to date a rich broad for a while?
HOWEVER
The bulk of our young men are wrapped up in fighting a war - when they come home, men's wages will rise. This happens in wartime.
I'm all for equality, but just because some CAN do something doesn't mean the WILL do something. Equal pay for equal work, yes. But, women, according to their own admission in numerous studies, generally don't WANT to work the long hours, spend time away from home, and compete like men do. I for one can't even stand the though of sitting home while my (hypothetical) wife works - and my girlfriend(s) :) can't deal with 80 hour workweeks.
and what's with this bullshit of the house majority leader crying like a bitch on TV all the time? aren't the republicans the 'manly' party? BOEHNER: shut the fuck up and get back to running a GLOBAL MILITARY / INDUSTRIAL EMPIRE.
My girlfriend is a grad student so she doesn't have a ton of cash, but she still insists on picking up the occasional coffee or dinner. I think that's reflective of more overriding qualities in her character.
It's not a dealbreaker either way to me-I've dated girls who were certainly in it for some free meals/drinks and I've dated girls who made more than me (mostly older finance/lawyer women).
I just want to date a guy that has a solid work ethic and knows how to manage his income, whatever it is. And one that doesn't tell me I threaten them. There are so many guys our there that prefer dumb and passive. I got dumped for speaking better english and being better at math than an ex bf. He admits he was an idiot now but he isn't the only one I ran into like that. Now I laugh but i have been on too many dates where the guy was shocked i was smart and would say that directly! I am frustrated that my father won't "approve" of me dating someone with limited income potential. I could care less about their income because I can do great for myself. It's not just a masculine trait to provide fiscally anymore. Personally I have gone for the guys that are kind, solid, and stable and are like bodyguards. That's what I want a man for at the end of the day. Personality ok too. Lol
Jesus Christ, if my GF answered my texts maybe she would get gifts and dinner.
Sounds like it's time to put a little Buddy Guy on her iPod:
Personally I am not too interested in a broke girl either. I have gone out with girls making no money; it gets old pretty quickly.
That said I think as a male I am more interested in power (a.k.a. money), status (money), respect (money, and not being seen as a whimp). Let's be honest if you are making 70K and your wife makes 200K, everyone will say that you are not independent, and is gold digger. Some woman seem to be ok with it, I am not sure a lot of guys would be. I would not.
After reading through a bunch of these comments, I think it would be safe to say (from a guy's pov) that dating someone that is more your equal is a lot more manageable, and that having a successful career/paycheck is def a + but not a decisive factor. It's nice to pick up the check for the first couple of dates, but what happens when you're "expected" to keep picking them up... I think that's not cool at all. It's a nice gesture, after you've been dating for a few months to start splitting things evenly or as you move forward, have the gf pick up the whole tab/buy you round etc. It shows that she cares about you just as much to consider the strain on your finances, that's how you know a girl is a keeper: she's considerate and tries to understand where you're coming from. If you're going through a tough spot financially, like someone posted up above dating the med chick, I would expect the gf to be understanding and do stuff within each others' means, if not, then it's prob best that the couple part ways bc it's obvious that going on expensive trips to colorado and eating out every night is more important than spending time (in any fashion) with your partner. Just my two cents. Great discussion topic though
I think it's simple. Equal rights, equal responsibilities.
Women fought for equal rights, they can take out the trash too.
btw the nipples on the chick in the pic look crazy big
That might even be a guy. Notice the $20's are covering up the Adam's apple?
For most men, the earning capacity is a function of intelligence and thus a direct measure of the man. The alpha males that stay at home found a way to make money without working themselves to death (earning comparably to their high-achiever wives) and are very different from some beta who stays at home because he is simply incapable of matching his lady's paycheck.
Now why would a woman ever chose a beta? Probably because she is ugly/fat and can't do better.
To the poster who said: "Not willing to date a teacher or social worker" What a pathetic douche. I hope it was a joke because if not, I hate people like you.
I dispute the entire notion that women are attracted to money more then other things. When I first got out of college I totally looked like the "preppy banker" and I had a job in finance at a big-name firm that was good enough to sound lucrative (even though it wasnt) and I did OK with girls but nothing special. Hit or miss with alot more misses. Now that my career is more established and I can dress/look basically however I want I have much longer hair, only shave about once a week, and dress in a way that does not say "money" at all (when i ask women to guess what I do for a living most say "artist" or "musician")....and my success with women is at a much different level then it was back then. I find that most girls are really bored by finance jobs even if they are high paying...nowadays if I have to tell a girl what I do I just say something like "im a finance geek" or something like that and move on to another topic. I think women are attracted to fun and excitement much more then money. Most really super-attractive girls in NYC will be gone in under 30 seconds if you start talking about how much money you make.
...and what's more exciting then praying your husband sells a painting or two so you can feed your babies this week?!?
It's also worth considering a couple things. Dressing the way you did vs. the way you do might imply something to the girl(s). Being confident goes a long way and if girls think you are trying to impress them with your money, but you are really a douche, don't expect too much more attention from them then what it takes to garner a few drinks from you at the club. I'm not saying your a douche, but it's possible given your relative sucess and youth combined that you came across this way...so that could be a factor. Also realize a year can make a huge difference in a woman's life, so does location (kinda). Assuming the more ambitions people flock to larger cities, the girls you typically meet there are going to be far less inclined to settle down and would much rather hook up for the night. Girls I know from back home are 25-27 and they freak out because all of the guys/girls back home are settling down into longer term relationships, getting engaged, married and many are having kids. When you are just one of a few in that setting, as a girl you will be much more eager to find a decent guy and skip a few steps. Girls I've meet in larger cities tend to be even older than the 25-27 age bracket and rather content with just hooking up for the time being. Of course they want to settle down if they found the perfect man, but for now they will stick with hooking up with the decent guys and typically stay more focused on their career.
With that said, they still have that internal clock that tries to convince them everyday to get married. If the timing is right you could find yourself in a position, given your age and financial status, to be a very good target. Even if they don't intend to walk the aisle anytime in the near future, they will slowly start to find someone worth being with, even if it's subconsciously.
Regards
I don't know about anyone else on this board, but the only reason I bother working, going to the gym, dressing nicely, or just getting up in the morning is for pussy.
I'm sitting at the bar some years ago and its still pretty early. Next to me the two bored waitresses chatter. One's hot, one's not. The Hot One rambles on loudly and obnoxiously about her boyfriend who she so very much adores. He's attending a top MBA program and already has a $150K gig lined up. He's handsome, he's kind, he's amazing in bed, she'll do anything for him, he's the apple of her eye...yakkedy fucking yack.
The next morning when I left her place, I lifted $60 of her dresser. I never spoke to her again until about six months later when I went back to the spot. Rinse, repeat. She didn't leave any cash lying around the second time, however.
Remember that story the next time you feel like pedestaling a bottle of beer that will turn into yeast juice in 12-16 months.
+1 SB for getting back what you spent and more, lol.
Regards
Wish I had an SB to give for this. Haha.
You are cold SOB! lol, Way to bring it home with the life lesson
All the beta males on here please read and re-read.
I never pay for anything. I have all the power. I don't cuddle after sex. I occasionally beat her to keep things dramatic. I have a 17 year old mistress.
Virtually everyone in this thread is a sucker, trying to analyse relationships in a logical/rational manner. Don't ever communicate with a womans brain, communicate with her pussy - and fuck her mind.
sorry midas not cool bro not cool.
You guys are giving girls way to much credit for being rational and analytical about who they hook up with. At the moment when it is decided whether or not she wants you she is full of emotion and isnt doing a cost/benefit analysis about whether you can provide for her children. Once you have hooked up with her, she will continue to do so if you are good in bed almost without exception. This idea that women are constantly focused on balancing the finances of some future family has no basis in reality in my experience....and I have a few years on most of you guys.
That said, I agree that if you are in a relationship that is focused on the future and all you talk about is your job, bills, kids, etc then if you become poor it will change the way your girlfriend views you. but that is only because YOU based your whole image around money and being a provider...I know several guys who are flat broke and regularly have attractive women who want to have serious relationships with them. I have one friend in particular who when we are out if a girl mentions money he'll laugh and say "yeah if you want money talk to him (pointing to me), I am basically broke!" and girls love it because he has a fun vibe and you can tell that he isnt uncomfortable with himself.
^^Agree with you to a point.
That said I think a young banker with the whole getup vs. the dude with long hair, unshaven just relaxed. Shows who actually has $$$ or cares to have $$$. The banker with the getup ain't exactly dressing/presenting themselves like that for fun or by choice. They are doing because its connected to their profession and potential wealth.
The other dude is saying, I am fine being how I am because I know either way I will make $$$ or do well for myself. It is that same I don't give a shit attitude that the artist/writer uses. Ethan Hawke in reality bites. That wins girls over.
Haven't you guys studied any marketing? The "young banker" and the "dude with long hair" are competing in different markets, offering a different product/service, catering to a different niche, etc. The "dude" will probably slay way more indie chicks, hipster chicks, artists, pot heads, etc. While the banker will do much better with models, professional cuties, MILFs, etc.
Find me an actual "young banker" with an actual model and I'll buy you a whole night of drinks on me. To be more specific, I'll actually just call the bar with my credit card # because i dont want to hang out with someone who thinks that in reality models regularly hang out with bankers. There is a very small subset of women in new york who bankers do well with and they are mostly centered in a few lame bars on the upper east side...these girls went to schools like Lehigh and Lafayette, they are slightly overweight but cute, and they are the only women in the city who actually know or care what an investment banking analyst is. Outside of that small world (the capital of this World is Dorian's on 82nd and 2nd) no girl in New York wants to hang out with a banker. The word "banker" is a synonym for "boring" for 99% of women.
Going off some of the comments here I would venture to guess that a majority of the comments come from guys who are on their first, second or third sexual partner. The shit I am hearing is not only fucking stupid...pathetic...lame...etc...it is just embarrassing for you.
1) the notion that you need something other than a pulse to get pussy is comical, what the fuck to do you idiots think this world revolved around for 49,500 years before Shylock came along?
2) Bondarb gets love because from reading his post i can tell he has had sex with more than one woman in the last 12 months...if you do not fall into this category you need to either immediately:
a) commit fucking suicide b) get laid
There are no alternatives, monkeys.
3) Fuck what women say... they lie it is in their blood, their guts and their brains. They lie without even knowing they lie. If you are doing anything with a woman and counting on her "honesty", her "reason", her "logic".... you will be the one getting fucked.
4) Pussy is a disposable item. Every broad...no matter how perfect is replaced by a newer model every 5 years.
5) YES!!!! Women are cell phones.
6) STOP pedestaling the pussy. It is just pussy. Like an empty milk crate. That is its value. Disposable.
7) If you are less than 40 years of age at this point and you are committing to any woman who does not absolutely worship the ground you walk on, you are the sucker at the table.
8) Use your balls, not your brain.
9) Sing opera before quoting Oprah.
10) As a continuation of #1....$$$ is something women take from LAMES...if you believe that $ has anything to do with getting ass you are out of your mind and have no clue about the way the world works. Put away your pocket protectors and travel the world. Finer women than you can ever see in NYC, LA, MIA, etc will lick your feet clean...and you fools are mortgaging your lives...
on a fucking beer bottle
Let me guess... Love of your life fucked your best friend in your bed while you were out buying the ring to propose her with?
wow, wonder what you think of your mom.
I bow to you MMM
I second the motion.
Regards
What bondarb is getting at is that money and success are more for yourself than for women. Doing something that he loves every day and getting rewarded for it has imbued him with a swagger that women find attractive. But for people who chase money out of insecurity, they will just be pouring something into a hole that can never be filled.
Women inwardly laugh at rich dudes who have no game. A lady friend of mine lives in LA and rolls with a crew of hot girls who find these rich guys who pay for everything (weekends in vegas, resorts, etc). They use them for a bit and then move on to the next, all while keeping his balls blue. They go home from these vacations and hook up with poor guys.
just like the guy at the bar who buys a girl a drink, thinking he is going to see her again it isn't going to happen, cheeks are cheeks are cheeks nothing else but cheeks. If you have to show green back to get them you don't deserve them.
cheeks=pussy..if your clueless
As much I enjoy NSFW about silver, gold, eur collapsing.
jesus this should have been a NSFW episode not a blog entry. I want to see MMM on video when hes tearing it down like he did in that last post.
Perhaps it's just a product of the family I was raised in (my dad had/made money, my mom was a homemaker and good looking), but I just feel that the whole rich guy (high IQ) and hot girl (high EQ) is the natural order of things (at least at the top). It provides a good balance of parents for your Children too... mom can help you to be well-mannered and cool in school, dad doesn't give a &^@! as long as you get straight A's and make varsity. They can do good cop bad cop when you get in trouble...
p.s. I know i'm politically incorrect...
I plan to make dough in finance and I always offer to go half with any guy I meet (drinks/ dinner). For the simple reason that I dont' feel like I owe them something. If they choose to pay all that’s their prerogative, not mine.
Being a chimpette and in a long term relationship, I find it's not about money, it's about a man acting like a man. 'providing' is an ambiguous term. Most women just want to be treated like a lady, I'd take a gentlemen that opens my door, compliments me, surprises me with something thoughtful sporadically (doesn't have to be pricey) and cooks every once and a while over some jerk that's making more than me.
This seemed relevant...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/40704864/
Ughhh....
Did you guys see this?
Eddie,
The chick on the right should be familiar with finding Wall Street's billionaires. She used to be linked to George Soros. Talk about digging for gold.. http://dealbreaker.com/2007/11/george-soros-trading-up-or-at-least-younger/
How about us guys being taken out to dinner and being taken care of ?
Can I have my 3 minutes back?
double post
Many of you are going to end up 60 years old and fucking alone wishing you weren't such a d-bag during your 20's & 30's (see: Midas).
Why your salary matters to her? Hmm. I guess I'll write an article for the women entitled, "Why your cellulite matters to him".
As the now famous Craigslist ad so beautifully described, women are a depreciating asset while a man's earning ability is an appreciating commodity. All men just need to keep that in mind when a woman who will begin to develop cellulite around the age of 25 can be seen taking interest in you for anything else other than your personality and character (being self sufficient can fall under the category of character). If your earning ability (not your independence or self sufficiency) is on her top 10 ten short-list then run--run until you can't run anymore.
My wife is very successful and worked during the years when I was in business school. For a period of about four to five years she made more than me. At the current point in time I am making much more than she does, and I much prefer this way. She is still working with an intense media type job, which I hate because my hours are so bad.
When i am free, she is often not free - for me it would be nice to,have somebody I could lean on to help me with the small things I never have time to during the week. Or she will bug me incessantly with questions about her business that frankly I just don't want to deal with after working 100 hours the prior week.
I would ultimately prefer to 100% take care of her but we are making great money, she has a super cool job she loves, and she is a type A who would go crazy sitting at home all day. She is a super cheapskate and we save a bunch of money, which is great for both of us long term. We try to leave egos at the door. She was the bread winner in the past. Now that role has shifted to me. For all I know, I will be fired next month.
But yeah I know her girlfriends do chat about what their guys do for work. They definitely keep tabs and the single ones are always asking if I know any good guys at work.
Staying on topic: call me 1950's but I will always date a girl who makes less than me. It's a power thing, and I like calling the shots in a relationship. Period.
Agreed.
I'd like to think questions about money would play second fiddle to whether you enjoy your time together, but hey, I must be pretty naive.
To the guys who think almost all women are only after money: Did you ever consider that maybe you are so boring that money is all you have to offer someone?
The thought that almost all women are gold diggers just does not line up with what I have seen in life.
Dating a girl with NO money is also annoying as they expect you to pay for everything and expect you to bring them "up" to your lifestyle
Much prefer to date someone in the same income bucket, I would pay for dinners but would expect "fair" contributions on nice trips and such
Interesting to watch how many successful women on wall street want to date someone who makes at least as much money as they do which makes it tough...
I love this topic...
Capitalism baby...
Left unchecked, it commoditises all human interactions and relationships...
All women care a ton about money (so do all men). I prefer honest people. Not people who have no regard for being polite and reserved (i.e. they ask you how much money you make in the first two weeks you know them), but a girl who is wiling to tell you that "security" is part of what they're looking for and who doesn't try to hide loving nice things (because they all love them).
Personally, I like taking care of the girl financially to some degree. Makes me feel better about spending large sums on myself (i.e. there is some meaning to making money, to make those you love happy/provided for... and so you don't have to feel bad about owning 20k were of ties).... also makes me never feel guilty when making the final decision on which apartment to rent, which car to buy, which, etc, etc, because at the end of the day, I'm paying for it.
I'm firmly in the "I hope my wife has money" category, both her own and family money.
"But in today's world of empowered females..." LOL. I just re-set my time machine to 1950. TIL: WSO hates women.
I have to disagree with the notion that women care a lot about a man’s salary. I think a woman cares about salary only in the sense that the man actually has a stable, steady salary. But many of my female friends are married or are dating men who make less money than they do. Myself personally, I don’t care how much money a guy makes, it’s usually the guy who feels competitive about this.
A better question is why are men obsessed with gold diggers? They're not the majority of women. And if you're smart, well-educated, and successful you'd be looking for someone like yourself. Smart, well-educated, successful women are not gold diggers. Only broke models that wait for guys to buy them bottles.
Just go for a high end escort service and save yourself the BS already, god some of you are walking-sitcom-Ted Mosby- cliches.
I just flash them dimes and we went back to my hotel room.
FYI Eddie that gold digger in the picture is cheap and can be bought off with a sprinkling of 20s.
wow, what a bunch of fUcking dorks on here.
Yup. What amazes me is that these are people with jobs. I look around my office and wonder if some of the crap on here is posted by the weirdo in the cube next to me.
I'll be honest and say Midas MMM's comments are 100% true, too many times I've seen this happen, my buddy routinely sleeps with girls that have bfs and he's pretty broke but he has swagger for days.
Me and him have a routine when we go looking for girls, we pretend to be different people and flat out lie and it's funny they just eat it up. You name it I've been it
Loyalty is rare in my opinion it can't be bought, found, or jerry rigged and comes only once in a blue moon
More than anything, what my buddy taught me was how easy it is to manipulate people especially women, with a quick joke, a smile sprinkled with some charm you can get her to do whatever you want.
It was seeing how easily my buddy can get women to cheat and how quickly I picked this skill and put it to some use.
That's when I kind of lost lots of respect for women, when I realized they aren't as logical as men and probably never will be as a gender.
At first I was upset, had my image of women shattered, now it's just the way things are, and like my buddy says its in the nature of the beast
I don't work in the finance industry, although I dated one guy in the finance industry before. For me is not always about the money, I have a job and so far I am living on my own, I'm looking for a man who would occasional buy me flowers, spend Christmas together and maybe spend some time together whenever he's available. Money is not everything, but certainly it matters too. My ex couldn't land his dream job here in New York City, and he always struggle with rent, loans, bills, therefore he took off and rather get a banker job in Asia and give up everything he's been working hard for, of course included me.
So I don't think all girls are materialistic, perhaps they just want someone with stable income to support their back just in case if one day they fall hard, they still have someone's there to take care of them. Just that simple :) and of course, I'm one of them. Single, still looking for love in the city
With women.. from my experience.. if they try to contrive value out of you based on your job/income that means you have nothing that is interesting but are good looking/clean-cut enough to put your name next to that check box.
When I first came to NYC I was pretty involved in the whole night life scene (predominantly asian night life, never worked it, though) and though I wasn't making much money at the time I personally knew a lot of club promoters/managers/owners of some of the most visited spots; they'd always invite me out, and let me mingle/drink for free, and I got to observe a lot of interesting things..
A lot of wealthy finance individuals would come to these clubs, offer me shots, and introduce me to all of their friends yet at the end of the night when I had a girl clinging to my arm to go home with they were scrambling to find women to take to their next destination, usually by "selling" it - come to my "penthouse", etc. I remember discussing with a friend back home who makes a very mediocre income the price-to-pussy ratio of some of these guys I had met in NYC and after multiple outings with them I'd venture to say it was in the thousands. Don't get me wrong, there are finance guys out there who have "game" and can sell themselves without talking about their job but I think a quote I read somewhere on this site sums up the majority of finance guys.
Chick: "I just met this guy, he's an Investment Banker!" Me: "How do you know?" Chick: "He told me in the first 5 minutes"
So, moral of the story is this.. if you talk about your job, or anything other than yourself as an individual when trying to score women you are essentially setting yourself up to attract a woman that is looking for these "gold-digger" qualities, or if they aren't, you'll awaken these tendencies. Most women will exploit the shit out of it, until they find a guy who can provide all the aforementioned while being interesting enough in other aspects. Don't use your job as a selling point, or your income.. if you make money.. after a few outings they will know
Also, I'd like to echo previous consensus on how wrong it is to analyze women from a rational perspective. Remember, when women tell you about their problems, issues, etc. they just want to hear what they feel in a deeper voice.. not how you'd go about fixing it.
This is for hooking up only.. I know for a fact that once you get pretty deep into dating a girl.. the topic of income WILL come up, but I still stand my ground in that it's more how you communicate it, rather than what you actually make. If you use your income as a factor that contributes to your confidence then yes, women will see your lack of income as a deficiency.. if you're comfortable with how much you make, live within your means, and set realistic expectations on your spending.. Pretty certain most women (even the high earners) won't give a shit - at least in my experience.
so much for equality heh men still have to pay ? Doesn't bother me her interest in my salary but she better be worth it hah
Yes, it would piss me off if a broad is asking about my salary at any point. When talking about what you do, keep it vague, like, "I work at a bank." That can mean anything from near minimum wage teller to something good.
You could of course say something like "I'm a truck driver" and test to see how she reacts, but ideally it's best not to lie to people you'll see again or have some sort of interaction with going forward. Of course a lot of people these days give out a ton of information about themselves online and stuff can be easily dug up with a basic Google search.
I can't think of a single time that income was a major consideration in dating. Girls I've dated have also always been willing to pick up the tab when asked. I think that part of this is because I prioritize kindness and sense of humor along with looks when choosing who I want to date. As a guy, having a high income is probably like a girl having a really nice butt. I want to date an interesting and well-rounded person, not a butt, and likewise, I believe that girls generally do not want to date a wallet!
If it is an obsession and talked about frequently it is a turn off. However, there is nothing wrong with a woman wanting to feel financially secure especially if children are in/ going to be the picture. I find that major cities women ask this question and the implication is exactly what you stated, but elsewhere I believe that it is simply an easy question when first meeting someone.
[quote="Edmundo Braverman"]
expect it:
The irony here is delicious. Absolutely the type of girl I'd avoid.
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